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Unread 12 Dec 2004, 10:07   #1
Gerbie
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Rnd 13

Any reason for politics to change next round? Aparantly ND is proud to have reached it's goals (I have no idea what they were). 1up failed, but I don't think they are very dissatisfied with the outcome. Leading me to conclude we'll see the same powerblocks back next round. Unless someone tries to prevent it.
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Unread 12 Dec 2004, 10:10   #2
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Re: Rnd 13

Politics should change because without change there is stagnation.
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Unread 12 Dec 2004, 13:39   #3
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Re: Rnd 13

Power blocks er ? Good post Gerbie !
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Unread 12 Dec 2004, 13:49   #4
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Re: Rnd 13

what powerblocks? are you playing the same game? FFS Gerbie try to make some sense
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
LCH is too far away, now they are the same roid amout as 1up
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Unread 12 Dec 2004, 13:57   #5
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Re: Rnd 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbie
Any reason for politics to change next round?
Yes.
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Unread 12 Dec 2004, 15:36   #6
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Re: Rnd 13

Gerbie wins the internet next round.
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Unread 12 Dec 2004, 15:54   #7
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Re: Rnd 13

Gerbie always reminds me of a boyscout.
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Unread 12 Dec 2004, 16:37   #8
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Re: Rnd 13

weren't boyscouts supposed to be smart?
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Unread 12 Dec 2004, 17:00   #9
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Re: Rnd 13

I've never heard about some kind of intelligence test or any other requirement you have to go through before they accept you as a boyscout, I thought you just need to be lonely, forgotten, without brothers and sisters and having parents who are working more then is healthy.
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Unread 12 Dec 2004, 17:16   #10
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Re: Rnd 13

hehe true but i thought they were trained to be 'resourcefull' and 'adaptable' or something but hey who am i
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Unread 12 Dec 2004, 20:36   #11
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Re: Rnd 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbie
1up failed.
Damn it :*(

PS: If in reference to our "kingmaking", I believe we were successful in keeping the round as fluid as possible considering we had been hitting major alliances throughout the entire round even though our player base was much smaller. You're just twisting things again to suit your posting.
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Unread 12 Dec 2004, 20:44   #12
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Re: Rnd 13

we 'failed' in our original duty as 'kingmakers', we somehow landed on top LCH made sure we didnt hoist ND to the top, instead of trying to knock us off of our perch, but that's for another thread
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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
LCH is too far away, now they are the same roid amout as 1up
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Unread 12 Dec 2004, 20:50   #13
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Re: Rnd 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzureWrath
we 'failed' in our original duty as 'kingmakers', we somehow landed on top LCH made sure we didnt hoist ND to the top, instead of trying to knock us off of our perch, but that's for another thread
oh this must be another example of

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzureWrath
what powerblocks? are you playing the same game? FFS Gerbie try to make some sense
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Unread 12 Dec 2004, 21:58   #14
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Re: Rnd 13



What are you talking about Alki, everything he said is correct and makes sense.
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Unread 12 Dec 2004, 22:01   #15
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Re: Rnd 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish


What are you talking about Alki, everything he said is correct and makes sense.
Powerblock = 1up and whoever we wanted as king.

Rather obvious really Fisheh
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Unread 12 Dec 2004, 22:21   #16
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Re: Rnd 13

can I be the king ? plz can I ? CAN I ?!
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Unread 12 Dec 2004, 22:38   #17
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Re: Rnd 13

1up tried to kingmake Barrow, Fish and I.

It didn't work.

They suck.
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Unread 12 Dec 2004, 22:45   #18
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Re: Rnd 13

lol. Gerbie what happened to you dude. Yes, politics will be different. If winners keep pwning losers in the same fashion, losers quit. Noone wants PA players to quit.
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Unread 12 Dec 2004, 23:05   #19
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Re: Rnd 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
1up tried to kingmake Barrow, Fish and I.

It didn't work.

They suck.
I'm sorry Forgive me?
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Unread 12 Dec 2004, 23:26   #20
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Re: Rnd 13

Even if he does, I do not.

