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Unread 1 Jun 2003, 23:10   #1
Dookie Velvet
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This is a thread about grammar
Which is more grammatically correct?

"we haven't gotten a chance to prove our worth yet."

Or

"we haven't got a chance to prove our worth yet."
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Unread 1 Jun 2003, 23:13   #2
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The first, although got or gotten should be replaced with "been given".
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Unread 1 Jun 2003, 23:13   #3
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Re: This is a thread about grammar
Quote:
Originally posted by Dookie Velvet
"we haven't got a chance to prove out worth yet."
I guess option 1 would be the winner by default then
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Unread 1 Jun 2003, 23:14   #4
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The argument I'm faced with is that gotten doesn't officially count as a word.
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Unread 1 Jun 2003, 23:14   #5
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Re: Re: This is a thread about grammar
Quote:
Originally posted by Gayle29uk
I guess option 1 would be the winner by default then
I posted correcting that as well, but he did redeem himself... so i deleted it so no one would notice, you're just mean!
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Unread 1 Jun 2003, 23:15   #6
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"We havent been given a chance to prove our worth yet
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Unread 1 Jun 2003, 23:17   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dookie Velvet
Which is more grammatically correct?
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Unread 1 Jun 2003, 23:23   #8
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Both are wrong. It should be:

"we haven't had a chance to prove our worth yet"

By the way, if "gotten" isn't a word, what are "ill-gotten gains"?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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Unread 1 Jun 2003, 23:26   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
By the way, if "gotten" isn't a word, what are "ill-gotten gains"?
Slang.

Btw wouldn't "We have yet to be given a chance to prove our worth" be better grammar?
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Unread 1 Jun 2003, 23:29   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by CjC
Slang.

Btw wouldn't "We have yet to be given a chance to prove our worth" be better grammar?
http://www.dictionary.com says "gotten" is a past participle of "got".

"I had the chance to do something" and "I was given the chance to do something" mean slightly different things.

And the placement of "yet" is stylistic, not grammatical.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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Unread 2 Jun 2003, 05:54   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
http://www.dictionary.com says "gotten" is a past participle of "got".
American English though isn't it?
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Unread 2 Jun 2003, 08:34   #12
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Sing, a song about myself....
Oh, and if its in any way formal don't use "gotten"
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Last edited by SYMM; 2 Jun 2003 at 08:43.
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Unread 2 Jun 2003, 11:04   #13
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forgotten :O
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Unread 2 Jun 2003, 11:12   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by SYMM
Sing, a song about myself....
Oh, and if its in any way formal don't use "gotten"
I didn't say it was formal, or good English. I merely said that it was a word, which it is.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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Unread 2 Jun 2003, 11:25   #15
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I wasn't talking to you proteus.
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Unread 2 Jun 2003, 12:22   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
http://www.dictionary.com says "gotten" is a past participle of "got".

"I had the chance to do something" and "I was given the chance to do something" mean slightly different things.

And the placement of "yet" is stylistic, not grammatical.
How can you have a past participle of a past participle? seeing as 'got' is the past participle of 'get'.

'Gotten' isn't in the english dictionary.
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Unread 2 Jun 2003, 12:25   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Obliterate
How can you have a past participle of a past participle? seeing as 'got' is the past participle of 'get'.

'Gotten' isn't in the english dictionary.
You can have alternate past participles.

Quote:
From the OED

GOTTEN
1. Obtained, acquired, won (chiefly with accompanying adverb). Now rare, exc. in ILL-GOTTEN.
Your dictionary is clearly poor.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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Unread 2 Jun 2003, 13:05   #18
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got/gotten change to had.
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Unread 2 Jun 2003, 13:19   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Freakozoid
got/gotten change to had.
Like I said.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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Unread 2 Jun 2003, 15:32   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
Both are wrong. It should be:

"we haven't had a chance to prove our worth yet"
This is correct.

Also, 'gotten' might technically be a word, but the connotations of a word define at least half of its meaning, and I suspect that a lot of people will associate the use of "gotten" in most contexts with poor English.
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Unread 2 Jun 2003, 15:36   #21
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I was replying to this:

Quote:
Originally posted by Dookie Velvet
The argument I'm faced with is that gotten doesn't officially count as a word.
Everyone just assumed I was condoning its use in proper English.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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Unread 2 Jun 2003, 15:39   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
I was replying to this:



Everyone just assumed I was condoning its use in proper English.
You should have taken the "what does it mean for a word to be 'official'?" angle instead :/
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Unread 2 Jun 2003, 18:39   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Obliterate
'Gotten' isn't in the english dictionary.
it's not in the Oxford English Dictionary (which, quite frankly, is the only one that counts) but at a rough guess i'd say that 'gotten' is a colloquial term and therefore should only be used in informal writing or speaking, and then only rarely.
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Unread 2 Jun 2003, 19:08   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Demon Dave
it's not in the Oxford English Dictionary (which, quite frankly, is the only one that counts)
Someone hasn't been paying attention...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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Unread 2 Jun 2003, 20:18   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Demon Dave
it's not in the Oxford English Dictionary
Quote:
Proteus++
Quote:
From the OED

GOTTEN
1. Obtained, acquired, won (chiefly with accompanying adverb). Now rare, exc. in ILL-GOTTEN.
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Unread 2 Jun 2003, 20:21   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
You can have alternate past participles.



