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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 00:13   #1
Achilles
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An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

To whom it may concern,

On PT272 I was closed by Remy, an administrator of Planetarion. As we all know, closure is the highest form of censure, reserved for planets that are cheating and for whom no other punishment is deemed applicable. As I'm sure you can imagine I was very distressed at what I felt was an outrageous accusation and slur on my character. I immediately spoke to Fiery as I feared Remy could be biased against me as a result of clashes on the forums. She promised me she would look into it and went offline.

As these things go she lost her internet for the next two days and so by the time I actually got to speak to her again today I had been closed for over 3 days. Upon speaking to Fiery I was told that I had been closed because 90% of my scans were done for the benefit of Ascendancy. I knew this was absolute bullshit and so asked for and was given a list, annoted by Remy with supposed violations.

I immediately noticed one of what would turn out to be many "creative interpretations." Only 78 of 132 scans had been marked by him as being for the benefit of Asc. This is 59% not 90% as I was originally told.

I then spent the next number of hours going through my logs attempting to match scans to requests, no easy process. I discovered the following:

1) He had marked pretty much every planet scan I had done, for the purpose of resource hacking, as being for the benefit of Ascendancy. I would like to know exactly what "evidence" he has for marking these scans so.

2) He had marked many surface scans I had done, for the purpose of determining security centres, for the purpose of resource hacking, as being of benefit for Ascendancy or Descendancy. I would like to know what "evidence" he has for this, especially for those marked for Descendancy? I'll be pretty interested in that one.

3) When I did 2 jgp scans for someone called Gwarth (I have no idea who this dude is) when he was attacking Ascendancy they were put down as some kind of defensive jgp or something. I don't understand this. It strikes me as nothing short of the most retarded conclusion he could possibly have jumped to.

4) On one occasion he assigned a jgp scan done for Tomkat of Descendany correctly. However 1 tick earlier he had attributed this scan to Ascendancy. How can this possibly happen? Which is it and why is it inconsistent? Again what evidence was used here?

I honestly could go on, it definitely doesn't stop there. I have uploaded the details for any who are interested enough to investigate further. The final tally of Ascendancy scans was 40 of 132. Which is 30% or one third of the original claim.

Now, on to the point of this post. I would like to propose that unless serious restructuring is done to the EULA regarding the support planet rule and a review is carried out into the integrity, impartiality and competence of the Multihunter Team players would refuse to sign up a paid account for next round. Transcendancy will most definitely be playing this way and I will be actively meeting with and encouraging other alliance HC's within the intervening period.

I would hope that as many of you as possible would also express your support (or lack of, if you feel so inclined) publicly in this thread.

Last edited by Achilles; 9 Jul 2007 at 01:05.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 00:16   #2
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Sign.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 00:20   #3
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Praaaaaaaise the lord!
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 00:21   #4
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

seems like a good reason to take a round off as all of this does need to be fixed.
/sign
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 00:21   #5
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

achilles for president
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 00:22   #6
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Remy is just objectively terrible. I'm not entirely certain who's in charge of the MH team (Fiery?) but there should be some investigations into it (without meaning to sound too internet-serious).

I mean does he feel he should have a quota of closures per round, to prove he's doing his job?

I'm looking forward to Rem'ys reply to this thread, although I expect he'll just hide and hope it goes away.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 00:22   #7
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

PS - signed
PPS thanks for that jgp duder! <3
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 00:23   #8
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

i don't think anyone doubts remy's insistent attempts to make himself look like an absolute buffoon, but this whole "anti-ascendancy" line of marking is no surprise considering all the abuse the poor retard gets in terms of reported mail..

signed by the way.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 00:25   #9
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

It may be true about the deceiptive jgp, I mean vgn are known for doing all kinds of strange things (just look up Benneh's whine post) :d

All i have to say about this whole Achi incident: MH's, ur ridiculous ... trying to justify your actions with that, omg ur stupid...

PS: Thx for the scans, achi and dec (and the others)
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 00:26   #10
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Signed.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 00:27   #11
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

kinda intresting that he spend that amount of time to chase scanners with an uncertein rule then he could spend some time to check up cheates instead but hey, it seems its ok to screw over asc ppl aparently

remy get a life
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 00:28   #12
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Sure, why not. Signed.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 00:28   #13
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

My personal favourite is the one marked:

Scan for asc/desc
Which was it? These are two seperate alliances for the purposes of counting who a particualar scanner is scanning for.

Is it really unclear that they're not? They are different tags. It's like scanning, in the same proportions, for Ascendancy, Vision and Rock (purely as a for example). Does it really make a difference that some members from all three alliances happen to be on the same channel?

