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Unread 25 Aug 2010, 09:58   #51
Kjeldoran
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Re: Congratulations NFI

Hanzi's goal was and is to make NFI look stronger than they really are --> That's not what I perceived. His goal was to draw the attention on NFI, because they're being handed the round and that others need to react. I didn't indicate anything about how easy or difficult that would be. What I did was saying 'and how 'easy' it is to close the gap' because that's what people here indicated THEMSELVES by using ND as an example.

I also don't know why I'm arguing with me. The only thing I wanted to say is that this thread is pure propaganda with the intention to put the focus on NFI.
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Unread 25 Aug 2010, 13:55   #52
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Re: Congratulations NFI

NFI could well have a block with ND sooner or later given the extent of the nap they have. The fact that it includes a no-defending in gal policy and members threatened with kicking and roiding if they don't comply suggests so, in any case.

The fact that I view this thread as cheap propaganda is irrelevant, there's a reasonable amount of truth regarding NFI's roidcount, which arguably needs curtailing to open up a bit of competition.
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Unread 25 Aug 2010, 14:14   #53
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Re: Congratulations NFI

erm isnt the block already formed by ND and NFI? i mean, clearly attacking together and attacking for each other kinda points to that.. just a matter of time when the other side forms as well and starts punishing them
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Unread 25 Aug 2010, 18:06   #54
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Re: Congratulations NFI

Yeh I know its offtopic but lets not ignore the plain fact that apprime and osiris are in bed together (again) since tick 1 of this round. Its only logical that something was created against that.

But offcourse the app/osiris stuff is denied as usual..
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Unread 25 Aug 2010, 18:51   #55
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Re: Congratulations NFI

Quote:
Originally Posted by neroon View Post
erm isnt the block already formed by ND and NFI? i mean, clearly attacking together and attacking for each other kinda points to that.. just a matter of time when the other side forms as well and starts punishing them
Let’s set some things straight, since the dishonesty is starting to pile up again.

The ND/NFI NAP was put into effect in response to Osiris siding with Apprime (Apprime members meeting held a few hours before NFI and ND formalized their NAP: http://pastebin.com/ABUXyY1u ), and in order diminish the offensive impact of two strong alliances( Osiris / Apprime ) using the same attack-orientated meta-class; and so as to reduce our random incoming from each other. The NAP is written in the form of a temporary agreement, and only features attack co-ordination against Apprime and whomever would block with them. We have no intent to take down any neutral alliances, much less anyone who has been friendly to us.

App has been at war with NFI since last Friday, when we started it as a retaliation for organising a gangbang on us at tick 250 or so. They are sided with Osiris, two pure CR/BS focused alliances. If people want to team up with the only "block" which is purely CR/BS, the strongest offencive setup in the game, and then expect them not to attack them later on, that's their choice. Two pure BS alliances together also means they can focus the majority of their BS fleet on anti-fr/de, because no-one can hit them with enough BS incs to force them to build a more even distribution of ships.

We all know what folly it is to trust Apprime, due to their penchant for backstabbing their allies (Vision rnd36, NewDawn and Ascendancy rnd37, to name the three latest and most prominent) and for their “jihadist pranks” as well as joining their former “enemies" against their supposed friends. Any help lent to Apprime, should they win, will not keep them for turning on you once they’ve reached the top. They will systematically take our your top planets, as they’ve done before.
NFI doesn't do this to our friends and allies. Our allies can out-roid us if they want, but we will not ever betray or organise attacks against our friends galaxies, and then turn around and have someone else hit our friends in those same galaxies (Apprime against DLR rnd36). We hold to the sentiment of an agreement, and will not seek to undermine it through the use of loopholes or other unsavoury actions.

Further, if all 3 remaining top5 alliances, including Asc, are hitting us, you'd think it would be enough to make it a fair fight? At least the non-top5 alliance can play their own game while we're busy here with Asc jumping between our alliances.

This is NFI policy for the round. Stay neutral, join us or join them, either way, you now know where we stand.

As a last bit of information, if some non-Apprime alliance wants to ask about our defences...just ask. Don't be like some alliances who capped 1,2k roids from us today by crashing 2,2million value in attack fleets for them. We have no out-right wish to see any of you dead.

