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13 May 2013, 17:59
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#51
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: Donations
Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
I assume the galaxy your referring to is 3:3 so there were planets this round in there from fang/ct/nd believe who were on the other side to your good self and yet they received little or no incomings during the block wars , part of that may be because the allys represented in that gal believe they can't hit the gal because their own members ingal will reveal lt's etc or the alliance hc accept the gal is not roidable and accept these players into their tag because they guarentee the ally 7-10 mil score with little or no effort .
at the end of the day they have set their gal up with competant planet managers multiple allys and a way to maximise the ingame features for their own benefit , they did not exploit a bug or cheat they just did something that anyone else could do but chose not too and because they are good at it you want it capped/removed ?
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No one is disputing wether they are good at it or not, i don't believe anyone still talking in this thread is accusing them of cheating. What people are trying to say is that in general (because it is not just this galaxy that do it) these areas need to have a cap because they are a basic game function that is being used by certain people to AVOID playing the game for as long as possible, to then suddenly dump themselves way up the rankings with planets that are extremely hard to roid. This game is awkward enough to attacking in now anyway, with every alliance intel leaking its attacks 5 mins after TP, yes mid teir galaxies still lose roids but even a full on gal raid from a t3 alliance will barely cap 2 waves worth of roids on a t10 galaxy anymore. I know this cause when my galaxy was 8th this round we 3 consecutive nights of incommings from FAnG, CT and then ND, combined over 3 nights they took 4 waves of roids, and crashed 4 full fleets doing it. My galaxy was good at defending this round but the galaxies higher up than mine, the likes of Shaz's gal or carDi's gal and even Wishmaster's gal are better at it. So alliance HC's dont put them up outside of war, because need to keep lands coming and roids flowing and peoples morale up outweighs going after a galaxy that you might possibly land 1 wave on if you are lucky, normally you land none, or the random guy from HR gets battered, but he is the weakest planet in that galaxy.
So when the latestarter signs up to one of these 3-4 gals he automatically know that no alliance is going to target him, its block wars so half the universe is on his side anyway, and chances are he has a BC or HC from the other block in this galaxy meaning chances are he wont be put up, oh and add to that that he has stuck his first 50 mill of resources into the galaxy fund meaning that he is below the bash limit of 90% of the players in the t5 alliances anyway. So he can happily pick out and 3 fleet attack all the dead planets for a week or 2, scooping up easy roids and gaining little to no Xp for it, making sure he is staying small, now obviously he is a Corp planet so his income on those roids he bashed will be higher, and he didnt need to do gate research cos he is a latestarter with no ships, so cores first for him. So its now tick 600 and he has nearly 2k roids and 50 mill in the galaxy fund, maybe more in the alliance fund and he is still below the bash limit of 90% of the players in the t6 alliance, in a galaxy that doesnt get incommings (only sporadic ones from alliances not in the block which is whole galaxy can defend against, mainly small incomming fleets too, mostly from unallied n00bs, which means salvage for his galaxy mates YAY!!) oh and cos he has all his cores, and is pummeling FC's and is Corp he is making lots and lots a tick, maybe even more than people with the same roids as him who have played the whole round and not 250 ticks of it, the ones who can actually be attacked because they arent avoiding playing. So here he is, mr latestarter and its tick 700, he has managed to save up 100 mill resources because of his insane income and he still has that 50 mill in the fund... so then his galaxy tell him where they are weak to incs and then he prods, building exactly the ships they need to make they galaxy even more immune and viola he is now t50 with a roid count that is up there with the top players, little chance of incs now cos he fleet is tailor made and in a galaxy that is for the best part unroidable by the universe. Congrats you are a pro pa player you avoided playing the basic concept of the game purely for rank and you bashed new players out the game for cheap roids, you are better than the rest of us that actually attacked planets of equal or bigger size for 1100 ticks, who got up and defended when asked for 1100 ticks, no you are better cos you had a fleet for 300 ticks and you were never going to get touched. PA at its best!!
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13 May 2013, 18:16
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#52
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General (Adjective Army)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
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Re: Donations
I hate to say this but....... nicely put, Kaiba.
(Even if it did turn into a bit of a rant there).
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
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13 May 2013, 18:24
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#53
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Fightin-irish for life
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
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Re: Donations
Christ you really have a hard on for anyone that doesn't play your way
__________________
Ascendancy, now with added Irish
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it."
