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Unread 9 Dec 2015, 20:24   #1
BloodyButcher
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BB stats r65(again)

http://beta.planetarion.com/manual.pl?page=stats
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Unread 9 Dec 2015, 20:50   #2
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

You know they will never use your stats because thats not how they play favorites.
Bravo for keeping on trying but its a waste.
Lop sided BS stats is the way of PA.

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Unread 10 Dec 2015, 00:17   #3
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Fleet matchups:

Ter Fr Can not Roid other Terrans Solo
Ter Fr Maybe can roid Cath but 2x targeted at T1 with 160% eff
Ter Fr Can not roid Xan Pulsar same init, def always wins
Ter Fr Can Not roid Zik http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=76uf81r61mm42bt
Ter Fr Can not roid Etd http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=3ncoptxx47aqfdy


Ter Bs Can not roid Terran unless 1 sided fleet http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=01b98qwl3jgvf3w
Ter Bs CAN roid Cath T1 is 145-155
Ter Bs Can not roid Xan
Ter Bs Can not Roid Zik http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=80f52fc27n6sekb
Ter Bs Can not roid Etd http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=krupbjzimnk4dpd

To sum up, Ter can ONLY roid Cath solo.


Cath

Cath Co Can roid Ter http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=7iiw02crosbhx5r
Cath Co Can roid Cath
Cath Co can roid Xan Fi, but not Xan fr/de http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=tjstpzmsseozm0k
Cath Co Can NOT roid Zik http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=enojdiz60lf23t1
Cath Co Can Roid Etd Co but not De http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=486tigw9b9socn2

Cath De Can not Roid Ter
Cath De Can Not roid Cath http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=dtnvcoi1rkmd0sv
Cath De Can Roid Xan http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=5pa2gzpe45kdcvd
Cat De Can Not Roid Zik
Cath De Can Not roid Etd

Cath Cr Can NOT roid Ter
Cath Cr can Roid Cath
Cath Cr Can NOT roid Xan
Cath Cr Can NOT roid Zik http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=t0zprz61clqv618
Cath Cr Can NOT roid Etd


So lets sum it up. Cath Co Can roid most, Cat De cant roid anything, Cath Cr roids 50%.

Xan

Xan Fi Can Roid fi/co Terran, Can NOT roid Ter Fr http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=g9oa66edb0l3ear
Xan Fi Can NOT roid Cath
Xan Fi Can NOT roid Xan same init vs De and lower Eta vs Fr
Xan Fi can Roid Zik Co but bloody, can not roid Zik Fr
Xan Fi can NOT roid Etd http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=69tak8nnjbrgtw4


Xan Fr Can roid Fi based Ter, Can NOT roid Ter Bs/cr http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=180y9js5w1bd1hv
Xan Fr Can Roid Cath http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=43mfe3ka1nta6rr
Xan Fr Can Not roid Xan http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=p9ug1ljnjpuabsl
Xan Fr Can Not roid Zik http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=0gp97r2gjhzkl7o
Xan Fr Can Not roid Etd Co or Cr, but can roid etd Bs

Xan De Can NOT roid Ter http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=6lkv9dzs38t96lz
Xan De Can roid Cath Co, not Cath cr
Xan De Can Not roid Xan http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=pw85wf55eqryk9m
Xan De Can Not roid zik
Xan De Can Not roid Etd Co or Cr but can Etd Bs

To sum up. Xan Fi can only roid 2 races if they build a specific way, Xan fr can only roid Cath and Xan De can only roid Cath co or Ed Bs.


Zik

Zik Co can not roid Ter http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=xy69gzbh1ge5a95
Zik Co Can roid Cath http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=6po5rkdm51nptfm
Zik Co Can not roid Xan fi but can roid xan fr/de http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=ijet6jf0fmtn3za
Zik Co Can not roid Zik http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=uq81qmua1fmh0ot
Zik Co Can roid Etd http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=9tcyz3zxxy2xb59


Zik Fr Can not roid Ter http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=16u24sfcctvjv4l
Zik Fr Can roid Cath http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=0p75ugwzsec5kp6
Zik Fr Can Not roid Xan http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=hzqmypse6psaruh
Zik Fr Can Not roid Zik http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=uv13fme0ci8y4k1
Zik Fr Can roid Etd Co/Bs but not Etd Cr http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=rr6j8c9jo10l3o1


Zik Bs Can roid Ter http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=dh7p8ix56h929yl
Zik Bs Can Roid Cath http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=fsnmxg8c6pj7mc8
Zik Bs Can roid Xan Fr but not Xan De http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=fj1cns79b94a5hr
Zik Bs Can NOT roid Zik http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=g8v6efad1vw0qxj
Zik Bs Can Not roid Etd http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=rwlnwiw9fwszp9w


There are SO many thing that need to be fixed with Zik, Too much value gain, easy to Farm and Roids most fleets.

Etd

Etd Co Can roid Fi based Ter, but not Ter fr http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=g7jfbkaa5jj04ac
Etd Co Can Roid Cath http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=4yyaytjsbvc4lyj
Etd Co Can Roid Xan http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=xcpyesbu9f4ldsx
Etd Can not roid Zik
Etd Ca roid Etd http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=0hyy00iknsvl0d8

Etd De Can not roid Ter http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=l7gyd0lid4mb1dt
Etd De Can roid Cath Co. but not Cath Cr http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=19cg7qsmzqxrouo
Etd De Can Not roid Xan http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=uzhvd2nkzjv6um9
Etd De Can Not roid Zik http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=rbe3qyct484lnrc
Etd De Can Not roid Etd Co/Cr but can roid Etd Bs http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=xgjc24tuueklr3c

Etd Cr Can roid Ter Fr but not Ter Bs http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=wd1uf99k50dhraw
Etd Cr can roid Cath http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=i735t1wazijcdmi
Etd Cr Can roid Xan Fr but not Xan De http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=1a121upt6tc56gp
Etd Cr Can Roid Zik fr but not Xik Bs http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=o2gc5al6xvry3d6
Etd Cr Can Not Roid Etd http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=td9ojswzej6mjve

Etd Bs Can not roid Ter http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=nq4hoy4yuq9i35m
Etd Bs Can Roid Cath http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=fwr5rpnsa1ckes0
Etd Bs Can Not Roid Xan http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=psk27dw5uj4mq5a
Etd Bs Can Not roid Zik http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=3rnus1gsm6al2j6
Etd Bs Can Not roid Etd http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=r8drl9pcu479qaj


To Sum up, Etd Co can roid most, Etd De Cant roid anything except Cath Co, Etd Cr is very strong and etd Bs cant roid much.


Lots of things to Fix, I don't even want to get started with the Class Distribution. Too many Co, Fr

EDIT: Realized after finishing post that the Beta Server still has Zik no-loss stealing.
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Last edited by Tiamat101; 10 Dec 2015 at 00:24.
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Unread 10 Dec 2015, 03:55   #4
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Fleet matchups:

Ter FR can not roid other terrans with hull3 solo. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=n6ls5hpzmd37r2a
Now the question would be wether to go for BS or war cruisers as terran anti FR/DE.

Ter FR "struggle" to be cat CO/CR EMP. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=23uo1nkygqe0agm
Cat DE will have bigger issues vs FR.

Ter FR can not roid xan pulsar(only anti FR) same init, red calcs.

