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Unread 20 Aug 2012, 14:09   #51
Forest
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

I am not sure removing exile is the option. But it needs to be a massive negative to be done.

For instance:

Exiling a planet from the galaxy loses you 5% of your end score. So if your gal exiled 4 ppl thats 20% off at tick 1000.

Self-exiling loses you 5% of your end score per exile OR maybe 5% of your mining bonus per exile

Is it worth discussing this further?

You would need a cap of 80% loss or something.
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Unread 20 Aug 2012, 14:16   #52
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

Is it worth discussing this further? no

would be better discussing ways for alliances to help new players more and ways to get new players to those alliances.

example, giving alliances up to 5 tag spots for use specifically for newly signed up accounts, these accounts should not count to alliance score and not be part of the 50/60.. idea being you are training them up for the second round of membership to your alliance.
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Unread 20 Aug 2012, 14:18   #53
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

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Is it worth discussing this further? no

would be better discussing ways for alliances to help new players more and ways to get new players to those alliances.

example, giving alliances up to 5 tag spots for use specifically for newly signed up accounts, these accounts should not count to alliance score and not be part of the 50/60.. idea being you are training them up for the second round of membership to your alliance.
How would that help? there are plenty of alliances willing to give players a chance, the problem is getting them to be a position to join the alliances
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Unread 20 Aug 2012, 14:30   #54
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

I'm talking with my CT hat on there, we just kicked to get down to 60, we sure as hell cant use any of our spaces for new players who come to us when we are having to kick. if we had slots that could only be used for new players then maybe we would be able to
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Unread 20 Aug 2012, 15:11   #55
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

Funny thing, that. Lower the tag limit and new players have a harder time joining an alliance. Who could have ever expected that!

(If I come across as a smug ****, right now, that's because I feel like a smug ****.)
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Unread 20 Aug 2012, 17:35   #56
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

i think people need to get a grip on the reality of PA. everyone seems to ignore the fact that we sit here arguing about the tiniest little things that have a miniscule effect on the game.

there are MAJOR problems with this game and alliance limits and exiling are not in that list.
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Unread 20 Aug 2012, 17:36   #57
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I suppose you wouldn't be happen to able to provide a more balanced account of the conversation, would you?
No point, considering this is 'alliance discussions' and anything you try and back up, you'll get trolled anyway.
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Unread 20 Aug 2012, 17:49   #58
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

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No point, considering this is 'alliance discussions' and anything you try and back up, you'll get trolled anyway.
better to try and make a point and get trolled than to not bother and look like you are full of shit.
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Unread 20 Aug 2012, 18:51   #59
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

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No point, considering this is 'alliance discussions' and anything you try and back up, you'll get trolled anyway.
One could say that making arguments and never backing them up is trolling? Or at least it's worthless input. I wouldn't say it credit me much anyway, I was just using it to describe how you (and deras) clearly view "your" galaxy and how high your thoughts are of it. The general idea of that WE should be glad you even as much as contemplate having a ND/pwned/tof/hr in gal just paints a not-so-pretty picture. So of course, if you have that approach to people of only lesser alliances alone, one can only imagine that if you kept a newbie in gal for 24 ticks you'd consider yourself a saint.

TL;DR: Stop being full of yourself: you're not helping new players and you probably never have because you're just not one of those people that bother. Say otherwise and anyone here can smell the bullshit. Clearly the person who even came close was Blizzz, and I'd say it's about right given what I saw from being in-gal with you.
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Unread 20 Aug 2012, 19:30   #60
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

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One could say that making arguments and never backing them up is trolling?
If I recall correctly, you started the argument by providing a part log of our conversation on irc, and I just responded sarcastically.

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I wouldn't say it credit me much anyway, I was just using it to describe how you (and deras) clearly view "your" galaxy and how high your thoughts are of it.
Explain to how you came to the conclusion of how highly I view my bp when reading this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doffeh View Post
[04:23:15:22] <@Clouds> You of all people know how the bp has helped with new players
[04:23:25:28] <02+Doffeh> Me?
[04:23:45:70] <@Clouds> There was a new/returning player in the galaxy when you joined
[04:24:05:61] <@Clouds> Plus we didn't exile you just because you were hr etc
[04:24:26:67] <02+Doffeh> you didn't exile me because I'm active, good shit
My point wasn't that we kept you due to you being in HR, but we kept anyone who had the wiliness to play and who were willing to use irc, irrilevent of experience.

