For all the clueless ppl claiming to know something about the R6 Xeta-FoS relations

[Lord_Olrik]

lil pa history lesson about r6
------------------------------------

the idea behind the Xeta and FoS cooperation was to work together incluster to keep Fury&friends buzy from the first ticks by not allowing them in xety/fos cluster alliances and attacking asap INCLUSTER.

as a coords exchange wasnt what we were aiming for i created a chan on pa net called #highcommand and gathered HC of Xanadu, Elysium, Silver, TFD, NoS, Wolfpack, Deus, CELL, ND, hirr, templar, Rock, another alliance working with rock and templar i forgot the name, GLX (pack wanted them in iirc) and for the time they seemt to work with deus: titans.

we setup a system that allowed us to bring our members together without exchanging coords (wont go into details here but it worked more or less) and the result was that differrent to r5 where everybody complained about having only hostiles incluster everyone was happy coz his/her cluster was a FoS/Xeta fortess (ofc not everyone but alot of ppl ).

this combined with the very early stricts and the best gals of fury&co only farming (some farmed faster than we could attack them and take the roids) was imho the key to succes r6.

[gzambo]

and it worked very nicely thank u

[Faberius]

true true big bro.

Perhaps you could do an addendum on why it so quickly dissolved after the 'defeat' of FLTV

[Aryn]

hmm.. i don't remember that channel (then again there were lots of them..) which server was that one on?

[gzambo]

Originally posted by Lord_Olrik
lil pa history lesson about r6
------------------------------------

another alliance working with rock and templar i forgot the name,

if i remember correctly it was G-II

[Lord_Olrik]

hmm yeah maybe ill do that next week

[Scouse]

Originally posted by Aryn
which server was that one on?

Originally posted by Lord_Olrik
i created a chan on pa net called #highcommand

Hope that helps, Aryn.

[Lord_Olrik]

yes it was G-II, Kah_Hracht and Imarbles were the HCs i think and Aryn i dont think uve been in. we limited the number of HCs per ally in order not to get a 50 ppl chan

[Aryn]

lol.. ta scouse

ah.. not only was i not invited.. i was never told about that one.
that's ok.. i was like the HC who wasn't an HC. a figurehead if you will. at least most of the members liked me even if the rest of the HC didn't

[Teh_Necro]

I'd put it down to command staff staying up untill ungodly hours arranging countless attacks, but ya know we all have opinions

No seriously, it was a great effort, Furgion deserved the kicking they got, and the rest of the universe proved that we were made of the same orginisation that they possed. Of course afterwards we managed to prevent stagnation as we kept our blocks well enough apart, although there was some fence sitters who managed to exploit the stiuation, but hey what can u do?

-Necro

[Zh|l]

Originally posted by Teh_Necro
I'd put it down to command staff staying up untill ungodly hours arranging countless attacks, but ya know we all have opinions

No seriously, it was a great effort, Furgion deserved the kicking they got, and the rest of the universe proved that we were made of the same orginisation that they possed. Of course afterwards we managed to prevent stagnation as we kept our blocks well enough apart, although there was some fence sitters who managed to exploit the stiuation, but hey what can u do?

-Necro

Noone should expect me to miss this!

Furgion deserved nothing. You are placing a stupid good vs evil thing here. AlbinoSqrl made a thread to Deus' REAL intentions in winning the round.

I applaud FoS/Xeta for r6. They did well, but it wasnt a kicking. The war leaned in FLTTV's favour, and I only have two words to say.

Operation Barghest.

[AlbinoSquirrel]

Originally posted by Zh|l

I applaud FoS/Xeta for r6. They did well, but it wasnt a kicking. The war leaned in FLTTV's favour, and I only have two words to say.

Operation Barghest.