Ter FR struggle roid zik FR. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=00ch4xmutub44x8
Ter FR can not roid zik BS. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=4qjn2uze5gnq9ry

Ter FR can not roid etd CO. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=py40l8ir0emjdjv
Ter FR can not roid etd CR. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=k7y3b0kaq1ngkqp
Ter FR "struggle" to etd BS EMP. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=tip9jqdu8qb82bh
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Unread 10 Dec 2015, 04:15   #5
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Xan FR is "decent" vs ter FR. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=vtkt6tc8e1pl8ku
Xan FR can not roid ter BS. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=n90wadyyry7pjr7

Xan FR is decent vs cat CO/CR. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=kj5jipvhlpmz57d

Xan FR will struggle vs xan FR/DE planets. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=qmdl3la0x230ntp

Xan FR struggle vs zik FR. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=briefqmlcp2v22o
Xan FR can not roid zik BS. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=rikw3jxe6tdrfzl

Xan FR can not roid etd CO. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=ry4p2h6ztdz2b02
Xan FR can not roid etd CR. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=x12su628o4wm1zy
Xan FR "struggle" vs ETD BS.
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Unread 10 Dec 2015, 07:04   #6
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

After what happend last round, it seems slightly silly to still spend time on this.
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Unread 10 Dec 2015, 07:23   #7
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shhhhhhh View Post
After what happend last round, it seems slightly silly to still spend time on this.
Enlight us please
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Unread 10 Dec 2015, 07:58   #8
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

No one will build war cr they will use bs or fi co. Which xan fr can't handle.
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Unread 10 Dec 2015, 09:41   #9
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Problems:
Xan has too many roiding fleets.
Xan effs are too high.
Too many ships across the board, making this set very defensive.
Zik Fr has no EMP teamup partner, which seems strange considering the number of roiding fleets.
Ter needs a Harpy.
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Unread 10 Dec 2015, 12:08   #10
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

no.
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Unread 10 Dec 2015, 13:09   #11
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

no.
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Unread 10 Dec 2015, 13:27   #12
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Problems:
Xan has too many roiding fleets.
Xan effs are too high.
Too many ships across the board, making this set very defensive.
Zik Fr has no EMP teamup partner, which seems strange considering the number of roiding fleets.
Ter needs a Harpy.
Tiamata says Xan are unplayable/too weak, i was considering buffing xan.

More ST ships, more ships per race.
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Unread 10 Dec 2015, 14:22   #13
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Sigh where to begin ...

Only decent roiding fleets are xan frig and cath co/de .... etd bs is ok but I hate emp attack ships that dont get first cut in

any other roiding fleet has 1 fleet stoppers as defence options

No scope to fake meta classes

How much consideration was put into these stats and also explain how are these stats are fun?
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Unread 10 Dec 2015, 18:00   #14
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
Sigh where to begin ...

Only decent roiding fleets are xan frig and cath co/de .... etd bs is ok but I hate emp attack ships that dont get first cut in

any other roiding fleet has 1 fleet stoppers as defence options

No scope to fake meta classes

How much consideration was put into these stats and also explain how are these stats are fun?
Well the whole idea is to have teamups.... So yes, most races will be stopped without too much hassle unless you _team up_ on attacks.
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Unread 10 Dec 2015, 18:02   #15
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Ugh, too many ships.
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Unread 10 Dec 2015, 18:12   #16
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Well the whole idea is to have teamups.... So yes, most races will be stopped without too much hassle unless you _team up_ on attacks.
Humour me what alliance strategies do these present and what alliance HCs will likely pick as their strategy
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Unread 10 Dec 2015, 18:22   #17
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

http://beta.planetarion.com/history/...?id=4&round=30
http://beta.planetarion.com/history/...?id=4&round=51

Similiar looking stats. Now ive removed in-class-targetting because i belived that is more deffenesive
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Unread 10 Dec 2015, 20:32   #18
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Well the whole idea is to have teamups.... So yes, most races will be stopped without too much hassle unless you _team up_ on attacks.
Most classes and races will be stopped without much hassle even with team ups.

Also forcing players to have partners through stats is just B A D. If you or your partner(s) are unavailable for attack/defence due to unknown curcumstances, then more than one will most likely have to idle fleets due to lack of potensial targets. This will particulary affect smaller tags big time.
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Unread 10 Dec 2015, 21:14   #19
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoDD View Post
Also forcing players to have partners through stats is just B A D. If you or your partner(s) are unavailable for attack/defence due to unknown curcumstances, then more than one will most likely have to idle fleets due to lack of potensial targets. This will particulary affect smaller tags big time.
How are you gonna work out stats wich dosnt require team up partners?
Im just curious...
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Unread 10 Dec 2015, 21:37   #20
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
How are you gonna work out stats wich dosnt require team up partners?
Im just curious...
That's not what he said. Your stats REQUIRES team up to even be effective, where as good stats Team ups are good but not required. Your set atm has too any holes and it has a lot to do with number of ships and the targeting on these ships. As i pointed out in #beta.

4 Fi ships
Fi targeted 8 times
8 Co ships
Co targeted 11 times
9 Fr ships
Fr Targeted 11 times
7 de ships
De targeted 10 times
7 Cr ships
Cr targeted 13 times
8 Bs ships
Bs targeted 9 times

1 Fi pod
2 Co pods
3 Fr pods
1 De pod
2 Cr pod
3 Bs pod

You try and tell me thats not sckewed in anyway.
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Unread 10 Dec 2015, 22:42   #21
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
http://beta.planetarion.com/history/...?id=4&round=30
http://beta.planetarion.com/history/...?id=4&round=51

Similiar looking stats. Now ive removed in-class-targetting because i belived that is more deffenesive
but have you considered looking at stats like r14 and r42? etc
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Unread 10 Dec 2015, 22:54   #22
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

The r51 stats were not exactly a high point in stats making. I would recommend against using them as a template.
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Unread 10 Dec 2015, 23:42   #23
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
The r51 stats were not exactly a high point in stats making. I would recommend against using them as a template.
What is a good template then? And if you say R50, R52, or R64 im sure the whole strategy forum will go into a meltdown. Or if you mentione the worst stats ever, R60, i will go into a meltdown.
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Unread 11 Dec 2015, 00:15   #24
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

R55 has pretty normal stats to take a template from. Not saying the stats were perfect but its a good template.
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Unread 11 Dec 2015, 00:46   #25
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
R55 has pretty normal stats to take a template from. Not saying the stats were perfect but its a good template.
R55 was pretty horific stats? iirc, it was one build wins it all.

1 ETD in top100, 10 XAN. Rest was ZIK/TER FR forting + CAT rank whores.
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Unread 11 Dec 2015, 01:08   #26
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
but have you considered looking at stats like r14 and r42? etc
ST stats? no.
We have tried that, and im sure most people disliked it.
THOUGH YOU COULD SOLO, so i guess theodd loved em.
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Unread 11 Dec 2015, 01:39   #27
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
ST stats? no.
We have tried that, and im sure most people disliked it.
THOUGH YOU COULD SOLO, so i guess theodd loved em.
The roiding mechanisms .... im not saying going ST im saying get the basics right then add t2 and even t3 apon a good foundation.

also they are examples on how you can fake meta classes ie r42 zik cr and de you could easily fake de as cr on xan etc. (make stats fun as much as possible)

you've got a week or 2 to experiment make the most of the time trying shit out.

Please make the most of it.
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Unread 11 Dec 2015, 03:38   #28
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

You should be able to solo. The forced team-ups are just as bad for the game as every alliance fort avoiding for the first 800 ticks.

we have 200-350 players that are actually playing. Half of those players actually give a crap.

Tell me again why stats that require and promote waves of 4-5 fleets on 300 roid planets at tick 200 are good for the game?
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Unread 11 Dec 2015, 04:12   #29
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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You should be able to solo. The forced team-ups are just as bad for the game as every alliance fort avoiding for the first 800 ticks.

we have 200-350 players that are actually playing. Half of those players actually give a crap.