If we wanted to go for a top galaxy, we would've exiled anyone from alliances who weren't capable of defending properly, to better our chances.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Doffeh View Post
The general idea of that WE should be glad you even as much as contemplate having a ND/pwned/tof/hr in gal just paints a not-so-pretty picture. So of course, if you have that approach to people of only lesser alliances alone, one can only imagine that if you kept a newbie in gal for 24 ticks you'd consider yourself a saint.
This is what you call trolling. Get your head out of your arse and get a grip. You're only being a **** because of my actions earlier in the round.

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Originally Posted by Doffeh View Post
TL;DR: Stop being full of yourself: you're not helping new players and you probably never have because you're just not one of those people that bother. Say otherwise and anyone here can smell the bullshit. Clearly the person who even came close was Blizzz, and I'd say it's about right given what I saw from being in-gal with you.
I'd like to make clear that we have accepted newbies in the past, who were willing to play and be irc active, where we have supported them, whether it's being in-galaxy defence when their alliance have failed them or giving them advise.

To be honest, Doffeh, your claims are just specultive, and you have no idea of the bp's history with noobs. Furthermore, Spammer shouldn't be blamed for excecuting the bp's strategy this round. It was a collective decision and he was only following the strat.

Last edited by Clouds; 20 Aug 2012 at 20:12.
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Unread 20 Aug 2012, 20:50   #61
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

Well, I may now summarize:

You're not newbie friendly, you're not friendly towards lower ranked alliances and by the looks of things and language, you're not very friendly in general. I don't expect you to care, but that's just the view I (and probably a few others) have. Yeah yeah, boohoo. If this doesn't bother you, stop rejecting it and swallow it already.

Anyway I was in the BP-gal a round it supposedly was friendly to newbies - let's just be blunt, it wasn't. It was business as usual. So Forest has a point and most of us are part of the problem. Some not so much, some, as yourself Clouds, are without a shadow of a doubt part of the problem. This of course, only makes sense if you believe that what Forest is presenting IS a problem. Not expecting everyone here to think it's a problem, I'm not expecting anyone to care either - but if you fail to realize how it can be a problem, then you're most likely part of said problem.

Though I do agree fully with what was said earlier: This isn't PA's only problem. Not at all.

Last edited by Doffeh; 20 Aug 2012 at 20:59.
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Unread 20 Aug 2012, 22:05   #62
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

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No point, considering this is 'alliance discussions' and anything you try and back up, you'll get trolled anyway.
I know this is a crazy thought but doesnt having someone disagreeing with your points (or anyone else's) the whole point of a discussion
crazy thought no 2 being replied to does not actually mean your being trolled
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Unread 20 Aug 2012, 22:18   #63
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

I find the attitude of players you experienced in this 'experiement' shocking.

ESPECIALLY as spammer arrived into my galaxy on his first round and was helped by my galaxy and had some tips pointed out to him (i know paisley is his bro but we still tried to help him build his fleet right and get him involved in the gal) and he turned out a valuable gal member.

As far as i see it from a personalo point of veiw any member of your galaxy that makes an effort to join in is worth keeping, you can unearth some real gems from 'n00bs' in this game if you give them 15 mins of your time for a few days and have a helpful attitude. Ok so you might have played 48 rounds and be cynical about everything but does it really kill you to quickly give a new guy a fleet build plan and go speak to hc of a middle teir alliance (like HR) on his behalf???

MAKE THEM FEEL WANTED AND 50% TURN OUT TO BE OK AT PA!!!
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Unread 20 Aug 2012, 22:26   #64
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

Remove alliance limits, remove pre launch, remove cov op, random gals only, no exiling.
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Unread 20 Aug 2012, 22:29   #65
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

actually removing self exiles and limiting each galaxy to 6 exiles would do fine. That way you have to take a chance on a n00b eventually! it becomes more do you kick out someone who is intrested in playing but lacking knowledge for a possible complete inactive
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Unread 20 Aug 2012, 22:31   #66
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

--------------
Ruler name (x:y:z) RE: Yo! Sat, 11 Aug 13:53:35 1_x:y:z
Hey I'll be active and available via text but will be solo player as my wife is due to give birth shortly so haven't got time for an alliance/irc. If that's any good to you?
--------------

