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Unread 17 Jun 2012, 21:46   #1
MiX
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Galaxy Fund Suggestion

I bring up this suggestion because I feel that the way the galaxy fund is being used at the moment by many late starters is a problem. I think its a problem because they use the galaxy fund as a way to avoid taking part in the game, by hiding away resources they stay small enough to avoid any planet with a fleet what so ever to attack them. Until a very late point in the round the late starter is basically playing solitaire, which is not really the point of a large multiplayer game.

Originally the galaxy fund was meant as a way for the galaxies bigger planets to support new planets/scanners/crashers etc. That purpose of the galaxy fund is still important so I dont want to remove that possibilty.

What I am suggesting is a change to the galaxy fund that wont allow anyone to use the fund in order to stay out of the game while still allowing donations to help planets take part in the game. This is not a unique solution, there are probably many ways to approach the problem and if you have another idea then feel free to post it here.

My idea:
- Allow only planets that are too large to receive donations from the galaxy fund to donate into the galaxy fund.

So basically you wont be able to receive and give to the galaxy fund at the same time. You can either only receive donations, if your value is low enough, or you can only give donations, if your value is high enough (that is actually already in place).

This will prevent small planets to keep small by stashing away their resources in the fund.
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Unread 17 Jun 2012, 22:47   #2
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

Approved! *stamp*
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Unread 17 Jun 2012, 23:13   #3
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

The current "late starter" play is something I would love to see die out.
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Unread 18 Jun 2012, 00:20   #4
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

Excellent suggestion.

(And I don't say that very often).
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Unread 18 Jun 2012, 07:38   #5
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

Mkay. Won't kill late starting, but it's a good step.
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Unread 18 Jun 2012, 07:52   #6
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

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Originally Posted by Shev View Post
The current "late starter" play is something I would love to see die out.

Me too!
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Unread 18 Jun 2012, 09:44   #7
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

Agreed
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Unread 19 Jun 2012, 21:50   #8
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

has my vouch!
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Unread 19 Jun 2012, 21:51   #9
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

Has my vouch too!
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Unread 19 Jun 2012, 21:52   #10
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

I also like this idea, it is very sensible with one caveat. Early in the round there is very good reason to allow people below the average to donate to the fund, namely because you want to contribute to the gals ability to exile. Because of how screwy things are the first week of the round with score/value you may end up in a scenario where the most active players in the gal can't donate to the fund on occasion simply because a n00b has been saving rather than spending resources. So might I suggest that this rule only be enforced after tick 200 or something like that?
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Unread 19 Jun 2012, 22:10   #11
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

vouch
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Unread 19 Jun 2012, 22:28   #12
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
I also like this idea, it is very sensible with one caveat. Early in the round there is very good reason to allow people below the average to donate to the fund, namely because you want to contribute to the gals ability to exile. Because of how screwy things are the first week of the round with score/value you may end up in a scenario where the most active players in the gal can't donate to the fund on occasion simply because a n00b has been saving rather than spending resources. So might I suggest that this rule only be enforced after tick 200 or something like that?
Or disable exile the first 200 ticks :P
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Unread 19 Jun 2012, 22:35   #13
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

We disscussed this yesterday, and ill still like to see some suggestion that would stop anyone from hiding score in gal fund.
Splitting the res score over the planets that are small enough to recive gal fund res.
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Unread 20 Jun 2012, 06:10   #14
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

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Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
I also like this idea, it is very sensible with one caveat. Early in the round there is very good reason to allow people below the average to donate to the fund, namely because you want to contribute to the gals ability to exile. Because of how screwy things are the first week of the round with score/value you may end up in a scenario where the most active players in the gal can't donate to the fund on occasion simply because a n00b has been saving rather than spending resources. So might I suggest that this rule only be enforced after tick 200 or something like that?
You raise a valid point, I dont think it would be a problem if all planets could donate to the fund in the first x ticks where x is less than ~200. After that the decent players will have large enough value to donate regardless.
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Unread 20 Jun 2012, 06:21   #15
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

