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Unread 15 Sep 2016, 14:50   #251
Hunterrrr
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

Eksero please stop with the emo ok!
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Unread 15 Sep 2016, 14:53   #252
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by eksero View Post
By the looks of it you just weren't good enough bro!
I suppose the declining playerbase benefits you more than most
Leave the nub alone eksero, guy can't even count, 3 fleets every day, seen only 2. Maybe he means he is flying 3 ticks till he notices its covered
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Unread 16 Sep 2016, 01:04   #253
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

http://game.planetarion.com/show_new...xwh6te6a1d1b9c
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Unread 16 Sep 2016, 08:46   #254
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

Calculated.
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Unread 17 Sep 2016, 13:10   #255
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

The way bows are crashing i think they themselves are set on a mission to make Norse #2
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Unread 17 Sep 2016, 13:23   #256
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by winY View Post
The way bows are crashing i think they themselves are set on a mission to make Norse #2
I hear GenChaos made a deal to get Norse #2. Find it a bit sad myself that an HC sells his alliance out to try and get into Norse.
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Unread 18 Sep 2016, 17:25   #257
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

It looks like the block has given up again.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that p3n pulled out on day 2.
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Unread 18 Sep 2016, 18:03   #258
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

Your guesses aren't accurate. P3ng was top launcher.
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Unread 18 Sep 2016, 20:11   #259
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
It looks like the block has given up again.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that p3n pulled out on day 2.
Much as I'm not a fan of clouds baiting, when you are against a top level enemy you have to stick at it. Even if it puts you at a disadvantage to the others in your block. In the end it's the choice between having a chance of winning and certain defeat. Worry about them later when the big guy is out of the way.

Have seen it happen time and time again from the very beginning of PA. The difference now of course is that few alliances are willing to put themselves on the line to maximise their chance of winning. I'd always take a 10% shot over nothing. And it's not as if it hasn't happened (spore's famous defeat for instance). Hard to play as an underdog when most alliances have no desire to compete.
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Unread 18 Sep 2016, 20:14   #260
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

Well, I think this thread has become mostly a tit-for-tat between two allies. But there are 600 or whatever number of players playing, and frankly, it's about the game.

We never challenged Ult before tick 800, and that was not accidental, sorry, it was in keeping with our friendship despite what we perceived as earlier betrayal by Ult. Don't want to get into that. Chalk it up to bad communications, I think. I take half the blame for that.

By the time we went at Ult they obviously had a commanding lead. But it was in the spirit of what I have been asking for all round, competition. I asked for a Challenge War three times, I proposed a Top Four tournament to several pols in the game, I have been talking incessantly about the need to keep the game open and fresh and include all the players.

In the end, this is about quite a few alliances that are tired of Naptarion and bottom feeding, including us (yes we have been guilty of that). People can try to change the dialogue and say "stagnation? what's that?", but sorry, all we heard for a long time is how we were ruining the game with too strong an alliance between two top contenders.

Bows did not create the block that came at Ult finally, we just finally agreed it was time to open up the game and go for the top ally, the way the game really has actually been played on most rounds dating back to r3 at least, when I started. We joined in. That's important because the players of Pa need to give credit to the alliances and leaders who dared to break it up, mix it up, and create a game that was fun to play again. It didn't change Ult's commanding lead, but it did open up the game and change the dynamics... look at all the subsequent ally fights.

Probably Bows will be the scapegoat but that is not accurate... but ok if ppl have to find one. Look at what this group of alliances did - we have all the top 6 jousting for ranks or settling scores, we have challenge wars going on, everybody is playing, and nobody is bottom feeding.

Excuse me??? Is this not a great outcome for this round? And it is open despite only having 600 players, which is no small feat. Are not more players saying this round is more fun and interesting than recent rounds? Aren't small players no longer being farmed, as allies fight allies closest to their own size?

So we can make this about one decision that was made, but seriously, it is a movement in the game and I credit all the people who acted independently this round and mixed it up. Even the ones that I would like to smack in pm, lol, like Buly, who has dared to take some very unpopular stances including attacking us. (btw I like u Buly, just dissing you)

I think this is a great round for Pa. Kudos to CT, p3ngs, Norse, VGN, and all the allies who broke out and did whatever they thought made sense at the time, and dared to mix it up and risk all. Maybe time to get over the emo and insults and blaming and have fun. Guess what? Next round is wide open, and not pre-determined. That is the final gift of R68 to R69, an open game again.

Last edited by Gen_Chaos; 18 Sep 2016 at 20:20.
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Unread 18 Sep 2016, 22:12   #261
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

What is a "Challenge War"?
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Unread 18 Sep 2016, 23:13   #262
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gen_Chaos View Post
Yeah, I freely admit that I do not know what is going on between you two, and I am sure what you say is true. But we acted on what we could see, and the fact that Ult ignores my pms and requests, and watching what appeared to happen, leaves room for us to be paranoid. If Ult doesn't want us to mistake what is going on, they could try talking to the Bows Politician. They know where to find me on WA, TG or IRC. Being ignored is going to result in paranoia, and I make no excuse for that.

We never challenged Ult before tick 800, and that was not accidental, sorry, it was in keeping with our friendship despite what we perceived as earlier betrayal by Ult. Don't want to get into that. Chalk it up to bad communications, I think. I take half the blame for that.
You making up things to justify actions and sharing them on the forums. You knew full well there was no deal. The only thing you didnt know is that Ultores would not form a block with the top3 alliances, like you suggested by Ultores ignoring p3nguins.

Quote:
When I had massive political pressure on us earlier in the round to hit Ult and stop stagnating the game, I asked Ult at least 5 times what we could do to break up the stagnation, and I suggested a "Challenge War" at tick 1000, a 3x3, whatever. No answers.