-Rommel
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13 May 2013, 18:27
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#54
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: Donations
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
I hate to say this but....... nicely put, Kaiba.
(Even if it did turn into a bit of a rant there).
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Yeah sorry it got a little ranty cos it gripes me. As i have been saying to Shev on iRC i dont have an issue with the players using these tactics, i dont have an issue with a lot of the tactics (i mean fair play if you wanna covop for a whole round, that requires constant activity) i have issues with people who do these things to avoid playing the game, why should all your alliance mates put in 7 weeks of hard graft getting up at god knows what hour to save yours and others asses so that you can swan in at tick 700 and take all the glory and rank getting escorts in the days!!
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13 May 2013, 18:31
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#55
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: Donations
Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
Christ you really have a hard on for anyone that doesn't play your way
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It has nothing to do with 'my way' it has everything to do with the fact the game is 7 weeks long and the basic concept is to attack and defend to gain roids and build ships. It is not 4 weeks long where you as the latestarter spend 2 of those in artifical protection mode racking in the resources to suddenly rank jump above 80% of the playerbase in a day and coast home to a t20 finish, maybe higher if your alliance thinks it can get you a t3 finish..
How about we ALL latestart next round, its obviously the best way to play... oh hang on we cant, because for you guys to play this way, a lot of us have to have actually played the game as it was intended for 2 weeks before you even even start and for another 2 before you actually join in.
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13 May 2013, 18:31
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#56
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Fightin-irish for life
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
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Re: Donations
dont play in the same ally as them then ,
WHILE YOU WERE PLAYING WE WERE SLEEPING etc etc
__________________
Ascendancy, now with added Irish
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it."
-Rommel
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13 May 2013, 18:37
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#57
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: Donations
Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
dont play in the same ally as them then ,
WHILE YOU WERE PLAYING WE WERE SLEEPING etc etc
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They come from all alliances though, every alliance in the top 5-6 has 2-3 players who play this way, you cant get away from them...
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13 May 2013, 18:41
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#58
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Donations
So it's prettty balanced then?
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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13 May 2013, 18:52
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#59
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: Donations
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
So it's prettty balanced then?
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YAY Asc Troll Squad unite!!!
No its rife, its not balanced. I never accused a specific alliance or galaxy of doing this more than others, i said quite clearly time and time again its the player who decides that he will avoid playing the game for 75% of the round just for a rank that should be 'nerfed'.
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13 May 2013, 19:04
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#60
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Fightin-irish for life
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
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Re: Donations
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
YAY Asc Troll Squad unite!!!
No its rife, its not balanced. I never accused a specific alliance or galaxy of doing this more than others, i said quite clearly time and time again its the player who decides that he will avoid playing the game for 75% of the round just for a rank that should be 'nerfed'.
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I believe your confusing us with these
http://www.clawofdarkness.com/pawiki...cy_Troll_Squad
so in summary your anti anyone who plays different to you
the universe doesn't revolve around how you choose to play the game , different doesn't mean its wrong
__________________
Ascendancy, now with added Irish
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it."
-Rommel
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13 May 2013, 19:09
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#61
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
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Re: Donations
how is that different playing in a tag with leaders who needs to nap 50% of the universe for 1177 ticks?
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13 May 2013, 20:27
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#62
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: Donations
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
It has nothing to do with 'my way' it has everything to do with the fact the game is 7 weeks long and the basic concept is to attack and defend to gain roids and build ships. It is not 4 weeks long where you as the latestarter spend 2 of those in artifical protection mode racking in the resources to suddenly rank jump above 80% of the playerbase in a day and coast home to a t20 finish, maybe higher if your alliance thinks it can get you a t3 finish..
How about we ALL latestart next round, its obviously the best way to play... oh hang on we cant, because for you guys to play this way, a lot of us have to have actually played the game as it was intended for 2 weeks before you even even start and for another 2 before you actually join in.
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For a latestarter to play the way he plays (the latestarter strategy) he needs a galaxy that played from the start to keep him save. Motti this round proved you don't even need an alliance necessarily. He doesn't need anyone else who played from the start for anything.
I think it is all down to the fact that you/your galaxy has continuously failed to play all 7 weeks of the round that you have such a hardon for ppl who (for whatever reason) decide to play less ticks. Also the latestarter strategy doesn't at all rely on latestarter spots, but can be played by anyone, at any time in the round. It is just less effective the earlier in the round you play it.
