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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 11:42   #51
midge5
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Re: Books

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
You appear to assume that you can only read books once. It also seems to be extremely doubtful that you have read Winnie-The-Pooh.
I don't think I have read Winnie-The-Pooh(more likely to have been read to me), that was in there as a general comment like the Toni Morrison book. I just forgot to not count it.

Also I rarely read a book more than once. There are a few exceptions but I usually find I can remember enough of the story that I get annoyed when rereading it. Even if I am noticing things which I missed first time round I would rather just read a new book.
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 13:16   #52
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Re: Books

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Originally Posted by Dark_Mage
I don't see the point in lists like this anyway without the choices explained like channel four do with their top 100 run downs. Did they ever do one of those with books by the way? I can't remember.
If you can't have a clip to show what you're talking about then they don't make it. these lists are generally the top 100 we have clips for.
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 13:20   #53
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Re: Books

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Originally Posted by Nodrog
Well given I doubt you think the Da Vinci Code is the best book of the last 100 years, I think youre managing somehow.
Obviously there is a line to be drawn somewhere, between populism and critical praise. For the record, I enjoyed the Da Vinci Code, and I can appreciate how it appeals to such a large amount of people. If a book does appeal to that many people then it has to be very good on some scale (not necessarily the best one, but one nonetheless).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Nah, I dont think that only allowing middle-class English teachers to vote is going to fix my complaint that the list is geared towards middle-class English teachers. In any case, you can no more be an 'expert' at reading books than you can be an 'expert' at listening to music or looking at paintings. Different books are going to appeal to different people, and its not a matter of 'expertise' (whatever that is).
You can be an expert at reading books, and, you can also be an expert at listening to music. In my experience a lot more can be gained from a book if it's read, not exactly with a critical eye, as such an attitude can spoil the mood and atmosphere, but with an attitude which is geared towards getting the most from it. This is more complicated than simply reading, many books require you to put effort in in order to get the most from them - attempt to make the links between the story and the language used, see the significance of the themes to the narrative and vice versa, gain an understanding of the structure used by the author and work out why it was used. Basically trying to notice everything the author put in there - and with a book like the Da Vinci Code you can look for ever and not find anything (I assume, I didn't try!).

This technique isn't quite as divorced from simply reading as it might seem - since reading a few things about it I've been trying to improve my own reading style, and I am making progress, but it's hard. I tend to stop every now and again and try and work this or that out, or work out the meaning behind a word or phrase that seems out of place, that sort of thing. I can only assume that people who judge these things are pretty darn good at it and I do believe that it leads you closer to a reasonable estimation of the objective quality of a book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
The best bet would just be to accept that compiling lists of the Best Books Of All Time is a hilariously silly thing to do. A more interesting idea imo would be to get people to give their own personal lists of their 10 favourite books along with their reasons why. Restrict it to people who've actually read quite a lot of books obviously so you get some context for evaluation.
I agree with you when you say it's silly though, I wouldn't actually support the compilation of 100 best books ever, no matter who did it. It's a far too subjective subject and perhaps more importantly there are simply too many books for any one person to have got anywhere close to "reading them all" outside of perhaps a very specific genre, even then I'm doubtful. The amount of time it takes for someone to read a book compared to the time it takes for someone to watch a film or listen to an album makes it a tough old subject to ever know everything about.

What you just mentioned could be a good idea for a thread though, "GD users top 10 books and reasons why" would be quite fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Well, me for one. I'm more likely to read the favourite book of a person that I respect than I am to read a book that most average people like, even if I hadnt previously heard of it. To take a random example, if I'm reading a biography of someone who I think it a great human being, I'm quite likely to check out some of the music and books they liked regardless of whether its something that I knew about already.
I've never actually done that

It sounds as good a book selection technique as any though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
To turn your question round, why would anyone prefer reading a list of stuff they already know about than a list which might introduce them to new, perhaps more obscure, things which may sound more interesting?
Obviously us being the new age cool kids that we are we don't just want to see stuff we have already read - but I was pretty much just referring to what I expected Joe Bloggs wanted to see in a list. Obviously this list was compiled for some kind of vague commercial reason (isn't everything these days? ) and it needs people to identify with it or they won't care.
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 19:59   #54
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Re: Books

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
You appear to assume that you can only read books once. It also seems to be extremely doubtful that you have read Winnie-The-Pooh.
I still read it . I think it's marvellously good.
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 20:56   #55
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Re: Books

Quote:
Originally Posted by midge5
This is what has stopped me reading The Grapes of Wrath.
Well go and read it. The two books are incredibly different - and whereas I don't care for Of Mice And Men, The Grapes of Wrath is on my top 5 list of all time.
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