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Unread 5 Jul 2008, 18:44   #1
jamesr1ley
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Join the Tokugawa Shogunate

Ok so this alliance is never going to be huge, or even big, but it will be fun. If you like the underdog or just want to join an alliance which isn't to serious then you should definitely consider this alliance.

As a member you will be responsible for helping us to build a rich and powerful alliance. At the moment this is only an ideal, but you need ideals to achieve anything.

This alliance is not about individuals but about working together to become something more.


Join an alliance where you can make a difference!
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Unread 6 Jul 2008, 01:47   #2
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Re: Join the Tokugawa Shogunate

In response to your query, no, I do not think you will be the next major PA alliance. Minor, you might, it only takes the will of a player. But not a major one because you barely understand the game, let alone have the tools and connections to make an alliance work.

Perhaps, you should read the #1 thread at this sub-forum. It gives you an idea of what you should expect, the sacrifices you will have to make, how hard it is to accomplish. There is a reason why the top 20 PA alliances are almost by definition: old recycled monsters that simply mutate every couple of rounds. Few, if any, have really started from scratch. A top alliance, whatever its current name, is usually an amalgamation of old friends, players, allegiances and networks, tools, philosophy, etc.

It is almost impossible to start from scratch, not necessarily because it is 'unachievable in theory,' but simply because an alliance is all about its players' commitment to a common goal, an alliance is about trust, is about long term satisfaction and other lofty goals. You cannot get that in a week, or even a round, or two... shit, for that matter, even the top 3 struggle with their morale past mid-round, EVERY ROUND.

Anyways, I was just trying to give you a tip, save you sometime, etc

I saw our wise moderators already erased some of our exchanges. I hope you read this before they erase it.

Last edited by Aedolaws; 6 Jul 2008 at 01:58.
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Unread 6 Jul 2008, 01:52   #3
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Re: Join the Tokugawa Shogunate

Aedolaws, quit yo jibber jabber and let this man have his dream.
(It is useful though to read the post on setting up an alliance)
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Unread 6 Jul 2008, 02:01   #4
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Re: Join the Tokugawa Shogunate

In all fairness Membrivio, I NEVER told him not to do it. Shit. What do I care? All I am doing is giving friendly advise. Am I going to be negatively criticized for trying to help the n00bs too? I simply want the new player to avoid the nightmare he is setting himself up to have.
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Unread 6 Jul 2008, 02:33   #5
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Re: Join the Tokugawa Shogunate

This is alliance recruitement, not alliance discussion. Your 'friendly' comments are not welcome. Wish the guy good luck. It's a game, not a nightmare whatever you do.
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Unread 6 Jul 2008, 02:55   #6
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Re: Join the Tokugawa Shogunate

k, my bad.

Dude, best of lucks to you. Really. Is a game and I agree we should all be free to waste our time the way we choose.

And incidentally, I hope both Membrivio and Makhil were more helpful to you than I was.
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Unread 6 Jul 2008, 14:34   #7
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Smile Re: Join the Tokugawa Shogunate

The Alliance currently ranks very well at 103 in the universe. The first priority is breaking into the top 100!

:-)
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Unread 7 Jul 2008, 22:33   #8
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Smile Re: Join the Tokugawa Shogunate

Down to 99! :-)
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Unread 7 Jul 2008, 22:51   #9
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Re: Join the Tokugawa Shogunate

hey, only 89 to go to the top 10!
good luck

(vote Quimby!)

Last edited by Aedolaws; 7 Jul 2008 at 23:02.
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Unread 8 Jul 2008, 12:30   #10
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Re: Join the Tokugawa Shogunate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil
This is alliance recruitement, not alliance discussion. Your 'friendly' comments are not welcome. Wish the guy good luck. It's a game, not a nightmare whatever you do.
There is and always has been a place for constructive criticism on the AR forum especially when it comes to new alliances. There really isn't that much for players coming to this forum looking for an alliance to base their decisions on which alliance to choose on and its also very hard for new alliances to stand out.

The constructive criticism and how they deal with this not only give the alliance a way to stand out but also help give players looking for an alliance something else to base their choice on so they are making the right decision for them rather than joining an alliance on limited information and then disappearing.

Also if its constructive its given the alliance help. Alot of people do not realise the time that they need to invest in the alliance, the knowledge they need and the responsibility the have to anyone who joins their alliance. You may have a urge to be in power but that shouldn't be the sole driving force as you will no doubt just end up having an alliance that screws over the new players who join your alliance.

Obviously there's a line which you have to be careful not to cross else it becomes needless flaming but a decent constructive post is better for all parties than simply posting 'gl'
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Unread 8 Jul 2008, 22:08   #11
jamesr1ley
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Smile Re: Join the Tokugawa Shogunate

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
There is and always has been a place for constructive criticism on the AR forum especially when it comes to new alliances. There really isn't that much for players coming to this forum looking for an alliance to base their decisions on which alliance to choose on and its also very hard for new alliances to stand out.