Tell me again why stats that require and promote waves of 4-5 fleets on 300 roid planets at tick 200 are good for the game?
<---- This right here. This is the reason BB that we cant play your stats, and why we havent for 4 rounds.
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Unread 11 Dec 2015, 04:25   #30
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Papadoc View Post
You should be able to solo. The forced team-ups are just as bad for the game as every alliance fort avoiding for the first 800 ticks.

we have 200-350 players that are actually playing. Half of those players actually give a crap.

Tell me again why stats that require and promote waves of 4-5 fleets on 300 roid planets at tick 200 are good for the game?
Tell me then a stat set that this was possibole, and a stat set wich wasnt completely one-sided crap.
Tiamata think R55 was good set.
Mz think R60 was a good set.
Yeah, sure you could prolly solo with every race out there, but what does it matter when the alliance HCs that are picking strategies sees the same obvious flaw in the set?

http://beta.planetarion.com/history/...?id=4&round=55
Lets use this epic set as an example then:

Xan FI can solo Terran FR, but not Zik FR. Xan FI cant attack Terran forted players, or any terran wich got a Zik planet nearby. FAIL
Xan DE can solo Zik FR planets, but not Terran FR(Wyvern). Same logic, Xan DE cant attack zik/ter planets.

ETD BS cant attack Terran, neither can TER BS. ETD DE cant attack TER.

So we have ruled out xan/etd as viable options for any allie strat vs zik/ter forts.
So that leaves you with one option only, ZIK/TER heavy allies. It means jacksh*t that ETD/XAN can solo each other with no problem, IT MEANS NOTHING AT ALL!

If you only aim the balance race vs race, you are destined for failure, and the univers will be ruled by "wombo-combos". Unless the statsmakers start focusing on building sets around the alliances out there, instead of blaming the alliances for when their sets fail, we will end up in a downward spiral.
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Unread 11 Dec 2015, 05:04   #31
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Go Xan, land 2/3 fakes out of protection and play Sim-Tarion the rest of the round like I do?

**** if I know what the answer is, but stop trying to re-invent the wheel on stats.

Everyone just go Cath and problem sovled...r2 Theives and Pirates...r3 Ghost/Warfrig/Cargoship...numbers win, EOD. At that point, stats are "balanced", and the "Alliance" or "block" issue is all that remains.

Play a round like that, then complain about stats. Or "politics". Or Tag size.
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Unread 11 Dec 2015, 13:45   #32
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
What is a good template then? And if you say R50, R52, or R64 im sure the whole strategy forum will go into a meltdown. Or if you mentione the worst stats ever, R60, i will go into a meltdown.
Sure, r50 is a good template. I'm not saying that because I made them, I made the r51 stats and I have no problem slamming those.

I will repeat what Tia said: they are a template. That doesn't mean you should straight up copy the the r50 stats, or even use them as a starting point for new stats. I'm sayin that if you look at the high level design of the r50 stats and try to make something similar, you're well on you way to making something good. Go hybrid-ST/MT, don't make too many ships, give Zik reasonable teamups, ensure solo attack fleets are viable, don't make them too defensive.

From a cursory look, your stats don't have any of these properties. That doesn't mean your stats are bad, and unlike others, I'm not saying they are. I made some comments about aspects I think could and should be improved. If you choose to ignore constructive criticism, that's fine with me, I'm not particularly bothered. Just stop acting surprised when your stats aren't chosen if you once again ignore all feedback.

(Stay away from large cost discrepancies inside classes, though.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Mz think R60 was a good set.
And stop lying.
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Unread 11 Dec 2015, 14:43   #33
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Well wouldnt it just make stats offensive by just lowering all damage and increasing all armor? 0_o
Everyone can land pretty cheap
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Unread 11 Dec 2015, 15:12   #34
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

I am not convinced that raising armor and lowering damage across the board (or vice versa) has much impact on the offensive or defensive nature of the stats. It's possible that it does, but I haven't seen a clear example of it in action. If anyone can be bothered, see what happens to bcalcs if you take a fairly balanced set of stats and globally modify their effs in either direction. I'd be interested in hearing the results!

Three things off the top of my head that definitely do affect it:

1) The amount of T2 and T3. The more T2 and T3 there is, the more of each planet's value fires at any specific class. At one end of the spectrum, if I have 1 ship that fires on all classes, then (ignoring T2/T3 inefficiencies for the moment) 100% of my value fires at each classes. On the other end, if I have 6 ships that each only have a T1, then only one sixth of my value fires on each class. The higher the fraction of my value fires at a/any class, the harder it is for that/any class to roid me/anyone, and the more value is needed to punch through. The more value is needed to roid people, the more defensive the stats are.

2) Number of ships. Ships need to be useful. If they aren't, there's no point having them. Usefulness comes in 2 categories: helps me roid people, stops people from roiding me (and there's overlap, of course). I don't usually care about having a lot of different methods of roiding people, because 3 small roiding fleets are less effective than 1 big OHKO fleet. That means most of my ships are defensive in nature. The more useful defensive ships there are, the fewer gaps there are in people's defense, the harder it is to roid them, the more defensive the stats are.

3) Number of interactions between classes. If each class fires at each class, then everyone can focus all their value in 1 class. If the stats are balanced, people will more or less pick each class equally, forcing everyone to defend against each class with an equal amount of value. If I have all my value in 1 class, then an attacker needs to kill a large proportion of my value to be able to land. However, since attackers also need to cover all classes from 1 class, what actually happens is that they can only have one sixth of their fleet firing at my 1 class. A single defense fleet does the rest. You want to send attacks such that your target needs more than 1 defense fleet to stop you, otherwise you're not being efficient. See also my '3 small roiding fleets vs 1 big one' comment above. This prevents people from roiding near their own value, increasing the defensiveness of the stats. I know this seems to contradict point 1. The difference is that here, all my value is in 1 class, whereas in point 1, it's spread among multiple classes.
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Unread 11 Dec 2015, 19:39   #35
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

BB Take r55 stats, take out init/dmg/armor/mcost/ccost/ecost/empres/guns and start from there.
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Unread 12 Dec 2015, 17:28   #36
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Well the whole idea is to have teamups.... So yes, most races will be stopped without too much hassle unless you _team up_ on attacks.
As I mentioned a couple of rounds back, this is not a good principle on which to base stats.
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Unread 17 Dec 2015, 08:38   #37
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

So, ive fixed a lot of AC - DC.
Ive changed a few targetting(T1/T2).
By popular demand, damage has been lowered, armor has been raised with the goal to make calcs less red for the attacker.

Lets go again.
Basis of the calcs are 66% in attack fleets, 33% for defence.
Say you are Ter FR, then your attack fleet will cover 4/6 classes, and your defence fleet will have to cover the remaining two(FR/DE).
The attack fleet will be divided equaly over the ships in roidclass, the defence fleet will be divided equaly to cover what the attack fleet does not cover.
You can argue that the build in the calcs are not the most efficient ones, but please be my guest to suggest them in here so i can continue trying to balance.

-------------------------------
Fleet matchups:

Ter FR can not roid other terrans with hull3 solo. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=n6ls5hpzmd37r2a

Ter FR beat cat CR, struggle cat CO EMP. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=x0vifjnhwr5ehn5
Cat DE will more or less be the same calcs.

Ter FR can not roid xan pulsar(only anti FR) same init, red calcs.