I said sure, as long as you want to work alongside the gal, id be happy to have you.
Saturday 18 of august, he was top30 in roids, and top50 in score, although i had helped him a lot with claiming targets and sending defence. This one was not a new player to the game, but im sure that most gals would tell him to self exile, we didnt, and he is doing allright if u ask me.
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Unread 20 Aug 2012, 22:33   #67
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

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actually removing self exiles and limiting each galaxy to 6 exiles would do fine. That way you have to take a chance on a n00b eventually! it becomes more do you kick out someone who is intrested in playing but lacking knowledge for a possible complete inactive
Why would you need to exile anybody realy?
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Unread 21 Aug 2012, 03:47   #68
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

Leaking intel when their alliance hits you, crashing their fleet, acting like a jerk, not attacking, not defending, not following instructions.
there are lots of reason to exile someone removal of that feature would hurt the game.
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Unread 21 Aug 2012, 04:45   #69
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

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Why would you need to exile anybody realy?
Because they're idle. Or stupid. Or crashed. Or are spying. Or abused the galfund. Or any of a million other reasons.
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Unread 21 Aug 2012, 05:33   #70
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

As they said above, you DO need the exile function, if only to remove dead planets from your galaxy but i think a cap on the number of exiles and the removal of self exiling would force players to work to together and help newer players more
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Unread 21 Aug 2012, 07:58   #71
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

do you really think there are any new players joining planetarion these days? why on earth do u think that?
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Unread 21 Aug 2012, 11:54   #72
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

The other day I met a guy who smelled like the unholy union of a garbage dump and a skunk colony. It was truly vile. When I asked him about it, my eyes watering as the smell enveloped me, he replied he never showered, explaining: "why bother? I have no friends!"

Here ends the lesson.
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Unread 21 Aug 2012, 12:45   #73
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

lesson taken, tyvm
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Unread 21 Aug 2012, 16:02   #74
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

Shouldn't this thread be in 'Planetarion Discussions'?
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Unread 21 Aug 2012, 17:24   #75
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

i did think about it but decided attitudes had to change at hc level
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Unread 22 Aug 2012, 00:09   #76
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

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think i have said it a few times before but will say it again. remove the exile option. then galaxies will have no choice but to try and communicate with noobs and get them into the game. also, stop having tag limits so mass noobs/less actives can compete with super actives. change PL.
Agreed, remove the self exile on top of that, and introduce regular shuffles/removals of farms/one timer logins.

As long as the feature is there, galaxies will try to make the best possible team, for the sake of themselves and thier ally (fence or fort).
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Unread 22 Aug 2012, 00:11   #77
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

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Originally Posted by Reincarnate View Post

there are MAJOR problems with this game and alliance limits and exiling are not in that list.
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Unread 22 Aug 2012, 00:11   #78
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

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i did think about it but decided attitudes had to change at hc level
Well im sure its not all alliances HCs that needs their attitude change, maybe just those in the top
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Unread 22 Aug 2012, 06:15   #79
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

by removing self exile i believe there will be a decline of active planets, so that they get exiled for being crap. so removing self exile won't work, you need to modify it, either allow planets to choose from a list of available exile destinations ie. somewhere that is better than where they are and also somewhere that isn't in a top10-20 ranking.
There is nothing worse than spending half the round exiling around landing in gals outside of top40. Usually gals outside of top 40 have poor activity and are carrying a lot of trash planets.

i said before that something like

- Increase PATeam to 15+ with the new members designated to training, they are compensated for their time with a free credit or two, the role is basically to support all the new/returning players in the fundamentals of planetarion.

- Instead of everyone shuffled at PT12, all planets start in 1:1 those that have played 4+ rounds recently are automatically shuffled out and there is a check-box to allow your planet to be shuffled if you're a new/returning player who hasn't played many rounds. at PT 13 all planets that aren't shuffled are in 1:1 to be coached by the PATeam on how to play and they are allowed 1 free exile out of 1:1 when they believe or PATeam believes they are good enough to join the crowd.


There are an infinite amount of solutions, but without trying some of them out we will never know which works best.
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Unread 22 Aug 2012, 07:33   #80
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

Removing self-exiling is pointless, people will just reset. Giving people a choice where they want to go is pointless, because it doesn't solve the 'problem', and destination rank restrictions are useless because the first 300 ticks mean nothing.