Sincerely,
NFI Command Team.
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Unread 25 Aug 2010, 19:06   #56
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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Originally Posted by Kjeldoran View Post
I also don't know why I'm arguing with me. The only thing I wanted to say is that this thread is pure propaganda with the intention to put the focus on NFI.
I think sun_tzu is trying to put the focus on the backstabbing jihadist prankers that is Apprime
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Unread 25 Aug 2010, 19:25   #57
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Re: Congratulations NFI

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu View Post
NFI doesn't do this to our friends and allies. Our allies can out-roid us if they want, but we will not ever betray or organise attacks against our friends galaxies, and then turn around and have someone else hit our friends in those same galaxies (Apprime against DLR rnd36).
Strange, but I believe sun....
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Unread 25 Aug 2010, 19:38   #58
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Re: Congratulations NFI

gratz nfi.

apparantly everyone are really shit this round!
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Unread 25 Aug 2010, 21:11   #59
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Re: Congratulations NFI

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu View Post
NFI doesn't do this to our friends and allies. Our allies can out-roid us if they want, but we will not ever betray or organise attacks against our friends galaxies, and then turn around and have someone else hit our friends in those same galaxies (Apprime against DLR rnd36).
OH MY LORD I HAVE TEARS IN MY EYES!

Seriously why do you talk like this when it's the first round nfi played AND when it's tick 456? You have alot of time left to backstab (you have nothing to backstab) others wich you don't have to do yet since you're on top.
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Unread 26 Aug 2010, 01:33   #60
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu View Post
Let’s set some things straight, since the dishonesty is starting to pile up again.
yes lets. Your whole post is basically built on stuff you make up as you go, to make yourself look good and apprime bad. So lets look at the fundament in your post, that Apprime cant be trusted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu View Post
We all know what folly it is to trust Apprime, due to their penchant for backstabbing their allies (Vision rnd36, NewDawn and Ascendancy rnd37, to name the three latest and most prominent)
Vision broke the nap agreements with apprime round 36.
Newdawn broke the nap agreements with apprime round 37.
Apprime broke with Ascendancy round 37 for not helping Apprime out when being targeted, however there were no agreements of cooldown so we attacked them same night.

3/3 Sun_Tzu, thats awesome.
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Unread 26 Aug 2010, 01:54   #61
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Re: Congratulations NFI

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
Vision broke the nap agreements with apprime round 36.
Newdawn broke the nap agreements with apprime round 37.
Apprime broke with Ascendancy round 37 for not helping Apprime out when being targeted, however there were no agreements of cooldown so we attacked them same night.
-Apprime had hit top vision planets, going against what Vision felt was the spirit of their agreement with Apprime. Therefor, Vision ended the NAP and joined the attack on Apprime after the cooldown had ended.
-Apprime had tried to circumvent the spirit of the agreement between ND/Asc/App on multiple occasions(seeking special arrangements for some of their fenced gals which had not been agreed upon and backing out of attacks or indeed recalling one tick in on joint galraids), which culminated in the outright attempts to gather a block to hit ND. Upon learning of this ND chose to end the NAP with Apprime and join the opposing side.
-Apprime claims there was no cooldown on the NAP agreement between them and Asc, however supposedly that's not how Asc interpreted the agreement.
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Unread 26 Aug 2010, 02:10   #62
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Re: Congratulations NFI

blablabla, you should write short novels instead, they are usually based on fantasy much like your long science fiction manuscripts. In all 3 of your mentioned examples, the exact opposite actually happened, just get that right.
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Unread 26 Aug 2010, 02:18   #63
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Re: Congratulations NFI

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu View Post
As a last bit of information, if some non-Apprime alliance wants to ask about our defences...just ask. Don't be like some alliances who capped 1,2k roids from us today by crashing 2,2million value in attack fleets for them. We have no out-right wish to see any of you dead.
Calculated landings!
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Unread 26 Aug 2010, 09:43   #64
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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Originally Posted by neroon View Post
erm isnt the block already formed by ND and NFI? i mean, clearly attacking together and attacking for each other kinda points to that.. just a matter of time when the other side forms as well and starts punishing them
I dont quite think you're gaining correct info from #mercs bro
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Unread 26 Aug 2010, 09:49   #65
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Re: Congratulations NFI

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cronix View Post
I think sun_tzu is trying to put the focus on the backstabbing jihadist prankers that is Apprime
Ya, but Sun_Tzu is allowed to. He's so sweet ... how can anything he said not be seen as the truth?
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Unread 26 Aug 2010, 09:52   #66
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Re: Congratulations NFI

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
blablabla, you should write short novels instead, they are usually based on fantasy much like your long science fiction manuscripts. In all 3 of your mentioned examples, the exact opposite actually happened, just get that right.
Or you could counter what he said with actual proof?