Good idea.
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Unread 21 Jun 2012, 16:14   #16
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

A suggestion everyone supports? wow.
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Unread 21 Jun 2012, 17:28   #17
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

I'm surprised no late-starters have reported in yet!
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Unread 23 Jun 2012, 04:14   #18
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

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Originally Posted by Kargool View Post
A suggestion everyone supports? wow.
Lets implement it!
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Unread 23 Jun 2012, 11:53   #19
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

why remove late starting as a tactic? it is open to everyone. i really think this is a complete non-issue. deal with exiling to find a specific galaxy, that is a much more important issue. some people, effectively, have 8 planet BPs.
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Unread 23 Jun 2012, 13:35   #20
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

Why remove it?
1/ It encourages n00b bashing.
2/ It's abused in the sense that people use it to reset and improve their position (it is intended to allow people who missed the start to join the game without being at a massive disadvantage).
3/ It's a way for those who failed to exile into their preferred galaxy to get there at the expense of the galaxy they were in previously. We all know how annoying it is for a galaxy struggling along in the top 50 (but making the best of it) to find 2 of their best planets delete themselves to late-start in a "top" galaxy.

But I agree that we must also stop the abuse of the exiling system. Just take a look at the top galaxies this round - it's absolutely ridiculous. (If that's the result of random good luck then I apologise unreservedly).
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Unread 23 Jun 2012, 13:44   #21
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reincarnate View Post
deal with exiling to find a specific galaxy, that is a much more important issue. some people, effectively, have 8 planet BPs.
Why remove exiling as a tactic? It is open to everyone. I really think this is a complete non-issue.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 23 Jun 2012 at 14:03.
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Unread 23 Jun 2012, 13:45   #22
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

If it were purely random perhaps - but some people seem to be much better at it than others.
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Unread 24 Jun 2012, 00:06   #23
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reincarnate View Post
why remove late starting as a tactic? it is open to everyone. i really think this is a complete non-issue. deal with exiling to find a specific galaxy, that is a much more important issue. some people, effectively, have 8 planet BPs.
The main problem with the late starters current "tactic" is that they do not actually take part in the game at all. By using the way the galaxy fund works they effectively avoid being part of the universe (other than noob bashing).

Starting late and ending up with your friends BP after unsuccessful exiles is ok with me. However you should start playing the game right away after that happens, not stay out until the very end at which point you cruise into t100 by getting all resources back from galaxy fund and sitting on 2k+ roids.

Calling it a non-issue is wrong imo. The fact that an imbalanced tactic is available to everyone is of course not a valid argument in it's defense, if it was then exploitable bugs in games should never get fixed, since they are available to everyone.
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Unread 24 Jun 2012, 07:26   #24
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I'm surprised no late-starters have reported in yet!
They haven't started yet maybe :P
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Unread 24 Jun 2012, 11:55   #25
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

removing options in the game might not be the best way of treating PA in its current state - however I like the fact that you can't hide score - if you are to remove this option, then remove latestart also, lets be done with the entire latestart scenario, it's stupid enough as it is anyway.

Oh and do weekly shuffles of inactive galaxies, remove the seflf-exile option. and by that get rid of the farm galaxy issues, and exile race.
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Unread 24 Jun 2012, 19:30   #26
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

What is the amount-limits in the fund?
If the limit was low enough, it would allow for exiling-issues and prevent hiding serious amount of score in the fund...? Or am I not seeing something?
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Unread 24 Jun 2012, 19:47   #27
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinner View Post
What is the amount-limits in the fund?
If the limit was low enough, it would allow for exiling-issues and prevent hiding serious amount of score in the fund...? Or am I not seeing something?
The galaxy fund can hold 75m total, and a planet below the avg score, can be donated a maximum of 50m total in any timespan of 200 ticks.
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Unread 24 Jun 2012, 20:18   #28
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killeah View Post
removing options in the game might not be the best way of treating PA in its current state - however I like the fact that you can't hide score - if you are to remove this option, then remove latestart also, lets be done with the entire latestart scenario, it's stupid enough as it is anyway.