Ter FR struggle to roid zik FR. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=aflto7icnssmasw
Ter FR can not roid zik BS. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=89j7dd9s0xxv3bt

Ter FR struggle roid etd CO. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=1v30av3nm4sjpvg
Ter FR can not roid etd CR. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=gk1tpv87gzc2wgr
Ter FR cannot to beat etd BS EMP. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=kq12tukonvom0iz

Ter FR can solo:

Cat CO/DE/CR

Ter FR struggle:

Zik FR
Etd CO
Cat CO

Ter FR cannot solo:

Ter
Xan
Zik BS
Etd CR/BS

-------------------------------

Please feel free to comment, and ill start preparing calcs for the other "fleet options"
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Unread 17 Dec 2015, 11:17   #38
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Ter BS struggle vs Ter FR http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=4ilzocr85i8tl54
Ter BS can roid Ter BS

Ter BS can roid Cat CO and Cat DE http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=foz223tmiy26tjz
Ter BS can roid Cat CR http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=ykc3x84zd3huufl

Ter BS struggle vs Xan http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=na0ghf2aw9pedtu

Ter BS struggle vs Zik FR/BS http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=ivoxyze4g0cjtot


Ter BS can roid Etd CO depending on build http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=rfuwj7o5qq09ur4
Ter BS cannot roid Etd CR http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=tiissdcmniqe3oy
Ter BS cannot roid Etd BS(buildinging lancers)

----------------

Ter BS can solo:

Cat CO/DE/CR
Etd CO
Ter BS
Xan DE

Ter BS struggle:

Ter FR
Xan FI/FR
Zik FR/BS

Ter BS cannot solo:

Etd CR
Etd BS
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Unread 17 Dec 2015, 15:16   #39
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Fleet matchups:

Xan FI struggle vs Ter FR http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=wgbzuk5cuxz2n1h
Xan FI can land vs Ter BS http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=g36uer0td13bpu7

Xan FI can land Cat CO http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=l960ds04bwr9ufo
Xan FI can land Cat DE http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=08mh92grrhs26ae
Xan FI can land Cat CR

Xan FI struggle to land Xan FI
Xan FI cannot land Xan FR
Xan FI cannot land Xan DE

Xan FI struggle to roid zik FR. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=cxk7a532nd8eeyl
Xan FI can land Zik BS

Xan FI can land ETD CO
Xan FI can land ETD CR
Xan FI can land ETD BS

----------------

Xan FI can solo:

Cat CO/DE/CR
Etd CO/CR/BS
Zik BS


Xan FI struggle:

Ter FR
Xan FI
Zik FR

Xan FI cannot solo:

Xan FR/DE
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Unread 18 Dec 2015, 03:10   #40
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Fleet matchups:

Xan FR struggle roid other terrans with hull3 solo. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=1hk4qvn00njxauo

Xan FR beat cat CR, cannot cat CO EMP. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=y2pbcm5ox6xf31l
Cat DE will more or less be the same calcs.

Xan FR struggle to roid Xan planets. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=1u85wtunmmo27xq

Xan FR can not roid zik FR.
Xan FR can not roid zik BS. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=wgcq3m1lrkn0srd

Xan FR can not roid etd CO. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=dgffkwg9vcep601
Xan FR can not roid etd CR. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=mbj6b03dlp7ie1r
Xan FR can not to beat etd BS EMP.

Xan FR can solo:

Cat CR

Xan FR struggle:

Ter planets
Xan planets

Xan FR cannot solo:

Zik FR/BS
ETD CO/CR/BS
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Unread 19 Dec 2015, 15:10   #41
BloodyButcher
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Run through the mz calculator:
These are not to be taken too seriously


Ter Fr does not roid Ter:
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Interceptor: Centaur has init 5, Interceptor has init 8
- Defender War Cruiser beats attacker Drake: War Cruiser has init 5, Drake has init 7
- Defender Dragon beats attacker Chimera: Dragon has init 5, Chimera has init 7
Ter Fr roids Cat:
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Viper: Centaur is Ter and resists EMP
- Attacker Drake beats defender Tarantula: Drake is Ter and resists EMP
Ter Fr does not roid Xan:
- Defender Pulsar beats attacker Centaur: Both sides fire at init 5, but Pulsar uses t1, while Centaur uses t2
Ter Fr roids Zik:
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Dagger: Centaur has init 5, Dagger has init 8
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Corsair: Centaur has init 5, Corsair has init 18
- Attacker Chimera beats defender Pirate: Chimera has init 7, Pirate has init 19
Ter Fr roids Etd:
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Smuggler: Centaur has init 5, Smuggler has init 20
- Attacker Drake beats defender Marauder: Drake has init 7, Marauder has init 20
- Attacker Chimera beats defender Avenger: Chimera is Ter and resists EMP

Running simple check for Ter Bs...
Ter Bs roids Ter:
- Attacker Dragon beats defender Chimera: Dragon has init 5, Chimera has init 7
Ter Bs roids Cat:
- Attacker Dreadnought beats defender Roach: Dreadnought is Ter and resists EMP
- Attacker Dreadnought beats defender Scorpion: Dreadnought is Ter and resists EMP
Ter Bs does not roid Xan:
- Defender Fireblade beats attacker Dragon: Fireblade has init 4, Dragon has init 5
- Attacker Dreadnought beats defender Broadsword: Dreadnought has init 5, Broadsword has init 6
Ter Bs roids Zik:
- Attacker Dragon beats defender Cutter: Dragon has init 5, Cutter has init 18
- Attacker Dreadnought beats defender Buccaneer: Both sides fire at init 5, but Dreadnought uses t1, while Buccaneer uses t2
[color=red]Ter Bs does not roid Etd:
- Defender Lancer beats attacker Dragon: Both sides fire at init 5, but Lancer uses t1, while Dragon uses t1
- Attacker Dreadnought beats defender Ghost: Dreadnought has init 5, Ghost has init 6
- Attacker Dreadnought beats defender Devastator: Dreadnought has init 5, Devastator has init 7

Running simple check for Cat Co...
Cat Co does not roid Ter:
- Defender Interceptor beats attacker Beetle: Interceptor is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Centaur beats attacker Viper: Centaur is Ter and resists EMP
Cat Co does not roid Cat:
- Defender Beetle beats attacker Beetle: Both sides fire at init 1, but Beetle uses t2, while Beetle uses t2
- Defender Black Widow beats attacker Viper: Black Widow has init 1, Viper has init 2
Cat Co roids Xan:
- Attacker Beetle beats defender Vsharrak: Beetle has init 1, Vsharrak has init 6
- Attacker Viper beats defender Tzen: Viper has init 2, Tzen has init 4
- Attacker Viper beats defender Shadow: Viper has init 2, Shadow has init 6
Cat Co roids Zik:
- Attacker Beetle beats defender Cutlass: Beetle has init 1, Cutlass has init 18
- Attacker Viper beats defender Thief: Viper has init 2, Thief has init 19
Cat Co does not roid Etd:
- Defender Defender beats attacker Beetle: Both sides fire at init 1, but Defender uses t2, while Beetle uses t2
- Attacker Viper beats defender Pegasus: Viper has init 2, Pegasus has init 4