By the time we went at Ult they obviously had a commanding lead. But it was in the spirit of what I have been asking for all round, competition. I asked for a Challenge War three times, I proposed a Top Four tournament to several pols in the game, I have been talking incessantly about the need to keep the game open and fresh and include all the players.
Genchaos:
"xxx" doesn't want to challenge anybody to a "fun" war, as expected. From our side we would like to continue our relationship as it has been... full avoid until we both discuss otherwise....
Pls let me know if u are good with that so I can confirm with our bcs

I like that you try to bring this up again and again, but atleast admit that it was your side that refused to fight us 1on1. Frankly you only dared to challenge Ultores when you had a block ready to do so. After being outvoted on your first attempt on blocking against ult. You got it in order the second time around.

Quote:
So the other allies in the game took it into their own hands to prevent Naptarion and stagnation, and I support their decision. In the end we thought we were being good friends to Ult till tick 800, but they were only handing us the short end of the stick and were obviously not going to help us. Increasing the inc on pengs when I asked them to back off, and not even answering my pm on that, is what broke it finally.
In the end, this is about quite a few alliances that are tired of Naptarion and bottom feeding, including us (yes we have been guilty of that). People can try to change the dialogue and say "stagnation? what's that?", but sorry, all we heard for a long time is how we were ruining the game with too strong an alliance between two top contenders.
You even comment that you asked us to stay away from ally #3, cause you wanted to work together with them aswell. If the top3 avoiding eachother does not scream stagnating I dont know what does. How would you ever justify blocking p3nguins, Ultores and Rainbows against alliance the size of HR and unsullied.

Quote:
Bows did not create the block that came at Ult finally, we just finally agreed it was time to open up the game and go for the top ally, the way the game really has actually been played on most rounds dating back to r3 at least, when I started. We joined in. That's important because the players of Pa need to give credit to the alliances and leaders who dared to break it up, mix it up, and create a game that was fun to play again. It didn't change Ult's commanding lead, but it did open up the game and change the dynamics... look at all the subsequent ally fights.
You lead an alliance, you lead it into destruction. You made founders quit and others go inactive. One might say you are a terrible leader. A leader does what is best for his members and stays true to its alliance goals. You failed miserably in both.

Quote:
Excuse me??? Is this not a great outcome for this round? And it is open despite only having 600 players, which is no small feat. Are not more players saying this round is more fun and interesting than recent rounds? Aren't small players no longer being farmed, as allies fight allies closest to their own size?
Claiming you did it for anything but personal glory is void. Last round you were in the exact same position and didnt do anything. The only difference was that this round it would not get you to win alliance.

Quote:
I think this is a great round for Pa. Kudos to CT, p3ngs, Norse, VGN, and all the allies who broke out and did whatever they thought made sense at the time, and dared to mix it up and risk all. Maybe time to get over the emo and insults and blaming and have fun. Guess what? Next round is wide open, and not pre-determined. That is the final gift of R68 to R69, an open game again.
On this I would like to share my emotions and say that next round, any alliance you are part of will war Ultores from as soon we marked down its coords.

PS: I added some of your last post cause you like to repeat your lies on here.
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Unread 18 Sep 2016, 23:25   #263
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
You made founders quit
One can shift between alliances, but will never leave the sect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
On this I would like to share my emotions and say that next round, any alliance you are part of will war Ultores from as soon we marked down its coords.
Not "any" alliance.
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Unread 18 Sep 2016, 23:35   #264
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gen_Chaos View Post
Well, I think this thread has become mostly a tit-for-tat between two allies. But there are 600 or whatever number of players playing, and frankly, it's about the game.

We never challenged Ult before tick 800, and that was not accidental, sorry, it was in keeping with our friendship despite what we perceived as earlier betrayal by Ult. Don't want to get into that. Chalk it up to bad communications, I think. I take half the blame for that.

By the time we went at Ult they obviously had a commanding lead. But it was in the spirit of what I have been asking for all round, competition. I asked for a Challenge War three times, I proposed a Top Four tournament to several pols in the game, I have been talking incessantly about the need to keep the game open and fresh and include all the players.

In the end, this is about quite a few alliances that are tired of Naptarion and bottom feeding, including us (yes we have been guilty of that). People can try to change the dialogue and say "stagnation? what's that?", but sorry, all we heard for a long time is how we were ruining the game with too strong an alliance between two top contenders.

Bows did not create the block that came at Ult finally, we just finally agreed it was time to open up the game and go for the top ally, the way the game really has actually been played on most rounds dating back to r3 at least, when I started. We joined in. That's important because the players of Pa need to give credit to the alliances and leaders who dared to break it up, mix it up, and create a game that was fun to play again. It didn't change Ult's commanding lead, but it did open up the game and change the dynamics... look at all the subsequent ally fights.

Probably Bows will be the scapegoat but that is not accurate... but ok if ppl have to find one. Look at what this group of alliances did - we have all the top 6 jousting for ranks or settling scores, we have challenge wars going on, everybody is playing, and nobody is bottom feeding.

Excuse me??? Is this not a great outcome for this round? And it is open despite only having 600 players, which is no small feat. Are not more players saying this round is more fun and interesting than recent rounds? Aren't small players no longer being farmed, as allies fight allies closest to their own size?

So we can make this about one decision that was made, but seriously, it is a movement in the game and I credit all the people who acted independently this round and mixed it up. Even the ones that I would like to smack in pm, lol, like Buly, who has dared to take some very unpopular stances including attacking us. (btw I like u Buly, just dissing you)

I think this is a great round for Pa. Kudos to CT, p3ngs, Norse, VGN, and all the allies who broke out and did whatever they thought made sense at the time, and dared to mix it up and risk all. Maybe time to get over the emo and insults and blaming and have fun. Guess what? Next round is wide open, and not pre-determined. That is the final gift of R68 to R69, an open game again.
Cute, what happend to your previous lie about a some weird deal between Norsemen and Ultores and that you needed this war to preserve second place?