Oh and do weekly shuffles of inactive galaxies, remove the seflf-exile option. and by that get rid of the farm galaxy issues, and exile race.
Late starting is fair enough, the way its being 'abused' is whats wrong with it at the moment. MiX suggestions pretty much solves that issue.
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Unread 25 Jun 2012, 02:00   #29
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

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Originally Posted by Spinner View Post
What is the amount-limits in the fund?
If the limit was low enough, it would allow for exiling-issues and prevent hiding serious amount of score in the fund...? Or am I not seeing something?
This would probably work as an alternative solution.

The limit would have to be pretty low however, and you would restrain galaxies that like to keep resources in fund to cover for potential crashes and such (tho I havent seen anyone doing this since r9 or so).

If either solution gets implemented Id be happy enough.
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Unread 2 Jul 2012, 22:09   #30
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

The fund also isnt limited, even with the limits due to you just being able to trade it in rather than donate it.

I would just like to push this suggestion up to the top, as id love for this "late start culture" to be changed
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Unread 15 Jul 2012, 03:13   #31
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

who's in charge of deciding whether these suggestions get implemented or not? I could bug them on IRC.
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Unread 24 Jul 2012, 11:03   #32
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

Disagree completely

Leave it alone
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Unread 24 Jul 2012, 13:23   #33
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

Okay, so - late starters are designed to allow for people to join in and play who maybe weren't available at PT0. Or even people who've suffered catastrophic starts to the round etc. With these people coming in late (whatever the reason) - they get the same 24-hour protection as everyone else did, but they're joining the game at a time when every other planet has over 300 ticks advantage on them.

From my understanding, people using the fund to hide res and keep value down do so purely so that they can stock up to 50m/each to give them 500k value worth of ships at a time when they're more confidently able to 'join in' on a level with everyone else.

It seems to me that people just don't like the fact that there can be a planet here or there that has more roids than them that they can't hit. Might this be more to do with people's frustration that they can't get at these "easy roids" of late starters, so want to rule the 'tactic' out?

It just seems like a "If I can't roid them, they shouldn't be allowed to do it" kind of suggestion.
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Unread 25 Jul 2012, 05:20   #34
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

but its not "easy roids" its an experienced player playing the game so that he only gets hit in the last 100 or so ticks of the round, its a tactic that is not available to people who start at tick 0 as everyone is able to be hit.
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Unread 25 Jul 2012, 05:46   #35
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

I vote remove it completely. Keep fund in place, if those signing up late or resetting, manage to find their way in to a gal that will let them abuse the fund then go for it... at least this way you make it harder for someone to jump straight in to a decent gal and use this target. And then everyone has the same chance of playing late starter.
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Unread 25 Jul 2012, 07:23   #36
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

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Originally Posted by t3k View Post
Okay, so - late starters are designed to allow for people to join in and play who maybe weren't available at PT0. Or even people who've suffered catastrophic starts to the round etc. With these people coming in late (whatever the reason) - they get the same 24-hour protection as everyone else did, but they're joining the game at a time when every other planet has over 300 ticks advantage on them.

From my understanding, people using the fund to hide res and keep value down do so purely so that they can stock up to 50m/each to give them 500k value worth of ships at a time when they're more confidently able to 'join in' on a level with everyone else.

It seems to me that people just don't like the fact that there can be a planet here or there that has more roids than them that they can't hit. Might this be more to do with people's frustration that they can't get at these "easy roids" of late starters, so want to rule the 'tactic' out?

It just seems like a "If I can't roid them, they shouldn't be allowed to do it" kind of suggestion.
The strategy of late starting and hiding res in funds involves not actually playing the entire game. I don't mean the first 300 ticks of the round there, I mean the 600 that follow. No matter how fat you are, being tiny means you get no significant incs, relative to your larger but less fat gal mates. That is the main gripe I have with it. It's a lot like being in vacation mode, except your income doesn't drop.