The constructive criticism and how they deal with this not only give the alliance a way to stand out but also help give players looking for an alliance something else to base their choice on so they are making the right decision for them rather than joining an alliance on limited information and then disappearing.

Also if its constructive its given the alliance help. Alot of people do not realise the time that they need to invest in the alliance, the knowledge they need and the responsibility the have to anyone who joins their alliance. You may have a urge to be in power but that shouldn't be the sole driving force as you will no doubt just end up having an alliance that screws over the new players who join your alliance.

Obviously there's a line which you have to be careful not to cross else it becomes needless flaming but a decent constructive post is better for all parties than simply posting 'gl'

I completely agree. However I think as you can see from the original post I am pretty realistic. Anyone reading this would be under no illusions.

I do agree however that if you post "advertising" your alliance you have to be able to justify yourself to criticism.
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Unread 9 Jul 2008, 11:37   #12
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Re: Join the Tokugawa Shogunate

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesr1ley
I completely agree. However I think as you can see from the original post I am pretty realistic. Anyone reading this would be under no illusions.

I do agree however that if you post "advertising" your alliance you have to be able to justify yourself to criticism.
The thing is while you may feel its realistic, to anyone who has been here a while your post is fairly standard for a new alliance and is full of 'pipe dreams' rather than realism. This is probably why Aedolaws was so dismissive, although to your credit you have done better than most alliances by maintaining activity on the thread (Most people post once and don't check the forums again)

Now I'll explain why the post seems to be somewhat of a pipe dream. Reading some of the posts furball deleted its seems that you are fairly new to the game which is a very big road block. Now back in round 1 when I started F-Crew being new to the game and starting an alliance wasn't an issue as everyone was new and there were hundreds if not thousands of new signups every single day. Over time though its got harder to start a viable alliance as your now up against established alliances, with a solid infrastructure and full of experienced players. You simply don't get the time to build that you once did and you pretty much have to hit the ground running.

Now your posts simply don't indicate an ability for you to do this. Your lack of experience in this game leaves you in a 'blind leading the blind' situation. Any new players you recruit are of little use to the alliance from an infrastructure pov as they need to learn the game but at the same time yourself needs to learn alot which makes it tough for you to give these and your alliance is just going to continually stall due to this

Now I could be wrong, you might be alot more ready to start an alliance than it seems, but if that is the case you need to do a much better in the first post on this thread of selling yourself as something more than another new alliance that's ill prepared. So if you have experience that highlights this be it in this game or a similar game or even if you have some leadership experience in RL (This is probably less important than gaming experience but its someting). And if the alliance has a more viable infrastructure be it from the alliance tools you have to your alliance structure then sell this. If you can sell your alliance better go and edit your first post and also make a reply to this post to highlight it. Don't lie though as that will just cause you issues later on.

If however your ability to sell the alliance is everything that's in the post then you need to take some action now. Your options from what I can tell are
  1. Put the idea on the back burner. Find an alliance that's close to your ideals, it doesn't need to be a top alliance but just one with the experience and infrastructure to help you learn the ropes. Spend a round or 2 with them, make some friends and contacts and then go back to your original idea potentially with some of the friends you have made to give you a solid base to build from
  2. Try and find some experience who will come on board and help you. This will probably be pretty tough as not many people will drop down to a new alliance run by someone who they don't know. Anyone who does you will have to be a little wary of as sometimes people have other motives so don't jump into it
  3. Find an alliance who would be willing to take you in as a wing. You won't get the full independence as the parent alliance will have a big say in your actions but you will get the benefit and support of this alliances members and infrastructure and while putting the ground work into your alliance. After a round or so you can then head off as a full blown alliance, and if you leave on good terms you also have a friendly alliance to help you out

Whatever you choose,keep the enthusiasm your showing but just try and embrace the bigger picture and the responsibility to you to your members (and as they are mostly going to be new players the game) so that your enthusiasm doesn't accidentaly destroy your members fun
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Unread 9 Jul 2008, 23:36   #13
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Smile Re: Join the Tokugawa Shogunate

Thankyou for that I appreciate your efforts to make such a comprehensive response.

Please take a look at my original post again,

"Ok so this alliance is never going to be huge, or even big, but it will be fun."

Admittedly I have almost no experience. I am quite aware how it affects my chances of success.

However I am not looking to create a big alliance, I am looking to create a niche alliance. An alliance for those who have similar priorities to myself.

The priorities are different to those of the serious players. My priority is to have fun. Not necessarily by winning, or even ranking highly.

Just like big banks dominate the world financial markets, there is still room for the small hedge fund to go in there, make a buck and get out.

That is what I want to offer. ALthough welcome I am not targetting old skool experienced players. What I would want is ambitious, quick learners who have a risk taking nature.