It's so hilarious that the only reason you are in any risk at all at the moment of losing second place is because you started a block-war against Ultores where you landed little and crashed a lot. (it's still a long-shot, but the possibility of you losing second place exist because of this...)

Good game.

If you really had wanted to just mix things up, you were welcome to have this 1 vs 1 fight with Ultores - but Rainbows shut down that idea.

The actual case is that you were not interested in doing for us - what we did for you last round. We know that now, and will adjust future expectations accordingly
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 00:47   #265
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Talking Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
Cute, what happend to your previous lie about a some weird deal between Norsemen and Ultores and that you needed this war to preserve second place?

It's so hilarious that the only reason you are in any risk at all at the moment of losing second place is because you started a block-war against Ultores where you landed little and crashed a lot. (it's still a long-shot, but the possibility of you losing second place exist because of this...)

Good game.

If you really had wanted to just mix things up, you were welcome to have this 1 vs 1 fight with Ultores - but Rainbows shut down that idea.

The actual case is that you were not interested in doing for us - what we did for you last round. We know that now, and will adjust future expectations accordingly
Not true. You ignore we faced down opposition for 850 ticks because we didn't go at you. You farmed ND and we wouldn't help them because of our friendship with you, and they turned on us and attacked us, and the very day they attacked us, you napped them.

Contrary to any other notion, friendship needs to go two ways.

What this really comes down to, from what keeps coming up about betrayal, is lack of notice for the change. Well, here is that story:

4 days before we attacked Ult, I messaged Chimpie and asked him to lay off pengs because we needed them. Once again, WE WERE UNDER ATTACK FOR BEING ULT'S FRIENDS. So I said, please back off, we need them.

That message never got answered, and the inc on Pengs increased the next day.

There's not a pol officer in this game that would not assume:

1. We were no longer on talking terms, and
2. Increased hostilities on our friends were deliberate.

Now, chimpie tells me he didn't see the message, and that TG is not his preferred method of communication - despite the fact that we have used TG since June 4th and I have 60 screens of messages to scroll through.

Okay, I can accept that. I should have considered that, and maybe his phone was broken, etc. As green_cat has pointed out to me, I made assumptions without checking them. I should have gone into IRC and tried to reach him, or mailed in game to give notice.

NOTE: After realizing that mistake, 48 hours before we declared war in game I messaged him in WA that the officers had voted for war, and got a confirmation, and waited to make sure he answered me, and then I waited 48 hours before pressing the button. Not going to make that mistake again.

This betrayal flap is based on that event. I made the assumption we were already on hostile terms and did not give notice. That was my bad and I accept the fact that I made all of Bows look bad... apologies to green_cat, etc.

And less than 4 days ago, if I see the time right, I had a meeting with chimpie, agar3s, green_cat and myself in WA, and I posted there my idea of a 1:1 war at tick 1000 as a way to break things up and not have it be actually a hate match, just a challenge. You know, fun. Something a lot of people here forgot we play for a long time ago.

You can quote and twist my sentences and leave off the other things I said and did and make me look like anything you want, we can all play that game.

But really this came down to failed communications and bad assumptions by me which I accept was bad form. We can trump this up as an ally war and hate fest and carry it on for rounds, all over a missed TG mail ??? Whatever. I guess WWI was started with one bullet, why not. This round we had bad communications with Ult, things happened that looked like they were working against us (Norse was circumstantial, and after talking with them I withdrew that belief that they were working with you for rank, so don't keep bringing that up - I already acknowledged that in a previous post and to them). I am sure we can drag up a dozen more reasons for the hate fest, there is never any shortage of hate in here. I butter my toast on the wrong side, too.
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 01:36   #266
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
The actual case is that you were not interested in doing for us - what we did for you last round. We know that now, and will adjust future expectations accordingly
Agreements shouldn't be carried that way between rounds.

Also, I will quote Xoca/theman here: "If they were dumb enough to endure any misdeed bows did last round quietly, we don't have to do the same."
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 01:43   #267
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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I hear GenChaos made a deal to get Norse #2. Find it a bit sad myself that an HC sells his alliance out to try and get into Norse.
I'm sorry I just had to comment on this though I know I ought to just let it pass.

Dude, what ARE you smoking? I want some. Heard from who?

I enjoy reading your posts. I love seeing snippets of what I said put together with your narrative like some kind of ransom note, along with bizarre pieces of intel that must have come from spilling out scrabble letters and putting them together. Point by point rebuttals of things taken out of context and sprinkled with a bit of hallucination, it's great.

BTW if you make the snippets shorter, you could probably show me confessing to killing JFK. I was alive at the time and it is quite possible I was guilty of that crime also. I heard from somebody I was.

As far as declaring jihads to follow in subsequent rounds... you do know this is a game, right? Just making sure. Ships on a spreadsheet. ND attacked us with no notice, I yelled at Buly, we made up, all's fine. That's what normal people do.
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 05:06   #268
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gen_Chaos View Post
I'm sorry I just had to comment on this though I know I ought to just let it pass.

Dude, what ARE you smoking? I want some. Heard from who?

I enjoy reading your posts. I love seeing snippets of what I said put together with your narrative like some kind of ransom note, along with bizarre pieces of intel that must have come from spilling out scrabble letters and putting them together. Point by point rebuttals of things taken out of context and sprinkled with a bit of hallucination, it's great.

BTW if you make the snippets shorter, you could probably show me confessing to killing JFK. I was alive at the time and it is quite possible I was guilty of that crime also. I heard from somebody I was.