You powerblocking scum
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Unread 13 Dec 2004, 00:16   #21
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Re: Rnd 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stals
can I be the king ? plz can I ? CAN I ?!
No. You are the court jester. Live with it.
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Unread 13 Dec 2004, 01:21   #22
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Re: Rnd 13

I imagine that politics will change substantially next round. They never stay the same overall although some relationships remain constant over a few rounds (fury/legion, wp/ely, eclipse/tot etc). Alliance relationships are usually either positive or negative (or pro-active and reactive if you prefer) ones, an example of a positive relationship would be nos and xanadu from r4 heading into r5 where they chose to ally each other more than they were forced into the situation (or VVOMM in r9), an example of a negative relationship would be 1up and ND this round where both of their realistic options were limited (or Nahr or whatever the blazes the third block was called in r9). You might have objections to my portrayal of individual alliances but frankly I don't care because the point concerns the difference and my examples illustrate that fairly well.

For next round, as for every round, the question exists over who will alliances react away from and who will they tend towards. Obviously every single preference doesn't matter so it's what scenarios are likely and which ones are improbable. The main motivator for next round will be that nobody wants 1up to win (at this point it's fairly self-evident that 1up will win, I said myself that if they reached the same overall score level as LCH they wouldn't be taken down and I stand by that prediction). The one relationship I absolutely cannot envision next round is LCH and 1up (assuming both of those alliances remain for r13) together. 1up will have to play it very smart next round if they want to be in the reckoning at the end, personally if I was 1up and my goal was to win as many rounds as possible I'd give it a break, either fully or in the sense of less activity/less members.

If 1up stick around and play seriously they'll get swamped early on. Assuming more than one other alliance has a) a set of balls and b) a vague clue about how strategy works they will simply have too many incoming fleets to defend enough of their planets. Everyone else has to block or 1up will win, 1up has to block to avoid losing. If both of my premises there, a vast majority of people don't want 1up to win and 1up doesn't want to lose are true than blocks are inevitable.

Sid, in his big "1up are here!" thread, said himself
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We will also enter next round with no enemies (at least none of our own making).......The carrying over of "grudges" from one round to the next is one reason for the seemingly endless cycle of two sides having been drawn up before each round even begins. We want no part of that.
Unfortunately now 1up are the reason for the grudges being carried over. Someone will have to be either inventive or forgiving. Once again PA has two sides. It will need a third block.

As per usual the biggest question of all is want do you want from next round of PA? If you want stagnation free interesting conflicts in which the winner is not decided before the round begins then forget your petty grudges and look out for yourself next round. The key to victory lies in self-knowledge, what are your abilities and what are your desires? Know these and some crap sun tzu said will probably come true. I don't know, I don't even play this game anymore. What on earth am I writing this for?
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Unread 13 Dec 2004, 01:51   #23
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Re: Rnd 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSmoke
I've never heard about some kind of intelligence test or any other requirement you have to go through before they accept you as a boyscout, I thought you just need to be lonely, forgotten, without brothers and sisters and having parents who are working more then is healthy.

its a pity that u dont know nothing real about BoyScouts but not all ppl can stay in scouts and this is for some reason ,are requeriments , and ur description about ppl in Boyscouts is not like it is but well what i know .... i am scout sincei was 9 years old ..
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Unread 13 Dec 2004, 03:19   #24
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Re: Rnd 13

Its unfortunate that things have dropped into a 2 sided system. 1up has generally favored more diversity in alliances because the present situation basically sucks. What the game suffers from is a lack of competent leadership. Frankly, as hard as it is to play a top flight planet, its 4.37 times harder to run a top flight alliance. Most people who are qualified to do this for some reason find they don't have the 17 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 4 months to give to Planetarion. And so we're left with a handful of alliances worth talking about.
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Unread 13 Dec 2004, 03:42   #25
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Re: Rnd 13

The problem with what JBG says is that every alliance has to have an interest in 1up's destruction.

This round hasn't been the case, hence they've stayed alive.

Quite honestly, I see 1up as an alliance that has little to prove and am struggling to find motivation for them to keep going into next round.
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Unread 13 Dec 2004, 03:47   #26
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Re: Rnd 13

Many alliances have competent leadership, what they lack is the discipline. It has been showed in the past two rounds, the complete and utter inability of the contenders being able to control their members. LCH doesn't fight 1up because their members refuse to attack 1up. If alliances were better able to control their players, and organize their firepower where it is needed, then maybe we wouldn't be having these problems.
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Unread 13 Dec 2004, 03:58   #27
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Re: Rnd 13

I dont agree Cayl. It doesnt take 12 hours per day to run an alliance. It all depends on how many else you got to share the burden.