I don't think it should, but it seems that it does.

PS: And sign ofc

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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 00:34   #14
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

for me they are picking on you because a lot of other scanners are scanning for the uni too all i see was u doing the same as them

good luck with getting reopened.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 00:34   #15
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Won't be returning.

- Signed
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 00:34   #16
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

The support planet rule is so vague that you could close a fair number of scanners with it, i know of two who are not in Ascendancy that could be closed on similar grounds (not that i would ever mention names). Coupled with this, it seems certain that there is unfair action being carried out by some people on the MH team aimed at a particular group of individuals.

Signed, i certainly will not be paying for a game where i can be closed by a retard with a chip on his shoulder over a rule with no concrete definition.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 00:38   #17
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

u got my full support.

i have said it on many occasions and i will say it once again: these rules are full of unclear definitions and grey areas and therefor the players are completely unprotected from the bias of the MHs. this has been the same for 9 rounds now (can't remember much before r13) and it is overdue that the playerbase does something against that.

i strongly encourage EVERYONE not to buy a credit for the next 2-3 rounds as it is the only way to show what we think of the current administration of the game. (well, we can express our opinions here on the forums, but all that achieves is some half assed replies from the PA-Crew)

and to any PA-Crew member who thinks that this would kill PA even faster: Screw you, nothing can kill PA faster than your damn incompetence and ignorance.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 00:46   #18
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Not signed.

If remy had checked covops besides just the scans it would prolly just had been even clearer.

I dont understand why dec, mz and coltaine hasnt been closed down yet though, the evidence is beyond any doubt.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 00:49   #19
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
Not signed.

If remy had checked covops besides just the scans it would prolly just had been even clearer.

I dont understand why dec, mz and coltaine hasnt been closed down yet though, the evidence is beyond any doubt.
why am i not suprised you posted that
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 00:50   #20
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Ofc i sign, Remy is biased as ****
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 00:53   #21
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by robban1
why am i not suprised you posted that
We hit Dedin for one (happend alot of other times too) and all the way inc dec, mz, coltaine and other "descendancies" repeatedly covopped us untill land.

But sure keep on doing the Bart Simpson ascendancy....

"I Didnt do it"
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 00:55   #22
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

how come they have done hacoc then on ppl that are tagged asc red?
oh, i forgot, *signed*
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 00:59   #23
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
We hit Dedin for one (happend alot of other times too) and all the way inc dec, mz, coltaine and other "descendancies" repeatedly covopped us untill land.

But sure keep on doing the Bart Simpson ascendancy....

"I Didnt do it"
covop isnt in any way assosiated with the support rule m8
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 01:00   #24
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

*forged sig*

haha like this thread will accomplish anything

entertaining tho
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 01:00   #25
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Don't reply to Red, he'll just drag the thread to oblivion.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 01:02   #26
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

I went through that list and couldn't help but notice that quite a few of the scans that Achi did for me are marked "for Ascendancy" (he only put my name down on one or two but there are more).

Appocomaster attacks me, Achi gives me a scan on him. How do you fit Ascendancy into this? I have never been a member of Ascendancy and never will be, why are my scans suddenly being tagged "for ascendancy"? I wasn't even in Transcendancy when I got most of those scans :/


Remy is a terrible multihunter, he spends more time looking for things like this and "inappropriate" planet names than looking for people with multis.
I was forced to change my planet/ruler names from "size of annies breasts" because apparently the word "breasts" is inappropriate for the younger players of the game. Guess what dude, last time I checked; I was the youngest player in this game.
He then refused to let me change it to "size of chicken breasts" and only settled for "incompetence of remy" after I threatened to complain to jolt about him not allowing me to use a perfectly legitimate name (if you see anything wrong with "size of chicken breasts", end your life now.)
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 01:07   #27
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

This isn't the first MH blunder ive seen recently.

Ive even heard and have logs of the MH closing and deleting a planet soley on the basis that he did not pm Fiery in time on IRC. They said that if he had explained himself sooner (and we were talking hours here- not days), he would have been able to play on.

This list is an utter joke.

YOU have paying customers to think of. This may be a free round, but to allow a retard to scribble down speculative notes with little evidence other than the unintelligent workings of his own mind, renders gathering evidence against cheating/support planets totally useless.

I may be severly out of the loop here, but I thought Achilles and co in #transcendency were offering free scans for everyone. They might scan for different alliances, but surely, in a round where you want to promote the planetarion game and community, offering a free round where planets can try the game for nothing, not letting them use this service to their advantage is absolutley absurd. And at this point, I consider Remy to have played a fateful practical joke. Surely this started out as a humorous jape.

