should fat people be allowed free surgery

[madi]

do you think obese people should be allowed free stomach staple surgery when they refuse to follow healthy eating plans to loose weight?

(currently doing some statistics on connection of stomach to transposed jejunum surgical procedures)

[Proteus]

No. They should be allowed free exercise in public parks.

[melandron]

And free air to eat instead of chocolate!

oh wait... i'm fat..... doh!

[madi]

Originally Posted by Proteus

No. They should be allowed free exercise in public parks.

oh god no
not in public
not until they are of reasonable size

i would rather pay for their surgery than see fat people in lycra running

[Proteus]

Originally Posted by madi

oh god no
not in public
not until they are of reasonable size

i would rather pay for their surgery than see fat people in lycra running

I meant at night, obviously. We can't have them outraging public decency.

[Marilyn Manson]

Fat people shold be made to give up their seats on buses to normal people.

[Knight Theamion]

The Fatty Must Die

[nick]

Yes, to have their mouth shut.

[Sunday8pm]

I would perhaps instead Madi look into not doing stomach stapling at all on the NHS if these latest results about patients suffering nerve damage are anything to go by.

A significant number of patients who have stomach surgery to lose weight develop peripheral nerve damage, research has found.

A team at the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota found patients complained of pain, tingling or numbness.

They believe the damage is caused by malnutrition as the body is less able to absorb nutrients following surgery.

The research, focused on stomach stapling and gastric bypass surgery, will be published in Neurology.

Given NHS's reputation for their catering I'd severly suggest doing the utmost you can to make sure you can't give out stomach stapling on the NHS as it could lead to all sorts of legal problems if your follow up is the regular sort the NHS usually goes by... (feed em crap and try and move em out of a bed asap to get waiting lists down).

[TheShadowMan]

To be honest I think this thread is bs. Who cares if fat people are fat. Obviously the people who do are the same people who ridiculed fat people in school. Please refrain from slagging off fat people to be honest its their choice at the end of the day if they want to be like that and its none of your fcuking business and you aint got no ****ing right to be shitting on them.

An no for the recrd I'm not fat i just am someone who can live with the fact that people look different.

Grow up or **** off

[1-X]

If they want surgery and it will give them a chance to make a fresh start/improve their quality of life, it's money well spent and I wish them well. It's hardly "free" treatment; fat people pay taxes too.

This is the same argument as should drinkers get liver transplants, smokers get cancer treatment etc and it's been done to death.

Perhaps the real problem here is with insecure people who base their self-worth around something as shallow as body image, and seek to reinforce this through the vilification of what they delusionally think of as their inferiors.

[Ninja_spammer]

If they refuse to eat healthily then why would they be seeking major surgery to correct their 'problem' ?

[JC]

Originally Posted by Ninja_spammer

If they refuse to eat healthily then why would they be seeking major surgery to correct their 'problem' ?

Because they dont want to die of coronary heart disease?

[LHC]

Then maybe they should eat healthily.

[Ninja_spammer]

Originally Posted by JC

Because they dont want to die of coronary heart disease?

If you need stomach surgery its probably already too late to avoid that fate.

If you cannot stick to a healthy eating plan before surgery then what chance is there of you sticking to it after?

[JC]

Originally Posted by Ninja_spammer

If you cannot stick to a healthy eating plan before surgery then what chance is there of you sticking to it after?

Some dont seem to be able to give up stuffing themselves with chocolate etc. If they have their stomach stitched up though they physically cant eat that much. Some guy i was readin about in the paper couldnt have more than 5 tablespoons of food before he started feeling sick (he lost 6 stones in 5 months). I cant think that reducing your diet that much will be too great for your body either, but it does work in terms of getting fat people to lose weight.

[Ninja_spammer]

Originally Posted by JC

Some dont seem to be able to give up stuffing themselves with chocolate etc. If they have their stomach stitched up though they physically cant eat that much. Some guy i was readin about in the paper couldnt have more than 5 tablespoons of food before he started feeling sick (he lost 6 stones in 5 months). I cant think that reducing your diet that much will be too great for your body either, but it does work in terms of getting fat people to lose weight.

Hmm, I was under the belief (probably mistaken it seems) that the staples where removed at some point post surgery, what is to stop them taking up their 'bad' habits again afterwards?

[JC]

If i still had a copy of the Sun i would check up on the guy i was talking about but unfortunately i gave it to someone else on the train when i'ld finished reading it. He might have actually had a section of his stomach removed rather than just staples. I'm not too sure what happens with people that have their stomach's stapled tbh.