I have one word for you in reply

"Legion"

*snicker*

[Maddix]

Originally posted by Teh_Necro
No seriously, it was a great effort, Furgion deserved the kicking they got, and the rest of the universe proved that we were made of the same orginisation that they possed. Of course afterwards we managed to prevent stagnation as we kept our blocks well enough apart, although there was some fence sitters who managed to exploit the stiuation, but hey what can u do?

You may recall that while Legion and Fury were beaten they did not allow themselves to deteriorate to the point that most beaten alliances do. Instead when Xeta decided to turn on the slightly weaker FoS, (imo) it was the help of the so called "beaten" FLTV that helped to take Xeta down a peg or two.

Deus' intention from the start I believe was to prevent stagnation, something they achieved well. R6 was the most entertaining round in recent memory without too much stagnation, but it was undoubtedly the resilience of Legion, Fury and co that allowed the round to last as long as did.

[Axis_WLF]

<waves to 1:23 in r6> and the many other xan And company galaxies.

Definatly was not a kicking as we got thumbs outta our asses and started to work nicely and kick some butt again in r6. The thing that hurt us the most was at the very start of the game when "allies" had little more than 0 cooperation. NO exchange of coords hardly and thus cluster alliances were uber crap. We hurt ourselves more than the war did but when we started working together we made a nice come back.

[WipeOut]

Originally posted by Maddix
You may recall that while Legion and Fury were beaten they did not allow themselves to deteriorate to the point that most beaten alliances do.

Just a quick one before I finally head off to bed (will reply to your counter-reply tomorrow Maddix)
So far I agreed with most of your posts in this thread (more or less) but...

You only did not deteriorate because you were granted the right to live by FOS in that round, if that would not have happened, even your alliance would have lost members (as it already began doing).

The Legion was likely an alliance which had some of the most loyal members, though even The Legion would have suffered if FoS would have decided to give you the last stab (like you lot had done the round before).

[Salomo]

Originally posted by Zh|l
Noone should expect me to miss this!

Furgion deserved nothing. You are placing a stupid good vs evil thing here. AlbinoSqrl made a thread to Deus' REAL intentions in winning the round.

And cause alby says it (and it fits what you like to hear) it's true?

Alby's REAL intentions if i recall that thread correctly did not match my real intentions, and others in Deus command had yet again other intentions. And without meaning any offense to alby, he was not very active r6 so i'm not sure how well he could make his intentions rule deus' actions or in how far his intentions can be transfered onto deus in general.

[Norseman]

Originally posted by Axis_WLF
<waves to 1:23 in r6> and the many other xan And company galaxies.

Definatly was not a kicking as we got thumbs outta our asses and started to work nicely and kick some butt again in r6. The thing that hurt us the most was at the very start of the game when "allies" had little more than 0 cooperation. NO exchange of coords hardly and thus cluster alliances were uber crap. We hurt ourselves more than the war did but when we started working together we made a nice come back.

Xeta&FoS made the better preperation, that shouldnt be used as an excuse.. since everything that happends in this game is a product of the preperation made beforehand

you kicked some asses when... suddenly you had just Xanadu and Elysium to fight. That is a comeback yes, a kinda nice one aswell.. but with two (arguable 3) alliances to concentrate on, against a side where some galaxies ofc decided to fencesit aswell.. surely there at all time were butts free to be kicked

[Jester]

Originally posted by Zh|l
Furgion deserved nothing. You are placing a stupid good vs evil thing here. AlbinoSqrl made a thread to Deus' REAL intentions in winning the round.

I'm not going to go into great lengths here, but you're not only misremembering a post that was never very representative for Deus as a whole in the first place, but you're also assuming that the post in itself wasn't a 'Deusism' (if you will permit me to coin the term). Fury/Legion 'deserved' exactly what they got. To say otherwise would be to null your 'stupid good vs evil thing' statement. And it was indeed a sound thrashing. However, Deus played as if there was an axis: fun vs boredom, and in this case there was a certain 'morality' to Fury/Legion's loss. And indeed to allying with said duo again when the game threatened to stagnate.