Your dictionary is clearly poor.
hmm, i stand corrected.

*throws dictionary in bin*
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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 11:23   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
Someone hasn't been paying attention...
well it's not in my version
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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 11:53   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Demon Dave
well it's not in my version
You obviously don't have access to the online complete OED.

Someone's got an abridged edition*!

*Which is to be expected, the full one takes about 10 trucks to carry around.
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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 12:29   #29
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i'm not surprised. and you're right, my version is the pocket Dictionary/Thesaurus combo. IT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE ANTI-DISTABLISMENTARISM (or however it's spelt) IN IT!!!!!! what is the world coming to?
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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 12:44   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Demon Dave
i'm not surprised. and you're right, my version is the pocket Dictionary/Thesaurus combo. IT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE ANTI-DISTABLISMENTARISM (or however it's spelt) IN IT!!!!!! what is the world coming to?
That would be "antidisestablishmentarianism".
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He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 12:46   #31
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Originally posted by Proteus
That would be "antidisestablishmentarianism".
it does have a hyphen in it, which is why it isn't in the dictionary I believe
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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 12:48   #32
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Originally posted by Radical Edward
it does have a hyphen in it, which is why it isn't in the dictionary I believe
Quote:
From the OED

antidisestablishmentarianism
Properly, opposition to the disestablishment of the Church of England (rare): but popularly cited as an example of a long word.
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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 12:51   #33
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This is why I love JANet.

That and single figure pings and basically unlimited downloading bandwidth.
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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 12:53   #34
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sorry, I didn't notice it was you saying that or I would have believed you. I thought it had a hypehn in it though
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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 12:53   #35
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This is why I love JANet.

That and single figure pings and basically unlimited downloading bandwidth.
not at IC, well unless you are in the uni. the halls access is terrible. like 56k++
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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 12:54   #36
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sorry, I didn't notice it was you saying that or I would have believed you. I thought it had a hypehn in it though
Wow. I'm considered trustworthy!

This deserves a dancing banana.

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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 12:55   #37
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Wow. I'm considered trustworthy!

This deserves a dancing banana.
well you have access to the OED. there is literally no point argueing about wirds with you. we might as well argue about what is on my desk.
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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 12:58   #38
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we might as well argue about what is on my desk.
Could we? That might be fun!
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He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 12:59   #39
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Could we? That might be fun!
well have a guess. though it could take me some time to find out if you are right or not.
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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 12:59   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
Could we? That might be fun!
I have 2 gamecube controllers, a Dangermouse, several crisp packets, a couple of ethernet cards, other computer stuff, a bottle of grolsch and the Penguin Dictionary of Curious and Interesting Numbers, among other things.
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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 13:02   #41
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Penguin Dictionary of Curious and Interesting Numbers

enlighten us about a curious and interesting number.
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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 13:03   #42
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Well I'm guessing both of you have computers.

Possibly some scrap paper, maybe a pen or pencil as well.

I give up.
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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 13:04   #43
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2 computers actually. 6 packets of green tea, one mug, lots of paper and research papers, 3 books on programming, 2 books on quantum mechanics, one book on optics, some other books, some ink, some toilet paper, a used tissue a calculator and a highlighter pen.
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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 13:05   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Radical Edward
enlighten us about a curious and interesting number.
145

145 = 1! + 4! + 5!

The only other numbers that are the sum of the factorials of their digits are 1, 2 and 40585.

It is also the 4th number to be the sum of 2 squares in two different ways.

145 =12^2 + 1^2 = 8^2 + 9^2
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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 13:06   #45
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I guess the dictionary is in numerical order then?


tell us another
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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 13:27   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by Radical Edward
I guess the dictionary is in numerical order then?


tell us another
Graham's Number. It's the biggest finite number with any point.

It's an upper bound in Ramsey theory, and it needs it's own notation to describe it.

Let 3^3 = 9, as it usually does.

Let 3^^3 = 3^(3^3)

3^^^3 = 3^^(3^^3) = 3^^7625597484987 = 3^7625597484987^7625597484987.

3^^^^3 = 3^^^(3^^^3), of course, and so on.

Now consider the number 3^^^.....^^^3, where the numbers of arrows is equal to 3^^^^3 (or 3^7625597484987^7625597484987).

Now have a number, 3^^^....^^^3, where the number of arrows is the value of the number you just obtained.

Repeat this for a further 61 iterations and you have Graham's Number.

They think the answer's about 6.
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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 13:29   #47
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This is a thread about numbers
what's Ramsey theory then?
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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 13:31   #48
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Re: This is a thread about numbers
Quote:
Originally posted by Radical Edward
what's Ramsey theory then?
Something from combinatorics.
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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 13:32   #49
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Re: Re: This is a thread about numbers
what's combinatorics then?
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Unread 3 Jun 2003, 13:38   #50
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Re: Re: Re: This is a thread about numbers
Quote:
Originally posted by Radical Edward
what's combinatorics then?
It's what Ramsey theory's a part of.

Anyway.

Numerology!

46.

Psalm 46 to be precise.

The 46th word is shake.

The 46th word from the end is spear.

The translation was completed in 1610, when Shakespeare was 46.
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