Running simple check for Cat De...
Cat De does not roid Ter:
- Defender Torpedo beats attacker Black Widow: Torpedo is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender War Cruiser beats attacker Roach: War Cruiser is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Dreadnought beats attacker Roach: Dreadnought is Ter and resists EMP
Cat De does not roid Cat:
- Attacker Black Widow beats defender Viper: Black Widow has init 1, Viper has init 2
- Defender Tarantula beats attacker Roach: Tarantula has init 1, Roach has init 2
- Attacker Roach beats defender Mantis: Roach has init 2, Mantis has init 6
Cat De roids Xan:
- Attacker Black Widow beats defender Vsharrak: Black Widow has init 1, Vsharrak has init 6
Cat De roids Zik:
- Attacker Black Widow beats defender Corsair: Black Widow has init 1, Corsair has init 18
- Attacker Roach beats defender Clipper: Roach has init 2, Clipper has init 17
- Attacker Roach beats defender Man O War: Roach has init 2, Man O War has init 8
Cat De roids Etd:
- Attacker Black Widow beats defender Smuggler: Black Widow has init 1, Smuggler has init 20
- Attacker Roach beats defender Marauder: Roach has init 2, Marauder has init 20
- Attacker Roach beats defender Avenger: Roach has init 2, Avenger has init 3

Running simple check for Cat Cr...
Cat Cr does not roid Ter:
- Defender Drake beats attacker Tarantula: Drake is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Dreadnought beats attacker Scorpion: Dreadnought is Ter and resists EMP
Cat Cr roids Cat:
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Roach: Tarantula has init 1, Roach has init 2
- Defender Roach beats attacker Mantis: Roach has init 2, Mantis has init 6
- Attacker Scorpion beats defender Guardian: Scorpion has init 1, Guardian has init 20
Cat Cr roids Xan:
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Bomber: Tarantula has init 1, Bomber has init 4
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Broadsword: Tarantula has init 1, Broadsword has init 6
- Attacker Mantis beats defender Broadsword: Both sides fire at init 6, but Mantis uses t1, while Broadsword uses t2
- Attacker Scorpion beats defender Peacekeeper: Scorpion has init 1, Peacekeeper has init 5
Cat Cr roids Zik:
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Cutter: Tarantula has init 1, Cutter has init 18
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Buccaneer: Tarantula has init 1, Buccaneer has init 5
- Defender Buccaneer beats attacker Mantis: Buccaneer has init 5, Mantis has init 6
- Attacker Scorpion beats defender Man O War: Scorpion has init 1, Man O War has init 8
Cat Cr roids Etd:
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Lancer: Tarantula has init 1, Lancer has init 5
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Ghost: Tarantula has init 1, Ghost has init 6
- Defender Ghost beats attacker Mantis: Both sides fire at init 6, but Ghost uses t1, while Mantis uses t1
- Attacker Scorpion beats defender Predator: Scorpion has init 1, Predator has init 5

Running simple check for Xan Fi...
Xan Fi roids Ter:
- Attacker Vsharrak beats defender Torpedo: Vsharrak has init 6, Torpedo has init 7
- Attacker Pulsar beats defender Centaur: Both sides fire at init 5, but Pulsar uses t1, while Centaur uses t2
Xan Fi does not roid Cat:
- Defender Beetle beats attacker Vsharrak: Beetle has init 1, Vsharrak has init 6
- Defender Black Widow beats attacker Vsharrak: Black Widow has init 1, Vsharrak has init 6
Xan Fi does not roid Xan:
- Attacker Vsharrak beats defender Phantom: Vsharrak has init 6, Phantom has init 7
- Defender Tzen beats attacker Pulsar: Tzen has init 4, Pulsar has init 5
- Defender Shadow beats attacker Vsharrak: Both sides fire at init 6, but Shadow uses t2, while Vsharrak uses t2
Xan Fi roids Zik:
- Attacker Vsharrak beats defender Cutlass: Vsharrak has init 6, Cutlass has init 18
- Attacker Pulsar beats defender Thief: Pulsar has init 5, Thief has init 19
Xan Fi does not roid Etd:
- Defender Defender beats attacker Vsharrak: Defender has init 1, Vsharrak has init 6

Running simple check for Xan Fr...
Xan Fr roids Ter:
- Attacker Tzen beats defender Interceptor: Tzen has init 4, Interceptor has init 8
- Attacker Bomber beats defender War Cruiser: Bomber has init 4, War Cruiser has init 5
- Attacker Fireblade beats defender Dragon: Fireblade has init 4, Dragon has init 5
Xan Fr does not roid Cat:
- Defender Viper beats attacker Tzen: Viper has init 2, Tzen has init 4
- Defender Tarantula beats attacker Bomber: Tarantula has init 1, Bomber has init 4
Xan Fr roids Xan:
- Attacker Tzen beats defender Pulsar: Tzen has init 4, Pulsar has init 5
Xan Fr roids Zik:
- Attacker Tzen beats defender Dagger: Tzen has init 4, Dagger has init 8
- Attacker Tzen beats defender Corsair: Tzen has init 4, Corsair has init 18
- Attacker Fireblade beats defender Pirate: Fireblade has init 4, Pirate has init 19
Xan Fr does not roid Etd:
- Attacker Tzen beats defender Smuggler: Tzen has init 4, Smuggler has init 20
- Attacker Bomber beats defender Marauder: Bomber has init 4, Marauder has init 20
- Defender Avenger beats attacker Fireblade: Avenger has init 3, Fireblade has init 4

Running simple check for Xan De...
Xan De does not roid Ter:
- Attacker Shadow beats defender Torpedo: Shadow has init 6, Torpedo has init 7
- Defender War Cruiser beats attacker Broadsword: War Cruiser has init 5, Broadsword has init 6
- Defender Dreadnought beats attacker Broadsword: Dreadnought has init 5, Broadsword has init 6
Xan De does not roid Cat:
- Defender Viper beats attacker Shadow: Viper has init 2, Shadow has init 6
- Defender Tarantula beats attacker Broadsword: Tarantula has init 1, Broadsword has init 6
- Defender Mantis beats attacker Broadsword: Both sides fire at init 6, but Mantis uses t1, while Broadsword uses t2
Xan De does not roid Xan:
- Defender Vsharrak beats attacker Shadow: Both sides fire at init 6, but Vsharrak uses t2, while Shadow uses t2
Xan De roids Zik:
- Attacker Shadow beats defender Corsair: Shadow has init 6, Corsair has init 18
- Attacker Broadsword beats defender Clipper: Broadsword has init 6, Clipper has init 17
- Attacker Broadsword beats defender Man O War: Broadsword has init 6, Man O War has init 8
Xan De does not roid Etd:
- Attacker Shadow beats defender Smuggler: Shadow has init 6, Smuggler has init 20
- Attacker Broadsword beats defender Marauder: Broadsword has init 6, Marauder has init 20
- Defender Avenger beats attacker Broadsword: Avenger has init 3, Broadsword has init 6

Running simple check for Zik Fr...
Zik Fr does not roid Ter:
- Defender Interceptor beats attacker Thief: Interceptor has init 8, Thief has init 19
- Defender War Cruiser beats attacker Cutter: War Cruiser has init 5, Cutter has init 18
- Defender Dragon beats attacker Cutter: Dragon has init 5, Cutter has init 18
Zik Fr does not roid Cat:
- Defender Viper beats attacker Thief: Viper has init 2, Thief has init 19
- Defender Tarantula beats attacker Cutter: Tarantula has init 1, Cutter has init 18
Zik Fr does not roid Xan:
- Defender Pulsar beats attacker Thief: Pulsar has init 5, Thief has init 19
Zik Fr does not roid Zik:
- Defender Dagger beats attacker Thief: Dagger has init 8, Thief has init 19
- Defender Corsair beats attacker Thief: Corsair has init 18, Thief has init 19
- Attacker Cutter beats defender Pirate: Cutter has init 18, Pirate has init 19
Zik Fr does not roid Etd:
- Attacker Thief beats defender Smuggler: Thief has init 19, Smuggler has init 20
- Attacker Cutter beats defender Marauder: Cutter has init 18, Marauder has init 20
- Defender Avenger beats attacker Cutter: Avenger has init 3, Cutter has init 18