Additionally, it allows people to take bigger risks with exiling, because hey, if you don't get a spot in a fortress gal, you can always sign up late for one.

I don't think that's a way of playing that should be encouraged.
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Unread 25 Jul 2012, 07:32   #37
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

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Originally Posted by t3k View Post
Okay, so - late starters are designed to allow for people to join in and play who maybe weren't available at PT0. Or even people who've suffered catastrophic starts to the round etc. With these people coming in late (whatever the reason) - they get the same 24-hour protection as everyone else did, but they're joining the game at a time when every other planet has over 300 ticks advantage on them.

From my understanding, people using the fund to hide res and keep value down do so purely so that they can stock up to 50m/each to give them 500k value worth of ships at a time when they're more confidently able to 'join in' on a level with everyone else.

It seems to me that people just don't like the fact that there can be a planet here or there that has more roids than them that they can't hit. Might this be more to do with people's frustration that they can't get at these "easy roids" of late starters, so want to rule the 'tactic' out?

It just seems like a "If I can't roid them, they shouldn't be allowed to do it" kind of suggestion.
If they want to join and play thats fine, but they dont really join and play in my opinion. They use a trick to avoid taking part of the game until the very end. When they do join it is not on level with everyone else, they by far surpass the average planet in rank. Up until that point they havent attacked except with pod fleets on noob targets, had any incoming, or sent a single defense fleet worth mentioning, but suddenly they are higher in rank than most of the people that played from PT0.

Removing the possibility to stash value in the galaxy fund wont generate any easy targets, because now the late starters will have to play the regular game so they wont be mega fat. They will only be able to roid noobs with pod fleets for a few days. Also bash limit means that they will still only be targeted by other players within their value range, so do they really need the additional protection? All the other planets in the universe dont get that special protection... Most latestarters are in decent alliances and galaxies (duh) so they should be fine.

I started late (PT 107) and random this round and managed to end #4 in the universe without hiding value, so I guess its not impossible to play the game without hiding value.
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Unread 25 Jul 2012, 08:19   #38
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

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Originally Posted by MiX View Post

I started late (PT 107) and random this round and managed to end #4 in the universe without hiding value, so I guess its not impossible to play the game without hiding value.
maybe because you had no significant incs until pt 1k?

I think most latestarters actually do build value rather fast (2-300 ticks after entering - guess that could be discussed if fast enough)

Those that dont usually got a sensible reason not to.

I can take my own example last round.

pt 350ish I got wiped at planet due to repeatedly incs for 200 ticks every night (fail at R/H and uncovered waves) - lost 1 mill value)

Pt 350-900 I kept low value basically due to the fact that I would be bashed senseless had I built value (is it an exploit to avoid incs when you get blocked against hard? - maybe so, however it made good sense in our gal - I had limited online time during summer so I canalized all my income to the more active planets (who still got roided hard) - ending up with donating 2+ mill value to ult planets in my gal.

50 mill donation every 200 ticks makes a few, so in my case it wasn't like I hid 500 mill in fund. no the resources came to use both in ally and gal.

Question remains if this strategy is faux, and should be frowned upon.

those of you who remember pre pax remebers how planets could be attacked by each other in gal. Certain people capitalized on this creating galaxies where players where there with the only purpose of providing roids for 2-3 top planets in gal (who were usually insanely active, and therefore put the value to most use.

Personally I don't prefer playing the game like that, but I must say I'm a winner by heart, and if the scenario looks like I would get roided for 600 ticks straight due to a pre round formed block, i'd rather give my income to an active ally mate, who can put good use of the ships. (hey drac )

Also this brings up a discussion about activity playing levels, certain not so active players could contribute vastly to alliance/gal with this example, without a nightly activity of 2+ hours. Maybe not a bad thing?? (hey CT)
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Unread 25 Jul 2012, 08:42   #39
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

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Originally Posted by Killeah View Post
maybe because you had no significant incs until pt 1k?

I think most latestarters actually do build value rather fast (2-300 ticks after entering - guess that could be discussed if fast enough)

Those that dont usually got a sensible reason not to.