[Nodrog]

I can't think of any reason why not, but I'm not sure how easy it would be for them to find a surgeon who will perform operations while receiving nothing in compensation. I suppose its theoretically possible for there to exist some wealthy philanthropist with a medical degree who gives fatties free operations in his surgery.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Ninja_spammer

Hmm, I was under the belief (probably mistaken it seems) that the staples where removed at some point post surgery, what is to stop them taking up their 'bad' habits again afterwards?

I'd imagine if every time you ate you felt physically sick you'd quickly gain an aversion to eating a lot.

On the original topic : Yes, I'm in support of favouring of funding of surgery to allow any group of people to live a "normal" life. At least once per individual. I wouldn't reject lung cancer patients who had been smokers for a similar reason.

[Sunday8pm]

I think this is all trivial with regards to the article posted above.

It doesn't sound like the NHS should be adopting a surgery with such inherent post op risks that could leave them liable.

[Phalon]

Yes, if they agree to spend several years in a third world country living off rice and typhoid infested water.

Just so they can see the other extreme of people not so 'fortunate'.

Seriously, unless there is some serious medical reason, 'addicted to food' doesn't count, then they should be made to 'repay' in some way.

Same goes for smokers and alcoholics.

[Tomkat]

Practicing medicine students should be allowed to try their skills with them, if the fatties get it for free. At worst they just get a huge disfiguring scar, which is always better than not being able to see your own penis.

[Phalon]

heh

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Phalon

Same goes for smokers and alcoholics.

Or people who get into fights after a night drinking, or people who get sporting injuries, or people who eat a high-cholestoral diet, and people who didn't pay attention crossing the road, and people who've been in an accident via dangerous driving, and people who have taken drugs, and....

[Kurashima]

Maid should be forced to eat lunch in KFC for a month with fat people to see how the other half lives.

[Sunday8pm]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Practicing medicine students should be allowed to try their skills with them, if the fatties get it for free. At worst they just get a huge disfiguring scar, which is always better than not being able to see your own penis.

I hope medical students are first in line with trynig any life saving operation on you given your lack of concern for it Mr. Drink Driver.

At least a Fat person isn't going to kill anyone but himself.

[LHC]

What about a fat drink driver?

[Sunday8pm]

Originally Posted by LHC

What about a fat drink driver?

Falls under the drink driver bracket, not the fat bracket.

[MeridianStar]

And there's a problem... most people have to lose weight before the NHS will perform this op. Go figure.

[Richie987]

:gollum:

[mist]

Originally Posted by MeridianStar

And there's a problem... most people have to lose weight before the NHS will perform this op. Go figure.

past a certain point, general anestetics are quite dangerous. i'd imagine you're refering to people who're so fat that they won't anesnatise them for the operation.

on another note - nhs operating tables are only rated to a certain weight. a friend dated someone (from america) who had this kind of operation. had it been conducted in the uk they'd have had to decamp to a zoo to find an operating table strong enough to hold her. this made me giggle

on topic. if people screw themselves up, they should deal with it. ie, no. same for smoker's lungs, drinker's liver, kidney etc etc.

-mist

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by Sunday8pm

I hope medical students are first in line with trynig any life saving operation on you given your lack of concern for it Mr. Drink Driver.

At least a Fat person isn't going to kill anyone but himself.

Never miss a trick, that's why we love you Sunday <3

[Rids]

Its possible to give up smoking, give up drinking, all be it with help.

You can never ever give up food.

[LHC]

True, but you can give up being a fat pie eating pie eater.

[Dace]

"Nobody likes a fatty"

[Madina]

I dont like the way that when i travel by plane i can only take the same luggage weight as the fatty infront of me that clearly weighs 5 stone more than me.

Also why arent their clothes more expensive? They use more material etc.

[mist]

Originally Posted by Madina

I dont like the way that when i travel by plane i can only take the same luggage weight as the fatty infront of me that clearly weighs 5 stone more than me.

Also why arent their clothes more expensive? They use more material etc.

if someone's fat they should be allowed less luggage weight and yet their clothes are heavier.

would this not just encourage naked and/or smellyer fat people?

-mist

[Mr_Blob]

Over weight people ultimatley put a long term strain on the health system, with heart disease, diabeaties and a range of other conditions. Further i read an article a few months ago saying that obease childrens brains were not fully developing because of the lack of nutrients in their diets and the body's growth and development being taken up by the growth of fat. It said their inteligence drops by 10-20% or so. We're breeding a generation of fat, lazy, stupid kids! Not to mention fat people breed fat kids so they're bound to multiply...... Its all downhill from here im afraid......

