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3 Feb 2012, 03:20
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#251
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
I wanted to make a counter for fr/de vs Bs so I made voyager init 1 so it was faster than guardian/roach but it targets at t2. And viper was to be slower than both beetle and spider.
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R50-55 Faceless
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8 Feb 2012, 03:35
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#252
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
its just made BS really shit to play as voyagers are so OP with the low init
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Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
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8 Feb 2012, 20:15
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#253
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Yes but they target at t2, which against etd bs is 88% effective. If you were to build your fleets right it wouldn't matter. But since no one has decided to go ter cr the round was able to just mass up on widows and voyagers instead of gryphone's and buccaneer. So we have a good old fashion hug fest all round long.
Because of all the emp around there is not enough fleets actually doing combat so everyone preserves value, in a war game that has no actual losses then yeah it's going to be shit. On top of that the political situation is just crap Ally's ganging up to bash xVx instead of Ult. So essentially we have 5 full allys only 1 of which is going for the round win.
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R50-55 Faceless
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9 Feb 2012, 04:43
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#254
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Honestly, both Bs fleets hugging Fr/De is a flaw.
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9 Feb 2012, 08:31
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#255
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Old Skool
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 278
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
tbh too much hug in general - by that I mean stats on huggers are a bit op, so people will eventually pick them for fleet setup (widow, voyager)
Combined with the fact that etd and cath are the best attk races in uni, and the obvious pairing in CO/BS - made uni full of hugs.
Stats could have prevented that - I guess you did learn something of doing the stats tiamat.
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9 Feb 2012, 08:54
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#256
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Looking back at it i'd have adjusted the etd co so it wasn't so easy to pair cat/etd. But that isnt the problem. Because everyone decided that zik/ter/xan are not attack worthy they picked emp based attack fleets. And when i mean everyone I mean the top 3 alliances.
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R50-55 Faceless
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9 Feb 2012, 13:08
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#257
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
I generally feel all EMP ships are overpowered with the viper as a prime example... an above 100% eff on T2... really?
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don't be an arse, join [TiT]
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9 Feb 2012, 16:31
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#258
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence
I generally feel all EMP ships are overpowered with the viper as a prime example... an above 100% eff on T2... really?
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Viper's efficiency on t2 has nothing to do with their strength this round. 110% is mediocre at best.
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10 Feb 2012, 09:06
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#259
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 50
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Cath is actual shite, the problem is that there are so many of em, hugging is always win in large numbers :-)
Cath eff's are actual lower than usual rounds where hugging are "win"
But when the top allies has 20-25% caths and no incs, they ofc get a huge value lead.
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19 Feb 2012, 08:54
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#260
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Registered Loser
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 38
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik
Cath is actual shite
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Disagree. Cath was given everything this round: init, salvage, research, targetting, guns, etc... What's not to like?!
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19 Feb 2012, 10:38
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#261
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Old Skool
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 278
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by tulsa
Disagree. Cath was given everything this round: init, salvage, research, targetting, guns, etc... What's not to like?!
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They are always given that - thatīs the point. And earlier rounds have given them even more.
Caths downside is the fact that everyone can roid them - and thus, caths are typically subject of loads of incs once we hit tick 7-800. This round however we got so many picking cath, due to ally strats and uni eta availability, something we already discussed (maybe also the anti DE issue).
Basically meaning that cath are facing way less incs, as other caths can pick whatever target they like, on gal raids and in wars.
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20 Feb 2012, 01:17
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#262
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Registered Loser
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 38
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killeah
They are always given that - thatīs the point.
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They are always given those advantages, but they're not always quite this strong. Not only are they the only race with 3 t3 ships, but theirs are all useful ships. 4 guns on the viper is rediculous - it should take more than one co to stop any one fr/de. And the least expensive ship in the game is the spider, which is insane with 2 guns and init 1.
When was the last multi targetting round where the t50 wasn't composed primarily of cath co?
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20 Feb 2012, 02:59
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#263
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by tulsa
When was the last multi targetting round where the t50 wasn't composed primarily of cath co?
