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Unread 22 May 2006, 00:40   #51
Nodrog
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Re: A few things that are crap

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Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Architecture in London* is crap. The outsides are nice but the actual way houses are built is appalling. I am not sure it is even the capitalists fault per se, but it is crap.
If it were the capitalists fault then New York wouldnt be the most beautiful city in the world. Unsurprinsgly though, its largely the fault of socialism since I believe there are a _lot_ of laws which limit the construction of ambitious buildings, due to fears that they would spoil the view/skyline.

But yeah, London architecture is terrible. Most of the so-called "nice" buildings are far too old and pretty shit (St Pauls, Westminister etc) and there are very few good modern buildings. Canary Wharf was a (small) step in the right direction I suppose, but it still pales into irrelevance when compared to the sort of construction projects going on in Chicago or Dubai. I havent found a single building in London that I'd go out of my way to visit.

I suppose its fitting that the capital city sums up the stereotypical modern British attitude of scepticism towards anything innovative//interesting/ambitious/good, and the general veneration of old things simply for being old.

Last edited by Nodrog; 22 May 2006 at 01:08.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 08:28   #52
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Re: A few things that are crap

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Originally Posted by Nodrog
If it were the capitalists fault then New York wouldnt be the most beautiful city in the world.
Are you taking the piss?

if not, you either have the worst taste ever or you seriously, seriously need to see more cities.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 09:03   #53
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Re: A few things that are crap

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
But yeah, London architecture is terrible. Most of the so-called "nice" buildings are far too old and pretty shit (St Pauls, Westminister etc) and there are very few good modern buildings. Canary Wharf was a (small) step in the right direction I suppose, but it still pales into irrelevance when compared to the sort of construction projects going on in Chicago or Dubai. I havent found a single building in London that I'd go out of my way to visit.
i wouldn't go as far as saying 'London architecture is terrible', but fact is British conservatism doesn't work in it's favour.
on IRC i've explained to you how Renzo Piano had to work his way through the 'skyline-guidelines' when designing the Shard of Glass. (there are certain points in the city that have to stay visable from about every point). London is not the most easy place for creative architects when it's about designing tall buildings; they simply get too little space for playing around.

the city does have some real nice modern, unconvential buildings though. on smaller scale my favourite would be the London Metropolitan University Graduate Centre. on a larger scale i'd nominate the Millenium Dome, for it's rather spectacular construction and use of materials.

the 'older' buildings of the city never really impressed me that much tbh, but maybe that is because neo-classicism never really has been my thing.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 09:26   #54
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Re: A few things that are crap

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Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Walls generally just aren't thick enough, despite the fact that you would hope walls were as thick as possible. Despite thousands of years of building, basic problems don't seem to have been solved.
aren't there laws for Rc-values (insulation) then, in England? (here the 'peel' of the building always has to be atleast 2,5 m2.K/W). and it's not like it's that hard to reach that value. for my graduationproject i've been working out a building with walls that reached 4,0 and 4,9, while not being thicker than 420mm.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 09:34   #55
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Re: A few things that are crap

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Originally Posted by Blastoderm
I live in a new-ish flat and it maintains the right temperature all year round.
Purpose built flats (especially anything built in the last twenty years) keep their temperature much better for obvious reasons. And any property maintained by social landlords will often be in a better state than it's private counterparts since they've got a duty to report the energy efficiency ratings for each dwelling and to improve where possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koen
aren't there laws for Rc-values (insulation) then, in England? (here the 'peel' of the building always has to be atleast 2,5 m2.K/W). and it's not like it's that hard to reach that value. for my graduationproject i've been working out a building with walls that reached 4,0 and 4,9, while not being thicker than 420mm.
There are quite strict rules (Part 'L' of the Building Regulations) on new build and generally anything built now days will have very good ratings in pretty much every area. However, the vast majority of people built in properties much older than the regulations, and retrofitting each house is a massive project (and no one is obliged to comply in any case). Older houses are often the most popular type of property to live in anyway, for other (fashion/style/taste) reasons. Thus the problem.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 09:52   #56
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Re: A few things that are crap

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Originally Posted by KoeN
the city does have some real nice modern, unconvential buildings though. on smaller scale my favourite would be the London Metropolitan University Graduate Centre. on a larger scale i'd nominate the Millenium Dome, for it's rather spectacular construction and use of materials.
.
The Libeskind building is hideous, just like every other project he's been involved in. 'Originality' for its own sake is not a good thing, and the desire to be 'original' at all costs is one of the main reasons for the general decadence of modren art, music, and architecure. Its one thing to build in an unique style because you think it actually looks beautiful, and another to try and be new just for the sake of being new. That museam actually reminds me of a building in Edinburgh which I dislike for similar reasons.