Jester

[Salomo]

Originally posted by Axis_WLF
<waves to 1:23 in r6> and the many other xan And company galaxies.

Definatly was not a kicking as we got thumbs outta our asses and started to work nicely and kick some butt again in r6. The thing that hurt us the most was at the very start of the game when "allies" had little more than 0 cooperation. NO exchange of coords hardly and thus cluster alliances were uber crap. We hurt ourselves more than the war did but when we started working together we made a nice come back.

aw, come on, you can hardly blame no exchange of coords for cluster alliances being crap and you loosing. If i recall correctly we knew the Furgion gals within our cluster very fast, do you really want to say we possibly knew the furgion gals before you did?

[Maddix]

Originally posted by WipeOut
Just a quick one before I finally head off to bed (will reply to your counter-reply tomorrow Maddix)
So far I agreed with most of your posts in this thread (more or less) but...

You only did not deteriorate because you were granted the right to live by FOS in that round, if that would not have happened, even your alliance would have lost members (as it already began doing).

The Legion was likely an alliance which had some of the most loyal members, though even The Legion would have suffered if FoS would have decided to give you the last stab (like you lot had done the round before).

Had FoS not "granted us the right to live" they too would have died as not only would they have had to take on Xeta one on one (or 6 on 4 or whatever it was) but they'd have had firepower diverted to hitting FLTV as well as incoming from them. The decision to work with FLTV by FoS was one of the major decisions of that round imo.

Oh and Legion did lose a fair members that round, mostly before the Xeta vs FoS war. Those members we lost were the less loyal and dedicated ones tho...those that when the going gets tough just buckle. This was the main reason for our success in R7 too I think, cos R6 left us with only the core, dedicated players.

[Barrow|Pony]

Aye, we were smart ones.

[Teh_Necro]

i can accept your point of view, and as a representative of fury at the time would expect no less.

However let me remind you of what you guys did in round 5. After Nocex tooks its beating you back stabbed some allies, to as you would argue, prevent stagnation.

I hardly call Legion vs Wolfpack and Fury vs Elysium a stagnation preventing contest, instead i'd call it something to give our members to do untill the round is over, and offering them roids as well. CAn't blame you there, i'd of prolly done the same myself.


However it was this that lead to Xeta and FoS being developed in essence, perhaps not entirley but it certainly influenced those two blocks being formed.

We felt you deserved what you gotand any obserd claims that you came back in round 6 on your own accord is quite frankly standing on the shoulders of others, it was FoS that saved a little of your dignity.

I don't really want to see this turning into a slagning match, we have enough of those on here, so please make any reply constructive and avoid insults.

-Necro

[Salomo]

Originally posted by Maddix
Had FoS not "granted us the right to live" they too would have died as not only would they have had to take on Xeta one on one (or 6 on 4 or whatever it was) but they'd have had firepower diverted to hitting FLTV as well as incoming from them. The decision to work with FLTV by FoS was one of the major decisions of that round imo.

You are correct when assuming the only two options were to either have FoS fight Xeta with Furgion or to have FoS fight Xeta without "letting furgion live". That assumption is incorrect however.

[AlbinoSquirrel]

Originally posted by Salomo
You are correct when assuming the only two options were to either have FoS fight Xeta with Furgion or to have FoS fight Xeta without "letting furgion live". That assumption is incorrect however.

You contradicted yourself :\

[Maddix]

Originally posted by AlbinoSquirrel
You contradicted yourself :\

That confused me a little too

[hAl]

I remember like 50% of all galls sitting on FoS tag from about six week on into the game. Many fltv members were let into FoS alliances protecting them from further destruction.

War would have been better if FoS would have split but still would have gotten fltv support on their sides to improve their chances against Xeta block. Some fltv more on Deus side and some on WP/NoS side. That would have been interesting.