I can take my own example last round.

pt 350ish I got wiped at planet due to repeatedly incs for 200 ticks every night (fail at R/H and uncovered waves) - lost 1 mill value)

Pt 350-900 I kept low value basically due to the fact that I would be bashed senseless had I built value (is it an exploit to avoid incs when you get blocked against hard? - maybe so, however it made good sense in our gal - I had limited online time during summer so I canalized all my income to the more active planets (who still got roided hard) - ending up with donating 2+ mill value to ult planets in my gal.

50 mill donation every 200 ticks makes a few, so in my case it wasn't like I hid 500 mill in fund. no the resources came to use both in ally and gal.

Question remains if this strategy is faux, and should be frowned upon.

those of you who remember pre pax remebers how planets could be attacked by each other in gal. Certain people capitalized on this creating galaxies where players where there with the only purpose of providing roids for 2-3 top planets in gal (who were usually insanely active, and therefore put the value to most use.

Personally I don't prefer playing the game like that, but I must say I'm a winner by heart, and if the scenario looks like I would get roided for 600 ticks straight due to a pre round formed block, i'd rather give my income to an active ally mate, who can put good use of the ships. (hey drac )

Also this brings up a discussion about activity playing levels, certain not so active players could contribute vastly to alliance/gal with this example, without a nightly activity of 2+ hours. Maybe not a bad thing?? (hey CT)
Helping your alliance when you are in a not so great position is very nice, and not something I want to get rid of. However, I feel you are still able to help your alliance as a small, not very active planet without roids even if you cant donate resources. You could use the resources to make ships and send those on defense for example. Getting roided doesnt mean that you wont be able to keep ships.

I dont think we should limit valid play styles but for reasons that I have stated here previously, and that I have seen nobody seriously challenge, I dont think that hiding value in galfund is a valid play style.

Also, you are right, I didnt get much incoming (actually very little, even at the end). Part of the reason was my alliance, another part was me being a bad target (I like to think). It may not be that easy for another late starter, but why should it be?

Bottomline is, we need more players taking part in the game, not people roiding noobs down and effectively being un-targetable.
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Unread 25 Jul 2012, 09:02   #40
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

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Originally Posted by Killeah View Post
I can take my own example last round.

pt 350ish I got wiped at planet due to repeatedly incs for 200 ticks every night (fail at R/H and uncovered waves) - lost 1 mill value)

Pt 350-900 I kept low value basically due to the fact that I would be bashed senseless had I built value (is it an exploit to avoid incs when you get blocked against hard? - maybe so, however it made good sense in our gal - I had limited online time during summer so I canalized all my income to the more active planets (who still got roided hard) - ending up with donating 2+ mill value to ult planets in my gal.

50 mill donation every 200 ticks makes a few, so in my case it wasn't like I hid 500 mill in fund. no the resources came to use both in ally and gal.

Question remains if this strategy is faux, and should be frowned upon.
Or you could use the example of your galaxy mate and fellow latestarter of the last 2 rounds Mikee.

****ed about exiling for 300 ticks, trying to get into the 'special gal', failed.

Late signed up at tick 336 into said 'special gal', got nearly 4k roids yet had under 1 mill score/value until tick 800+ - spent all his resources at tick 900ish and in Rd 46 and jumped to like 4th in the universe. He hadnt sent a single def fleet in that time as he had only pods, had only roided n00bs for all his roids.

I like the guy but its such an abuse of a feature designed for people who werent around for first 2 weeks. I want to see it removed completely aswell. But then i would also like to see the self exile system to be removed too. That way people will have to pay out their pocket properly for a galaxy to exile them rather than the current trend of 'lend me the resources and the gal fund gets it back when i go' which is just as bad as latestarting tbh.