Now, the biggest problem with HC's in planetarion, is that so many are blatently incompetent. To often, the biggest egos end up beeing a HC, without really having the experience or skills to do the job. There they do little more than create their own group of loyal, sucking up peons. Or to use the HC postion to attack with 3 fleets.
Even when the choices they have done, like NAHR in r9, fails totally, they dont step down. Oh now.

There is people who could have done a good job as a HC, but who dont have a huge ego so they dont put fourth their own name or never get asked.
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Unread 13 Dec 2004, 04:00   #28
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Re: Rnd 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helix
Many alliances have competent leadership, what they lack is the discipline. It has been showed in the past two rounds, the complete and utter inability of the contenders being able to control their members. LCH doesn't fight 1up because their members refuse to attack 1up. If alliances were better able to control their players, and organize their firepower where it is needed, then maybe we wouldn't be having these problems.
There exist no comptent leadership who doesnt enforce disipline.
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Unread 13 Dec 2004, 18:54   #29
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Re: Rnd 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Quite honestly, I see 1up as an alliance that has little to prove and am struggling to find motivation for them to keep going into next round.
just change the name again. for the 3rd time.
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Unread 13 Dec 2004, 20:04   #30
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Re: Rnd 13

I agree with Zhukov and Idler in believing the overwhelming majority are incompetent.
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Unread 13 Dec 2004, 20:09   #31
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Re: Rnd 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
The problem with what JBG says is that every alliance has to have an interest in 1up's destruction.

This round hasn't been the case, hence they've stayed alive.

Quite honestly, I see 1up as an alliance that has little to prove and am struggling to find motivation for them to keep going into next round.
Obviously alliances such as insomnia or ToF don't have that much interest in 1up's destruction as they have very little realistic chance of winning next round (sorry guys ). However if every alliance with a realistic chance of winning or at least competing, I'd include ND, LCH, HR, VsN, whatever Angels/FAnG related alliance pops up and Wolfpack in this list, wants to win the round they have to take out 1up early on. This round people didn't go in expecting 1up to be on top yet again (it even broke my string of predicting round winners correctly since r7). Next round unless they remove themselves from the running they'll be pounded in a similar fashion to r6 except this time around there won't be a third block. Of course some of those alliances might sacrifice their chance at number one to help 1up but I don't think that's generally beneficial to the game.

I also don't see why 1up would remain next round. Maybe their members enjoy PA
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Unread 13 Dec 2004, 20:24   #32
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Re: Rnd 13

ND's only viable political plan from my view (no idea what the HC are thinking) seemed to have gambled on the universe teaming up on 1up while we both went all in on LCH, hence popping us at the top of the tree at a similar stage to when 1up overtook LCH. Teaming up on 1up wasn't in ND's interest, as it would have probably resulted in their own destruction.

From my point of view ND were disliked by large majority of the 'other' non-1up alliances, so they had little other option. ND had no interest in beating down 1up, as they'd just get done over by LCH/HR/VsN/MISTU afterwards. It's arguable that in the non-1up scenario, LCH are the only possible winners when they have an alliance the size of VsN in their pocket and i'd hardly say that such a predictable outcome is good in any way whatsoever.

In effect we're approaching a cycle where politics must again be based on rational strategy rather than spite which can only realistically be undertaken by new major forces entering the game and altering the picture somewhat.
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Unread 13 Dec 2004, 20:39   #33
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Re: Rnd 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
ND's only viable political plan from my view (no idea what the HC are thinking) seemed to have gambled on the universe teaming up on 1up while we both went all in on LCH, hence popping us at the top of the tree at a similar stage to when 1up overtook LCH. Teaming up on 1up wasn't in ND's interest, as it would have probably resulted in their own destruction.
ND were left in a difficult situation this round where their ideal route was not easily seen. Certain approaches were quite literally closed off to them and their remaining choices couldn't do everything they wanted from them.