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R41(mix of Ter/Cath/Etd and Fi/Co/Cr/Bs), when the #1 ally was mostly Fi/Co based, and the #2 ally was mostly Cr/Bs (granted with huge numbers of fi/co for faking purposes)
R39, Dominated by full EMP ETD Co.
R38, dominated by ETD Fr/De, largely based on EMP tho.
cant rlly remember r40... but think it was a mix of zik and cath...
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don't be an arse, join [TiT]
In the absence of the good old TiT alliance, look me up in VGN
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20 Feb 2012, 05:53
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#264
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
R43 was even more recent, having only 8 in top 50.
I guess I should be expecting people here to do no research before throwing out biased statements by now.
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20 Feb 2012, 06:42
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#265
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Registered Loser
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 38
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc
I guess I should be expecting people here to do no research before throwing out biased statements by now.
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I wasn't sure where to look, thanks to you both for the info. Where did it come from?
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20 Feb 2012, 07:54
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#266
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Cath eff's aren't even that amazing this round, Yes they have good #'s vs Vshaark and spirit but i made that on purpose. As vs everything else they are mid-high 150's on the t1's. And most of them are around 100 for t2. The problem isn't cath #'s. Because they didnt get the init strength, spiders beats cat co, and voyager beats cat bs. So I don't really understand where thats coming from.
The problem is because of the political situation with xvx and ult. Since both allys went a co/bs strat they have alot of Cath, and since no one else possess good attack strength no one is losing value.
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R50-55 Faceless
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20 Feb 2012, 08:23
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#267
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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1 Mar 2012, 08:54
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#268
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 50
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Tulsa: Usual caths has eff's around 175% when cath have good rounds, it's way less this round.
I think it's balanced stats this round, except the voy, and it's a problem that de/bs anti-cr/bs is targeting each class - but only cuz of ally's race %
The main problem is as Tia stated the politics... which has been the worst ever.
Fang = stupid pussies
Ult = smarter pussies
xvx = pussies
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1 Mar 2012, 10:38
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#269
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 734
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
no, its because the game is broken.. nothing interesting can happen, since nothing is changed.. it just happened that this round ppl got more bored as they usually get and it died faster..
i know that to some this already gets annoying (me posting in every thread about the need to change something totally), but im still gonna do that in a hope that someone that actually has a say, in what planetarion should do or should not do, notices it and thinks about it :P
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VISION FTW
THIS IS ULTORES
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1 Mar 2012, 21:00
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#270
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Planetarion Forum Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Stats makers should never blame the results of their stats on "game politics." Politics don't determine whether stats are balanced, defensive or offensive in nature.
I agree the stats were fairly well balanced, but they are defensive in nature, making it very hard to attack up the value chain. In my opinion this is a failing, as it makes it very hard to take down the top players/alliances. But I understand there is a group of players who love to fortress, and hate any set of stats that doesn't allow them to easily do that. This is what has happened this round, and it has made the round boring, regardless of the politics at play. The simple fact is that after tick 500 or so it became very hard to land, and other than crashes, mistakes, and cheating there has been very little movement in the ranks ever since, partially because many players have given up playing this round, precisely because they can't land... so why bother trying?
So "meh" to defensive stats, no matter how well balanced.
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Romans 10:9-10
#strategy
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2 Mar 2012, 18:47
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#271
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
I'm someone who has always loved MT stats and 'fortressing' with 3 ships when possible, but it has become very clear to me recently that these things are toxic to the game. What makes the game fun is not covering 10 incoming fleets with 3 defensive ones (although I'm sure I'd get a giggle out of it); it's attacking and capping roids.
I'm very much pro-ST now, or MT with minimal t3s and only a handful of t2s. This round has only confirmed this, it was incredibly hard to land solo (it was worse because I went Etd Co (I had pods)) and the game got boring even faster than usual.
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2 Mar 2012, 22:39
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#272
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Planetarion Forum Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc
\What makes the game fun is not covering 10 incoming fleets with 3 defensive ones (although I'm sure I'd get a giggle out of it); it's attacking and capping roids.\
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I couldn't have said it better myself, and this is exactly why I prefer attack oriented stats. People generally don't give up when they get roided, they give up after many nights of trying unsuccessfully to land an attack.
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Romans 10:9-10
#strategy
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