First all against fltv and then all against xeta made for a rather predictable outcome in both wars. Were nice wars in PA history due to a lot of the universe being involved but no real doubt in where they would result in from the moment they started.

hAl

25:10 Adelante

[WipeOut]

Originally posted by Maddix
Had FoS not "granted us the right to live" they too would have died as not only would they have had to take on Xeta one on one (or 6 on 4 or whatever it was) but they'd have had firepower diverted to hitting FLTV as well as incoming from them.

I apoligise for my choice of wording: "If FoS would not have decided to cooperate with FLTV..."

The decision to work with FLTV by FoS was one of the major decisions of that round imo.

I do not deny it, I remember the meetings well, and I have to admit that I enjoyed working with FLTV a lot more than working with XeTa (but that is no secret). Round 6 was a fun round, and not just because NoS ended high up that round. I think few people were bored, and I hope for the next round it will be simular. I think, as FoS was secretly building up recrouces and fleet back then, FoS could have survived a war with XeTa, and I know for a fact, that we would not have had the risk of XeTa and FLTV ganging up.

Oh and Legion did lose a fair members that round, mostly before the Xeta vs FoS war. Those members we lost were the less loyal and dedicated ones tho...those that when the going gets tough just buckle. This was the main reason for our success in R7 too I think, cos R6 left us with only the core, dedicated players.

Getting rid of the 'illoyal scum' is never weakening, as you in my opinion rightfully state. And yes, you 'repaid' us well in round 7.

*off to work*

[CamelToe]

Originally posted by WipeOut
I do not deny it, I remember the meetings well, and I have to admit that I enjoyed working with FLTV a lot more than working with XeTa (but that is no secret). Round 6 was a fun round, and not just because NoS ended high up that round. I think few people were bored, and I hope for the next round it will be simular. I think, as FoS was secretly building up recrouces and fleet back then, FoS could have survived a war with XeTa, and I know for a fact, that we would not have had the risk of XeTa and FLTV ganging up.

FoS couldn't have lasted against XeTa alone... or FLTV alone, don't kid yourself. Yeah, we had some extremely talented players in FoS, but we lacked the thing we needed most: a war machine. Yes, we could defend better than most of them, but when we needed to attack something, our efforts went south (I'm speaking from my experience as a BC in NoS during R6, so perhaps some of the other FoS alliances were better off than us).

I blame this on two reasons. First, the lack of an extremely active BC team that could spend hours planning attacks during the day, and second, the lack of any real effort to create (not fill) strong and loyal galaxies. During R6, NoS had few truly NoS controlled galaxies. All of what could be considered our top galaxies, aside from Dingo, and Rev's galaxies, were not controlled by a competent nos'er. Instead, most of our top-shelf NoS'ers went to other galaxies either in FLTV (remember the vacation-Virus gal?) or in XeTa (schneckal- top 4 nos planet - casablanca). This caused lots of problems because as an alliance, we were not taking but 3 or 4 galaxies per night. And when you have a 250-300 memberbase, 3 to 4 targets is crap.

Bottom line is we couldn't get our members to attack with us on a regular basis, and that was why we were perceived as weak. It was fun though, and when the race was over, NoS/WP still won.

[Axis_WLF]

I think FLTV was close at one point to working with xeta , I do remember them coming to our server to talk. However we wanted to kill them more than fos.

[Salomo]

Originally posted by AlbinoSquirrel
You contradicted yourself :\

Ah well, perhaps you can't express what i intended to say this way in english.


What I intended to express is that while maddix seemed to base his statement on the assumption that there were only the two possibilities of FoS either fighting xeta together with Furgion, or FoS fighting Xeta without furgion. While his statement is a correct conclusion from his original assumption, his original assumption that there were only these two possibilities is wrong, and hence his conclusion is wrong as well.

Yet by coincidence (as it is not due to the reason he mentioned) his statement that FoS could only survive by letting furgion live is probably actually correct, as any other possibility (e.g. Deus, Xanadu and a third alliance forming a triad and keeping the universe under their controll) would have most likely forced fos to split up due to lack of targets and hence would have also killed fos.