Yes, the alliance will never be big. But some of us would rather be a HC of something rather than be a nothing in something.


I have not and will not pretend to know how to win. All I said is be a part of something and have fun.


Is that so wrong?

Last edited by jamesr1ley; 9 Jul 2008 at 23:41.
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Unread 10 Jul 2008, 00:35   #14
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Re: Join the Tokugawa Shogunate

The thing is, the niche you are looking to fill is one that's pretty well catered for by the top15 alliances. While it does have its hardcore alliances there are alliances like ASS, F-Crew, Hidden Agenda, HR and ToF who have specialised in providing the kind of environment that you are talking about.

However this is a game that's ultimately a war game and as an alliance you really cant ignore the 'politics' of the game totally. You can certainly play in a way that doesn't totally resolve around the chase for number 1 and the 'politics' but if you want to have fun you cant totally ignore it. There really is only one alliance in this game that gets away with it and doesn't need any formal leadership or structure and that's Asc but the main difference with them is their membership base has an experience level second to none and hence doesnt need it. New players need the certain level of structure and you have a responsibility to your members to provide not only a fun environment but the structure to allow them to learn the ropes and get hooked to the game
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Unread 10 Jul 2008, 10:29   #15
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Re: Join the Tokugawa Shogunate

In this case I have to agree with Wakey that the niche you are seeking to fill is pretty well catered.
I will make an analogy:
In business life you have start ups that seek to fill a niche in a market. But before they enter the market and start doing business they perform market research to determine whether there is a good enough chance that they will be successful (or not) with their start up. The ones who fail to do market research often end up bankrupt by being one of the many in the niche.(or are very very lucky in succeeding).

It seems that you haven't done this "market research". In this case the market is fairly stable, information is abound, and you can get a good view of what is around and what isn't. Wakey pointed you also at the possibility of a "wing", so that you can be semi-autonomous and eventually start an autonomous alliance. I think you should consider this option seriously.
Also, you could join one of the above mentioned alliances (+ Orbit and Redemption) and apply for an officer position. Many alliances are desperate for good officers and I think you could have a good chance becoming one. (after some "on the game" training ofc) In that way you can play for fun and contribute to make it more fun for other players as well.

Wakey also remarked about the politics aspect that you can't ignore it. This is most certainly true: although you may not do politics, others will take you into account and handle accordingly... which forces you to politick.

To be honest: if you continue with this effort directed at that particular niche I give you squat chance. You can very well be a good addition to a top15 alliance, imo.
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Unread 10 Jul 2008, 17:23   #16
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Re: Join the Tokugawa Shogunate

am just going to say goodluck mate, don't want to be negative about it.

Always good to see players (new or old) start building something
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Unread 10 Jul 2008, 19:14   #17
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Re: Join the Tokugawa Shogunate

Sorry for causing such an argument! relax guys its just a friendly discussion over a game.


So you guys up for joining The alliance next round and showing me how its done?
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Unread 10 Jul 2008, 20:13   #18
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Re: Join the Tokugawa Shogunate

Aedolaws/Membrivio - I've removed your bickering posts. So please cut it out.

Aedolaws - The simple fact of the matter is your initial posts were borderline abuse, as I said in my first post I understand the point you were making with them but there was nothing constructive in them for jamesr1ley to learn from. Being negative while being constructive is fine as thats trying to be helpful, being negative without anything constructive is just abuse.This is the reason furball removed your initial posts and it is also why furball left whats now your first post on the thread. It also undoutably helped form Membrivio's opinion on your posts, because as he has said himself (in one of the posts i removed) having read it without the deleted posts it seemed alot more constructive. Learn from Membrivio's reaction so your posting improves and save me from the 5million complaints i get everytime you post (Also learn to read whos posting so you dont go around calling people such as forum mods morons for their posts when at no point did that person say anything against you posting constructive critism)
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Unread 11 Jul 2008, 02:28   #19
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Re: Join the Tokugawa Shogunate

...

Last edited by Aedolaws; 11 Jul 2008 at 06:28.
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Unread 12 Jul 2008, 13:14   #20
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Smile Re: Join the Tokugawa Shogunate

The alliance now ranks 74th in the universe. Onwards and upwards! The underdog may have its day!
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Unread 26 Jul 2008, 21:13   #21
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Re: Join the Tokugawa Shogunate

Just to let you lot know, the alliance ended ranked 34
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Unread 26 Jul 2008, 21:18   #22
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Smile Re: Join the Tokugawa Shogunate

who is up for the next round?

maybe someone else can be the HC? The alliance probably would benefit form some members with a bit more experience.

Also for those interested about the name and theory behind the Tokugawa Shogunate can take a look at the article on wikipedia at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokugawa_shogunate

Last edited by jamesr1ley; 26 Jul 2008 at 21:34.
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