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Unread 27 Mar 2009, 18:28   #51
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Re: R31 shipstats

Screwing around with the pod classes AGAIN is totally unnecessary.

Also, what MORPH3US and Light said.
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Unread 27 Mar 2009, 20:47   #52
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Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post

That a joke? Whats the point in having races if you're going to slowly but surely give every race a Steal Ship, EMP ship, Normal ship, and Cloak Ship.

Why have terran got a steal ship? whats the reason for it? I dont think there is a reason other than 'i like teh steal ships'.

Wasnt it? Terran = Normal, Cath = EMP, Xan = CLOAK, Zik = STEAL and ETD = Mixture?
Made any stats light?
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Unread 27 Mar 2009, 21:28   #53
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Re: R31 shipstats

i kinda thought that cathaar having a steal ship this round added a lot to the race in terms of staying power. usually the only cathaar with good ranks are top players and def sinks, with the steal ships it gave everyone the chance to get 'lucky' and not be bashed the entire round since their fleet was 100% emp.
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Unread 27 Mar 2009, 21:46   #54
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Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
That a joke? Whats the point in having races if you're going to slowly but surely give every race a Steal Ship, EMP ship, Normal ship, and Cloak Ship.
Is that a joke? This set has 1 ship out of its 'traditional' place, although that's arguable. In round 14, every race had a steal ship and it was one of the most balanced and interesting sets we've seen. (the t100 was split 18/24/29/27. Pretty good.).

It's the same as this round, except the stealer is terran rather than cath.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light
Why have terran got a steal ship? whats the reason for it? I dont think there is a reason other than 'i like teh steal ships'.
The races maintain their identity, and the terran CR/BS fleet is based on 14's terran CR/BS fleet (which had wyvern as low init killer and syren as a stealer) because I thought that was an interesting dynamic.

Is there any good reason as to why ziks and etds should be the only races with steal ships? Or cath/etds the only races with EMP ships? As far as I can tell, the only reason is 'because that's how it's done'. So long as races maintain their identity and a unique feel then I don't see a problem.

Quote:
personally i think there is too many fi/co pods around, terran and xan with co pods, cathaar with fi pods and zik with 2 co class ships to niceley flak any capped fi or co pod
even etd got the option to steal fi/co pods (they dont maintain very good flak, but in a teamup that doesnt really matter)
Again, is this much of an issue? There have been 3 particularly good statsets I remember since multitargeting was reintroduced. 25, 27 & 30. 30 and (I think) 25 both had 3 FI/CO podclasses.
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Unread 27 Mar 2009, 22:51   #55
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Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate View Post
Again, is this much of an issue? There have been 3 particularly good statsets I remember since multitargeting was reintroduced. 25, 27 & 30. 30 and (I think) 25 both had 3 FI/CO podclasses.
i think it is yes, cant say anything about r25 as i never saw those stats, but r30 would have been a fi/co dominated round, if it wasnt for the weakness of xan fi against harpy. i mean fi/co is allready hard to stop, and if it wasnt for outflaking the emp, and 1) blocking the xan fi and 2) harpy killing the xan fi, big teamups would be even harder to stop then they are allready
2 races with emp co´s is too much if you ask me and if i was to make a set of stats, i would reduce it to 1 emp fi/co ship, and one race with fi and one race with co pods

but thats me
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Unread 28 Mar 2009, 03:00   #56
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Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
That a joke? Whats the point in having races if you're going to slowly but surely give every race a Steal Ship, EMP ship, Normal ship, and Cloak Ship.

Why have terran got a steal ship? whats the reason for it? I dont think there is a reason other than 'i like teh steal ships'.

Wasnt it? Terran = Normal, Cath = EMP, Xan = CLOAK, Zik = STEAL and ETD = Mixture?

I Think that your totaly correct, we cant go and change it all so that everyone has the same attributes otherwise what is the point of races, why dont we just go back to the begining rounds where we only had one race then if we are going to give everyone the attributes of other races
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Unread 28 Mar 2009, 06:07   #57
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Re: R31 shipstats

it isn't just that, and it seems we've had this debate the last few rounds.