The Millenium Dome is bad for the same reason the Eiffel Tower is bad - there is no reason for it to exist. Its just a stupid blob in the middle of the city that was built for no reason. Compare it something like the Empire State Building or the Chrysler Tower, which are examples of building on a grand scale while allowing the form to fufill a specific function.


edit: there are some nice buildings in London though. The pricewaterhousecooper building near Bank is good, as is one just round the corner (I have no idea what it is but it blew my mind first time I saw it, I should take photos :/). The Millenium Bridge is also nice, although nowhere near as good as the one in Gateshead, which is beautiful. (1 2 3)

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Unread 22 May 2006, 10:04   #57
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Re: A few things that are crap

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Originally Posted by Nodrog
building in Edinburgh which I dislike for similar reasons.

The Millenium Dome is bad for the same reason the Eiffel Tower is bad - there is no reason for it to exist. Its just a stupid blob in the middle of the city that was built for no reason. Compare it something like the Empire State Building or the Chrysler Tower, which are examples of building on a grand scale while allowing the form to fufill a specific function.
eww that building makes me think the architect had several fits of insanity whilst designing it.

why should function just be defined as 'you can run a business from it' ?
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Unread 22 May 2006, 10:20   #58
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Re: A few things that are crap

A personal favourite of mine is the Lloyds' building - I spent one summer walking past it every day on the way to work. The Gherkin is also superb up close.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 11:54   #59
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Re: A few things that are crap

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Originally Posted by horn
i'd also add people who refuse to drink/take drugs. although they don't seem related :/
why?
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Unread 22 May 2006, 11:55   #60
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Re: A few things that are crap

Astrology is, at best, unverifiable drivel.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 11:58   #61
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Re: A few things that are crap

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Originally Posted by Nodrog
The Millenium Dome is bad for the same reason the Eiffel Tower is bad - there is no reason for it to exist. Its just a stupid blob in the middle of the city that was built for no reason. Compare it something like the Empire State Building or the Chrysler Tower, which are examples of building on a grand scale while allowing the form to fufill a specific function.
The Dome project was conceived, originally on a somewhat smaller scale, under John Major's Conservative government, as a Festival of Britain or World's Fair-type showcase to celebrate the third millennium. The incoming Labour government elected in 1997 under Tony Blair, greatly expanded the size, scope and funding of the project. It also significantly increased expectations of what would be delivered. Just before its opening Blair claimed the Dome would be "a triumph of confidence over cynicism, boldness over blandness, excellence over mediocrity". In the words of BBC correspondent Robert Orchard 'the Dome was to be highlighted as a glittering New Labour achievement in the next election manifesto.' [/wikipedia]

isn't that a purpose on itself?

the eiffeltower was never wanted by the French people, now it's the symbol of France. also, the completion of the eiffeltower meant the begin for global use of puddled steel as construction-material.

now you can't compare this to the Millenium Dome, of course. still i believe that the intention to build something extraordinaire, just to show people what's technically possible, to break barriers; "to triumph over cynism and blandness", can be enough reason to build it.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 12:00   #62
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Re: A few things that are crap

Belief, organised religion, or religion on general. Not sure which is the worst.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 12:02   #63
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Re: A few things that are crap

belief isn't limited to religion, not even remotely, everything that you know is simply a belief.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 12:05   #64
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Re: A few things that are crap

Blind faith in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is more of a problem than simple belief
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Unread 22 May 2006, 12:10   #65
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Re: A few things that are crap

It's more unverifiable drivel than belief in the face of evidence to the contrary. Unless you consider the falsifying of arguments supporting the supposition as proof of it's incorrectness. That's sort of a murky logical area in things like politics and ethics.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 12:12   #66
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Re: A few things that are crap

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
It's more unverifiable drivel than belief in the face of evidence to the contrary
i watched that richard dawkins documentary about how religion is the root of all evil the other day...i can't remember the exact statistic, but something like 45% of americans believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old
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Unread 22 May 2006, 12:23   #67
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Re: A few things that are crap