I am amused these ideas about "increasing PA Team to X" and making them "train people". Funny. Where are these magical new PA Team members going to from?
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Unread 22 Aug 2012, 09:36   #81
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

simple quick answers that could be implemented to help include the following:

1) alongside the feature where a galaxy can add a galaxy channel with 'key' to the comm unit ADD a feature where you can auto login to netgamers and if they dont have a netgamers nick - a link to the site with a short description on why its useful.

2) you could change the quests etc but a quick solution (that goes part way) would be to explain WHY you are doing a quest in the quest overview. So instead of saying this -

'Description: You need asteroids to give more income to your planet. Initiate some!'

it says

'initiate some asteroids for income, as the game progresses you can steal them instead (combat explained here: link). you can also supplement your income with mining (link to manual here), Population (link here) and refineries (link to manual here)'

longer descriptions would go some way to explain to the average new person why they are 'initiating asteroids' OR 'setting Population'.. links to the manual would help the lazy, new or returning people and writing it in PLAIN ENGLISH would help.

3) create a quest where they open up the comm unit and join the galaxy channel. Maybe make it compulsary for galaxies to have ONLY key locked rooms and MAKE them have them added to the comm unit.

4) im not going to comment on the exile function but it does seem that something needs to happen. you cant have galaxies floundering because they have small inactive planets (there are alot of em) and cannot exile them BUT conversely if you have an exile function (self or not) it does allow abuse..

working on the in-game stuff to start with would make small improvements for the small amount of returning players to this small game..
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Unread 22 Aug 2012, 09:40   #82
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

It aint what ya know, its who you know

I too decided to play a round, and took measures to ensure nobodywould know its me, i changed my playernick to Anon on signup, and have made sure only to login from ingame irc with a fakenick. I too started late around about the same time as Forest

1st gal i landed in have been nothing but friendly to me, offering advice and guidance instantly, and when i told them i wasnt in and had no plans to join an alliance, they said "ok, we'll cover your ass" When our gal got raided i received in gal defence when members of the bp didn't. They have tirelessly got me scans and put me into their attacks.

I didn't do this as an experiment and tbh they worked out i wasn't nub pretty quick, i did this purely because i don't want to get dragged back into uber activity by old contacts on irc, but i was pleasantly suprised by the warm welcome a gal was prepared to give to what they assumed was a new player

I would like to have seen a double blind experiment from Forest and a.n.other to compare results. Forests experiment is notable as it mostly includes the games 'elite' or at least some of its most active. The whole game isn't anti noob but parts of the game want to win and would do anything to win or at least give themselves a shot at the win.

Maybe my account uninowingly provides the double blind experiment,
I dunno. But i do feel it shows that if you remove the 'elite' from the equation then a new planet enjoys a much better experience.

For that reason i feel blueesper has made some of the better suggestions as to 'how to fix this', though of course they would need major fine tuning.

Edit - I do wonder if a bp was given an option 'accept new planets in the shuffle' how many people would tick that box

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Unread 22 Aug 2012, 09:53   #83
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

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Originally Posted by Blue_Esper View Post

- Increase PATeam to 15+ with the new members designated to training, they are compensated for their time with a free credit or two, the role is basically to support all the new/returning players in the fundamentals of planetarion.
these people pretty much already exist, they are called the support team. large group of very knowledgable people that are a very under used resource.
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Unread 22 Aug 2012, 12:28   #84
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

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1st gal i landed in have been nothing but friendly to me, offering advice and guidance instantly
We're all dying to know why you're referring to it as "1st gal i landed in" because that sure makes it sound like you eventually ended up in a second one, maybe a third one and so on.

Regardless though, which galaxy?
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Unread 22 Aug 2012, 13:02   #85
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

Do we really want kargool training new people ??
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Unread 22 Aug 2012, 13:14   #86
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

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We're all dying to know why you're referring to it as "1st gal i landed in" because that sure makes it sound like you eventually ended up in a second one, maybe a third one and so on.
ahh sorry if that was misleading, I just meant the luck of the draw plonked me into a new player friendly gal at the very first time of asking.