The game shouldnt allow for players to abuse the rules in place to constantly create a galaxy with the same 8-9 players every round in it. The idea of galaxies is randomness and meeting new players and teaching newer players. If the PA team want the players to be able to have the same teams of 8-9 players round in round out then why dont you do paid private galaxies instead??
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Unread 25 Jul 2012, 09:41   #41
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

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Originally Posted by MiX View Post
You could use the resources to make ships and send those on defense for example. Getting roided doesnt mean that you wont be able to keep ships.
Certainly, and the scenario I'd enjoy the most, myself. This goes back to my point about winning. I knew the value income from my roids would dissappear if I built value cause I would get roided - this refers to a lot of reasons, most being the way ult defence works. Bottom line I would loose those roids cause I couldn't be on to dc my incs. And my 3 fleets would be of limited use as I wouldn't be on to send in time.
My situation left me little choice if I took the perspective of getting most for my gal/ally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiX View Post
I dont think we should limit valid play styles but for reasons that I have stated here previously, and that I have seen nobody seriously challenge, I dont think that hiding value in galfund is a valid play style.
Ok I officially challenge it then, it is a valid playstyle for people with limited online time who want to contribute to (other ally/gal members)



Quote:
Originally Posted by MiX View Post
Bottomline is, we need more players taking part in the game, not people roiding noobs down and effectively being un-targetable.

I agree, not sure changeing gal fund is the solution though. I fear it would put some latestarters completely off signing up, due to the fact that the choice of being latestart in the first place might be due to limited play/online time in the said round.
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Unread 25 Jul 2012, 09:50   #42
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

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I fear it would put some latestarters completely off signing up, due to the fact that the choice of being latestart in the first place might be due to limited play/online time in the said round.
That is a complete nonsense because the latestarters that everyone has a gripe with sign up at tick 0 anyway and then resign up after failing to get in their specific galaxy. They are the same 5-6 people who abuse this feature regularly, who are actually quite ingame active and are basically just avioding incs to get a good rank.

If under Ultores' defence system you cant defend yourself then maybe you should play in different alliance, i heard CT runs an epic DCing system that might suit you.

The game shouldnt bend to your needs because you cant get online to cover your own calls, you should find a legimate way to play in the manner your able to. Otherwise where is the reward for people being active? Thats like saying for example it doesnt matter if MiX puts in 20 hrs a day to get 4th in the universe because killeah can only put in 6hrs a day but hes a good player so he should be able to rank as high as well using a feature that means he doesnt have incommings to be active for.
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Unread 25 Jul 2012, 09:58   #43
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

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Or you could use the example of your galaxy mate and fellow latestarter of the last 2 rounds Mikee.

****ed about exiling for 300 ticks, trying to get into the 'special gal', failed.

Late signed up at tick 336 into said 'special gal', got nearly 4k roids yet had under 1 mill score/value until tick 800+ - spent all his resources at tick 900ish and in Rd 46 and jumped to like 4th in the universe. He hadnt sent a single def fleet in that time as he had only pods, had only roided n00bs for all his roids.

The game shouldnt allow for players to abuse the rules in place to constantly create a galaxy with the same 8-9 players every round in it. The idea of galaxies is randomness and meeting new players and teaching newer players. If the PA team want the players to be able to have the same teams of 8-9 players round in round out then why dont you do paid private galaxies instead??
You could argue if mikee takes the example too far, I'm not going to, as that would be for him to answer/decide upon.

I can however explain the mechanics about how you do it, and its not just a simple launch on noobs. And for that reason alone, very few if any besides him is able to do it on a scale where you go to top 10 as laste starter.

It requires repeatedly launch/recall on a hourly basis, you need to rotate fleets 24/7 a failed land or def means instant recall, and set alarm at all possible odd hours to keep everything flying all the time.

once you hit 1500+ roids (which isn't that much on your avg uni), attacking targets gets hard, your value from size alone puts you outside bash limit on all planets without fleet, it means you need to adjust fleet scan for numerous targs daily (+30 usually), in attempt to find the desired target.

This is the reason why most latestarters build value at this point -depending on the activity of the latestart this could be tick 5-600.

