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29 Oct 2005, 10:06
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#1
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Ajaj Kapten!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sweden
Posts: 638
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Killing palestinian terrorists
Earlier this week Israel took a known terroristleader out, using rockets fired from a helicopter gunship. The devastation was quite massive, wounding people next to the car etc.
Why do they use rockets instead of the automatic cannon, wich should be capable of destroying ordinary cars.
Wouldn't it look better in the eyes of the world?
Is there some technological explanation?
/Johan
__________________
Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
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29 Oct 2005, 10:26
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#2
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Don't make me declare war
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 2,913
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
lol
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29 Oct 2005, 10:57
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#3
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,635
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
It'd be nice if you'd link to an article which proves this rocketry.
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29 Oct 2005, 15:42
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#4
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Emperor
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: in front of a computer
Posts: 490
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ärketrollmannen
Earlier this week Israel took a known terroristleader out, using rockets fired from a helicopter gunship. The devastation was quite massive, wounding people next to the car etc.
Why do they use rockets instead of the automatic cannon, wich should be capable of destroying ordinary cars.
Wouldn't it look better in the eyes of the world?
Is there some technological explanation?
/Johan
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Well i have seen military combat scenes where loads of bullets where used and it looks very ugly. Blood, bones, human pieces everywhere. A burned out destroyed car looks much cleaner (after it burned out).
So i guess they use rockets because it makes the whole thing look more acceptable to those audiences which matter (voters of their and other governments). The public should be used to pictures of those destroyed and burned out cars anyway since they are so regularly used "by others" in suicide bombings. Maybe "poetic justice" is also a part of it since they kill them by explosion and fire like the terrorists mostly kill their targets.
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29 Oct 2005, 16:01
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#5
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramihyn
Well i have seen military combat scenes where loads of bullets where used and it looks very ugly. Blood, bones, human pieces everywhere. A burned out destroyed car looks much cleaner (after it burned out).
So i guess they use rockets because it makes the whole thing look more acceptable to those audiences which matter (voters of their and other governments). The public should be used to pictures of those destroyed and burned out cars anyway since they are so regularly used "by others" in suicide bombings. Maybe "poetic justice" is also a part of it since they kill them by explosion and fire like the terrorists mostly kill their targets.
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I just had a wonderful image of Israeli pilots shouting out " IRONY LOL!" after they've blown up the terrorist leaders. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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29 Oct 2005, 17:50
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#6
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,635
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
horn's right. it's all about desert strike. the helicopters sucked when all you had left was bullets. as soon as you gained a missile or three, oh yeah!
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29 Oct 2005, 18:14
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#7
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Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ärketrollmannen
Why do they use rockets instead of the automatic cannon, wich should be capable of destroying ordinary cars.
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Rockets can be guided to the target; cannon shells can't.
These attacks are probably conducted from a mile or more away (otherwise the terrorists would see the helicopter and disperse/flee/etc). It's not that easy to hit a moving vehicle from that distance with cannon fire. SOP would be to walk the fire into the target but if the target's a vehicle they can evade while you're trying to do that. You could end up shooting-up the entire neighborhood and still missing the target--so you want a guided munition, which means you need a rocket.
__________________
The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
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29 Oct 2005, 19:01
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#8
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Caveat Lector
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 3,038
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
Rockets can be guided to the target; cannon shells can't.
These attacks are probably conducted from a mile or more away (otherwise the terrorists would see the helicopter and disperse/flee/etc). It's not that easy to hit a moving vehicle from that distance with cannon fire. SOP would be to walk the fire into the target but if the target's a vehicle they can evade while you're trying to do that. You could end up shooting-up the entire neighborhood and still missing the target--so you want a guided munition, which means you need a rocket.
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I concur, that's precicely what these helicopters are designed for (with tanks in mind).
The Hellfire is an example of this type of missle:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-114_Hellfire
Quote:
AGM-114 Hellfire (Helicopter launched fire-and-forget) is a U.S. air-to-ground missile system designed to defeat tanks and other individual targets while minimizing the exposure of the launch vehicle to enemy fire. Hellfire uses laser guidance and is designed to accept other guidance packages. It is used on helicopters against heavily armored vehicles at longer standoff distances than any other U.S. Army missiles now in the inventory.
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29 Oct 2005, 19:30
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#9
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Pimp Mack Daddy
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 36
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Hmm.. note also that when there's murdering and killing in Israel/OccupiedPalestine they call it MIDDLE EAST VIOLENCE!
so if the israelis are killing muslims in the MIDDLE EAST then how come the big SHOCK that the IRANIAN president said ISRAEL should be hit back! NOTE Iranians are not even ARABS!!!