To give anyone scans, to help the community grow by allowing newbies to see if their ships are about to perish, is admirable and FAR beyond the call of community-duty.

Ive seen loads of newbies use it.



/signed.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 01:10   #28
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
We hit Dedin for one (happend alot of other times too) and all the way inc dec, mz, coltaine and other "descendancies" repeatedly covopped us untill land.

But sure keep on doing the Bart Simpson ascendancy....

"I Didnt do it"
Are you confusing which alliances youre talking about?

And it wasn't "I Didnt do it",

it was:

"It was like that when I got there."
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 02:14   #29
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Yeah Remy closed me last round, twice.

Pfft.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 02:33   #30
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Why are paying* customers being closed so easily? (* - Yes I realise that this a free round, but we pay nearly any other round)

I'm not going to comment on if this was a genuine violation of the rules, but I'm going to question on if closure was suitable for this alleged violation. This is just one person with one account who thought he scanning within the rules of the game. The violation wasn't blatant farming or multiple accounts, which are far more serious and have worse consequences.

Was closure really necessary?
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 03:53   #31
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

It may be heresy but I do believe, from reading some of the posts on the various PA related forums, that some of the multi hunters are unable to find their bottoms with both hands.....
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 04:02   #32
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Damn Remy is n00ber than me
how did he/she(uncertain) become a MH =P
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 07:20   #33
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Normally, we cannot comment on cases, but since you chose to throw it all o the forum, i guess i can comment here too, even though it will be short.

Your analysis is wrong, you are free to speak to ME about it, so i can explain it a bit more in detail. You have no access to the logs like i do, so you might not even be ABLE to see WHY such scans are related to asc.

Of course a few of those annotations will be wrong, or possibly a bit far fetched (if you see him scanning a whole galaxy, that is attacked by asc a few ticks later, then one combo of tech/unit scan on one of the not attacked planets in that gal at the same time he scanned the rest, is prbably a scanned planet not attacked because no1 liked it ), but on the other had, some i will have annotated as non Asc, when they indeed WERE asc related.

2 small things: nowhere did we express the % of scans you need to do before being seen as a support planet, so maybe 50% was enough, or 30%, or 80%? Did you care to ask?

Im not an administrator, i am a multihunter.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 07:30   #34
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

not a stab at you Remy, and not an attempt to derail the thread, but i'm gonna say it cause other people might be afraid to.

after reading that post ^^ my only thought was, "multihunter" ? Achi got closed for having more than one account?

yeah, i know its not funny, but its the first thing that game to mind between reading all the jibberish thats been about lately. /goes to his corner.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 07:55   #35
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Achi didnt get closed for having more then one account
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 08:05   #36
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
I immediately spoke to Fiery as I feared Remy could be biased against me as a result of clashes on the forums.
Did we ever clash? Maybe you remember, i dont.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
I immediately noticed one of what would turn out to be many "creative interpretations." Only 78 of 132 scans had been marked by him as being for the benefit of Asc. This is 59% not 90% as I was originally told.
UPon recounting the scans i checked, i come to 43 scans out of 132 not directly related to asc, which is 67% done for asc. Some of those 43 i could link to descendancy, some i couldnt really track at all, or the planet in quesiotn was deleted or had moved to unfindable places. Some i could have looked deeper into, and i probably will find some link on some of those.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 08:09   #37
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy
2 small things: nowhere did we express the % of scans you need to do before being seen as a support planet, so maybe 50% was enough, or 30%, or 80%? Did you care to ask?
Can you not see the problem with this?

You fully admit to closing someone based on a rule which is not publicly available, then blame the person you closed for not knowing the rule.

Please, before you do any further damage to the reputation of the MHs and the game, stop and consider how this must appear to the players.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 08:11   #38
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
and only settled for "incompetence of remy" after I threatened to complain to jolt about him not allowing me to use a perfectly legitimate name
I never settled for that because you threatened me which Jolt, you couldnt threaten an ant when hovering over it with your foot.

I allowed it because it wasnt against the rules, and found it quite funny.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 08:20   #39
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Yet another thread to elaborate the ridiculousness of the multihunter team during the recent rounds. Since I returned after the break for round 17, there's been little if any sense to the whole area. A chief multihunter after another has failed to create a sensible group, rinse and repeat.



It's probably blatantly obvious, but. Signed.