As far as declaring jihads to follow in subsequent rounds... you do know this is a game, right? Just making sure. Ships on a spreadsheet. ND attacked us with no notice, I yelled at Buly, we made up, all's fine. That's what normal people do.
You seem to be super good at not getting sarcasm. Calling something narrow minded when you can't understand sarcasm, maybe you are missing the intelligence part to understand it no?

Half of your own HC team disagreed with how you did things behind their backs and without notice to boot. This is something you should have realised by now. Bows dying is DIRECTLY related to you and how you do things. You even knew before you did things it would happen, yet you did not care about the consequences.

A text based game is exactly what it is yes. So why not do whatever we want. I already stated that an HC should do what is best for its members. Apparently that is destroying you next round, we will like this round again have great pleasure in the game itself. Don't you think that beating you in a 4v1 fight makes Ultores smile, you who thought us our equal.
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 05:21   #269
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by Gen_Chaos View Post
And less than 4 days ago, if I see the time right, I had a meeting with chimpie, agar3s, green_cat and myself in WA, and I posted there my idea of a 1:1 war at tick 1000 as a way to break things up and not have it be actually a hate match, just a challenge. You know, fun. Something a lot of people here forgot we play for a long time ago.
How is defeating you in a 4 on 1 less fun than in a 1 on 1. I spoke to several of your co HC in rainbows and they all agree on 1 thing, they think that victory from last round went straight to your head.

Let me be clear, this is not a hate match. This is Ultores showing who is the better alliance. You didn't want to do it in a 1 on 1 so you went for a 4 on 1 instead, we did not want the 1 on 1 at that stage. We needed to beat you down in a 4 on 1.

What I don't understand yet is why you think "wars" are not fun. Trust me when I say that Ultores will have great fun in destroying you and the alliance you are in next round. As for our members comments, they are laughing at you. They think you are a joke so they call you out on it. One would advice his kids not to bully the lesser of mind but when they want to be the center of attention, I will not stop them. Needless to say that my members look down on you.
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 05:40   #270
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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On this I would like to share my emotions and say that next round, any alliance you are part of will war Ultores from as soon we marked down its coords.
This attitude is exactly why the game has gone from a slow to a rapid demise because this community has turned very toxic and people take things way too personally.

Not that anyone gives a shit, but this is the fundamental reason why I will never return because this community prefers to punish players rather than try and help keep this old game functioning.
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 09:02   #271
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

Ah, good old "fun" wars. We want to fight you, but when we start losing, we don't want that to affect our precious ranks.
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 09:51   #272
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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I like that you try to bring this up again and again, but atleast admit that it was your side that refused to fight us 1on1. Frankly you only dared to challenge Ultores when you had a block ready to do so. After being outvoted on your first attempt on blocking against ult. You got it in order the second time around.
I find it amuzing that you claim to know what the stance on fighting Ult was within the BowS officer/non-com channel.
We did never attempt to blocking on Ult, like your claiming, only watching out for our own interest and what we thought to be fair for the univers.

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You lead an alliance, you lead it into destruction. You made founders quit and others go inactive. One might say you are a terrible leader. A leader does what is best for his members and stays true to its alliance goals. You failed miserably in both.
Wich founders quit, and wich one did go inactive?
What is our, my alliances, goals?
BowS has always been a alliance that attempted to avoid naptarion, im sure if you look up our initial recruitment post you will find us saying exactly this.
We also used to be against cheating, and bug abusing. In diffrent to certain other alliance we would report our own members for cheating, and yes, we would report bugs instead of abusing them for ourself(look at the "PL bug").


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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
Claiming you did it for anything but personal glory is void. Last round you were in the exact same position and didnt do anything. The only difference was that this round it would not get you to win alliance.
How can you say we were in the exact same position last round and this round if we arnt looking to be winning this round?


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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
On this I would like to share my emotions and say that next round, any alliance you are part of will war Ultores from as soon we marked down its coords.
Yeah, im sure we can make this work. From seeing in the past when Ultores has been crying like little babies because "CT AND FRIENDS ARE RUINING OUR PA LIFE" from setting out to stop you from PT1, this is a very bold statement. Are you sure you have your alliance confidence vote on this? Maybe they might outvote you.

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
Half of your own HC team disagreed with how you did things behind their backs and without notice to boot. This is something you should have realised by now. Bows dying is DIRECTLY related to you and how you do things. You even knew before you did things it would happen, yet you did not care about the consequences.
Who is the BowS HC team? Please, it would be interesting to hear.

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
How is defeating you in a 4 on 1 less fun than in a 1 on 1. I spoke to several of your co HC in rainbows and they all agree on 1 thing, they think that victory from last round went straight to your head.
Certain BowS members has been playing together for, 10-15 years, dont you think we wouldve learnt to know each other by now? Ive known GenChaos longer than you have been playing the game if im not mistaken
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 12:01   #273
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
I find it amuzing that you claim to know what the stance on fighting Ult was within the BowS officer/non-com channel.
We did never attempt to blocking on Ult, like your claiming, only watching out for our own interest and what we thought to be fair for the univers.
Cause I speak to people that are in it and always have. Are you naive enough to think that it doesn't get leaked?



Quote:
Wich founders quit, and wich one did go inactive?
What is our, my alliances, goals?
BowS has always been a alliance that attempted to avoid naptarion, im sure if you look up our initial recruitment post you will find us saying exactly this.
We also used to be against cheating, and bug abusing. In diffrent to certain other alliance we would report our own members for cheating, and yes, we would report bugs instead of abusing them for ourself(look at the "PL bug").
cr0 quit, green_cat went inactive.
PS: you yourself said it is not seen as a bug, or bug abuse. So how could it be abused.



Quote:
How can you say we were in the exact same position last round and this round if we arnt looking to be winning this round?
You can make the same political moves with a different outcome.