Terran is high armour with moderate/low damage.
Cathaar is known for its high efficiency EMP ships.
Xan is high damage with moderate/low armour.
Zik has steal ships accompanied by somewhat unique kill ships.
ETD has been the generic race.

this does not mean that other races can not have other ships of this type. some examples: a terran ship that steals while holding to tradition, would have high armour and low firepower. Etd emp ships are usually not as efficient as Cathaar emp ships.
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Unread 28 Mar 2009, 09:45   #58
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Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
2 races with emp co´s is too much if you ask me and if i was to make a set of stats, i would reduce it to 1 emp fi/co ship, and one race with fi and one race with co pods

but thats me
That's what I put on offer with my set

Etds this round are balanced out a bit by being horribly vulnerable to ingal def though. If we played again we'd see more pillagers from the outset I think, now that people have realised how great they are.
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Unread 28 Mar 2009, 15:27   #59
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Re: R31 shipstats

to show i am not just moaning

here is a set that i developed
far from final most likely, still i want to hear some opinions
and show what i meant in the earlier posts of mine

http://pastebin.com/f42e1cc41

kept the amount of pods
kept the amount of ships
removed stealer for other races then zik/etd
removed 3rd targets alltogether
removed a lot of 2nd targets also (if its about to balance this set, i´d try with removing more 2nd targets, and force every race to build more ships to cover against everything)
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Unread 28 Mar 2009, 15:32   #60
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Re: R31 shipstats

Dont like ZIK having both their pods in one 'megaclass' at all.
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Unread 28 Mar 2009, 15:39   #61
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Dont like ZIK having both their pods in one 'megaclass' at all.
yeah, zik is pretty weak, with their initial setup, however, there is 1) alot of BS/CR fleets to teamup with and 2) ziks will cap pods soon enough imo

understand you point though
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Unread 28 Mar 2009, 20:24   #62
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Re: R31 shipstats

given i like to concentrate my fleet i absolutely despise these stats. Alot of the single targeting just leads to weird results, wtf would anyone use zik's cr pods when their cr fleet hits a grand total of 2 ships, or the etd Cr the same !?! there is no point in having loads of pod classes if they cant be used.
There was uproar at etd init 1 widow outdoing the cats (r29), now u have ALL etd emp better than cats.
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Unread 28 Mar 2009, 20:39   #63
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Re: R31 shipstats

I think just tweaking the current stats will be a good idea.

Some things i personally would change:

-Xan-Fi just play the EMP-soak in FI/CO teamups.
=> Change Xan-Fi to Co, or Cath-Co or Etd-Co to Fi
OR (which is what i prefer) Change Beetle/Defender targeting to Co first.

-Harpy is too good vs Terran, so maybe give Phantom Init 4? I cant really judge the effects on Ter-defence, but from what i have seen their defence is strong as is their offence, so that might not be too hard.

-Etd has very good stats, maybe reduce the efficiency a bit
This can be seen as there are twice as much Etd in Top 500 then there should be. There are lots of other reasons, but you cant deny that the stats favor them a bit.

========================================

Except these two things i really like the stats, but there is one major thing i would suggest:

Change EMP from working with guns and emp-resistance, but turn it into guns with damage, penetrating armor too.
Now you could argue "yeah its made to give them more efficiency on t2 and t3 blabla", but as seen ingame, there is t2 and t3 damage appearing on the production screen, so we could just increase their t2 and t3 efficiency a bit

This would reduce complexity alot, and also make battles more comprehensible.
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Unread 28 Mar 2009, 20:39   #64
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Re: R31 shipstats

I haven't particularly liked these stats either, I already vented frustration at xan having BS. It's just not meant to be..

I'd like to go back to two pod classes.

If we did keep this sort of current setup, ETD is overpowered, and although I've enjoyed using them - so are harpies :P
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Unread 28 Mar 2009, 22:16   #65
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Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
given i like to concentrate my fleet i absolutely despise these stats.
thats why i made em this way, to not be able to concentrate your fleet on like 3 or 4 kinds of ships
as i think that will add some challenge to the game, and widers the range of diffrent fleet-setups you can find.
we could just have 2 pods and 6 ships each race then, and watch the same boring au´s if we scan any race, i dont like that tbh
you actually dont need to calc, its one look and you know you can do it or not, with my setup, you for sure would need a second look
(i am no friend of simplyfiying things too much, rather the other way round)


Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
Alot of the single targeting just leads to weird results, wtf would anyone use zik's cr pods when their cr fleet hits a grand total of 2 ships, or the etd Cr the same !?! there is no point in having loads of pod classes if they cant be used.
both races are able to steal cr and with some luck there is some cr to be added to a initially rather useless fleet, apart from that both mentioned races have a nice BS fleet, etd even a very nice one
your right about zik though, i made zik stats pretty crap, but not by accident, however if they steal fi/co pods or some etd bs or cathaar cr things will look much better

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
There was uproar at etd init 1 widow outdoing the cats (r29), now u have ALL etd emp better than cats.
yeah the eitraides-engineers not just stole the emp technology, they improved it, comined with some Zikonian Technology they also stole
i done it intenionally, to make up for etd not having a fast anti fi/co ship

however i just wanted to feel the complains for once, and i am pretty confident this set wont be used, specially as there is quite some "useless" ships in it. But no one is forcing you to build those.
so thx for reading, i just wanted to try to work something out myself and show i am not just complaining
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Unread 29 Mar 2009, 04:39   #66
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Re: R31 shipstats

stats don't need to be changed much
i would like to see the steal ships removed from the cats
and maybe give the fri/de fleets a bit more power
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Unread 29 Mar 2009, 04:50   #67
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Re: R31 shipstats

with the exception of cathaar, the strength of the fr/de fleets was defensive this round. they were exceptionally hard to hit, but it wasn't really viable to attack with them.
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Unread 29 Mar 2009, 06:28   #68
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Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeyi View Post
I haven't particularly liked these stats either, I already vented frustration at xan having BS. It's just not meant to be..
I'm quite the Xan purist myself, but I found the BS fleet this round to be very effective...especially in tandem with Etd Bs. As long as they have a decent Fi fleet/Fi pod though, I'm fine.

Quote:
I'd like to go back to two pod classes.
I thought having more than two opened up a lot of different strategies for early/mid/late game, rather than being forced to go one way or another, then sort of ****ed late game when you needed (or were forced to due to how the round unfolded) to switch.

Quote:
If we did keep this sort of current setup, ETD is overpowered, and although I've enjoyed using them - so are harpies :P
Lots of Etd Co flying around, certainly...not sure the Harpy is "overpowered", but it's initiative is ridiculous. Damn JBG for giving in to the pre-round whining about Xan being "too good"
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Unread 29 Mar 2009, 14:22   #69
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Re: R31 shipstats

Yeah just lower the init, I suppose overpowered was the wrong word.
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Unread 30 Mar 2009, 20:34   #70
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Re: R31 shipstats

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I suppose overpowered was the wrong word.
Yes, yes it was the wrong word.
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Unread 31 Mar 2009, 11:20   #71
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Re: R31 shipstats

Is the set Gate proposed a realistic set for next rnd, as such that we should review it?
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Unread 31 Mar 2009, 14:41   #72
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Is the set Gate proposed a realistic set for next rnd, as such that we should review it?
It's a potential set. If they prove very unpopular, then we'll just use this round's set with a few changes.

I think it would probably be nicer to have a new set for r31 and use the r30 set in r32. For variety if nothing else.
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Unread 31 Mar 2009, 14:57   #73
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Re: R31 shipstats

I'm definitely in favour of changes. 10 weeks with the same stat set is long enough for me.
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Unread 31 Mar 2009, 15:16   #74
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Re: R31 shipstats

Well your set of stats imo like look a good place to start from Gate, if a new set is to be made.

How is the interceptor any different from the harpy this round though, except that i assume it will have lower armour.
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Unread 31 Mar 2009, 16:39   #75
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Well your set of stats imo like look a good place to start from Gate, if a new set is to be made.

How is the interceptor any different from the harpy this round though, except that i assume it will have lower armour.
The fact that it hits Xans as t2 and that Ziks don't get +20% salvage will make it a lot harder to break even on salvage (though most Ziks will be Feud).
And there will be more Banshees than there were Phantoms this round, so Interceptors will most likely always all die.
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Unread 31 Mar 2009, 16:46   #76
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Re: R31 shipstats

I assume that you mean etd and not zik but yes that does make it a different ship to the harpy this round.
But dont you think that xans will have to send along phantoms making it T1 versus those?
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Unread 31 Mar 2009, 17:48   #77
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Re: R31 shipstats

Here's a second draft.