I hope it's a little more clear now what i meant, if not i'll try again once i finished my morning coffee and am properly awake.

[tyriel]

Originally posted by Lord_Olrik
the idea behind the Xeta and FoS cooperation was to work together incluster to keep Fury&friends buzy from the first ticks by not allowing them in xety/fos cluster alliances and attacking asap INCLUSTER.

[note: as a general rule i believe xeta/fos outnumber by a significant ratio fltv gals in most clusters]

I'd concede the not allowing fury and friends into xeta/fos cluster alliances worked.

overall success there id say has little to do with your policy tho. the reason that tactic worked is there were 12 co-operating gals for xeta/fos and 2 fltv.

regarding your attacking in cluster. you significantly outnumbered us. we outstripped the gals in our cluster (at the time we were #1 so thats a fair assessment i'd think). we were happily raping your gals in cluster. until a certain battlegroup landed on us three days straight. the efforts in cluster remained laughable given their potential!

im not going argue against good organisation and co-operation overall. im not going to dispute that you had some excellent galaxies and skilled attack groups.

but your clusters were held on pure numbers and it was an overall victory supported by that. that was your winning tactic even if not intended as such.

[Teh_Necro]

May i also add that it was effectivley XeT by the time furgion was gone, as Silver had an inactive command staff

[Scorpio]

Originally posted by Barrow|Pony
Aye, we were smart ones.

nooooooo

we should have left FoS like I said

[hAl]

Originally posted by CamelToe
FoS couldn't have lasted against XeTa alone... or FLTV alone, don't kid yourself. Yeah, we had some extremely talented players in FoS, but we lacked the thing we needed most: a war machine. Yes, we could defend better than most of them, but when we needed to attack something, our efforts went south .

...we were not taking but 3 or 4 galaxies per night. And when you have a 250-300 memberbase, 3 to 4 targets is crap.

Indeed, not a lot. Having dedicated gals helps a lot. They can take on a hostile gal vitually one on one if are a fraction bigger. If you can control ten dedicated quality gals you should easily cover 6 to 8 targets every night. Probably Xanadu was able to do that best in r6 with each of their 4 wings having several quality gals under control. Ely with lesser number after r5 had also several good gals. Silver lacked the control and organisation that should fit a true war machine and TFD did not have the quality depth that Ely and Xan had.

Probalby FLTV had a much better warmachine in r6 due to their excellent preparation in r5 and easy recruiting of quality players that swapped in r5 to the winning side. They also gained some flak with that victory but overall the block with most war potential was FLTV. FoS and Xeta together though were much to massive in numbers for them and also FLTV were rather slow in first week to see that war was not going to wait for them to start but rather open at na early tick 100 or so with massive attacks on them.

hAl

[Norseman]

Originally posted by Teh_Necro
May i also add that it was effectivley XeT by the time furgion was gone, as Silver had an inactive command staff

Originally posted by CamelToe
we were not taking but 3 or 4 galaxies per night. And when you have a 250-300 memberbase, 3 to 4 targets is crap.

Elysium by that time had 110 members (around 160 when silver merged) Xan 250-300? and TFD no idea, but a large part of that alliance were just dead weight anyway

That imho says something about the quality held by both Xanadu and Elysium in that particulary round. With elysium alone capable of attacking whole clusters

[Aneu]

Originally posted by Teh_Necro
May i also add that it was effectivley XeT by the time furgion was gone, as Silver had an inactive command staff