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Angels
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29 Oct 2005, 19:32
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#10
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Pimp Mack Daddy
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 36
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
the double standards are getting so outrageous in modern politics!
it always makes me remember the "constitution" change in George Orwells "animal Farm" where the Pigs changed to constitution "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others!"
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Angels
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29 Oct 2005, 20:51
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#11
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Caveat Lector
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 3,038
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
The israeli army uses guided missles because they can't aim with the guns, their noses get in the way.
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29 Oct 2005, 21:34
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#12
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Emperor
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: in front of a computer
Posts: 490
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
Rockets can be guided to the target; cannon shells can't.
These attacks are probably conducted from a mile or more away (otherwise the terrorists would see the helicopter and disperse/flee/etc). It's not that easy to hit a moving vehicle from that distance with cannon fire. SOP would be to walk the fire into the target but if the target's a vehicle they can evade while you're trying to do that. You could end up shooting-up the entire neighborhood and still missing the target--so you want a guided munition, which means you need a rocket.
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I disagree Pointless to start discussing it without detailed info about the raid though.
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29 Oct 2005, 22:40
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#13
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crashed computer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,257
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
They'd have been better off using a spectre gunship, that way you can specify if you want the guy's nose blown off first, or if you'd rather have his left ear.
__________________
IRC quotes:
<Walrus> Let's all poke him next time he appears.
<Heiro> I think that is wise, Master Walrus
<Gryffin> ungrateful wretches
<Gryffin> they should be here!
<Gryffin> so I can grace them with my presence
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29 Oct 2005, 23:32
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#14
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Israel is the 'pet' wild beast of the West.
It's methods are brutal and excessive. It will attack first think later. It is the brute force behind the intellectual softness of the west.
I do not like Israel. I understand that I need Israel.
There is a very true point about fear over Iranian nuclear development, it runs as follows: IF Iran where ever to get close to creating a nuclear weapon, the scientists involved would all die, the facility in question would be destroyed. Not by the west. Israel would get there first.
Mossad is to Mi6 what Mi6 is to the CIA.
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hi
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30 Oct 2005, 00:20
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#15
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Caveat Lector
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 3,038
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
Israel is the 'pet' wild beast of the West.
It's methods are brutal and excessive. It will attack first think later. It is the brute force behind the intellectual softness of the west.
I do not like Israel. I understand that I need Israel.
There is a very true point about fear over Iranian nuclear development, it runs as follows: IF Iran where ever to get close to creating a nuclear weapon, the scientists involved would all die, the facility in question would be destroyed. Not by the west. Israel would get there first.
Mossad is to Mi6 what Mi6 is to the CIA.
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Why don't you just shut the **** up.
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30 Oct 2005, 00:25
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#16
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick James
Hmm.. note also that when there's murdering and killing in Israel/OccupiedPalestine they call it MIDDLE EAST VIOLENCE!
so if the israelis are killing muslims in the MIDDLE EAST then how come the big SHOCK that the IRANIAN president said ISRAEL should be hit back! NOTE Iranians are not even ARABS!!!
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I have no idea what you mean by this. In fact, I think I'm losing braincells each time I reread it.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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30 Oct 2005, 01:28
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#17
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Emperor
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: in front of a computer
Posts: 490
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
Israel is the 'pet' wild beast of the West.
It's methods are brutal and excessive. It will attack first think later. It is the brute force behind the intellectual softness of the west.
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I hear what you say - kind of like the US is the 'pet' wild beast of the intellectually soft netherlands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
I do not like Israel. I understand that I need Israel.
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Applying sentences from wiser people to whatever comes along, doesnt always work out...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
There is a very true point about fear over Iranian nuclear development, it runs as follows: IF Iran where ever to get close to creating a nuclear weapon, the scientists involved would all die, the facility in question would be destroyed. Not by the west. Israel would get there first.
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They all happily work together against everyone who has nuclear stuff down there. See "h3-blitz", "opera" and some other operations in the 80s and the iran-iraq war.
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30 Oct 2005, 01:57
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#18
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramihyn
I hear what you say - kind of like the US is the 'pet' wild beast of the intellectually soft netherlands.
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no
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramihyn
Applying sentences from wiser people to whatever comes along, doesnt always work out...
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what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramihyn
They all happily work together against everyone who has nuclear stuff down there. See "h3-blitz", "opera" and some other operations in the 80s and the iran-iraq war.
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oh i can see that your future posts are going to give me a reason to live.
[ if you don't understand my original post (and you obviously didn't) just ask questions. let me explain it to you. please let me put it into words that you can understand. don't just spam crap the way you just did.]