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampy
i watched that richard dawkins documentary about how religion is the root of all evil the other day...i can't remember the exact statistic, but something like 45% of americans believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old
I was referring to religion in general, and a belief in god, rather than any specific bizzare ideas. Religion has caused many problems, but a belief the world is less than 10,000 years old isn't the most important. Religion causes problems when it moves into other people's homes.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 12:36   #68
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Re: A few things that are crap

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I was referring to religion in general, and a belief in god, rather than any specific bizzare ideas. Religion has caused many problems, but a belief the world is less than 10,000 years old isn't the most important. Religion causes problems when it moves into other people's homes.
I didnt say it was the most important problem, though i think it might be be a symptom of the larger issues. It was just a simple and concise way of illustrating the point i was making. which is that blind faith in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is crap. which is what this thread is all about. its not the MOST crap thing there is, but its still crap.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 12:50   #69
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Re: A few things that are crap

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoeN
i wouldn't go as far as saying 'London architecture is terrible', but fact is British conservatism doesn't work in it's favour.
on IRC i've explained to you how Renzo Piano had to work his way through the 'skyline-guidelines' when designing the Shard of Glass. (there are certain points in the city that have to stay visable from about every point). London is not the most easy place for creative architects when it's about designing tall buildings; they simply get too little space for playing around.

the city does have some real nice modern, unconvential buildings though. on smaller scale my favourite would be the London Metropolitan University Graduate Centre. on a larger scale i'd nominate the Millenium Dome, for it's rather spectacular construction and use of materials.

the 'older' buildings of the city never really impressed me that much tbh, but maybe that is because neo-classicism never really has been my thing.
That London Metropolitan uni building is the single most hideous thing in Islington if not the whole of the ****ing UK. It's a shitty designed building right in the middle of a ghetto. Ask any architecture student and they'll just give you a negative feedback on it.

Seriously, it's all about locations.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Purpose built flats (especially anything built in the last twenty years) keep their temperature much better for obvious reasons. And any property maintained by social landlords will often be in a better state than it's private counterparts since they've got a duty to report the energy efficiency ratings for each dwelling and to improve where possible.
Well it's a coucil high rise flat that was built in the last 50 years.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 12:58   #70
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Re: A few things that are crap

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Originally Posted by horn
because they refuse to give up the shit ethical stance they've been taught on the matter of "drug" use.
or, they allow others to define their habbits. for instance... some people i know who would be considered "unpopular" (or at least how they would be labelled if back at college/school) will not drink because they associate it with something "cool" people do, and because of the pressure to conform they overly compensate and refuse to drink at all, do any drugs, do any sport or pretty much anything remotely exciting.
either that or they're happy being sober. which i find just as distasteful.
sure, those specific people are shit, but i've got nothing against people who don't feel as if they need to indulge in various sorts to enjoy themselves.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 13:09   #71
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Re: A few things that are crap

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That London Metropolitan uni building is the single most hideous thing in Islington if not the whole of the ****ing UK. It's a shitty designed building right in the middle of a ghetto. Ask any architecture student and they'll just give you a negative feedback on it.

Seriously, it's all about locations.
maybe this goes for most British architecture students then. i had my lectures in city architecture here though. and in my opinion the controverse with it's surrounding is what makes it special.

location matters, yes.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 13:30   #72
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Re: A few things that are crap

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maybe this goes for most British architecture students then. i had my lectures in city architecture here though. and in my opinion the controverse with it's surrounding is what makes it special.

location matters, yes.
That's if you count Greeks, South Americans, Africans and Asians as British then.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 13:36   #73
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Re: A few things that are crap

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That's if you count Greeks, South Americans, Africans and Asians as British then.
i'm sure they don't mind you speaking for them all here.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 13:37   #74
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Re: A few things that are crap

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Originally Posted by KoeN
i'm sure they don't mind you speaking for them all here.
Once again, Koen's stupidity comes to the spotlight.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 13:39   #75
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Re: A few things that are crap

People who think their city is the greatest ****ing city on earth because theyve never travelled anywhere outside its borders except their once yearly fortnight in Ibiza where they attempt to shag anything with a pulse, and usually fail because their Spanish is limited to "Cerveza Por Favor" and "Senorita Por Favor".

Get the **** out of your routine once in a blue moon and visit a city or country where culture isnt just a section in the Observer.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 13:40   #76
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Re: A few things that are crap

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Once again, Koen's stupidity comes to the spotlight.
said the guy with Blink182 avatar.
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