Posted For Gunn3r
Necro, what an ironic statement, we both know the totally hilarious reason as of
why you demoted me without the approval of anyone, and the reason I didn't try
to keep my position to maybe have a chance to save the alliance is because you
had all techies on your side because they were your muppets from NFU. You my
friend, are the entire reason of Silver's failure, you hardly can blame other
for inactivity when you were inactive yourself, and lacked total organisation.
At least when I got promoted for 2 weeks I saw what was wrong and knew there was
2 options:

a) keep Silver alive but totally fk our allies with it
b) Sacrifice Silver and keep them alive as longer as possible to make sure FLVT
gets beat, our support was greatly needed in r6

Peoples who ran the military like you, that took 1 gal per night and lied to the
members about the point systems and spoke of improvement when there was none
should not be HC. When I took over military we could take a full cluster on our
own(not a too big one, but still), that was 6-7-8 gals per night. You as the
Military HC of Silver and being the Absolutely 'ARSE' that did most of image's
thing for Silver couldn't even ORGANISE an attack on a galaxy with the members.
You were a military HC, a XeTa HC in military and you couldn't organise an
attack. And don't say it's the members fault I have done it very well with the
members repeadtly every days. You are a total **** and my sympathy goes for any
alliance that have the bad luck of working with you, NoS is running to their
doom.
I might have been able to recover Silver if ***** like you were gone, or Yuba
into his newbies day wouldn't have been there but seeing it would have been next
to impossible I went for option B, and I don't regret it. I'm glad after I got
demoted by a ****tard like you I killed what was remaining by bringing the
members worth it into Xylem(Lithyn). I was missing school and doing 22 hours
shift because of inactive ***** like you, so don't come off and blames other for
inactivity. uh uh dude 'I am demoting you because well, I don't know, I can't
tell cuse of personnal reason you must understand me and trust me' -Necro. Die
die die. Nice one dude, promote me when it start going to ****, demote me when
it's total ****, make everyone believe it was my ****.

THX
Gunn3r

[Norseman]

Originally posted by tyriel
[note: as a general rule i believe xeta/fos outnumber by a significant ratio fltv gals in most clusters]

but your clusters were held on pure numbers and it was an overall victory supported by that. that was your winning tactic even if not intended as such.

talking about clusters.. i remember well how we, as in 24:16 were competing with the two GTO gals + the one Gods gal in our cluster at the very start. We held the ground score wise pretty well, untill.. they all one day ceased all activity, as we could see.. (built pods only) and then the next day made some insane giant jumps roid wise.

they farmed like never done before (especially 24:1 - lo Lenin, the superior leading galaxy at that time) in a manner where legitimate farming ofc couldnt have been done.

Point being? 1 on 1, if FLVTT was to farm in the same manners and FOS/XeTa only could fight back by quality only... withouth the numbers on our side, r6 would have been a massacre

(not saying FoS/XeTa didnt farm on occasations, FLVTT just made the most out of it.. extremely even)

[WipeOut]

Originally posted by Aneu
Posted For Gunn3r
Gunn3r mate, next time get someone else to post your personal attacks... It makes them look more serious.

Aneu, you are risking to get your account closed and banned as well.

As I have said before, I hate it when people do their dirty laundry on AD, so either take it to pm, or (in your words) **** off!

[Aneu]

Originally posted by WipeOut
Aneu, you are risking to get your account closed and banned as well.

As I have said before, I hate it when people do their dirty laundry on AD, so either take it to pm, or (in your words) **** off!

Honestly i dont care, Gunn3r = a m8, hence my post. I dont care if anyone else agrees/disagrees with it due to it not being my post.

Aneu

[lokken]

In round 6 FLVT were by far the more organised and superior force. The only way to counter this for FoS was to work with Xeta, who were also superior to FoS in military power. I treated both sides with equal caution: both were capable of stagnating the universe and fortunately both didn't like each other very much. So we hit FLVT first then switched sides to suit our needs. Note that this was a HUGE risk, as beating Xeta was by no means a foregone conclusion. Deus could have undertaken far easier options but this might have resulted in us being seen as a tadge hypocritical.