__________________
hi
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30 Oct 2005, 02:05
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#19
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Caveat Lector
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 3,038
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
[if you don't understand my original post (and you obviously didn't) just ask questions. let me explain it to you. please let me put it into words that you can understand. don't just spam crap the way you just did.]
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He did understand your original post, it's you who is not getting it.
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30 Oct 2005, 02:11
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#20
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
He did understand your original post, it's you who is not getting it.
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i'll summarise me shall i?
to make it easier.
Israel is a necessary evil
now i hate having to put my ideas in so brief a statement but i have done so on the understanding that it will stop a lot of unnecessary posting and utter crap spewing from your insane finger or his inability to read.
(never underestimate how much I hate being forced to dumb down my idea just so that you can't possibly fail to understand it.)
__________________
hi
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30 Oct 2005, 02:22
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#21
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Caveat Lector
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 3,038
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
i'll summarise me shall i?
to make it easier.
Israel is a necessary evil
now i hate having to put my ideas in so brief a statement but i have done so on the understanding that it will stop a lot of unnecessary posting and utter crap spewing from your insane finger or his inability to read.
(never underestimate how much I hate being forced to dumb down my idea just so that you can't possibly fail to understand it.)
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What excuses you from having to explain your arguments? You frequently make these bold statements, and never back them up. Why not also make a statement, and here's a novel idea, explain that statement.
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30 Oct 2005, 02:28
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#22
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deserves a medal
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,211
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
Why don't you just shut the **** up.
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You frequently make these bold statements, and never back them up.
Why not also make a statement, and here's a novel idea, explain that statement.
__________________
"I have with me two gods, Persuasion and Compulsion."
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30 Oct 2005, 03:01
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#23
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Caveat Lector
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 3,038
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
You frequently make these bold statements, and never back them up.
Why not also make a statement, and here's a novel idea, explain that statement.
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Shut the **** up.
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30 Oct 2005, 03:28
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#24
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
During this thread I had sex with s|k's mother. Twice. I fell off the shaking mountain of blubber the first time around and felt compelled to get back on for her sake. Trust me I won't be going back there again. Well I might if it's current expansion rate continues but that's more to do with my inability to breathe vacuum than any desire on my part.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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30 Oct 2005, 03:29
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#25
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Evil inside
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
Israel is a necessary evil
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If Israel did not exist, I very much doubt that Iran would spend massive ammounts of money on trying to get nukes. Just like Pakistand wouldnt have done it, if they knew India would not and they were on good terms with India.
__________________
<Germania>but you called Fury a bully, and that is terribly unfair
<Hicks>Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
<Dreadnought>You cant whois on Eclipse server without a registered nic, which mr ****stirrer doesnt have.
<Almeida> well i like to grow fat myself too, and when i have enough ships then i can engage in big battles
<Nantoz> Zhukov for Lord Protector!
<Jakiri> (Windows)XP was fine on release
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30 Oct 2005, 03:31
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#26
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
If Israel did not exist, I very much doubt that Iran would spend massive ammounts of money on trying to get nukes. Just like Pakistand wouldnt have done it, if they knew India would not and they were on good terms with India.
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And if people didn't exist none of this would have ever happened. Now that we've settled that intricate dilemma hopefully we can move on to the next part of our survey entitled "what the bloody hell was wrong with genghis khan then?" It's a good survey, three parts malt and four parts liquor.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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30 Oct 2005, 04:32
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#27
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Caveat Lector
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 3,038
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
During this thread I had sex with s|k's mother. Twice. I fell off the shaking mountain of blubber the first time around and felt compelled to get back on for her sake. Trust me I won't be going back there again. Well I might if it's current expansion rate continues but that's more to do with my inability to breathe vacuum than any desire on my part.
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Necropheliac.
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30 Oct 2005, 05:25
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#28
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Miles Teg
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Dom City
Posts: 5,192
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
Necropheliac.
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If I reason on, heaven is actually a vacuum?
****.
__________________
Audentes Fortuna Iuvat
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30 Oct 2005, 06:01
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#29
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
Necropheliac.
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All you can eat baby.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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30 Oct 2005, 09:09
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#30
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Emperor
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: in front of a computer
Posts: 490
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
if you don't understand my original post (and you obviously didn't) just ask questions. let me explain it to you. please let me put it into words that you can understand. don't just spam crap the way you just did.
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... and i thought the IRONY tags wherent needed. I'll try to make it clearer though it probably wont work due to my limited english vocabulary :s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
Israel is the 'pet' wild beast of the West.
It's methods are brutal and excessive. It will attack first think later. It is the brute force behind the intellectual softness of the west.