Quote:
Yeah, im sure we can make this work. From seeing in the past when Ultores has been crying like little babies because "CT AND FRIENDS ARE RUINING OUR PA LIFE" from setting out to stop you from PT1, this is a very bold statement. Are you sure you have your alliance confidence vote on this? Maybe they might outvote you.
I know you have this voting system in place so you can undo deals to whatever alliance you made it with. Ultores does not. Also preround blocking is a little different than having 1 alliance declare war on another no?

Quote:
Who is the BowS HC team? Please, it would be interesting to hear.
Ingame: green_cat , Daoz , GenChaos , mxy.
Officerchan: Daoz , Cow , Joseph , XoCa , mxy , merlin , alphan , cro , green_cat , butcher , GenChaos

Quote:
Certain BowS members has been playing together for, 10-15 years, dont you think we wouldve learnt to know each other by now? Ive known GenChaos longer than you have been playing the game if im not mistaken
Irrelevent no? You didn't even reply that what was being said.
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 12:31   #274
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
cr0 quit, green_cat went inactive.
Despite being in Bows tag for a long time and valuing Bows pretty much, those are members of the Agares Balls Sect and couldn't withstand seeing Ult being hit.
Joseph is also a member, but he values his players and helped. We even promised him a full dental care in case he was accidentally hit.
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 13:09   #275
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Cause I speak to people that are in it and always have. Are you naive enough to think that it doesn't get leaked?
I dont remeber talking to you this round, its amusing that chatting with cr0/green_cat can give you the impression that there was a vote being taken place at any time except right before we choose to hit you.
I will even allow you to post logs of this "vote", seeing that you seem to know all about it.

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
cr0 quit, green_cat went inactive.
green_cat was inactive more or less whole round, wich we allready knew would happend when we went into this round. She even said so herself.
Cr0 is not a BowS founder, he wasnt even in the alliance to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
PS: you yourself said it is not seen as a bug, or bug abuse. So how could it be abused.
It is seen as a bug. And ofc if you abuse a bug without reporting it, or even use a bug after reporting it, its against the rules. This time cin said that it would be allowed to use the bug for the rest of the round since they didnt have the man power to fix it. But im sure you had allready cleared this with the MH/PA-team?

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
I know you have this voting system in place so you can undo deals to whatever alliance you made it with. Ultores does not. Also preround blocking is a little different than having 1 alliance declare war on another no?
You know jack sh*t. You claim to know everything, but most that has ever dealt with you by now most likely all know that you are talking wibble half of the time.
If there is a disagreement, and we dont know our members/officers stand on things we might ask them to share their input/opinion. We had one guy deciding on wich deals to make or break, and it was never up to anyone to put up a democratic pole to decide on matters big or small on every little decision we make.

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
Ingame: green_cat , Daoz , GenChaos , mxy.
Officerchan: Daoz , Cow , Joseph , XoCa , mxy , merlin , alphan , cro , green_cat , butcher , GenChaos
Then who is the "Pro-Ult 50%" then?
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 14:17   #276
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
I dont remeber talking to you this round, its amusing that chatting with cr0/green_cat can give you the impression that there was a vote being taken place at any time except right before we choose to hit you.
I will even allow you to post logs of this "vote", seeing that you seem to know all about it.
You assuming I speak to 2 people in there only. Just what is wrong with you. Later in this same topic you say that input is asked for, yet the first attempt of GenChaos got overturned and he stepped down for a while cause of it.

Quote:
green_cat was inactive more or less whole round, wich we allready knew would happend when we went into this round. She even said so herself.
Cr0 is not a BowS founder, he wasnt even in the alliance to begin with.
Cr0 done more for bows than you ever did. But you are correct if he wasnt in at the start, he is indeed not a founder.

Quote:
It is seen as a bug. And ofc if you abuse a bug without reporting it, or even use a bug after reporting it, its against the rules. This time cin said that it would be allowed to use the bug for the rest of the round since they didnt have the man power to fix it. But im sure you had allready cleared this with the MH/PA-team?
No you did and shared it on the forums and explained how it works.

Quote:
You know jack sh*t. You claim to know everything, but most that has ever dealt with you by now most likely all know that you are talking wibble half of the time.
If there is a disagreement, and we dont know our members/officers stand on things we might ask them to share their input/opinion. We had one guy deciding on wich deals to make or break, and it was never up to anyone to put up a democratic pole to decide on matters big or small on every little decision we make.
Well GenChaos said it was voted on and you say he decided it all on his own. Great communication.

Quote:
Then who is the "Pro-Ult 50%" then?
Jospeh , green_cat , cr0 , Cow and Daoz I would assume. 11 people cant vote into 50% though.

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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 14:57   #277
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
You assuming I speak to 2 people in there only. Just what is wrong with you. Later in this same topic you say that input is asked for, yet the first attempt of GenChaos got overturned and he stepped down for a while cause of it.
GenChaos steps down every chance he gets, atleast if he feels someone is working against him
The "first attempt" was never voted on, and it was realy never a discussion either. Other alliances made sure that such a decision could be postphoned.

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Cr0 done more for bows than you ever did. But you are correct if he wasnt in at the start, he is indeed not a founder.
So you agree that you are making up stuff to fit your own story, thanks.

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No you did and shared it on the forums and explained how it works.
Yeah, and the rest of the univers, including you, had NO IDEA WHAT SO EVER of this bug prior to this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
Well GenChaos said it was voted on and you say he decided it all on his own. Great communication.
Did any of us say that this wasnt "voted" on?
Thats not what you was claiming anyway, "I know you have this voting system in place so you can undo deals to whatever alliance you made it with."
Yet again you are twisting the story to fit what you were initialy saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
Jospeh , green_cat , cr0 , Cow and Daoz I would assume. 11 people cant vote into 50% though.
50% of Ultores HCs agreed to that Ult and BowS shouldnt be NAPed the whole round, and that breaking the NAP was the right thing to do. I would assume
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 15:11   #278
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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GenChaos steps down every chance he gets, atleast if he feels someone is working against him
The "first attempt" was never voted on, and it was realy never a discussion either. Other alliances made sure that such a decision could be postphoned.