A few things that need to be fixed:
1) strength of FI/CO (with 3 races having them...
2) etd FR sucks
3) zik FI/CO need fixing
4) cath killships need fixing

In the next draft I was gonna add a third terran CO that shoots FI/FR (Return of teh harpeh!11), and make the valkyrie shoot after the arrowhead. And to rearrange the zik FI/CO back into a FI/CO and an FR/DE killer (ED: STEALER, not killer).
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Unread 31 Mar 2009, 17:51   #78
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Re: R31 shipstats

What, both zik co kill and not steal?
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Unread 31 Mar 2009, 19:21   #79
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Re: R31 shipstats

think you need more kill ships with high inits that have to die before they fight back Gate, there aren't enough in those stats yet.
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Unread 31 Mar 2009, 19:34   #80
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Re: R31 shipstats

hmm don't like it when other races beside zik and etd get steal ships

those pillager look nice, don't know if i'll like the t1 of cutlass and corsair being switched
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Unread 31 Mar 2009, 20:07   #81
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Re: R31 shipstats

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What, both zik co kill and not steal?
They steal :S
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Unread 31 Mar 2009, 20:27   #82
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Re: R31 shipstats

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In the next draft I was gonna rearrange the zik FI/CO back into a FI/CO and an FR/DE killer.
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Unread 31 Mar 2009, 20:41   #83
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Re: R31 shipstats

Oh, I meant stealer, thanks for the correction.
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Unread 1 Apr 2009, 00:54   #84
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Re: R31 shipstats

I Think 3 cloak and 3 emp is too much for Etd, they should have 2 steal, 2 cloak, 2 emp and the rest normal. I dont see the point of Etd if they have a full cloaked attack fleet. They should mix, emp/steal, cloak/normal in their attack fleets.
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Unread 1 Apr 2009, 10:19   #85
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Re: R31 shipstats

I guess if you dont see the point of etd having several cloak and several steal u dont see a point in etd?
having it as a total hybrid with 1 or 2 cloak or steal is just weird, they are reduced to total inefficacy, r29 etds hardly stole anything with their pillager, making it pretty useless to steal anything, no point having 1 or 2k odds and sods.
Similarly unless u have a fully cloaked fleet the usefulness of the cloak is radically reduced, as essentially if u send a defence as a 0 fake while ur other un-cloaked bs are out attacking the fake becomes so obvious.
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Unread 1 Apr 2009, 10:41   #86
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Re: R31 shipstats

someone, not necessarily gate answer why fr/de needs to be so bad at shooting up, I realise that this is mostly because of the extra tick to gain defence... but that does not seem to mean that you make fi/co fleets bad against attacking fr/de.
The thief (call it a bucc fs, dont confuse us!!) has an A/C of 500 and D/C 452, all well and good, fires simultaneously with marauder and after everything else. The destroyer is also a perfectly good ship, fires before the marauder, simultaneously with fireblade and after the wraith, has an A/C 578 and D/C 378 moreover its useful against xan and zik fr fleets. The Chimera and bomber on the other hand sux; fire after all cr/bs except Marauder, the Chim has A/C 600 and D/C 320, the bomber A/C 364 and D/C 485. What is worse is that while the terran can always go 100% fr so has flack he still gets slaughtered by something from each level - the pillager and destroyer on fr/de and phantom/rev with fi/co. The xans are similar but with even less reply against the destroyer and pillager, they dont even shoot against the cerberus and the broker... explain to me how anyone uses xan fr plz (fakes ftw eh?... heh, who can U fake on but cat)? and how it is fair to have some ships that do the same thing so much better than others?

*left out emp as its silly to be discussing when talking about inits but if you want to talk about them consider that there are now 2 cr/bs fleets with emp that will be firing down on the fr that is supposed to combat cr/bs and that unlike this round the fireblade is good at firing at fr/de.

btw do U each round try to make us think its different by having different names for ships that do the same thing?
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Unread 1 Apr 2009, 22:05   #87
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Re: R31 shipstats

i am not gonna say anything, before isil is going to shoot me

i just know which race i will play
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Unread 1 Apr 2009, 22:17   #88
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Re: R31 shipstats

A lot of people are assuming that all players will team up to make raids / defend though. Personally I think that deliberately making a race weak - as has been suggested with some of the Zik stat sets because they might team up, or they might 'get lucky' when stealing ships will put off a lot of players.