Quote:
Originally Posted by robban1
covop isnt in any way assosiated with the support rule m8
Wrong. There are very little things that cannot be associated to the support planet rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EULA
(f) Support Accounts are accounts which are dedicated to undertaking specific and repeated actions which result in an unfair benefit for a planet/organisation, where an organisation is defined as an alliance or galaxy.
Technically, that can be defined as anything you do ingame that is dedicated, repeated, specific, and results in what is deemed unfair benefit. Covert operations will fit here quite as well as fleet missions, especially given the strength of covert operations this round.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 09:14   #40
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

I'd like to remind Remy of his signature:

R10.5 - R18.0: []LCH[] HC Scanner!
____________________________________________
R19.0 - : Multihunter



In those 7 or so rounds as a scanner, are you telling us that you SOLELY did scans for your alliance only, and never for friends?



Also I don't know who made the point above (Kila?) but yes- you guys need to do your jobs instead of fiddling round with naughty planet names/gal banners and ridiculous stuff like this, when people are breaking the rules PROPERLY with multi accounts and farms. You're the internet equivalent of the police stopping people for speeding when another driver careers on by after robbing a bank.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 09:36   #41
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

There is no point in upholding an alliance limit when you allow people to go around it. I think the alliance limit is a feature worth defending. If that means closing people that think they found a loop-hole then so be it.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 09:38   #42
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Signed, for obvious reasons.

@remy: I know Rob pointed it out already, but why don't you go into public with Achilles' case, or at least give Achilles the chance to put all the evidence you have against him into public? Surely it is Achilles own decision who should be able to read the evidence, and it seems he wants that public. Also, it would make it clear to all players on which grounds we can get closed.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 09:42   #43
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbie2
There is no point in upholding an alliance limit when you allow people to go around it. I think the alliance limit is a feature worth defending. If that means closing people that think they found a loop-hole then so be it.
That's fine, but tell people that you're going to do this before you start doing it!

The alliance limit is not directly mentioned at all in the EULA or game rules. The rules, as I am getting tired of repeating, merely refer to 'unfair actions' with no definition of what these are. The past consensus was that scanning was not considered to be an unfair action. This was used by reasonable people to decide on their strategy; had the rules been clearer, people would not have scanned in this way.

Remy himself has admitted that he has closed people based on rules that they have not been told about. Whether this is fair or not is a completely separate issue from the question of whether we should have a clear rule against scanning for people in a different tag. The fact is that we didn't have such a clear rule. The support planet rule is so vague that it requires interpretation, and the original interpretation of the rule was that it did not apply to scanning. This changed, nobody was told, and now we have a mess which nobody is admitting to.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 09:53   #44
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
That's fine, but tell people that you're going to do this before you start doing it!

The alliance limit is not directly mentioned at all in the EULA or game rules. The rules, as I am getting tired of repeating, merely refer to 'unfair actions' with no definition of what these are.
I think you have a somewhat valid point there. The problem is that people try to find new loopholes all the time. Asc/Desc created a new gray area between support alliances and old-fashioned alliances. You cannot define every unfair action when people are so creative in thinking of new unfair actions. It would be better if the Eula specified that the support rule would be strictly maintained in cases where people try to find a way around the alliance limit.
Maybe it would be better to reopen them after a while and let them off with a warning.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 10:10   #45
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Descendancy should not have been OKed by fiery in the first place, that was not a clever move.

After that they should have been disbanded asap it was known how the operated, even if unintentional they defacto worked as 1 alliance with Asc due to thier friendships and beeing in the same alliance for rounds.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 10:31   #46
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Red will you seriously shut the **** up, you are an absolute mong
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 10:43   #47
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
Descendancy should not have been OKed by fiery in the first place, that was not a clever move.

After that they should have been disbanded asap it was known how the operated, even if unintentional they defacto worked as 1 alliance with Asc due to thier friendships and beeing in the same alliance for rounds.
Last time i checked the rules there wasn't a rule saying:
Thou shalt not block with another alliance
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 10:51   #48
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Buts lots of other alliances work with each other and in fact may end up de facto working as one alliance. Why would those cases be allowed and these ones prohibited?
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 11:03   #49
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Buts lots of other alliances work with each other and in fact may end up de facto working as one alliance. Why would those cases be allowed and these ones prohibited?
yeah, and who cares if jenova has like 100 members - ascendancy had like 80 and made it obvious where they were, and they get closed. funny.
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Unread 9 Jul 2007, 11:04   #50
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Buts lots of other alliances work with each other and in fact may end up de facto working as one alliance. Why would those cases be allowed and these ones prohibited?
Clearly 2-3 Multihunters cant monitor all alliances in the game JBG - so the obvious step is to track down the most obvious offenders

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