So you agree that you are making up stuff to fit your own story, thanks.



Yeah, and the rest of the univers, including you, had NO IDEA WHAT SO EVER of this bug prior to this.



Did any of us say that this wasnt "voted" on?
Thats not what you was claiming anyway, "I know you have this voting system in place so you can undo deals to whatever alliance you made it with."
Yet again you are twisting the story to fit what you were initialy saying.



50% of Ultores HCs agreed to that Ult and BowS shouldnt be NAPed the whole round, and that breaking the NAP was the right thing to do. I would assume
I will just assume that your english isnt that good. One might not defy cr0 as a founder but he surely did enough to earn the respect you denied him.

I have no idea how you still can't see sarcasm when its naked dancing infront of you. It matters little to me if it was voted on or not, I just said that you will always backstab with people like GenChaos in charge and they will hide behind things such as a voting system. Pretending it isnt a backstab cause of it.

Yes 100% of Ultores HC voted that it should stop. But not till after the round was over so we wouldn't have to break our word. Something GenChaos was all to eager to do.

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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 15:27   #279
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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I will just assume that your english isnt that good. One might not defy cr0 as a founder but he surely did enough to earn the respect you denied him.

I have no idea how you still can't see sarcasm when its naked dancing infront of you. It matters little to me if it was voted on or not, I just said that you will always backstab with people like GenChaos in charge and they will hide behind things such as a voting system. Pretending it isnt a backstab cause of it.

Yes 100% of Ultores HC voted that it should stop. But not till after the round was over so we wouldn't have to break our word. Something GenChaos was all to eager to do.
cr0 as everyone else was free to speak their mind on Ultores and NAPtarion, it dosnt give them the right to decide for everyone else. There is a great few that has done a lot for BowS the last few years, none of them have an automatic veto over any decision.

BowS and Ult never had a EOR deal. Maybe joseph,cr0, or maybe BowBot said that we would not attack Ult for the rest of the round, but that dosnt make it true.
We had a deal, according to Ult HC, that we would be NAPed untill further notice. There was no cooldown, or no set time period. The only thing you could be aggrivated over is that we didnt notice you soon enough that we were dropping the deal.
Dropping a deal with no time limit set is not the same as "backstabbing".
Dropping a deal instantly with no "cool down period" when no cooldown period was agreed is not the same as "backstabbing".

But yeah, sure, "hiding behind" a democratic "vote" is what GenChaos perhaps would do instead of just deciding the path for BowS himself.
Me on the other hand wouldnt give a fck what the others thought if i could choose
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 15:36   #280
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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We also used to be against cheating, and bug abusing.
Such a thing is hard to believe when certain officers/HCs are actively and openly donating ships to former RainbowS members in havoc and seeing no problem with it since it's havoc after all.
If the command team finds it acceptable in havoc then I have no reason to assume they would find it unacceptable during the round
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 15:38   #281
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Such a thing is hard to believe when certain officers/HCs are actively and openly donating ships to former RainbowS members in havoc and seeing no problem with it since it's havoc after all.
If the command team finds it acceptable in havoc then I have no reason to assume they would find it unacceptable during the round
Can you really find the command team during havoc?
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 15:55   #282
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

So people who are RainbowS (and thus answer to the RainbowS command team) at the end of round 67, and are still RainbowS at the start of round 68, are not RainbowS during the havoc between those (or any other) 2 rounds?

That's awfully convenient, isn't it?
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 16:00   #283
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

If you find ship donation, feel free to report it.
If i find ship donations in BowS, or any other alliance i know there is no point reporting it after the PA crew changed the rules last round.
So far this round i havnt seen any in BowS, and i doubt ill play havoc this round either.
Norse said they were ship farming this round, but that they wernt doing the "against the rules" ship farming method, wich means they would not agree on ticks/agents/stealth/alert using the ingame mail system, just simply having their members signing up farm planets and building only CO pods with them, wich again is not against the rules.
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 16:03   #284
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
So people who are RainbowS (and thus answer to the RainbowS command team) at the end of round 67, and are still RainbowS at the start of round 68, are not RainbowS during the havoc between those (or any other) 2 rounds?

That's awfully convenient, isn't it?
Are you saying that someone in the BowS command team is ship farming, and you simply choose not to report it?
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 16:26   #285
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
BowS and Ult never had a EOR deal. Maybe joseph,cr0, or maybe BowBot said that we would not attack Ult for the rest of the round, but that dosnt make it true.
We had a deal, according to Ult HC, that we would be NAPed untill further notice. There was no cooldown, or no set time period. The only thing you could be aggrivated over is that we didnt notice you soon enough that we were dropping the deal.
Dropping a deal with no time limit set is not the same as "backstabbing".
Dropping a deal instantly with no "cool down period" when no cooldown period was agreed is not the same as "backstabbing".
Bbutcher, here is what you're missing: GenChaos said that the deal stays in place till we both discussed otherwise. Then just launched without a word on the matter. That's him breaking his word. That is backstabbing, regardless of cooldown and whatever other irrelevant shit you're making up. He obligated himself to talk to us about it first, he never did. Not untill after the fleets launched. Will i trust him to keep his word afterwards? no..

Simple rule of thumb; don't make promises you won't keep.
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 16:39   #286
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by DrunkenViking View Post
Bbutcher, here is what you're missing: GenChaos said that the deals stays in place till we both discussed otherwise. Then just launched without a word on the matter. That's him breaking his word. That is backstabbing, regardless of cooldown and whatever other irrelevant shit you're making up. He obligated himself to talk to us about it first, he never did. Not untill after the fleets launched. Will i trust him to keep his word afterwards? no..