Running simple check for Zik Bs...
Zik Bs does not roid Ter:
- Defender Chimera beats attacker Pirate: Chimera has init 7, Pirate has init 19
Zik Bs does not roid Cat:
- Defender Roach beats attacker Man O War: Roach has init 2, Man O War has init 8
- Defender Scorpion beats attacker Man O War: Scorpion has init 1, Man O War has init 8
Zik Bs does not roid Xan:
- Defender Fireblade beats attacker Pirate: Fireblade has init 4, Pirate has init 19
- Defender Broadsword beats attacker Man O War: Broadsword has init 6, Man O War has init 8
Zik Bs does not roid Zik:
- Defender Cutter beats attacker Pirate: Cutter has init 18, Pirate has init 19
- Defender Buccaneer beats attacker Man O War: Buccaneer has init 5, Man O War has init 8
Zik Bs does not roid Etd:
- Defender Lancer beats attacker Pirate: Lancer has init 5, Pirate has init 19
- Defender Ghost beats attacker Man O War: Ghost has init 6, Man O War has init 8
- Defender Devastator beats attacker Man O War: Devastator has init 7, Man O War has init 8

Running simple check for Etd Co...
Etd Co does not roid Ter:
- Defender Interceptor beats attacker Defender: Interceptor is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Centaur beats attacker Smuggler: Centaur has init 5, Smuggler has init 20
Etd Co does not roid Cat:
- Defender Beetle beats attacker Defender: Both sides fire at init 1, but Beetle uses t2, while Defender uses t2
- Defender Black Widow beats attacker Smuggler: Black Widow has init 1, Smuggler has init 20
Etd Co does not roid Xan:
- Attacker Defender beats defender Vsharrak: Defender has init 1, Vsharrak has init 6
- Defender Tzen beats attacker Smuggler: Tzen has init 4, Smuggler has init 20
- Defender Shadow beats attacker Smuggler: Shadow has init 6, Smuggler has init 20
Etd Co does not roid Zik:
- Attacker Defender beats defender Cutlass: Defender has init 1, Cutlass has init 18
- Defender Thief beats attacker Smuggler: Thief has init 19, Smuggler has init 20
Etd Co does not roid Etd:
- Defender Defender beats attacker Defender: Both sides fire at init 1, but Defender uses t2, while Defender uses t2
- Defender Pegasus beats attacker Smuggler: Pegasus has init 4, Smuggler has init 20

Running simple check for Etd Cr...
Etd Cr does not roid Ter:
- Defender Drake beats attacker Marauder: Drake has init 7, Marauder has init 20
- Defender Dreadnought beats attacker Devastator: Dreadnought has init 5, Devastator has init 7
Etd Cr does not roid Cat:
- Defender Roach beats attacker Marauder: Roach has init 2, Marauder has init 20
- Attacker Devastator beats defender Guardian: Devastator has init 7, Guardian has init 20
Etd Cr does not roid Xan:
- Defender Bomber beats attacker Marauder: Bomber has init 4, Marauder has init 20
- Defender Broadsword beats attacker Marauder: Broadsword has init 6, Marauder has init 20
- Defender Peacekeeper beats attacker Devastator: Peacekeeper has init 5, Devastator has init 7
Etd Cr does not roid Zik:
- Defender Cutter beats attacker Marauder: Cutter has init 18, Marauder has init 20
- Defender Buccaneer beats attacker Marauder: Buccaneer has init 5, Marauder has init 20
- Attacker Devastator beats defender Man O War: Devastator has init 7, Man O War has init 8
Etd Cr does not roid Etd:
- Defender Lancer beats attacker Marauder: Lancer has init 5, Marauder has init 20
- Defender Ghost beats attacker Marauder: Ghost has init 6, Marauder has init 20
- Defender Predator beats attacker Devastator: Predator has init 5, Devastator has init 7

Running simple check for Etd Bs...
Etd Bs does not roid Ter:
- Defender Chimera beats attacker Avenger: Chimera is Ter and resists EMP
Etd Bs does not roid Cat:
- Defender Roach beats attacker Avenger: Roach has init 2, Avenger has init 3
- Defender Scorpion beats attacker Predator: Scorpion has init 1, Predator has init 5
Etd Bs roids Xan:
- Attacker Avenger beats defender Fireblade: Avenger has init 3, Fireblade has init 4
- Attacker Avenger beats defender Broadsword: Avenger has init 3, Broadsword has init 6
Etd Bs roids Zik:
- Attacker Avenger beats defender Cutter: Avenger has init 3, Cutter has init 18
- Attacker Avenger beats defender Buccaneer: Avenger has init 3, Buccaneer has init 5
Etd Bs roids Etd:
- Attacker Avenger beats defender Lancer: Avenger has init 3, Lancer has init 5
- Attacker Avenger beats defender Ghost: Avenger has init 3, Ghost has init 6
- Attacker Predator beats defender Devastator: Predator has init 5, Devastator has init 7

Running simple check for Fi teamups...
Fi teamups roid Ter:
- Attacker Vsharrak beats defender Torpedo: Vsharrak has init 6, Torpedo has init 7
- Attacker Pulsar beats defender Centaur: Both sides fire at init 5, but Pulsar uses t1, while Centaur uses t2
Fi teamups do not roid Cat:
- Defender Beetle beats attacker Vsharrak: Beetle has init 1, Vsharrak has init 6
- Defender Black Widow beats attacker Vsharrak: Black Widow has init 1, Vsharrak has init 6
Fi teamups do not roid Xan:
- Attacker Vsharrak beats defender Phantom: Vsharrak has init 6, Phantom has init 7
- Defender Tzen beats attacker Pulsar: Tzen has init 4, Pulsar has init 5
- Defender Shadow beats attacker Vsharrak: Both sides fire at init 6, but Shadow uses t2, while Vsharrak uses t2
Fi teamups roid Zik:
- Attacker Vsharrak beats defender Cutlass: Vsharrak has init 6, Cutlass has init 18
- Attacker Pulsar beats defender Thief: Pulsar has init 5, Thief has init 19
Fi teamups do not roid Etd:
- Defender Defender beats attacker Vsharrak: Defender has init 1, Vsharrak has init 6

Running simple check for Co teamups...
Co teamups do not roid Ter:
- Defender Interceptor beats attacker Beetle: Interceptor is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Interceptor beats attacker Defender: Interceptor is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Centaur beats attacker Viper: Centaur is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Centaur beats attacker Smuggler: Centaur has init 5, Smuggler has init 20
Co teamups do not roid Cat:
- Defender Beetle beats attacker Beetle: Both sides fire at init 1, but Beetle uses t2, while Beetle uses t2
- Defender Beetle beats attacker Defender: Both sides fire at init 1, but Beetle uses t2, while Defender uses t2
- Defender Black Widow beats attacker Viper: Black Widow has init 1, Viper has init 2
- Defender Black Widow beats attacker Smuggler: Black Widow has init 1, Smuggler has init 20
Co teamups roid Xan:
- Attacker Beetle beats defender Vsharrak: Beetle has init 1, Vsharrak has init 6
- Attacker Defender beats defender Vsharrak: Defender has init 1, Vsharrak has init 6
- Attacker Viper beats defender Tzen: Viper has init 2, Tzen has init 4
- Defender Tzen beats attacker Smuggler: Tzen has init 4, Smuggler has init 20
- Attacker Viper beats defender Shadow: Viper has init 2, Shadow has init 6
- Defender Shadow beats attacker Smuggler: Shadow has init 6, Smuggler has init 20
Co teamups roid Zik:
- Attacker Beetle beats defender Cutlass: Beetle has init 1, Cutlass has init 18
- Attacker Defender beats defender Cutlass: Defender has init 1, Cutlass has init 18
- Attacker Viper beats defender Thief: Viper has init 2, Thief has init 19
- Defender Thief beats attacker Smuggler: Thief has init 19, Smuggler has init 20
Co teamups do not roid Etd:
- Defender Defender beats attacker Beetle: Both sides fire at init 1, but Defender uses t2, while Beetle uses t2
- Defender Defender beats attacker Defender: Both sides fire at init 1, but Defender uses t2, while Defender uses t2
- Attacker Viper beats defender Pegasus: Viper has init 2, Pegasus has init 4
- Defender Pegasus beats attacker Smuggler: Pegasus has init 4, Smuggler has init 20