I have not moved out of that gal.
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Unread 22 Aug 2012, 13:32   #87
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

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Originally Posted by Reincarnate View Post
these people pretty much already exist, they are called the support team. large group of very knowledgable people that are a very under used resource.
Yes that might be the case, but don't some of them play in their own alliances? i would like to see them in the 1:1 galaxy with galaxy channel specifically for that galaxy so ALL the new players are forced to use them rather then people who don't really wanna spend time training a newbie in their own gal
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Unread 22 Aug 2012, 15:06   #88
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

didn't finish reading the whole thread so don't know what everyone replied. Simple answer to me is to remove exile. Gals should be Max size 8 or 9 with buddy pack of 5.
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Unread 22 Aug 2012, 15:09   #89
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

its a nice idea blue and i think you could get people willing to do it. however, would require something to actually be done by the powahs that be. So, you have more chance of God proving his existence than this happening.
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Unread 22 Aug 2012, 23:39   #90
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

Somehow this doesn't surprise me, and the nicks mentioned in those gals well... you have to have some bad luck to end up with those. Then again i believe their are plenty of players that are willing to help. Any nub is welcome in #oddr willing to be active and so in most allies playing not in Top 5.
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Unread 22 Aug 2012, 23:47   #91
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

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Somehow this doesn't surprise me, and the nicks mentioned in those gals well... you have to have some bad luck to end up with those. Then again i believe their are plenty of players that are willing to help. Any nub is welcome in #oddr willing to be active and so in most allies playing not in Top 5.
Any nub except Donar is welcome.
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Unread 6 Sep 2012, 00:48   #92
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

one of my members was insulted, invited to leave and treated generally like a piece of dirt...
not by any means a 1st rounder, not by any means a useless player and certainly not acting like a retard !
This particular member started a blog on the galaxies forum of their experience with added humour and sarcasm.
Kept us entertained for days, had to leave eventually for somewhere more friendly.
I personally have been verbally insulted, threatened etc for exiling into somewhere and offered the funds to leave, i didnt, i was having wayy too much fun frustrating them and after a few days they removed me from the gal chan and exiled me.

but my point is that its not just the new players its done to, but a new player probably wouldnt have had the confidence or taken the time to royally take the *beep* out of them.
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Unread 8 Sep 2012, 13:07   #93
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

Was the last galaxy our gal ? ? ? ? ? ?
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Unread 8 Sep 2012, 23:11   #94
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

yep and you were cocks too
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Unread 10 Sep 2012, 17:40   #95
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

Lies utter LIES i didnt banish u did i
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Unread 11 Sep 2012, 12:57   #96
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

To add to this thread and build on what Mistwraith said:

I returned to the game and landed in a Fockers gal. Although I tried to get communications going I got no response. Then, I exiled myself into another Fockers gal. Same story. Finally, I landed in a gal which is filled with DFWTK and tbh... there isnt much communications going as well, but at least there is a galchan!

In short, I knew there were some cnuts lurking around the universe, but I didnt expect teh numbers to have multiplied in such manner in about 11 rounds... or was I just unlucky?
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Unread 11 Sep 2012, 13:15   #97
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

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Originally Posted by Membrivio View Post
To add to this thread and build on what Mistwraith said:

I returned to the game and landed in a Fockers gal. Although I tried to get communications going I got no response. Then, I exiled myself into another Fockers gal. Same story. Finally, I landed in a gal which is filled with DFWTK and tbh... there isnt much communications going as well, but at least there is a galchan!

In short, I knew there were some cnuts lurking around the universe, but I didnt expect teh numbers to have multiplied in such manner in about 11 rounds... or was I just unlucky?
The Fockers has just been trying to ruin the game this round.
imho, alliances should in the future not let in anyone from teh fockers into their alliances/gals.
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Unread 11 Sep 2012, 13:21   #98
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

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The Fockers has just been trying to ruin the game this round.
imho, alliances should in the future not let in anyone from teh fockers into their alliances/gals.
Tbh Butcher, they have a right to pursue their own goals in their own way. However, they could be a little more communicative to the newbies in this game. Be honest about what they do and exile the people themselves. That way a newbie can land in a better = more newbie friendly gal and The Fockers can still Fock everyone they want
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Unread 11 Sep 2012, 15:29   #99
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

Tbh at least Fockers have added something a little different, made even the most fenced planets still have to worry about incs, which imo is good. I have lost a fair few roids to Fockers sadly this round but hey, what fun is there in a round with no incs/challenge?
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Unread 11 Sep 2012, 17:08   #100
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Re: The diary of a newbie [long]

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The Fockers has just been trying to ruin the game this round.
imho, alliances should in the future not let in anyone from teh fockers into their alliances/gals.
I know I will regret this but care to explain how they are trying to ruin the game , I thought they were just lol waving their way through the top 20 planets
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