I joined this round very late, and have been growing slowly and surely. However as an Etd, I have only managed one successful landing as a solo player. None of my mates play here, and the gal I am in have ignored repeated requests from me to team up on a few raids. Today, while I was offline, I had 4 different waves of incomming, the largest of which had 70k ships. Now for most, they are small waves sure, but then I have only been playing for a fortnight, so for me they are sizable. A couple of the waves got decimated, 1 wave lost all attacking ships and got no roids / ships. But I lost a shed load of roads from the other two, 25% for each wave, and they had done their homework and sent the right kind of ships to give me a pasting. Now thats the nature of the game, I get that. But I did not get a single ship from ingal def, despite the fact that I have helped with ingal def every day.

So my point is, for people like me, with no friends playing, and in a gal that doesn't work together, having ship sets that are deliberately poor in case you team up has a negative impact on the game and makes it lose a huge amount of it's appeal. I notice several threads making suggestions about attracting and retaining players, well making stat sets where individual players can still be successful depending upon the level of their commitment, and limiting the numbers / effects of large alliances / team ups, will make the game far more enjoyable.
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Unread 1 Apr 2009, 22:44   #89
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Re: R31 shipstats

Chulain, I think the shipstats have very little to do with the problem you're describing.

This game has always, and will always, be a MULTIPLAYER game. I don't mean to 'scare you away' and I don't mean to be/sound offensive, but if you wish to play Solo, don't play Planetarion.
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Unread 1 Apr 2009, 23:36   #90
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Re: R31 shipstats

I dont think its such a bad thing to wish that races could reasonably solo raid and I think all stats makers have that in mind too... its just very hard to do and make balanced
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Unread 1 Apr 2009, 23:39   #91
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Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chulain
as an Etd, I have only managed one successful landing as a solo player.
This is an effect of it being the end of the round, ppl have their fleets correctly proportioned to defend and alot of the time defend with two fleets rather than attacking with 2 or 3 so there is more defence around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chulain
the gal I am in have ignored repeated requests from me to team up on a few raids.
Here you have a problem etd is a race that really (this round) needs a teamup partner at this stage of the round due to the way its ships target (broadsword firing at cr 1st makes it weak against fr, while the smuggler is pretty weak as an attack ship firing up), atm with Gate's stats this would not be so much of a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chulain
I did not get a single ship from ingal def, despite the fact that I have helped with ingal def every day.
Unfortunatly thats something you have to deal with ingal, if you had been helpful it then they should try to defend you, however as someone new and not being on they pobably simply forgot about you in the scramble to defend their own roids... again this is something that being in a gal longer should help solve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chulain
having ship sets that are deliberately poor in case you team up has a negative impact on the game and makes it lose a huge amount of it's appeal.
I dont think anyone wants to make a stats set that is deliberately poor, or even a single race that is poor, every round we aim for and argue about what makes a balanced and playable set of stats and about how much should be changed. There are however differences in how races are played and etd and zik are probably two of the more difficult to play.
It is really difficult to make a stats set that will reflect level of commitment to the game and amount of time playing it. However we are already some way there. zik's are difficult to play and only really for experienced players because they fire last so are difficult to attack and defend with: you also want to be targeting the right steals and need to be online when attacked to make sure you build the right ships. Terrans on the other hand tend to have a fleet that is easy to roid with (in this round it was cr) and have very high armour so they can sit home and if you are not on when you get an attack land on you then hopefully unless you are being bashed you will absorb the attack and fire some shots back... the salvage bonus will mean that you can rebuild much of what was lost.

generally I agree with Patrikc that what you are discribing is not something the stats can really do something about. no matter what you do with a set of stats if they are balanced then they wont work for all levels of activity and experience... you just cant have a race that will work for inactives because they would be too easy to abuse by the experienced players. It is areas outside the stats like xp, salvage, galaxies and alliances that have to address this problem.
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Unread 2 Apr 2009, 00:20   #92
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
Chulain, I think the shipstats have very little to do with the problem you're describing.

This game has always, and will always, be a MULTIPLAYER game. I don't mean to 'scare you away' and I don't mean to be/sound offensive, but if you wish to play Solo, don't play Planetarion.
You won't scare me away - I am far to old in the tooth for that. But I think you might be surprised how many people are playing as solo's here and if they all got up and left......