I mean ... take the last example (r37). You claim there was no cooldown aggreement between App and Asc after ending the NAP, while Sun says Asc thinks differently ...

Now, call me stupid but the answer on such question is quite easy and can be proven if you still have the logs of the "meeting" in which you discussed the terms. So ... which one of you is wrong mmm?
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Unread 26 Aug 2010, 09:53   #67
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Re: Congratulations NFI

because hes a dirty fin. and lets be honest here, we cant trust them.
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Unread 26 Aug 2010, 09:54   #68
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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because hes a dirty fin. and lets be honest here, we cant trust them.
Correct. Nothing more trustworthy then Finnish people and penguins.
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Unread 26 Aug 2010, 10:04   #69
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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Calculated landings!
I LOVE them calculated landings


no but seriously, nfi ppl wtf u on about.. first moves were like, NFI threw some 50-70 fleets on osi one night, which kinda failed tbh and osi ppl got info from ND galmates that they cant def osi ingal or otherwise they get kicked.. does sound like a bumparty to me (ive been with alliance attacks every single time ive attacked i belive and i know we didnt tgt nfi planets before that happened)..
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Unread 26 Aug 2010, 10:07   #70
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Re: Congratulations NFI

and also stop posting crap like osi been in bed with app since the -576pt or sth. as thats bs and u know it.. osi been hittin app tgts this round in earlier stages so that kinda shows something dosent it?
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Unread 26 Aug 2010, 10:11   #71
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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Originally Posted by neroon View Post
and also stop posting crap like osi been in bed with app since the -576pt or sth. as thats bs and u know it.. osi been hittin app tgts this round in earlier stages so that kinda shows something dosent it?
It perhaps shows you're backstabbing your allies? No, just kidding Neroon ;-)
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Unread 26 Aug 2010, 10:12   #72
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Re: Congratulations NFI

Not just kicked, but have their galaxy stuck on a target list, which certainly gave me an axe to grind on this particular issue. I'd have either not defended in the first place, or if I decided to defend, tell my HC to take a walk if they cared that much about in galaxy defence.

Whatever keeps you with a 20% roidlead and 17% scorelead when your nearest rival is allied (or at least not likely to hit NFI) I'd guess. Clearly in these kind of situations, credibility is a real problem for Apprime against those sort of numbers. So what we have here is a bit of blocking and some good old fashioned divide and conquer on the forums.

Apprime's credibility is certainly questionable, but to lash out at alliances corralling together to undertake countermeasures when faced with the kind of stats we're talking about it is a bit rich.
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Unread 26 Aug 2010, 10:15   #73
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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So what we have here is a bit of blocking and some good old fashioned divide and conquer on the forums.
Takes you back to Pre-PAX rounds aye :-)
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Unread 26 Aug 2010, 13:40   #74
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Re: Congratulations NFI

Quote:
Originally Posted by neroon View Post
and also stop posting crap like osi been in bed with app since the -576pt or sth. as thats bs and u know it.. osi been hittin app tgts this round in earlier stages so that kinda shows something dosent it?
In fairness that is actually ridiculously off the wall. Tzu phrased his initial post rather carefully to avoid outright lying but to describe it as omitting some of the facts would be akin to describing the smiley as mildly irritating.
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Unread 26 Aug 2010, 20:40   #75
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Re: Congratulations NFI

To sum up, ND and NFI have been allied this round and worked together according to Neroons testimony, where they were not allowed to def against eachother ingal. No other alliances afaik had any similar deals and have been taking a beating one after one.

How long are you going to let NFI and ND bully you around? No alliance is capable of fighting 152 planets alone and come out strong. For 400+ ticks you have allowed them to not only recieve heavily reduced incs due to being allied, but also allowing them to coordinate attacks together to weaken their competition, one by one.