FLVT's strength actually worked against them initially - they got hit first not only because they were stronger but because we knew they'd be capable of fighting back given an opportunity to take on Xeta in the right conditions.

The relationship between the three parties was never exactly friendly - we were working out of need more than anything, although FLVT were the most pleasant to work with, mainly because we had some friends in FLVT. The greatest achievement came in taking down FLVT itself though, as it required a huge amount of organisation to prevent a large cumbersome group of alliances attacking itself instead of the enemy without exchanging coordinates. Slowly but surely the system did the job, as the more able forces were given the freedom to chip away at FLVT.

Our objective of round 6 as far as i'm concerned was to be as successful as possible while keeping to our intentions and promises. While Deus might have been more successful (though we had members in many top galaxies), we had very little choice in the matter due to our intentions and regardless of this we still helped orchestrate the only ever takedown of the 3 super-alliances in the game in the space of one round. As a result FoS won the game on every possible level, purely because it was more politically flexible than anyone else. I think the principle of political flexibility still holds.

I think that Deus also scored some revenge in round 7 as well due it's ability to disband in round 6, but speculating further into that would only result in flame.

All in all, I think you won't get better than round 6 in terms of quality of play, activity required and playing until the very last ticks.

[storeslem]

Originally posted by Teh_Necro
I'd put it down to command staff staying up untill ungodly hours arranging countless attacks, but ya know we all have opinions

No seriously, it was a great effort, Furgion deserved the kicking they got, and the rest of the universe proved that we were made of the same orginisation that they possed.
-Necro

Organisation? not a chance.
My galaxy was attacked 11 days in a row before we had any significant losses. Even the last few days when Rock and an who knows how many else alliances concentrated all their offence on us, we got the defence we needed from an already "dead" alliance.
We all know you eventually won, but it was because of numbers, numbers, numbers...

[MelAn]

Originally posted by Lord_Olrik

this combined with the very early stricts and the best gals of fury&co only farming (some farmed faster than we could attack them and take the roids) was imho the key to succes r6.

..guess the biggest gal was in my cluster and our best cluster defender

[Barrow|Pony]

Originally posted by storeslem
Organisation? not a chance.
My galaxy was attacked 11 days in a row before we had any significant losses. Even the last few days when Rock and an who knows how many else alliances concentrated all their offence on us, we got the defence we needed from an already "dead" alliance.
We all know you eventually won, but it was because of numbers, numbers, numbers...

I would say that successfully coordinating an attack that spanned eleven days requires some sort of organization.

[Salomo]

Originally posted by storeslem
We all know you eventually won, but it was because of numbers, numbers, numbers...

SL in round 3 was by far the largest alliance numberwise. It never came anywhere close to winning though.

Imo it is impossible to credit the victory to a single fact, it was a mixture of many things. On one hand there were the numbers. Then there was the overall quality maintained despite the numbers. Then there was the abilitiy of command to actually organise these numbers. Along with all that were the political capabilities of some leading alliances, the fact that furgion had made most of the universe it's enemy due to its r5 action, the absolutely lacking security within furgion that allowed us to find out the furgion gals very early (on legion server there were several unsecured channels with very interesting info's in their topics), the failure of furgion to fight the war early on without much time to grow first, and possibly a dozen more reasons. Anyone claiming there was only one reason for FoS victory, only one reason for Furgion and Xeta defeat, is simply ignorant of the facts.

[storeslem]

Originally posted by Barrow|Pony
I would say that successfully coordinating an attack that spanned eleven days requires some sort of organization.

The same would I, but if you read the entire post (it's not that long), you might get my real point. Saying that FoS/Xeta/rest of universe proved they had .equally god organisation as Furgion by defeating them, is utter BS. There, my friend.

edit: If you don't get it, or you just need to comment (as much as I do) I'll clarify even further.

Numbers were the deciding factor, but not the only factor, that Furgion lost.

Furgion had better organisation than the rest, but that don't mean noone else was organisated.