Running simple check for Fr teamups...
Fr teamups roid Ter:
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Interceptor: Centaur has init 5, Interceptor has init 8
- Attacker Tzen beats defender Interceptor: Tzen has init 4, Interceptor has init 8
- Defender Interceptor beats attacker Thief: Interceptor has init 8, Thief has init 19
- Defender War Cruiser beats attacker Drake: War Cruiser has init 5, Drake has init 7
- Attacker Bomber beats defender War Cruiser: Bomber has init 4, War Cruiser has init 5
- Defender War Cruiser beats attacker Cutter: War Cruiser has init 5, Cutter has init 18
- Defender Dragon beats attacker Chimera: Dragon has init 5, Chimera has init 7
- Attacker Fireblade beats defender Dragon: Fireblade has init 4, Dragon has init 5
- Defender Dragon beats attacker Cutter: Dragon has init 5, Cutter has init 18
Fr teamups roid Cat:
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Viper: Centaur is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Viper beats attacker Tzen: Viper has init 2, Tzen has init 4
- Defender Viper beats attacker Thief: Viper has init 2, Thief has init 19
- Attacker Drake beats defender Tarantula: Drake is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Tarantula beats attacker Bomber: Tarantula has init 1, Bomber has init 4
- Defender Tarantula beats attacker Cutter: Tarantula has init 1, Cutter has init 18
Fr teamups roid Xan:
- Defender Pulsar beats attacker Centaur: Both sides fire at init 5, but Pulsar uses t1, while Centaur uses t2
- Attacker Tzen beats defender Pulsar: Tzen has init 4, Pulsar has init 5
- Defender Pulsar beats attacker Thief: Pulsar has init 5, Thief has init 19
Fr teamups roid Zik:
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Dagger: Centaur has init 5, Dagger has init 8
- Attacker Tzen beats defender Dagger: Tzen has init 4, Dagger has init 8
- Defender Dagger beats attacker Thief: Dagger has init 8, Thief has init 19
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Corsair: Centaur has init 5, Corsair has init 18
- Attacker Tzen beats defender Corsair: Tzen has init 4, Corsair has init 18
- Defender Corsair beats attacker Thief: Corsair has init 18, Thief has init 19
- Attacker Chimera beats defender Pirate: Chimera has init 7, Pirate has init 19
- Attacker Fireblade beats defender Pirate: Fireblade has init 4, Pirate has init 19
- Attacker Cutter beats defender Pirate: Cutter has init 18, Pirate has init 19
Fr teamups roid Etd:
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Smuggler: Centaur has init 5, Smuggler has init 20
- Attacker Tzen beats defender Smuggler: Tzen has init 4, Smuggler has init 20
- Attacker Thief beats defender Smuggler: Thief has init 19, Smuggler has init 20
- Attacker Drake beats defender Marauder: Drake has init 7, Marauder has init 20
- Attacker Bomber beats defender Marauder: Bomber has init 4, Marauder has init 20
- Attacker Cutter beats defender Marauder: Cutter has init 18, Marauder has init 20
- Attacker Chimera beats defender Avenger: Chimera is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Avenger beats attacker Fireblade: Avenger has init 3, Fireblade has init 4
- Defender Avenger beats attacker Cutter: Avenger has init 3, Cutter has init 18

Running simple check for De teamups...
De teamups do not roid Ter:
- Defender Torpedo beats attacker Black Widow: Torpedo is Ter and resists EMP
- Attacker Shadow beats defender Torpedo: Shadow has init 6, Torpedo has init 7
- Defender War Cruiser beats attacker Roach: War Cruiser is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender War Cruiser beats attacker Broadsword: War Cruiser has init 5, Broadsword has init 6
- Defender Dreadnought beats attacker Roach: Dreadnought is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Dreadnought beats attacker Broadsword: Dreadnought has init 5, Broadsword has init 6
De teamups do not roid Cat:
- Attacker Black Widow beats defender Viper: Black Widow has init 1, Viper has init 2
- Defender Viper beats attacker Shadow: Viper has init 2, Shadow has init 6
- Defender Tarantula beats attacker Roach: Tarantula has init 1, Roach has init 2
- Defender Tarantula beats attacker Broadsword: Tarantula has init 1, Broadsword has init 6
- Attacker Roach beats defender Mantis: Roach has init 2, Mantis has init 6
- Defender Mantis beats attacker Broadsword: Both sides fire at init 6, but Mantis uses t1, while Broadsword uses t2
De teamups roid Xan:
- Attacker Black Widow beats defender Vsharrak: Black Widow has init 1, Vsharrak has init 6
- Defender Vsharrak beats attacker Shadow: Both sides fire at init 6, but Vsharrak uses t2, while Shadow uses t2
De teamups roid Zik:
- Attacker Black Widow beats defender Corsair: Black Widow has init 1, Corsair has init 18
- Attacker Shadow beats defender Corsair: Shadow has init 6, Corsair has init 18
- Attacker Roach beats defender Clipper: Roach has init 2, Clipper has init 17
- Attacker Broadsword beats defender Clipper: Broadsword has init 6, Clipper has init 17
- Attacker Roach beats defender Man O War: Roach has init 2, Man O War has init 8
- Attacker Broadsword beats defender Man O War: Broadsword has init 6, Man O War has init 8
De teamups roid Etd:
- Attacker Black Widow beats defender Smuggler: Black Widow has init 1, Smuggler has init 20
- Attacker Shadow beats defender Smuggler: Shadow has init 6, Smuggler has init 20
- Attacker Roach beats defender Marauder: Roach has init 2, Marauder has init 20
- Attacker Broadsword beats defender Marauder: Broadsword has init 6, Marauder has init 20
- Attacker Roach beats defender Avenger: Roach has init 2, Avenger has init 3
- Defender Avenger beats attacker Broadsword: Avenger has init 3, Broadsword has init 6