It gives me a bad taste to see this go unpunished. Earlier rounds we have seen blocks forming to take down a dominant alliance, but this round a block needs to be formed to take down 2 alliances. There is an alliance limit for a reason, and it certainly is not 152!
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Unread 26 Aug 2010, 21:01   #76
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Re: Congratulations NFI

guys whats with Neroon when its neroon instead!!!! be correct!
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Unread 26 Aug 2010, 21:30   #77
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
To sum up, ND and NFI have been allied this round and worked together according to Neroons testimony, where they were not allowed to def against eachother ingal. No other alliances afaik had any similar deals and have been taking a beating one after one.

How long are you going to let NFI and ND bully you around? No alliance is capable of fighting 152 planets alone and come out strong. For 400+ ticks you have allowed them to not only recieve heavily reduced incs due to being allied, but also allowing them to coordinate attacks together to weaken their competition, one by one.

It gives me a bad taste to see this go unpunished. Earlier rounds we have seen blocks forming to take down a dominant alliance, but this round a block needs to be formed to take down 2 alliances. There is an alliance limit for a reason, and it certainly is not 152!
We actually hit each other quite a bit with ND for the first 300 or so ticks, only after which we started to mend relations. In fact, NFI was very nearly ND's top hostile alliance for the first 250 or so ticks, although that was quite unintentional really.

You're either misinformed or an outright liar. Either way, I'm not surprised.
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Unread 26 Aug 2010, 21:38   #78
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu View Post
We actually hit each other quite a bit with ND for the first 300 or so ticks, only after which we started to mend relations. In fact, NFI was very nearly ND's top hostile alliance for the first 250 or so ticks, although that was quite unintentional really.

You're either misinformed or an outright liar. Either way, I'm not surprised.
If you dig more now, the shovel will be melting.
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Unread 27 Aug 2010, 01:37   #79
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Re: Congratulations NFI

Based on that IRC log it seems like after an app meeting where they make it clear about an awareness of the ND/NFI friendship; NFI decides it's a good time to "make it official" and set their relationship status.

Either a diplomatic feat of establishing a "counter" nap in record time, or just a well timed press release.
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Unread 29 Aug 2010, 16:51   #80
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Re: Congratulations NFI

So who are each of the top four alliances hitting at the moment?
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Unread 29 Aug 2010, 20:43   #81
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Re: Congratulations NFI

Well, Apprime are hitting...

Oh wait - you said the top four
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Unread 29 Aug 2010, 20:46   #82
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Re: Congratulations NFI

Top five then.
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Unread 29 Aug 2010, 20:58   #83
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Re: Congratulations NFI

Looks like ND/NFI beating Asc/App with CT not involved.
Im no expert tho!
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Unread 30 Aug 2010, 03:45   #84
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Re: Congratulations NFI

In my memory, every time someone posts a "Congrats" message mid-round, that alliance usually ends up winning. Way to go on trying to fight back, guys...
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Unread 30 Aug 2010, 04:59   #85
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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Originally Posted by NitinA View Post
In my memory, every time someone posts a "Congrats" message mid-round, that alliance usually ends up winning. Way to go on trying to fight back, guys...
To be fair, wasn't posted at mid round.

No, this thread was made at quarter-round.
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Unread 30 Aug 2010, 07:33   #86
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Re: Congratulations NFI

your memory must be terrible then nitina cos last round someone posted a "congrats ND" thread.
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Unread 30 Aug 2010, 08:32   #87
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Re: Congratulations NFI

I don't imagine the thread made the blindest bit of difference, but it does appear to be becoming true atm. Still plenty of time for the rest of the universe to organise themselves, but really no-one except NFI actually cares ergo NFI are likely to win out.
As proof that no-one really cares Asc is in third and we are really rubbish atm
NFI also has a coherent strategy, in going all for one Meta-class, hard to assess how thats affecting things but I would bet it helps them.
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Unread 30 Aug 2010, 09:00   #88
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Re: Congratulations NFI

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
As proof that no-one really cares Asc is in third and we are really rubbish atm
Holy shit, are we ever bad this round.
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Unread 30 Aug 2010, 09:42   #89
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Re: Congratulations NFI

I agree with Londo, this thread made no difference, in fact it was framed by a very cheap shot from HanzI and a reasonably cheap shot from Sun Tzu.

The simple fact is that Apprime's political credibility is pretty much annihilated and no one will trust them as a long term partner. Even if there had been effective opposition to NFI, NFI would have won in any case. Why? No one would willingly help Apprime and leave themselves exposed to an attack from them. This would have put NFI/ND back in the ascendancy and NFI would have won, because they're just better than ND. Once again we had a round concluded in the first 500 ticks.