Simple rule of thumb; don't make promises you won't keep.
As i said, did not notice you early enough.
I dont think i understand it as that the NAP wont be broken "unless we decide on it after a discussion", but "we will tell you if we do it". Wich either way, we apperntly did not.
And thats the only thing you should be angry over.
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 16:52   #287
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
As i said, did not notice you early enough.
I dont think i understand it as that the NAP wont be broken "unless we decide on it after a discussion", but "we will tell you if we do it". Wich either way, we apperntly did not.
And thats the only thing you should be angry over.
You didn't tell us at all. And that is the only thing that makes me angry. I work pols and if i can't trust you to keep your word with me, i see no point in dealing with you.

There are other stuff that annoys me tho, like the "oh, we're bows and did this to stop stagnation"-statements, simply cause that's complete bs. The idea that bows in any way can dictate who ult hits and don't hit(p3ng). The fact that bows hc was represented in anti ult block chan for days before letting us know midround. GenChaos thinking he can dictate which ally comes 1/2/3 and "hand" those ranks to his pals, and so on. Thats the stuff i've come to expect from bows during the past 2 rounds tho, so that doesnt make me angry, does annoy me tho.

As for Ult napping bows' enemies, we ONLY did that after bows sat in that block chan and told me they'd start to hit ult WITH said block. Thats when i tried napping the block.
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 16:59   #288
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

See, i can post irrelevant stuff too, but in the end there is no way i'm trusting GenChaos to keep his word with me.
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 17:08   #289
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by DrunkenViking View Post
As for Ult napping bows' enemies, we ONLY did that after bows sat in that block chan and told me they'd start to hit ult WITH said block. Thats when i tried napping the block.
If everything you did was because you expected Bows to turn against you, at that point you clearly no longer considered Bows an ally and act in a way to isolate it while protecting yourself. Then, why were you so astonished when that "friend" attacked you in the end?
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 17:21   #290
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by fortran View Post
If everything you did was because you expected Bows to turn against you, at that point you clearly no longer considered Bows an ally and act in a way to isolate it while protecting yourself. Then, why were you so astonished when that "friend" attacked you in the end?
Nope, i made nap proposals only to keep ult safe since an anti ult block consisting of nd/ct/p3ng and potentially bows were confirmed. Instead of offering to fight that block like a good friend would, GenChaos offered that bows hit Ult with the block to show them that we weren't blocked instead. GenChaos changed his mind the next day tho, but didn't inform me till after p3ng and CT had accepted said naps that was offered the previous day. That left us with pretty much only ND to hit, something we had no real interest in. We hit them till they were on around 400 roid average, then napped them as the p3ng deal was expiring anyways and p3ng was still a longshot contender. The day after GenChaos left me a message on telegram along the lines of "pls don't hit p3ng, they might turn on us", a message i didnt see(but in the end, we had no option but to hit them at this point other than farm HR or something like that anyway, so wouldn't have mattered).
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 17:26   #291
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

I'll write a proper account for the round in a couple days, with accurate timelines and the whys and why nots on my end.

Regarding me not trusting GenChaos, is it a problem really? Who cares.
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 17:32   #292
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Are you saying that someone in the BowS command team is ship farming, and you simply choose not to report it?
I've said that someone in command team was freely giving her ships away in havoc to members that were in RainbowS during the round, were in RainbowS private channels and were asking for people to donate ships to them.

Reporting it in game in havoc: that is wasted effort. Multihunters does apperently not care at all about havoc..
I on the do care and will remember this and as a result I've got very little respect for her and since they hold a high position in RainbowS also for the RainbowS alliance.

So don't tell me the BS about being against cheating when those high in command participate in it.
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 17:47   #293
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

I dont think i was in the channel during havoc, and if i were i didnt notice this event you are claiming happend. So i cant confirm/deny this claim.
What i said is that i havnt seen any this round, ship/roid farming or any cheating.
You reported it, and the MHs judged it as not being cheating.

The MHs changed the rules after the Mz/Benneh incident, you are allowed to donate ships/roids to another planet as long as you dont agree on it in ingame mails. Im pretty sure you were watching the discussion regarding this last round, and if you wernt you can`t claim anyone is cheating if you dont know the changes to the rules.

Did you notice the Norse CO covop strat this round? If it was against the rules to be farming ships, wouldnt they have been closed?

If you think it should be punished, i do share that view, but its nothing we can do about it.
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 17:55   #294
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Are you saying that someone in the BowS command team is ship farming, and you simply choose not to report it?
I said the thing I said, not the thing I didn't say.

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
The MHs changed the rules after the Mz/Benneh incident
Still lying, I see.
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 17:56   #295
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
I dont think i was in the channel during havoc, and if i were i didnt notice this event you are claiming happend. So i cant confirm/deny this claim.
Now that is convenient..

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
What i said is that i havnt seen any this round, ship/roid farming or any cheating.
I never said I saw cheating this round. I also did not bother to check for ship donations/cheating.. I however did say that I have no reason to assume that RainbowS command team would find it unacceptable IF it happened since they do it themselfs in havoc.


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You reported it, and the MHs judged it as not being cheating.
No, the MHs did not judge it. The MHs ignore havoc.

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
The MHs changed the rules after the Mz/Benneh incident, you are allowed to donate ships/roids to another planet as long as you dont agree on it in ingame mails. Im pretty sure you were watching the discussion regarding this last round, and if you wernt you can`t claim anyone is cheating if you dont know the changes to the rules.
Guess what: I did not claim someone was cheating this round. I however did claim that I have no reason to assume the RainbowS command team finds cheating unacceptable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Did you notice the Norse CO covop strat this round? If it was against the rules to be farming ships, wouldnt they have been closed?
Nope. The only time I really notice ship donations is when they attack me or my alliance. We've been NAPped for pretty much the entire round so I never had a reason to look at the fleets from Norse.
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 18:39   #296
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Guess what: I did not claim someone was cheating this round. I however did claim that I have no reason to assume the RainbowS command team finds cheating unacceptable.
Considering I made part of Bows command this round and I CBA about what happens in havoc. Also, considering Genchaos was already forcing himself to fulfill his HC's activities in detriment of other demands he has and considering Green cat went AWOL, I could assume both won't care about what happens during havoc either.