Once you hit 2500+ roids you cant hit anything without escorts and a "land" fleet. Basically due to the targets in your range all are set in allies and got certain fleet setups.

To actually get enough resources to go to top 10 you need to stock early thus also build your value, so another risk factor here in terms of bash range.

In the end you need 1 huge or 2-3 decent XP lands in order to match your value with xp and get that last inch of score needed. For that you need escorts you need multiple launches at late hours for several days straight until it works out 8if it even does)

Bottom line is that, I would wager that very few if any at all of the latestarters are putting this effort into getting it to that level.

And it's no easy relaxed feat, it's hard ****ing work, day in day out.

------------

Wether its right or wrong, well I guess thats still to be discussed. But its certainly easier to sit in an alliance, who gets 0 incs due to politics, and the ability to 2/3 fleet attack on organized gal/ally raids with a decent coverage
and roid to 3k roids.

I've tried both options so I belive I got a frame of refrence here.
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Unread 25 Jul 2012, 10:29   #44
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

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Originally Posted by Killeah View Post
You could argue if mikee takes the example too far, I'm not going to, as that would be for him to answer/decide upon.

I can however explain the mechanics about how you do it, and its not just a simple launch on noobs. And for that reason alone, very few if any besides him is able to do it on a scale where you go to top 10 as laste starter.

It requires repeatedly launch/recall on a hourly basis, you need to rotate fleets 24/7 a failed land or def means instant recall, and set alarm at all possible odd hours to keep everything flying all the time.

once you hit 1500+ roids (which isn't that much on your avg uni), attacking targets gets hard, your value from size alone puts you outside bash limit on all planets without fleet, it means you need to adjust fleet scan for numerous targs daily (+30 usually), in attempt to find the desired target.

This is the reason why most latestarters build value at this point -depending on the activity of the latestart this could be tick 5-600.

Once you hit 2500+ roids you cant hit anything without escorts and a "land" fleet. Basically due to the targets in your range all are set in allies and got certain fleet setups.

To actually get enough resources to go to top 10 you need to stock early thus also build your value, so another risk factor here in terms of bash range.

In the end you need 1 huge or 2-3 decent XP lands in order to match your value with xp and get that last inch of score needed. For that you need escorts you need multiple launches at late hours for several days straight until it works out 8if it even does)

Bottom line is that, I would wager that very few if any at all of the latestarters are putting this effort into getting it to that level.

And it's no easy relaxed feat, it's hard ****ing work, day in day out.

------------

So basically the reasons YOU gave for justifying the latestarter abuse is complete bollocks as your saying it takes vast amounts of activity to do to this method yeah?


Remember the arguement isnt above the 'average joe 600 roids ranking 200' latestarter its about the select few which includes yourself and mikee that use this feature to avoid incs and gain a high rank with relative ease compared to those around you who struggle for PT0 to do the same
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Unread 25 Jul 2012, 11:09   #45
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

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So basically the reasons YOU gave for justifying the latestarter abuse is complete bollocks as your saying it takes vast amounts of activity to do to this method yeah?
Yes and no.

The select few (mikee and me), I wonder if anyone else in uni practices it, is the subject of your concern, yes.

The 99.9% other latestarters aren't.

Now the question stands if this should be implemented for the sake of a select few, who is spending vast amounts of time doing it anyway (hence contributing to a gaming community.

On that subject, I think it shouldn't. And that the universe should live with the fact that a certain few are willing to spend the amount of time doing it.

AND

just to clairify it for you kai since you didn't play this round and all, I did it two rounds ago, last round I started from scrath in BG PT 0 - the regular way.