Running simple check for Cr teamups...
Cr teamups do not roid Ter:
- Defender Drake beats attacker Tarantula: Drake is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Drake beats attacker Marauder: Drake has init 7, Marauder has init 20
- Defender Dreadnought beats attacker Scorpion: Dreadnought is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Dreadnought beats attacker Devastator: Dreadnought has init 5, Devastator has init 7
Cr teamups roid Cat:
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Roach: Tarantula has init 1, Roach has init 2
- Defender Roach beats attacker Mantis: Roach has init 2, Mantis has init 6
- Defender Roach beats attacker Marauder: Roach has init 2, Marauder has init 20
- Attacker Scorpion beats defender Guardian: Scorpion has init 1, Guardian has init 20
- Attacker Devastator beats defender Guardian: Devastator has init 7, Guardian has init 20
Cr teamups roid Xan:
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Bomber: Tarantula has init 1, Bomber has init 4
- Defender Bomber beats attacker Marauder: Bomber has init 4, Marauder has init 20
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Broadsword: Tarantula has init 1, Broadsword has init 6
- Attacker Mantis beats defender Broadsword: Both sides fire at init 6, but Mantis uses t1, while Broadsword uses t2
- Defender Broadsword beats attacker Marauder: Broadsword has init 6, Marauder has init 20
- Attacker Scorpion beats defender Peacekeeper: Scorpion has init 1, Peacekeeper has init 5
- Defender Peacekeeper beats attacker Devastator: Peacekeeper has init 5, Devastator has init 7
Cr teamups roid Zik:
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Cutter: Tarantula has init 1, Cutter has init 18
- Defender Cutter beats attacker Marauder: Cutter has init 18, Marauder has init 20
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Buccaneer: Tarantula has init 1, Buccaneer has init 5
- Defender Buccaneer beats attacker Mantis: Buccaneer has init 5, Mantis has init 6
- Defender Buccaneer beats attacker Marauder: Buccaneer has init 5, Marauder has init 20
- Attacker Scorpion beats defender Man O War: Scorpion has init 1, Man O War has init 8
- Attacker Devastator beats defender Man O War: Devastator has init 7, Man O War has init 8
Cr teamups roid Etd:
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Lancer: Tarantula has init 1, Lancer has init 5
- Defender Lancer beats attacker Marauder: Lancer has init 5, Marauder has init 20
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Ghost: Tarantula has init 1, Ghost has init 6
- Defender Ghost beats attacker Mantis: Both sides fire at init 6, but Ghost uses t1, while Mantis uses t1
- Defender Ghost beats attacker Marauder: Ghost has init 6, Marauder has init 20
- Attacker Scorpion beats defender Predator: Scorpion has init 1, Predator has init 5
- Defender Predator beats attacker Devastator: Predator has init 5, Devastator has init 7

Running simple check for Bs teamups...
Bs teamups roid Ter:
- Attacker Dragon beats defender Chimera: Dragon has init 5, Chimera has init 7
- Defender Chimera beats attacker Pirate: Chimera has init 7, Pirate has init 19
- Defender Chimera beats attacker Avenger: Chimera is Ter and resists EMP
Bs teamups roid Cat:
- Attacker Dreadnought beats defender Roach: Dreadnought is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Roach beats attacker Man O War: Roach has init 2, Man O War has init 8
- Defender Roach beats attacker Avenger: Roach has init 2, Avenger has init 3
- Attacker Dreadnought beats defender Scorpion: Dreadnought is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Scorpion beats attacker Man O War: Scorpion has init 1, Man O War has init 8
- Defender Scorpion beats attacker Predator: Scorpion has init 1, Predator has init 5
Bs teamups roid Xan:
- Defender Fireblade beats attacker Dragon: Fireblade has init 4, Dragon has init 5
- Defender Fireblade beats attacker Pirate: Fireblade has init 4, Pirate has init 19
- Attacker Avenger beats defender Fireblade: Avenger has init 3, Fireblade has init 4
- Attacker Dreadnought beats defender Broadsword: Dreadnought has init 5, Broadsword has init 6
- Defender Broadsword beats attacker Man O War: Broadsword has init 6, Man O War has init 8
- Attacker Avenger beats defender Broadsword: Avenger has init 3, Broadsword has init 6
Bs teamups roid Zik:
- Attacker Dragon beats defender Cutter: Dragon has init 5, Cutter has init 18
- Defender Cutter beats attacker Pirate: Cutter has init 18, Pirate has init 19
- Attacker Avenger beats defender Cutter: Avenger has init 3, Cutter has init 18
- Attacker Dreadnought beats defender Buccaneer: Both sides fire at init 5, but Dreadnought uses t1, while Buccaneer uses t2
- Defender Buccaneer beats attacker Man O War: Buccaneer has init 5, Man O War has init 8
- Attacker Avenger beats defender Buccaneer: Avenger has init 3, Buccaneer has init 5
Bs teamups roid Etd:
- Defender Lancer beats attacker Dragon: Both sides fire at init 5, but Lancer uses t1, while Dragon uses t1
- Defender Lancer beats attacker Pirate: Lancer has init 5, Pirate has init 19
- Attacker Avenger beats defender Lancer: Avenger has init 3, Lancer has init 5
- Attacker Dreadnought beats defender Ghost: Dreadnought has init 5, Ghost has init 6
- Defender Ghost beats attacker Man O War: Ghost has init 6, Man O War has init 8
- Attacker Avenger beats defender Ghost: Avenger has init 3, Ghost has init 6
- Attacker Dreadnought beats defender Devastator: Dreadnought has init 5, Devastator has init 7
- Defender Devastator beats attacker Man O War: Devastator has init 7, Man O War has init 8
- Attacker Predator beats defender Devastator: Predator has init 5, Devastator has init 7
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Unread 19 Dec 2015, 16:15   #42
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Why wouldnt everyone play Bs/fr? They can roid all.
Why would anyone play Fi?, They can roid almost no one.

Why would anyone play zik in your stats they can't roid anyone, same with Etd. You are just going to have a round of 30% cath and 30% Ter. You really need to fix a lot of things, theses stats are not even in a place that can be critiqued because you haven't gotten them to a point where we can see what you want.

Please understand that you can't build a set of stats for alliance's, the alliances build their strats after the stats come out.
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Unread 19 Dec 2015, 21:29   #43
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Xan DE is useless, why have it?
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Unread 19 Dec 2015, 22:06   #44
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Why even have Xan? They are required to build atleast 40% value in fi, as they are the only ships that target Fr or De.
Xan fi is T1 by Defender/Black Widow/ Beetle all at init 1. Xan Fi has no team up in this stats infact there are only 5 fighters in the set. They actually can not attack anyone because of the number of ships.

They are a useless race, their fr is just meh the other 2 races do Fr better, and As Cochese said their De is wortless.
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Unread 20 Dec 2015, 11:44   #45
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

If Terran is so good and can only be soloed by xan, wouldn't quite a few people go xan just because they will have a lot of targets and because they can fake and in effect portray a lot more value than they actually have?

I call for more extensive beta testing of stats on a general notice. Cause what you can calc and what will actually be the case doesn't align all the time. Even good stats/templates lead to shit rounds for reasons unknown to statmakers, so are you all sure unconventional stats will be horrible? Can we have speedrounds like the xmas round inbetween rounds to actually run the set of stats that's most favoured for the upcoming round? Might show some dynamics that a normal betatest with 20 players won't show.
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Unread 20 Dec 2015, 11:58   #46
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Xan can't roid Terran not by any sense of the word.

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=9450mpgssy8n5s6

However you look at it, Xan CAN NOT roid Terran.
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Unread 20 Dec 2015, 12:16   #47
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=j4jjg733a8bxs56 << i would land that, especially if xp involved.

I just went off the list that bb said not to take too seriously, i know ****all about stats anyway, i just pick the one most unlikely to get roided by the majority of my enemies anyway.

Edit; and i don't look at soloing ability, so the entire discussion is meaningless to me personally.
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Unread 20 Dec 2015, 12:57   #48
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrunkenViking View Post
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=j4jjg733a8bxs56 << i would land that, especially if xp involved.
atleast put a realistic BS fleet in the def.
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Unread 20 Dec 2015, 17:12   #49
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but your calc isn't showing up right Tia...two fleets, the second one is hard to see. Also wondering why fi and fr together?
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Unread 20 Dec 2015, 18:09   #50
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

The second fleet has been disabled. It's only in the calc to indicate the Xan's full fleet composition.
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