Quote:
From my point of view ND were disliked by large majority of the 'other' non-1up alliances, so they had little other option. ND had no interest in beating down 1up, as they'd just get done over by LCH/HR/VsN/MISTU afterwards. It's arguable that in the non-1up scenario, LCH are the only possible winners when they have an alliance the size of VsN in their pocket and i'd hardly say that such a predictable outcome is good in any way whatsoever.
Unfortunately when one alliance has a positive relationship it forces others into negative ones. At the start of this round MISTU were a real force but they got utterly pasted over the course of a few nights leading to the effective collapse of their alliance. Personally, if I was HC of a middling alliance such as ND (I'd classify LCH and 1up as the only high alliances), I'd have tried to keep alliances such as MISTU (and absolute) in the game for as long as possible. You have to avoid the number of players being reduced to the point where it alliance politics becomes side A versus side B.

Quote:
In effect we're approaching a cycle where politics must again be based on rational strategy rather than spite which can only realistically be undertaken by new major forces entering the game and altering the picture somewhat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Unfortunately now 1up are the reason for the grudges being carried over. Someone will have to be either inventive or forgiving. Once again PA has two sides. It will need a third block.
Great minds my friend!
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Unread 13 Dec 2004, 21:01   #34
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Re: Rnd 13

Yeah, but in ND's case the negative relationships (LCH and MISTU) already seemed to exist. ND could not preserve MISTU, as it seems they are always going to be an alliance after us from tick 1. Effectively we'd only have had HR in the bank, but i doubt they'd be sufficient to take down VsN/LCH and even if we did, it would result in a universe massively in favour of HR as opposed to ND - a much longer (and most likely suicidal) gamble than the one ND chose instead. As you observe, it results in certain alliances hands being horribly tied.

I think the alliances outside of LCH/1up would be far more successful if they had far more wiley HC, who were able to look at a 'bigger picture' and have the ability to hold superior alliances to political ransom.

I actually predicted a 1up win for this round, as they were clearly going for a win, understated their hand well, and guessed they'd slowly rise to the top. Sid timed their charge perfectly, and all credit to them.
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Unread 14 Dec 2004, 00:07   #35
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Re: Rnd 13

Gerbie, your STILL here!
Jonnybgood....you really have to stop thinking m8ty
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Unread 14 Dec 2004, 01:01   #36
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Re: Rnd 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeus
Jonnybgood....you really have to stop thinking m8ty
Don't worry. I use this for all of my posts with more than one sentence.
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Unread 14 Dec 2004, 01:38   #37
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Re: Rnd 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken

Quite honestly, I see 1up as an alliance that has little to prove and am struggling to find motivation for them to keep going into next round.

I don't think it's about proving anything, or at this point, winning another round. I think most of us would choose retirement over playing for another alliance...I certainly would, and will if 1up ceases to exist after the round.

The motivation is simply to play with the group of people we have enjoyed playing with for two rounds now, win or lose.
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Unread 14 Dec 2004, 01:52   #38
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Re: Rnd 13

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
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Unread 14 Dec 2004, 04:35   #39
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Re: Rnd 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
I agree with Zhukov and Idler in believing the overwhelming majority are incompetent.
specially when all politics really is, is a vast collection of chains of commands all tangled to each other with the full awareness that in many ways, their shitty communities are in haywire but at the same time, obligated to, so they become too busy making and keeping themselves look good in front of everybody, sucking each other off, when in the back of their minds, theyre chanting to themselves "i am better than you..." because its the "political" thing to do, although most of the time, unethical - then all this goes back to their lower chain, where the peons will laugh at their jokes because the "political" thing to do is to laugh at your bosses' jokes because for some reason they're aaaalways funny... - everybody's stabbing each other in the back - and this should be good for the game.... with this in mind stagnation is an impossibility..
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Unread 14 Dec 2004, 04:54   #40
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Re: Rnd 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by demiGOD
specially when all politics really is, is a vast collection of chains of commands all tangled to each other with the full awareness that in many ways, their shitty communities are in haywire but at the same time, obligated to, so they become too busy making and keeping themselves look good in front of everybody, sucking each other off, when in the back of their minds, theyre chanting to themselves "i am better than you..." because its the "political" thing to do, although most of the time, unethical - then all this goes back to their lower chain, where the peons will laugh at their jokes because the "political" thing to do is to laugh at your bosses' jokes because for some reason they're aaaalways funny... - everybody's stabbing each other in the back - and this should be good for the game.... with this in mind stagnation is an impossibility..

