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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 05:22   #1
Ultimate Newbie
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The Round of the Xans?

Having not a planet at all this round, and not watching the progress on the game at all, just then i had a quick look at the stats from Sandman's regarding Races.

Frankly, i was shocked to see that Xandathrii has the greatest average score, the greatest average roids, and almost equal top average value untill right at the end of the round when Ziks obviously start picking up large amounts of fleet.

So, some points for discussion; are Xans very well represented at the very top of the game or is it just that the average is high? (cf Terran where the average is artificially low as it is the default race; at the time of writing Terran had 6 of the top 10 planets), is the success of Xan this round due to ship stats? or just aggressive play? have Xans been willing to call people's bluff more this round and actually land more (and thus more XP), or are the changes to scans mean that Xans attack more successfully and/or are harder to attack?

What are the reasons behind the apparent success of the race this round?
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 06:19   #2
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

I dont see how you can take that data and draw any conclusions about race performance. The only conclusion id draw is that casual players and scanners tend to choose terran, thus lowering terran averages.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 06:24   #3
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

Well, there has been a significant difference between Xans and all other races in terms of average roids all round, and a noticeable shift between xans and the others in average score as well, and there seems to be rough Xan/Zik equality in terms of Value all round as well. I dont see why i cant draw any conclusions from the data when it is that biased in favour of one race over all the others.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 07:23   #4
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

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Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Well, there has been a significant difference between Xans and all other races in terms of average roids all round, and a noticeable shift between xans and the others in average score as well, and there seems to be rough Xan/Zik equality in terms of Value all round as well. I dont see why i cant draw any conclusions from the data when it is that biased in favour of one race over all the others.
But the data doesnt support your conclusion. Is the terran average lower than the xan average because xan is stronger than terran or because there are alot more casual player and scanners playing terran planets, thus pulling the averages down? A quick look at the planet rankings seems to show that it is the latter.

That is just the clearest example of why these numbers cannot be used to draw conclusions about the strength of each race.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 10:31   #5
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

It's normally only meaningful to look at the t200 or so. You can't tell much even then though. Strong players will finish high regardless of their race every round. All it normally shows is whether a particular race is shockingly bad.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 15:17   #6
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

I don't think Xan's are over powered this round. The cloaking advantage is offset by the number of things that target FR/CO that Xans. If Xans have a high average it's probably because the smaller Xan players have a major advantage over their smaller counter parts of other races. For the new player attacking Xan's is very difficult, and if you know the basics you can do just fine as an Xan because of the cloaking advantage.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 20:56   #7
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

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Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
What are the reasons behind the apparent success of the race this round?
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Unread 22 Nov 2006, 00:01   #8
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

Terrans rape everything and then xans go and rape em with their phants + fr combo or with faking. I miss my roids
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Unread 22 Nov 2006, 00:34   #9
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

Destruction of value. Fleetcatch-ability. Any smart xan attacks with FR, which is virtually impossible to FC effectivly (vips+clips being the exception, and vipers aren't in high supply considering that Caths prefer Mantis since they're lossless killers).

attack fleet / matching FC fleet:
Ter DE -> Xan FR
Ter BS -> Cath CR
Cat CO -> Zik FI
Cat CR -> Zik BS + Ter BS
Xan CO -> Zik FI (appirition flak helps vs shadow)
Xan FR -> no populus roiding-class ships, exception being very few ziks
Zik FI -> Zik CO + Cath CO
Zik DE -> Cath CR + Zik CR

Edit: Sure you can argue vips+clips, but all xans have decent Nightmares and that's a Clipper's worst nightmare!
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Unread 22 Nov 2006, 00:47   #10
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

There really arent even that many good value xans.. I see 2 and then I see a ton of fat terrans and shipfarming ziks with keiz/satyr for the big caths.

Edit: not saying the ziks shipfarm as in cheat, but noobs crash into them or just don't run and they steal a lot etc
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Unread 22 Nov 2006, 15:09   #11
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

I don't think it really means anything
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Unread 22 Nov 2006, 18:04   #12
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

Perhaps appocomaster was right about the significance of the xandathrii destroyer EMP resistance. I stand corrected.
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Unread 22 Nov 2006, 18:22   #13
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

Mil scans.

Even with them, people arent sure which fleet xans sent, but its makes it a **** load easier to tell what ziks sent.
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Unread 22 Nov 2006, 19:57   #14
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

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Originally Posted by Cannon_Fodder
Mil scans.

Even with them, people arent sure which fleet xans sent, but its makes it a **** load easier to tell what ziks sent.
Is this for or against Mil scans? Personally I think mil scans are a wonderful addition this round with the Xan cloaking. I don't feel that ziks need the advantage of being able to disguise what they sent, they have enough options as it is.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 16:53   #15
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

I have played xan this rnd and have experienced some things.

Im pretty good at keeping my roids, especially if istock some res. My main problem is huge cath CR incs.

Offensively ive had a really hard time. I think on my latest 25 attack ive landed 3, due to every1 having Mantis\Wraith these days, and if i send along phantoms i have a bit more luck but shadows are damn common

Xans are quite good this round, but i wouldnt say superior in any way.
Ive had a extremely hard time getting any form of xp, this is reflected in my t80 value rank(and early on high score rank) while my xp rank is around 600th
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 17:16   #16
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

Saphi is totally going to owe me a credit.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 17:43   #17
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx
I have played xan this rnd and have experienced some things.