[Knight Theamion]

The Fatty Must Die


This is what their body is saying to them. Naturally speaking, they would be the one I would hunt down. Sometimes darwinism should be put into our society. I know I am not the perfect person, but I know that for all stupid things that I am fit and rather intelligent.
And on top of that I am cocky.
Lately I was in a discussion with my father and said to him that for a state a doctor is a better human being than a jobless fat bum. And that as a human being I also rate a doctor as a higher human being then a jobless fata bum. He tried to uphold the idea that all men are equal. To which I replied that that was a fiction of their imagination that they are only trying to treat everyone equal, while we are all different. And because we are all different, we can be measured against standards. And thus be rated differently.

In conclusion, I think the fat doctor is a lesser being then the physically fit docter.

[pig]

Originally Posted by Phalon

Yes, if they agree to spend several years in a third world country living off rice and typhoid infested water.

Just so they can see the other extreme of people not so 'fortunate'.

Seriously, unless there is some serious medical reason, 'addicted to food' doesn't count, then they should be made to 'repay' in some way.

Same goes for smokers and alcoholics.

ok firstly if they want to be fat let them, if they want surgery let them, but dont tell people how they should look and what they should do. I done suppose it has occured to you that eating healthily is expensive? If youre a single mother of 5, on benefits, how are you going to cook youre kids and yourself food, without buying the cheap crap they sell in asda which tastes ok, feeds the kids, ye it might make em fat, but at least they are living. You havent thought for a second perhaps that the peoples fault could lie within companies like walmart, that charge a shit load for fruit, veg and quality meats and force people with a low income to buy processed shit.

Smokers, as a smoker if myself and god knows how many people quit the disguisting habbit you realise the NHS would collaps, the tax alone covers smokers who go into hospitals and soooo much more for the NHS.

[Sunday8pm]

None of you are really helping madi at all here though.

That said for all of you chastising fatties right now, you'd not wish the same on smokers/drug users/alcohol consumers who all put more strain on the NHS than obese people, cause let's face it, that would be hypocritical...

I say in the sense of all things that are equal, you have to permit Obese people the permission to get this operation on the NHS as long as smokers are permitted treatment for smoking related diseases, Drug users are permitted treatment for drug related illnesses and diseases and hookers are permitted NHS treament for their illegal job related injuries and diseases.

If you want to argue for Obese people not deserving NHS treatment, then you have to argue against Hookers, Smokers, Drinkers and Drug Users not deserving NHS treatment.

The latter won't happen so I can't see how you can argue for the first at all.

[Mr_Blob]

If youre a single mother of 5, on benefits, how are you going to cook youre kids and yourself food, without buying the cheap crap they sell in asda which tastes ok

Dont get everyone started on single mothers! Maybe they should have closed their legs in the first place, then they wouldnt have had 5 ugly little half breeds that will turn out just like their mother. That being fat, lazy and stupid. In my country fresh food is cheaper then take away and processed garbage. It doesnt take much to buy bread, milk, vegis, pasta and mince. Its just that usually they're to lazy to cook and its easier to go to macca's or kfc.

I think alcohol consumption is a growing problem and it should be limited somehow. Alcohol is a major factor in a lot of social problems. People drink to much who cant handle it and they just act stupid.

My point that i want to make though is people who are over weight should exercise more. Simple!

[Sunday8pm]

Mr_Blob

The UK is a very very small country, as a result of this Agriculture that provides for our nations food needs is a very very small percentage. We resultingly have to import a lot of our fresh produce and fresh meat and other grain based food outside of baked bread. As you may well know Importing is expensive and hence increases the price of the goods. However Processed foods have long expiry dates on them and are easier to transport and manufacture in bulk, basically giving more bang for the buck for the corporations, this results in them becoming the predominantly cheap staple food source of the UK and that's the way it unfortuantely is.

UK is alas not in a position where it can sustain itself from catches of fish and agriculture and hence the price of the commodity has went up to reflect this. As a product of the welfare system for sometime I can confirm that the budget you are allowed to buy food with does not allow for teh reccomended 5 portions of fruit and veg a day.

With regards to single mothers, there is the CSA which is to hold the men who can't use a condom responsible for their actions, alas these men tend to either dodge the CSA or get more women pregnant than they can afford, surely castrating these men who can not provide for a family is the better option?

Alcohol consumption in the UK is indeed a massive problem that needs to be moderated, it's obscene how much people drink there, more than some people would drink on holiday from other countries, it's just the problem most of the UK won't admit too.