And considering wishmaster didn't latestart this round it obviously isn't the best way to play the round either.
Going back to your earlier rant (i'm sorry but i can't call it anything else): Latestarters generally don't require much ally def prior to being able to provide it too (considering they are playing in a top 10 defending galaxy), so no they don't ask you to provide def for 1000 ticks. The rest of your rant seems based too much on emotions so i cba to compose a rational reply on it.
****ing point of a strategy game is to come up with a strategy that works, not to see who's the best at a single strategy...
__________________
don't be an arse, join [TiT]
In the absence of the good old TiT alliance, look me up in VGN
Last edited by Influence; 13 May 2013 at 20:50.
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13 May 2013, 20:43
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#63
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 27
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Re: Donations
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
No one is disputing wether they are good at it or not, i don't believe anyone still talking in this thread is accusing them of cheating. What people are trying to say is that in general (because it is not just this galaxy that do it) these areas need to have a cap because they are a basic game function that is being used by certain people to AVOID playing the game for as long as possible, to then suddenly dump themselves way up the rankings with planets that are extremely hard to roid.
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Try cov-opping yourself and see if you are still enjoying it or can be bother to carry on doing it after 400 ticks in
It's easier to play normally than do what shaz did... Hats of to you shaz my hunni
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13 May 2013, 20:52
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#64
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: Donations
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dav
Try cov-opping yourself and see if you are still enjoying it or can be bother to carry on doing it after 400 ticks in
It's easier to play normally than do what shaz did... Hats of to you shaz my hunni
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The act of covoping isnt the issue, i think i said on irc or further up on here that we all appreciate to covop like shaz did this round takes constant activity.
Its the fact that its most effective when you avoid having any score and the fact that by nature bank hacking preys on the new and the inactive. Plus as the most effective covop bank hacking is far too down the tech tree currently. Plus it can be researched and used with little to no score gain for doing so (i know you get XP but its minimal like scanning).
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13 May 2013, 21:09
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#65
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Donations
The amount of resources you can bankhack depends on your value, not your score.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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13 May 2013, 21:11
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#66
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 113
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Re: Donations
May I refer everyone to RexDrax' post as that pretty much sums it up in a fairly neutral way.
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13 May 2013, 21:21
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#67
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: Donations
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
The act of covoping isnt the issue, i think i said on irc or further up on here that we all appreciate to covop like shaz did this round takes constant activity.
Its the fact that its most effective when you avoid having any score and the fact that by nature bank hacking preys on the new and the inactive. Plus as the most effective covop bank hacking is far too down the tech tree currently. Plus it can be researched and used with little to no score gain for doing so (i know you get XP but its minimal like scanning).
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Actually Cov-opping is the cheapest way to get XP, far cheaper than scanning. And researching cov-ops around PT500 can give any planet ~600-800k score through it. (for the proper calculations behind this you should attempt to contact killeah).
__________________
don't be an arse, join [TiT]
In the absence of the good old TiT alliance, look me up in VGN
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13 May 2013, 21:41
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#68
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Fightin-irish for life
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
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Re: Donations
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
The act of covoping isnt the issue, i think i said on irc or further up on here that we all appreciate to covop like shaz did this round takes constant activity.
Its the fact that its most effective when you avoid having any score and the fact that by nature bank hacking preys on the new and the inactive. Plus as the most effective covop bank hacking is far too down the tech tree currently. Plus it can be researched and used with little to no score gain for doing so (i know you get XP but its minimal like scanning).
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cov op is boring as f**k
but if you don't have a clue how to maximise resource stealing and xp from cov ops you shouldn't comment as you just look stupid
__________________
Ascendancy, now with added Irish
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it."
-Rommel
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13 May 2013, 22:26
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#69
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: Donations
Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
cov op is boring as f**k
but if you don't have a clue how to maximise resource stealing and xp from cov ops you shouldn't comment as you just look stupid
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Well according to everything i was aware the smaller you are score wise (which shock horror you dont see any planets with more value than score!!) the more effective your covop will be, as the larger your value/score then your covop will be less efficent against a smaller planet.. ergo. to covop inactives/noobs you have to stay as small as possible. Hence why all these covopwhores have no roids/no ships/no value/no score whilst they are doing it.