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji View Post

I dont think anyone wants to make a stats set that is deliberately poor, or even a single race that is poor, every round we aim for and argue about what makes a balanced and playable set of stats and about how much should be changed. There are however differences in how races are played and etd and zik are probably two of the more difficult to play.

Yeah, I am aware of what you are saying, I have played in almost all of the previous rounds, missed the last couple due to computer problems and various things. Sometimes I play here with with my mates, sometimes not. I have previously played all the races except cathaar, my fav being zik, and I play them mostly. This is my first round with etd, and unfortunately I was so late in entering the round that I haven't had the oportunity to give them a good try. I have been in alliances many times and have a good feel for the game. I was more referring to things like the following from Morpheus....

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
yeah, zik is pretty weak, with their initial setup, however, there is 1) alot of BS/CR fleets to teamup with and 2) ziks will cap pods soon enough imo understand you point though
The way I interpret this comment is that he is knowingly making Ziks poor to begin with because he thinks that they will get lucky later in the game, or that they will be able to team up with other players for a good combined fleet. But if you are unfortunate, like I have been this time then you might not, and end up having a really naff round.

I must say that I think that all races should have their unique abilities, strengths and weaknesses. Giving cathaar and terans steal ships is wrong, giving anyone other than cathaar emp is in my opinion wrong - except for etd having a hybrid mix, which is interesting. I just think that on balance each race should be able to stand up for itself without having to team up or rely on getting lucky.

In previous rounds it used to be that the game was best played with plenty of mates, but you could have still have a satisfying round even if you were in a naff gal or playing solo. Most of the time when I have played in an alliance, each player has targeted a single planet in the chosen gal for an attack. If there is a particularly big planet then maybe one or two would team up for that raid. But by having one or two waves of incomming on every single planet in a chosen gal, each of the planets is forced to either defend their roids or leg it to safety and there is usually very little ingal defence to worry about. As a solo the game style is very different, you have to plan each attack and the fleet composition exactly, any def can totally screw up your fleet, and you end up recalling most of your attacks.

I wasn't thinking about a race for inactives, I am on every day before work and throughout the evening, but my IT department has set the web marshal to block this site and I can't get round it. So it limits me during office hours. If someone is inactive - thats their own problem, but for a fairly active player - 1 defensive fleet and 2 ish attacks per night - it can be frustrating when most of them get recalled. Perhaps next round will be more interesting as I will be there from the begining.

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Unread 2 Apr 2009, 00:21   #93
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Re: R31 shipstats

The game doesn't know if it's a single or multiplayer game though.

As such, the game mechanics are skewed since they've been progressively fiddled with in a manner to try to do both, but end up not doing either very well at all.
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Unread 2 Apr 2009, 02:06   #94
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Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chulain View Post
So my point is, for people like me, with no friends playing, and in a gal that doesn't work together, having ship sets that are deliberately poor in case you team up has a negative impact on the game and makes it lose a huge amount of it's appeal. I notice several threads making suggestions about attracting and retaining players, well making stat sets where individual players can still be successful depending upon the level of their commitment, and limiting the numbers / effects of large alliances / team ups, will make the game far more enjoyable.
good point i think, however finding "friends" in PA is pretty easy, if you play a full round from the start.
i am sure if you play the next round from tick0, you will find 1 or 2 ppl who you come along good with, and which may want to play with you in the future(bp?)
same for if you join an alliance, and i think thats the most important part with the current setup of PA, you need an alliance to do good, specially if your "alone" in a galaxy
and also in your alliance, i am sure you find some ppl which like you and who you like aswell.
You shouldnt be alone after 1-2 rounds of PA anymore (if you arent a total moron pissing everyone of (not implying you are))

however i agree that the setup of stats should allow more soloing
i am afraid though that this can be achieved in only two or three ways (i dont see any more then those)

1) return to singletargeting and reduce the amount of ships

2) heavily reduce the amount of ships

3) remove 1 or 2 races

i tried with setting up stats, but them will turn out with the round progressing, that you will not be able to land solo on anyone (even with my try to remove all third and many second targets) as its simply too many ships/races involved

maybe in a 7 week round it wont happen that fast and massive, but it for sure does in a 10 week one, so when Pete decides to do another long round, he should have that in mind