Finally in regards to making people who are overweight exercise more, I'm sure you are more than aware that the UK has the longest working week in all of europe, even longer if you account for all the unreported hours, there is nothing being done to stop this practice and as a result the recreational time during which people could exercise in is almost non-exsistant, especially at the low end NHS dependant scale of the spectrum.

Include the fact that the amount of recreational facilities available are few and far between and are often expensive to the point of excluding most of the population and that provides another problem. Home equipment to train with is expensive and furthermore the population density of the UK is getting ridiculous, green belts are being built on and there is little or nowhere left to exercise in the UK that isn't covered in concrete and aggressive teenagers and older reprobates on our undermanned police walked streets.

Given that every second or third report of a stabbing or a murder(of which their are a couple a week at least) was someone out walking their dog or jogging you can understand why perhaps people are reluctant to engage in probably the most simple and yet healthiest way of maintaining a decent body.

The streets and parks of the UK need to be made safer, Recreational facilities for exercising in need to become more numerous and avaialble to people of all ages and be able to provide for enough people at that, Working hours in the UK to stay above the poverty line needs to come down, the price of imported fresh foods that are the healthiest for our bodies need to come down in price and the prices of foods that carry an unacceptable amount of fat or salt levels need to get an extra tax.

Do all these and then you can complain about obese people getting services on the NHS to cure their obesity.

[madi]

Originally Posted by Sunday8pm

I think this is all trivial with regards to the article posted above.

It doesn't sound like the NHS should be adopting a surgery with such inherent post op risks that could leave them liable.

they already do
how do you think i am counting them if they havent been done

[Sunday8pm]

Originally Posted by madi

they already do
how do you think i am counting them if they havent been done

Well you might want to take into consideration the uptake in these operations should you allow obese people to get this operation free on the NHS and the news goes public it'll increase the chances.

Perhaps your study should say that they should review this when the procedures involved are more secure and perhaps cheaper and easier to do... sounds like it needs a lot of infrastructure.

[Mr_Blob]

The UK is a very very small country, as a result of this Agriculture that provides for our nations food needs is a very very small percentage. We resultingly have to import a lot of our fresh produce and fresh meat and other grain based food outside of baked bread. As you may well know Importing is expensive and hence increases the price of the goods. However Processed foods have long expiry dates on them and are easier to transport and manufacture in bulk, basically giving more bang for the buck for the corporations, this results in them becoming the predominantly cheap staple food source of the UK and that's the way it unfortuantely is.

So what your saying is poor people cant afford to eat healthy food. I bet you those same poor people can afford to buy cigerettes and alcohol. They bring their misery on themselves. You're just a sucker for feeling pity for them.

[Sunday8pm]

Originally Posted by Mr_Blob

So what your saying is poor people cant afford to eat healthy food. I bet you those same poor people can afford to buy cigerettes and alcohol. They bring their misery on themselves. You're just a sucker for feeling pity for them.

Thanks for making a sweeping generalisations, you'll locate irrational bigoted arguments in the DF3 forums, move along.

(Seriously not every person on or below the poverty line also has a drink or smoking or both problem, I came from a single mother family where my mother did not have either a drinking or a smoking problem, however the facts remain that you either starve trying to eat healthily or you get fat eating unhealthily, I was 6 and a half stone and 6 foot by the age of 16 thanks to welfare.)

(furthermore I can testify at having to queue with the rest of the children on welfare for free school dinners that our quere were either made up of mentally deficient obese kids or skinny smart yet undermined kids.)

p.s. I've just noticed in another thread you seem awfully bitter about the australian spending on Welfare, this is the UK we are talking about, your generalisations there don't apply over in the UK, I reccomend leaving the emotional baggage about where your tax dollars maybe going at the door and actually contribute constructive replies to the thread.

[madi]

Originally Posted by Sunday8pm

Well you might want to take into consideration the uptake in these operations should you allow obese people to get this operation free on the NHS and the news goes public it'll increase the chances.

Perhaps your study should say that they should review this when the procedures involved are more secure and perhaps cheaper and easier to do... sounds like it needs a lot of infrastructure.

it is currently free on the NHS (they sew your stomach in half or bypass bits of tubes) you just need to get your GP to refer you the same as for anything
it is as public knowledge if you are hugely overweight your doctor will probably have told you about it
its a fairly common procedure (my hospital does about half a dozen a month)

(like NHS boob jobs and ivf there is lots of screening and suitability tests
and you have to be under a certain BMI for it to be safe to be knocked out)

[Summanus]

madi just hates fat people

well one day, the fat people of britain will rise up and slay their thin oppressors!