No one has said covoping was fun, no one has said that the act of covoping is cheating, in fact we have gone as far as to commend shaz for her dedication to her task this round with it. BUT that does not take away from the fact that yet again it is another tactic that means you dont play the basic part of the game which is attacking and defending and that you end up with a planet which is lethal as hell with bank hack making more a tick for you than atleast 60% of planets in the universe are making per tick with no come back what so ever to your own planet, which if done for personal use is again bashing new players/inactive planets and hiding behind the basher coding because no roids for you makes it easier for you make yourself immune to covops so no one can bank hack it from you. Now yes planets are now bank hacking purely to feed their galaxy but some do it for personal gain, i appreciate that you are having to put more effort into the game to covop continously but you are still hiding behind coded bash limits to prevent anyone doing anything to you
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13 May 2013, 22:59
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#70
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Fightin-irish for life
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
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Re: Donations
ok ill capitalise so it might actually sink in
THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO PLAY THE GAME , NOT EVERYONE HAS TO PLAY THE SAME AS YOU AND JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE DOING IT DIFFERENTLY TO YOU DOES NOT MAKE IT WRONG OR MEAN IT HAS TO BE CAPPED/REDUCED OR CHANGED IN ANY WAY
what I do remember from a round I tried playing cov op was if I hit inactive planets the resources stolen were minimal
__________________
Ascendancy, now with added Irish
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it."
-Rommel
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13 May 2013, 23:03
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#71
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General (Adjective Army)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
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Re: Donations
Just because they are doing it differently doesn't make it right either - and "shouting" doesn't make your point any more effectively.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
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13 May 2013, 23:57
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#72
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Just Awesome
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 165
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Re: Donations
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
Well according to everything i was aware the smaller you are score wise (which shock horror you dont see any planets with more value than score!!) the more effective your covop will be, as the larger your value/score then your covop will be less efficent against a smaller planet.. ergo. to covop inactives/noobs you have to stay as small as possible. Hence why all these covopwhores have no roids/no ships/no value/no score whilst they are doing it.
No one has said covoping was fun, no one has said that the act of covoping is cheating, in fact we have gone as far as to commend shaz for her dedication to her task this round with it. BUT that does not take away from the fact that yet again it is another tactic that means you dont play the basic part of the game which is attacking and defending and that you end up with a planet which is lethal as hell with bank hack making more a tick for you than atleast 60% of planets in the universe are making per tick with no come back what so ever to your own planet, which if done for personal use is again bashing new players/inactive planets and hiding behind the basher coding because no roids for you makes it easier for you make yourself immune to covops so no one can bank hack it from you. Now yes planets are now bank hacking purely to feed their galaxy but some do it for personal gain, i appreciate that you are having to put more effort into the game to covop continously but you are still hiding behind coded bash limits to prevent anyone doing anything to you
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Solution to bank hack is simply increasing alert through sec centre / guards / population.
Another problem there already is a fix for...
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14 May 2013, 05:42
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#73
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: Donations
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motti
Solution to bank hack is simply increasing alert through sec centre / guards / population.
Another problem there already is a fix for...
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Yes correct for those of us that actually log in more than 5 times a week that is the solution but then again that isnt who covopers target is it, anyone who is actually 'playing' the game isnt in their crosshairs, they look for those planets that barely log in, the guy who got nostaglic and signed up and then got bored and remember how crap PA is, that is their target, a planet that has largish stockpiles and no security who doesnt log in. These planets are magically the target for the late starters to bash once they sign up to.
So back to this the to and fro myself and gzambo are partaking in. The playerbase obviously has very different thoughts and what constitutes playing because a lot of people are agreeing with my opinion and some are agreeing with you. Once again so maybe it makes more sense, i have no issues with people who are creative in how they play the game, i always like it when someone comes up with something cool to get an advantage but that doesnt always mean that advantage is fair, but when you constitute 'playing' to sitting hidden behind a coded bash limit and artifically keeping your score down with genuinely no penalty to yourself, in fact it actually benefits you because you can then pick the bones from n00b/inactive accounts with no retaliation from the community then that is avoiding taking part and exploiting the coding to do so. Not to mention disheartening/driving away some possible new players as you rape their planet dry... all for a rank, most likely not even one that will get you heard at EoRC....
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