That's one hell of a sentence you've got there.

As to what I've interpreted your actual point to be I'd have to say that the members of the PA community has become far more self-aware and far less suspect to the sort of attention whoring that was common in the early rounds. If someone acts like a moron they get told they are in very succint terms. Of course this may not be true outside of people I know/am aware of.
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Unread 14 Dec 2004, 08:06   #41
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Re: Rnd 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by demiGOD
specially when all politics really is, is a vast collection of chains of commands all tangled to each other with the full awareness that in many ways, their shitty communities are in haywire but at the same time, obligated to, so they become too busy making and keeping themselves look good in front of everybody, sucking each other off, when in the back of their minds, theyre chanting to themselves "i am better than you..." because its the "political" thing to do, although most of the time, unethical - then all this goes back to their lower chain, where the peons will laugh at their jokes because the "political" thing to do is to laugh at your bosses' jokes because for some reason they're aaaalways funny... - everybody's stabbing each other in the back - and this should be good for the game.... with this in mind stagnation is an impossibility..
I beat Sid in MissionRisk. We miscalculated our backstab of eachother and thus someone else stole our victory.

I haven't really encountered what you've been saying recently anyhow. I know I play with 1up due to friendships and loyalty not to "suck up".
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Unread 14 Dec 2004, 18:47   #42
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Re: Rnd 13

1up anno R11 is definately one of the best communities I've played pa/pia in. Even some of those egos we had was an important part of our community.
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Unread 15 Dec 2004, 09:24   #43
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Re: Rnd 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbie
Any reason for politics to change next round? Aparantly ND is proud to have reached it's goals (I have no idea what they were). 1up failed, but I don't think they are very dissatisfied with the outcome. Leading me to conclude we'll see the same powerblocks back next round. Unless someone tries to prevent it.
I believe this time ppl will keep the eyes open for the right spot
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Unread 15 Dec 2004, 14:37   #44
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Re: Rnd 13

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can I be the king ? plz can I ? CAN I ?!
WHen i get my roids back, ill let you be king on the cold areas of my planet :/
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Unread 21 Dec 2004, 21:59   #45
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Re: Rnd 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Obviously alliances such as insomnia or ToF don't have that much interest in 1up's destruction as they have very little realistic chance of winning next round (sorry guys ).
Please let me know when u find someone capable of organizing an attack against 1up. And as for not having much interest in destroying 1up, atm we don't have much interest in anything
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Unread 21 Dec 2004, 22:05   #46
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Re: Rnd 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbie
Any reason for politics to change next round? Aparantly ND is proud to have reached it's goals (I have no idea what they were). 1up failed, but I don't think they are very dissatisfied with the outcome. Leading me to conclude we'll see the same powerblocks back next round. Unless someone tries to prevent it.

Our goal = finish higher than F-Crew, since their leader is positive the game sucks and not his ability


oh sorry, that was a flame...err...

my bad

we had fun, and we attacked people, and we kicked some ass, and we goofed off... = achieving our goals
and on a side note... i have interest in lasagna
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Unread 21 Dec 2004, 22:21   #47
god113
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Re: Rnd 13

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Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk
Our goal = finish higher than F-Crew, since their leader is positive the game sucks and not his ability


oh sorry, that was a flame...err...

my bad

we had fun, and we attacked people, and we kicked some ass, and we goofed off... = achieving our goals
and on a side note... i have interest in lasagna
I don't think I know you, but I like lasagna too!
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Unread 22 Dec 2004, 15:28   #48
berten
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Re: Rnd 13

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Originally Posted by SilverSmoke
I thought you just need to be lonely, forgotten, without brothers and sisters and having parents who are working more then is healthy.
hmz tbh =p i've been boyscout for 8 years, and none from the above is true when looking at me
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Unread 23 Dec 2004, 00:09   #49
TheBerk
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Re: Rnd 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by god113
I don't think I know you, but I like lasagna too!
\o/ lasagne rules...

not the vegetarian option though, that doesnt rule
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Unread 23 Dec 2004, 00:10   #50
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Re: Rnd 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBerk
\o/ lasagne rules...

not the vegetarian option though, that doesnt rule

I KNOW! The vegetarian one isn't worthy of the name.
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