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chulain View Post
The way I interpret this comment is that he is knowingly making Ziks poor to begin with because he thinks that they will get lucky later in the game, or that they will be able to team up with other players for a good combined fleet. But if you are unfortunate, like I have been this time then you might not, and end up having a really naff round.
well first of all, ppl playing solo, knowing not many other ppl, or having no alliance i dont think are the ones who should pick zik, as you will need defence, you will need defence calls to send your ships, and due to the late init, you will have to teamup to gain roids and ships (until you managed to steal loads of stuff at least)

the reasons i made zik so weak in your and others eyes, is that i think zik planets can turn out to be massive fortress planets, with some "luck" in stealing, and i see way too many zik fleets, that make me suspicious how they got more xan fi then i have (i am xan, and not the smallest around)

its imo the perfect cheater race, and with makin their initial stats "weak" it should keep many of those away from picking em.
This maybe isnt fair against everyone not cheating, but i would risk to annoy some zik players, just to prevent the universe from seeing a lot of "cheated" fleets.
Another point is that the current salvage rule and also the production hiding thing are two "Aces" for ziks. As you can hide all your value in production and hit small inactive planets to farm their ships while the big guys cant attack you and if someone does you can release your production steal all of the attacking ships + gain a lot back in salvage, if not all or more.(+ 1:1 bot planets are returning, who build impressive fleets like 100000 beetle and no viper etc...., at least they dont build pods...)

those things make ziks strong, so imo the stats of zik should be the weakest of all races...

or your remove zik and etd entirely from the game and with em all steal ships
that would fix that issue also
cause farming roids isnt nearly as bad as farming the right ships

/me thinks i didnt make more friends with this post
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Unread 2 Apr 2009, 06:29   #95
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
i am not gonna say anything, before isil is going to shoot me

i just know which race i will play
"Heh"

I`d shoot it down if I thought it was blatantly wrong, so just dont try to make any blatantly wrong comments.
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Unread 2 Apr 2009, 11:37   #96
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
1) return to singletargeting and reduce the amount of ships
This sounds awful IMO. Reduce the amount of ships: if you reduce each race to 6 ships and have single targeting, then that's it. Every race has to build exactly the same ships (or leave a class completely untargeted). The only options are different ratios of ships. And I think that sucks.

I like multitargeting because it gives you options in how you build your fleet. Also stealing is fun, it should stay.

Having fewer races, or branched stats would be good though IMO.
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Unread 2 Apr 2009, 14:07   #97
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Re: R31 shipstats

Xan needs a new Anti CR ship.... the peacekeeper just takes too long to build a nice sized fleet of..... this whole round Cr landed 2/3 of all attacks on me.
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Unread 2 Apr 2009, 14:27   #98
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Re: R31 shipstats

I do believe that was absolutely the point.
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Unread 2 Apr 2009, 14:54   #99
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
http://www.geocities.com/nd_wtf/r31set1.txt

Wasnt it? Terran = Normal, Cath = EMP, Xan = CLOAK, Zik = STEAL and ETD = Mixture?
Agreed, keep emp/steal/cloack to the races where they belong and tweak down emp power.. otherwise the current round`s stats are okish
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Unread 2 Apr 2009, 15:26   #100
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by Gate View Post
This sounds awful IMO. Reduce the amount of ships: if you reduce each race to 6 ships and have single targeting, then that's it. Every race has to build exactly the same ships (or leave a class completely untargeted). The only options are different ratios of ships. And I think that sucks.

I like multitargeting because it gives you options in how you build your fleet. Also stealing is fun, it should stay.

Having fewer races, or branched stats would be good though IMO.
Gate i dont like it either, i´d love to see many many diffrent ships and many many diffrent options to play the game
but (especially at the late stage of the round, which is pretty early in a long round) it will lead to no one able to land solo on anyone anymore

the question is though, if it should be that way, or if we want to change it

i find it rather bad, not to soloattack, cause i dislike teamups with ppl i dont know (pulling without notice, pulling cause of a "messy" jpg without having it calced, pulling though not everyone is reachable etc, not sending mails, not smsing etc etc etc...)
and even if you have one standard attack partner, in the late stage it hardly will be enough
also all those single players, without ally, without friends, without irc?, would be better off with stats allowing solos

i dont see a way to combine both things i want to have though (many diffrent options & soloing possible), not with the battle engine we are using at least

Edit: Reducing Salvage could be a start though
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Last edited by M0RPH3US; 2 Apr 2009 at 16:03.
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