Is it fair? Will you be fine now?

edit: If not, could you consider applying to Bows command at least during havoc? I personally think it will be a great addition and will help with some gaps.
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 19:38   #297
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

1- at the time bows did war ult there was no chance of winning... so make one more enemie for future rounds was a mistake imho..
2- genchaos made sure we understand his goal for this and next rounds, break the friendship between bows and ult, a relation that started a way before i joined the tag. The reason: other HCs complaining that this "block" arr too strong for the game...
3- this "block" never ever cooperated against any other alliance, the only thing made was avoidance... thats completly ok imho... different from peng/nd/ct, who never ever hit another tag alone... always finding support for it, creating blocks etc...
4- our tag, bows, won last round bcoz universe felt ok about it, not bcoz we r pro players or something like that... obviously the same universe would never accept another victory... so, remember bows ranks previous rounds... end #2 is quite amazing imho..
hope bows being the center of all this bs discussion ends soon... we r just a noob tag having fun.. (hi bennet
cya around
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 21:10   #298
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

I'm going to take another wild guess and say that there was some sort of block on Bows, and it broke them. Better to betray one alliance and to be on friendly terms with a block of multiple alliances.
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 22:58   #299
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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This attitude is exactly why the game has gone from a slow to a rapid demise because this community has turned very toxic and people take things way too personally.

Not that anyone gives a shit, but this is the fundamental reason why I will never return because this community prefers to punish players rather than try and help keep this old game functioning.
I give a shit. Miss you and all the old players, even the ones that I never got along with. Have been sorry to see them leave due to the toxicity of the game over the years. I had one tell me a couple rounds ago, that "Pa is a soul-destroying, depressing, wrenching experience in which half minds dominate the gameplay and manage to turn everything into crap." Oddly, I still see that guy's nick now and then, he's probably playing incognito to avoid the small minds that will try to track him down for five years to avenge the loss of some spreadsheet play ships.

I couldn't agree more, too many ppl make this their life and reason for existence I guess. Glad there are still some people playing who realize it is a game and look forward to new rounds to go at it again. I suppose eventually they will also leave, which is sad.

I really think that way more than needed to be said about this has been said, and I am looking forward to leaving the trolling behind and not coming back to AD for the rest of the round.

Yes, I am teh Satan. Yes, I betrayed everybody, my own ally, my mother and my dog. Yes, I ruined somebody's round... maybe everybody's round. Yes, this is all really important and dwarfs any of the events of rl. There you go. Quote that, I made it easy for you to grab it all at once, so you won't get carpal tunnel cutting and pasting all the little bits. I AM GUILTY OF IT ALL.

But no, I NEVER told anybody we were a better ally than Ultores. Check with chimpie and agar3s on that. I have a log (a BIG log, like Teh Donald's!). Ultores, due to what I might call obsessive devotion, is the best alliance to play this game in years. I say that to anybody who asks. I never set out to challenge Ult to beat them with Bows or prove in any way we were a better alliance. I did once chastise Joseph for saying we were a crappy alliance that could not stand up to Ult for two days, but even then I said only that we were stronger than he gave us credit for.

Somehow everybody misses the fact that all we did was join a block that barely had enough firepower to slow Ult down for a few days.

Whoever got the idea this is about anything but refusing to help nap the top ally to a win, particularly after it appeared they were setting us up for a fall, is simply making stuff up.

Lots of people say things when they have no idea what actually happened. None. The only people who know what happened, are not the people posting here. What really happened was me petitioning Ult for a way to end the Naptarion of two strong alliances, and to do it in a way that wouldn't result in hate. That didn't work, so we joined the block that challenged them... obviously way too late to matter anyway.

So all the people who had no clue what really happened can post here all they like. Joseph actually just said it straight. We are an upstart tag dedicated to having fun, recruiting new players to the game, and trying to keep it open and balanced. We are not Ult. I said in my pms to chimpie that the Challenge War was no doubt a sure loss for Bows, and my exact words were "Now we both know that Ult is a stronger alliance and most likely would win a Private War, but so what?". A 1:1 would illustrate that we were willing to put ourselves on the line and get hammered to break up the game and make it more fun.

It is all about that. The trolls will try to make it into something else, but it is no more than that. Having fun, no bottom feeding, getting the top allies to mix it up, and trying to not to have it turn into a hate fest. The last part didn't work. There is always a massive supply of hate in Pa, which is very sad.

So I bid adieu to AD for this round. People can judge over time if this is as I say or as the trolls say. Don't really care. I have rl that needs my attention and I look forward to next round come what may. I have stared down small-minded trolls since 1998 and I don't give a rat's ass what they think.
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Unread 19 Sep 2016, 23:53   #300
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

I actually from sifting through all the bullshit on here I think it basically boils down to a lack of common courtesy. You were nap/allied/hogtied/ in cahoots with Ultores, who did nothing to betray you, and then just hung them out to dry at the drop of a hat 'to make the round fun'. It's not an action very becoming of a trustworthy alliance and trying to justify it with technicalities butcher just makes you look worse.

I was gonna make some comment about how could just a speshul hc team as Bows coordinate a round win last time round, but then it became obvious, it wasn't really down to them, it's cos their ally didn't decide to dick them over at the drop of a hat, 'to make things fun'.
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