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This paragraph is just utterly stupid and an insult if taken seriously. I tried to show the obvious by swapping "Israel" with the "US" as i guess currently many people would agree that the description "It's methods are brutal and excessive. It will attack first think later." (lately) can be applied to the US. I have chosen to replace "the west" with "the netherlands" because of the "intellectual softness" attribute, the fact that the netherlands are obviously one of the countries in your (dubious) "the west" collection, are sufficiently small to not freighten anybody and most importantly have the "international court of justice" (ICJ) in Den Haag. My guess is that the ICJ beeing an installment of the UN was a rather decent choice as "intellectual softness" replacement icon in the current general opinion. On top of all you imply that Israel is brutal, excessive and wont think first before attacking.
All of these are blatant oversimplifications which dominate the daily newspaper headlines but if you take a look at what is going on behind, things often look very different.
The common "the west" cliche includes many countries and the last iraq invasion should have made it very obvious that there are very different opinions on how to proceed with solving problems down in "that region". Several countries have a serious problem with some of isreals behaviour down in the region and you may look up the history of US vetos in the UN to verify that - and while you are at it, you may want to look into the pre-ambel of the UN-charta...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
I do not like Israel. I understand that I need Israel.
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To which i replied:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramihyn
Applying sentences from wiser people to whatever comes along, doesnt always work out...
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Your phrasing and sentence structure looks like you are (ab)using a phrase from a rather accredited author. It just annoyed me that you seemingly took his phrase twisting it into a obscene political reasoning seemingly sanctioning "brutal" force esp. since many people would forcefully argue that the unsolved palestine-isreal conflict by artificial "creation" of isreal is the SOURCE of the problem.
But feel free to ignore this as it was my personal interpretion and certainly would be argueable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
There is a very true point about fear over Iranian nuclear development, it runs as follows: IF Iran where ever to get close to creating a nuclear weapon, the scientists involved would all die, the facility in question would be destroyed. Not by the west. Israel would get there first.
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The only paragraph in your post which didnt make my toenails curl up. If you look up the history of the 80s/90s down in that region regarding Iran, Iraq, Israel, USA and france, you know that what you described did already happen. The history of those operations also thwarts much of what you said in the paragraphs above.
You seem to post about some topics just because you like to read your words.
ps: sorry for this "going off-topic" in here - i really try to avoid it and it didnt took long to regret my original reply to yahwe because of that
Last edited by Ramihyn; 30 Oct 2005 at 09:14.
Reason: clarifying phrases
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30 Oct 2005, 13:40
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#31
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Ajaj Kapten!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sweden
Posts: 638
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weeks
It'd be nice if you'd link to an article which proves this rocketry.
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An article that proves* Israel uses rockets instead of cannons everytime they attack, or an article that proves* that they used it this time?
*Media lies etc
__________________
Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
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30 Oct 2005, 17:09
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#32
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ärketrollmannen
An article that proves* Israel uses rockets instead of cannons everytime they attack, or an article that proves* that they used it this time?
*Media lies etc
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Something from a vaguely respectable source would be nice concerning either would be nice.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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30 Oct 2005, 17:34
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#33
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Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
__________________
Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
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30 Oct 2005, 17:37
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#34
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
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I said respectable not that jumped up bolshevist rag you're all so fond of prattling on about. Wouldn't get that sort of drivel reported on fox news no sirree bob.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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31 Oct 2005, 06:06
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#35
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USS Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ärketrollmannen
Earlier this week Israel took a known terroristleader out, using rockets fired from a helicopter gunship. The devastation was quite massive, wounding people next to the car etc.
Why do they use rockets instead of the automatic cannon, wich should be capable of destroying ordinary cars.
Wouldn't it look better in the eyes of the world?
Is there some technological explanation?
/Johan
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They tried yelling LIGHTNING BOLT, LIGHTNING BOLT, LIGHTNING BOLT but it didn't seem to work as well as the rocket.
[btw---its nice to see you back on GD, it's been awhile.]
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
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31 Oct 2005, 09:49
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#36
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Ajaj Kapten!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sweden
Posts: 638
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Re: Killing palestinian terrorists
Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
They tried yelling LIGHTNING BOLT, LIGHTNING BOLT, LIGHTNING BOLT but it didn't seem to work as well as the rocket.
[btw---its nice to see you back on GD, it's been awhile.]
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I always read the forums, most of the times that is enough, you are entertaining enough as it is without me adding anything.
I hope that BBClink was enough, othervise I can probably find some article in english if you really want to.
Video of american helicopter firing at soft vehicles
Don't really know the distance here, but the aim seems to be near perfect
__________________
Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
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