I also did this round, but had other issues as explained above, hence my (many 2300) roids and low value for some time. This resulted in a rank as 232 this round, with most of my value donated to other gal members. As I had little time do be online and play actively.

so there's three scenarios here

1. The usual latestart pt 5-600 score gain move on (good cop)

2. The scenario I had this round with limited online time (semi good cop)

3. The last evil one where a latestart spends stupid amounts of time to achieve big in every way, as described, (bad cop)


Now of the 3 scenarioes how many of each do you think actually plays out during a round??

my bet is 80/19/1 percent.
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Unread 25 Jul 2012, 12:58   #46
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

How many late starters actually signup every round? I'd bet maximum 25, out of those, how many hide their resources in the gal fund to stay small, newb bash all hours of the day and avoid incs? I'd say the majority, if my late starter WASN'T doing that, I'd be a little concerned! As pointed out by the majority in this thread, this shouldn't be a valid tactic, and I completely agree.
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Unread 25 Jul 2012, 13:29   #47
Killeah
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

Quote:
Originally Posted by VenoX View Post
As pointed out by the majority in this thread, this shouldn't be a valid tactic, and I completely agree.
Tbh, I agree that it could be controlled in a better way, but putting up limits for who can donate to fund is not the solution. As it will hit people who aren't abusing it. (refering to the OP suggestion)

The current problem resides in the fact that the 5% fee you pay for exchangeing resources exceeds the fund limit of 75 mill. Hence you can stack infinite amounts (allthough its shit annoying to do it)

two far better solutions would be:

1. Remove the 5% fee on gal fund make it 0% as its going to fund anyway, so people who are abusing it aren't affected by the fee costs anyway, as its a joint effort

2. make the 5% cost go out of gal, as on level with the etd uni, trading cost


Both solutions deals with the issue of keep stocking into fund, as a 1k+ roid income of 250k each res = 750k each tick fills the fund in 100 ticks = 4 days and a bit.

It would solve the issue that certain people find abusive and unethical. And keep the diversity of moving resources around in your galaxy as you please.
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Unread 25 Jul 2012, 14:34   #48
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

Quote:
Originally Posted by VenoX View Post
How many late starters actually signup every round? I'd bet maximum 25, out of those, how many hide their resources in the gal fund to stay small, newb bash all hours of the day and avoid incs? I'd say the majority, if my late starter WASN'T doing that, I'd be a little concerned! As pointed out by the majority in this thread, this shouldn't be a valid tactic, and I completely agree.
I have just counted them:

http://ultores.cheleb.net/planet/1.10.13/
http://ultores.cheleb.net/planet/1.2.12/
http://ultores.cheleb.net/planet/1.6.4/
http://ultores.cheleb.net/planet/1.8.13/
http://ultores.cheleb.net/planet/2.10.12/
http://ultores.cheleb.net/planet/3.2.13/
http://ultores.cheleb.net/planet/3.4.12/
http://ultores.cheleb.net/planet/3.5.13/
http://ultores.cheleb.net/planet/3.9.13/
http://ultores.cheleb.net/planet/4.4.11/
http://ultores.cheleb.net/planet/4.5.12/
http://ultores.cheleb.net/planet/4.6.13/
http://ultores.cheleb.net/planet/4.8.13/
http://ultores.cheleb.net/planet/4.9.10/
http://ultores.cheleb.net/planet/4.9.12/
http://ultores.cheleb.net/planet/5.2.9/
http://ultores.cheleb.net/planet/5.3.12/
http://ultores.cheleb.net/planet/5.3.13/
http://ultores.cheleb.net/planet/5.5.13/
http://ultores.cheleb.net/planet/6.9.13/
http://ultores.cheleb.net/planet/7.4.9/
http://ultores.cheleb.net/planet/7.9.12/

22!

(I looked for people who either signed up between tick 313 and 400, or who reset during the same period, excluding all planets who deleted before round end. There were about 60. Then I went over them all and checked if they had another exile listed within 24 ticks. That left 17. I also looked for people with no exiles who signed up between tick 336 and 450, to catch those who used their late sign code the very tick they signed up. There were 6 of those. I may have missed a couple, but I think the method is sound.)
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Unread 25 Jul 2012, 15:20   #49
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

agreed with the idea, would also love to see the idiotic tactic gone.
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Unread 26 Jul 2012, 04:42   #50
Mzyxptlk
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Re: Galaxy Fund Suggestion

Looks like we got our way.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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