Im pretty good at keeping my roids, especially if istock some res. My main problem is huge cath CR incs.

Offensively ive had a really hard time. I think on my latest 25 attack ive landed 3, due to every1 having Mantis\Wraith these days, and if i send along phantoms i have a bit more luck but shadows are damn common

Xans are quite good this round, but i wouldnt say superior in any way.
Ive had a extremely hard time getting any form of xp, this is reflected in my t80 value rank(and early on high score rank) while my xp rank is around 600th
I think a few of those factors are down to how you play, particularly the XP. It sounds like you got ahead early and kept a balanced fleet. Of the 10 Xan with most score, it's an even split between XP and value players. Of the XP players, 4 are in the top10 on XP, which is an over-representation ratio-wise.

Even if we discount the top10 as outliers, 18 of the next 40 planets are top50 on XP, which is still an over-representation.

Similar numbers apply to the top10 and top11-50 on XP. 6 of the top10 are Xan, and Xan with 17, are over-represented (more than 30%*) in the top11-50.

* I'm assuming Zikonian will be naturally under-represented.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 18:53   #18
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
Is this for or against Mil scans? Personally I think mil scans are a wonderful addition this round with the Xan cloaking. I don't feel that ziks need the advantage of being able to disguise what they sent, they have enough options as it is.
I dislike mil scans a lot. I think it makes information too easily available and takes some fun out of the game (from both points of view).
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 16:59   #19
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

Im really suprised so many xans wud be high up in xp. Id imagine Terrans would be best in that department. Its a 'well known' fact i dont like to loose ships, id prolly end higher if i did :P
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 19:57   #20
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx
Im really suprised so many xans wud be high up in xp. Id imagine Terrans would be best in that department. Its a 'well known' fact i dont like to loose ships, id prolly end higher if i did :P
With Xan FR you can scare away home ships against both Terran and (especially) Zik. This means you can hit upwards if your fleet is very lop-sided. Same goes for CO against Zik or FI/CO against Ter, I guess.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 02:11   #21
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

I think you can't call this round 'the round of the xans'
We have a powerful fleet to roid terrans with our frigates, but the problem of that is that it is way too easy to cover.

Terran BS and Cathaar CR are the 2 best roiding fleets of the round. Being xan has the great advantage that not many people will want to attack you. The xan advantage this round lies in defence, not in attack. Towards round end Im finding it harder and harder to steal roids because either they send wraiths/mantis against you, or when you sent your phantoms along, they get shadows or beetle/thief/spirit to kill you off. Of course faking helps, but any mantis/scorp fleet would stop you at any time.

Still I love Xan this round and certainly our def fleets are very valuable for the alliance

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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 08:27   #22
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

Tell me about it ^^
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Unread 2 Dec 2006, 16:15   #23
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

is it just me.... Xans have been ez to roid all round long (with a Co fleet ofc)!
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Unread 2 Dec 2006, 16:35   #24
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

good luck with that Id be glad to receive your corvettes.....

but you are right, Corvettes are the main weakness of xans, with CR and BS behind that
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Unread 2 Dec 2006, 16:42   #25
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

nah Ghosts and Spectres rock.

As a zik i made it a mission to get a healthy number of both of those
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Unread 11 Dec 2006, 06:47   #26
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

Ghosts and Spectres are only OK, youve got to invest alot of resources in de to get above good caths and even then top level caths can still roid you easily.
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Unread 11 Dec 2006, 12:56   #27
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

Ghosts were great. With the current salvage formula defending ghosts were guaranteed 70% payback per dying Ghost. Any Ghosts that didn't die were pure gravy. Spectres were crap, and had horrible EMP resistance compared to the Ghost.

In hindsight, I'd recommend a build ratio of 2:1 or so Ghosts:Spectres.
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Unread 13 Dec 2006, 03:46   #28
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

have to say i agree with most of the comments, the fr fleet was picked early as the stronger fleet. it was clear that xan co was useless, imo possibly the worst attack fleet of the round. only use was in faking and terrs who didnt have many pegs.

as said, mants have been a problem, but much more so wraiths, especially as they can be (and were) frequently sent at eta 8 from out of alli defenders. Wont be xan again nxt round if this problem persists.

*edit* problem of wraiths at eta 7 not problem of out of alli defence as i know this is ok to certain extents.
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Unread 13 Dec 2006, 08:37   #29
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

xan co was easily better than fr if you mixed it with a shitload of phantoms and banshees (and i do mean -shitloads-)
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 00:44   #30
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

A shitload of phantoms made the fr fleet much strongers aswell. Same difference really you can kill wraiths/nixes but scorps/mantis still get ya.

I didnt really use co at all, but I know some fi-ziks were able to take on xan co fleets, wherease you never really had to worry about a zik going after frigs.

and MOshy, they tend to drastically change the stats every round, so there isnt too much risk of things working the same way.
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 08:11   #31
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

The problem with sending phants along with FR fleet is that it takes two fleets(unless u put both in one fleet, which usually meant shadows defending).
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 21:50   #32
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Re: The Round of the Xans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx
The problem with sending phants along with FR fleet is that it takes two fleets(unless u put both in one fleet, which usually meant shadows defending).
Thats true, though I found that your average player didnt really seem to have access to much shadow defence and when I attacked better planets the roids/xp were worth the 2 fleet committment. There definately was an advantage in the co/fi fleet targetting almost everything.
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