[Maddix]

Originally posted by Salomo
Ah well, perhaps you can't express what i intended to say this way in english.


What I intended to express is that while maddix seemed to base his statement on the assumption that there were only the two possibilities of FoS either fighting xeta together with Furgion, or FoS fighting Xeta without furgion. While his statement is a correct conclusion from his original assumption, his original assumption that there were only these two possibilities is wrong, and hence his conclusion is wrong as well.

Yet by coincidence (as it is not due to the reason he mentioned) his statement that FoS could only survive by letting furgion live is probably actually correct, as any other possibility (e.g. Deus, Xanadu and a third alliance forming a triad and keeping the universe under their controll) would have most likely forced fos to split up due to lack of targets and hence would have also killed fos.

I hope it's a little more clear now what i meant, if not i'll try again once i finished my morning coffee and am properly awake.

Ah much better, thanks

[Patrician]

Originally posted by storeslem

Furgion had better organisation than the rest

Thats not what I heard from some high ranking Furgion figures at the time, chap.

As for claiming it was FoS/XETA and the rest of the universe v the poor little Fury camp, don't be so naive. It's all too easy to write anything that happens in PA off to numbers, its tragic that no credit can ever be given where deserved for fear of losing 'points'.

XETA did the lions share of the work at first, with their bold early attack plans - while Furgion were content to engage in a project of mass agriculture. 'FoS' leant a hand when the superior Furgion numbers (versus XETA) began to prevail. I still hold that 'FoS' was crap, it had non existant organisation because as an entity it didn't require any. The majority of Deus military cooperation was directly with XETA, 'FoS' existed as a conveniant mirage - The individual componant alliances (or the two sub-groups) acted independantly for the majority of the time.

Earlier CamelToe commented that 'FoS' had no 'war machine', it did - and its name was Deus*. (credit to Jester & Aga)

*Controversial yes, however CELL was a non-entity, ND+hirr had no real punch - And NoS & WP were working towards their own agenda, which ultimately gave them a win, but didn't contribute anything to 'FoS'.

Misc > FoS btw. :/

[K0loth]

FOS were quite a strong block imo but just were not as well primed and efficient as Xeta. Elysium HC were already beginning plans for round 6 pretty much after Fury attacked Ely in round 5. Elysium had low numbers of members after that and so members were organised into galaxies much better as we needed to be as efficient as possible controlling most of our galaxies to make the smaller memberbase more effective.
I'm speaking from an Ely standpoint here because I was not involved in the internal workings of other alliances at the time.

[Azaghal]

TFD had ~300 members during[edit]let me rephrase: start of[/edit] round 6. It was also TFD who first cooperated with Xanadu end r5, from which XeTa was forged.

Anyway, XeTa had as prime intention not to prevent stagnation, but to smash furigon. Even while I hear XeTa's say "we declared war on Deus to prevent stagnation", XeTa command was just pissed off by Deus, and didn't expect (entire) FoS to choose side of Deus.

[storeslem]

Originally posted by Patrician
Thats not what I heard from some high ranking Furgion figures at the time, chap.

As for claiming it was FoS/XETA and the rest of the universe v the poor little Fury camp, don't be so naive. It's all too easy to write anything that happens in PA off to numbers, its tragic that no credit can ever be given where deserved for fear of losing 'points'.

You are wrong infact. You think it was only XeTa and FoS vs Furgion, but as soon as FLTV were starting to loose, Rock and most of those other semi-crap alliances also started attacking Furgion. With most of Furgion dead, all those alliances constituted the greater part of the universe score. Definately of those actually taking part in the war. As in the magisters case, even allied "fence-sitting" galaxies betrayed and attacked us.

As for organisation everyones entitled to an opinion, but I know for sure Furgion was indeed very well organised, at least in the beginning.

Oh, and I'm not really impressed by the xeta/fos intell; most of the universe believed syn_sid was in my gal most of round 6