In terms of winning rounds, Apprime are a dead force politically. Far too many about turns, trying to turn allies against each other and getting caught out. I mean, Ascendancy has won far more over time and arguably, I'd say we're perceived as more trustworthy than Apprime.

For Ascendancy, this is one of our slackest rounds for a long time. We're probably making our performances between 16 and 26 seem like hard working. But we have longevity in our community which for many of us can be considered a success at this point.
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Unread 30 Aug 2010, 15:22   #90
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
In terms of winning rounds, Apprime are a dead force politically. Far too many about turns, trying to turn allies against each other and getting caught out. I mean, Ascendancy has won far more over time and arguably, I'd say we're perceived as more trustworthy than Apprime.
PA fun fact #27: You guys have always been willing to turn on someone, just like apprime if you had a shot at winning
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Unread 30 Aug 2010, 15:58   #91
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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PA fun fact #27: You guys have always been willing to turn on someone, just like apprime if you had a shot at winning
I somehow think there are quite some allies around that switched sides more often than Wishmaster changes his sex partners, although I don´t follow things too closely. I can´t recall the last time Asc turned on someone to secure the ally win, in fact we gave shots at the win away in the past just because the majority of the mebmers felt an urge to uphold agreements.

Don´t try to make us look like Angels here, iirc there is quite some more consistency to Ascendancy politics overall.
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Unread 30 Aug 2010, 16:08   #92
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Re: Congratulations NFI

our most notable recent betrayal would be the leave tag and launch on Dmnts last day of r36. Yeah we wheel and deal with the best, but we usually uphold our agreements, which is why we make very few. Yeah we join coalitions but usually its others who pull out of blocks first. Someone find me another direct betrayal by Asc as I cant think of any, blocks collapse under their own weight then the sides change naturally.
Half the problem here is that neither of us have a good reputation, deserved or not.
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Unread 30 Aug 2010, 16:26   #93
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Re: Congratulations NFI

Ascendancy has always tended to value long-term goals more than short-term ones. That's why, back in the day, we had no qualms kicking people if they were bad at Planetarion (which isn't the same as being inactive, mind you). It costs score in the short run, but it makes your alliance stronger in the future, because there's fewer idiots to **** things up, while yet others might think twice before engaging in idiotic behaviour.

Along the same lines, we were fully commited to sticking to the agreement with xVx in round 31(?) which stipulated that we would grant them the win in exchange for support in taking down the BGs. This cost us in the short run, because we would be unable to win that round, but in the long run it meant convincing people we're trustworthy. In the end xVx refused to accept that part of the agreement, because they felt it would be a hollow victory, but the will was certainly there.

NewDawn would be another example of an alliance that I think everyone knows can trusted, to the point that I can think of few things that would surprise me more this round than an ND-initiated cancellation of the ND/NFI nap.

On the other hand, Apprime never qualified, partly due to their political actions and partly with how bad Cardinal is at diplomacy. Let me put it like this: calling female HCs prostitutes and demanding they show pics of their tits? Not a good first step towards cooperation with other alliances.

However, when we stabbed Dimentus, it was in the full knowledge that Ascendancy's day as superpower are over. We no longer have the will to play as actively as we did in round 30. In that light, making investments that might pay out in rounds to come makes little sense. All we want to do now is have a bit of fun while we wallow in incompetence. This round is surely the best effort so far, at least at that last bit.
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Unread 30 Aug 2010, 17:22   #94
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Re: Congratulations NFI

our incompetence is deep enough to drown in while wallowing this round!
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Unread 30 Aug 2010, 23:38   #95
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Re: Congratulations NFI

After CT heroically managed to get off the fence long enough to NAP NFI the only question remaining is...






...er...






...when does the next round start?
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Unread 31 Aug 2010, 07:30   #96
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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Don´t try to make us look like Angels here, iirc there is quite some more consistency to Ascendancy politics overall.
Hey hey hey, no need for that comparison aye? :-)
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Unread 2 Sep 2010, 11:54   #97
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Re: Congratulations NFI

urr.. just go and war now, quite bored out :S
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Unread 3 Sep 2010, 16:02   #98
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Re: Congratulations NFI

Moved the conversation about what happened X rounds ago to here.
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