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Unread 3 Aug 2010, 20:59   #1
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Prelaunch (split)

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Originally Posted by DarkHeart View Post
<snip>
when every1 is asleep the game comes to life.
<snip>
That's why prelaunching (visible or otherwise) is a BAD thing. At least in the days before PL people actually had to be awake to launch their attacks - and were therefore also available to launch defence fleets shortly afterwards.
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Unread 3 Aug 2010, 21:05   #2
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

not really. You did. Others did. I didnt once get up in the middle of the night back in the day, did all my attacking and defending during the daytime. Coincidentally, those are the days i miss as those are the days i enjoyed the most.
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Unread 3 Aug 2010, 21:13   #3
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

I hate to be a pedant, but he said "awake to launch their attacks", which isn't the same as "awake in the middle of the night to launch attacks".

Some people would indeed get up at night to launch, but most of us no longer would, at least not for standard gal raids. And because we don't get up at night, arranging defence becomes much harder than it would be if the vast majority of people launched right before they went to bed.
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Unread 3 Aug 2010, 21:13   #4
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

I agree with you about them being the most enjoyable days.

And I also think you demonstrate the point about prelaunching. If players weren't around in the early hours of the morning then they attacked at different times - thereby adding a bit of variety and a bit of excitement during the daylight hours.

Another benefit of having to be online in order to launch is that we're (more) likely to talk to each other while we're waiting for launch time to arrive. With PL we can just pick our target, pre-launch and go to bed - not much contribution towards the community spirit there.
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Unread 3 Aug 2010, 21:20   #5
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

Defending prelaunch should never be removed in my opinion, it was a pain having to be up at the right time once an attack was launched to send your defence in time.
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Unread 3 Aug 2010, 21:25   #6
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

Archas prelaunching did not create the shift of tendancy towards everybody launching in the dead of the night, it was a natural evolution of the game as the playerbase got less, less people were available to force attacks through in the daytime, so the majority came to rule and everybody was forced to attack in the middle of the night.

Prelaunching did not cause this shift, prelaunching was added to aid those who could not launch in the middle of the night and would otherwise be forced away from the game. Please note that. So people wouldnt leave the game. As we all get older and more responsible in our real life roles (we being the community in general due to the lack of younger players entering the community) then the prevalance and need for keeping and evolving the prelaunch system becomes more. Until such time as i orignally stated that a substitue system is developed which encourages more people to attack during the day ( removing prelaunch! is not a substitue system in a depleted universe)

And what I suggested (ie remove the visibility of prelaunch) is not the paradox it might seem. Until the game shifts to a dynamic where there is a feasibility in attacking when awake, then you need to make prelaunching more akin to waking up in the middle of the night to live launch, to aid the offensive nature and force of the game. Plus there is the consequential benefit of not knowing you are going to be receiving incs... so if u want to save your ass then hey u might just have to wake up in the middle of the night to check? Which is what you wish?
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Unread 3 Aug 2010, 21:40   #7
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken View Post
Defending prelaunch should never be removed in my opinion, it was a pain having to be up at the right time once an attack was launched to send your defence in time.
Totally agree there.
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Unread 3 Aug 2010, 22:26   #8
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

hmm one thing i forgot to add when u asked teitaja

i play wow (for my sins) but only relatively recently. I always refused to get involved due to its time consuming and addictive nature ( i have a very addictive personality). However 2 years back I started playing in a pub poker league with a couple of mates, and it turned out the pub we happened to choose had a really sound group of dudes and dudettes playing poker there regularly, they become a good group of friends who despite their recent arrival to my life, im proud to call them my best friends. Theyre the perfect group, they party hard when they want to, theyre all good looking people so fanny comes easily in and out of our group, but theyre all geeks at heart and love to play geeky computer games

digressing but the background is important to what id love to see changed in PA and is entirely relevant to what might make me play round after round and also introduce new players

we play wow once a week on a lan at sharkys house. weve got 6 desktops set up there permanent and enough ports and a solid connection to support another 6 laptops that people can bring. We all get a litre of vodka each and a communal pool of 5 litres of vodka, plus kitty in to a whole fridge full of mixers. we get seriously ****ed up and raid together int he same room playing wow. we banter we bitch we fight we cry we wake up ina pool of our vomit and covered in electrical tape with GAY wrote out on our foreheads.

You just cant do that with PA. I shared a flat with two mates for 6 years before i bought my house in November. I got one of them to play PA but the rules stipulated that we couldnt be in the same gal, we couldnt attack together and we couldnt defend each other (edit - more background to highlight how restictive PA is) the lad i got to play PA is the younger brother of the ex wolfpack bc i mentioned earlier who now gets sponsered to run raids in another game. Once my flatmate started playing he then got his youngest brother (theres 4 of them) to play. I couldnt play the game with my flatmate, and though we could both play with my flatmates youngest brother as he lived at his mums at the time so a seperate IP, his brother could not play with the both of us at the same time as that would break the rules. Once i bought my house and moved out of the flat my ex flatmates youngest brother who we got playing moved into the flat. Now my exflatmate and his brother can't play together so they both quit. Ironically, i could of now finally played with both of them, and both of them could of played with me, but coz those two shared an ip, we couldnt all interact together. If they had stayed.(end edit). Confused. Yup. Stupendously short sighted. Yup. Imagine 10+ people in the same room on a random night playing PA. Multi hunters would have a field day. PA is a solitary existance regardless of the community

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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 07:43   #9
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

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Originally Posted by DarkHeart View Post
Yup. Imagine 10+ people in the same room on a random night playing PA. Multi hunters would have a field day. PA is a solitary existance regardless of the community

Now, what comes to that, you can apply for exceptions. I'm not sure what they'd say if you'd say 10 people (probably they'd say that because there's a fistful of salty beach sand in someone's groin it's not possible), but I've had some people over my place along the years that've played Planetarion too. That for one I remember MacTanzu for wrecking ultimate havoc with his chatters with a certain female player, and well, I won't go into too much detail. But it was good days!

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or those retarded rules get changed? they are seriously, retarded.
Wasn't me.

Last edited by Tietäjä; 4 Aug 2010 at 09:14. Reason: Removed offending paragraph
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 08:33   #10
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHeart View Post
Archas prelaunching did not create the shift of tendancy towards everybody launching in the dead of the night, it was a natural evolution of the game as the playerbase got less, less people were available to force attacks through in the daytime, so the majority came to rule and everybody was forced to attack in the middle of the night.

Prelaunching did not cause this shift, prelaunching was added to aid those who could not launch in the middle of the night and would otherwise be forced away from the game. Please note that. So people wouldnt leave the game. As we all get older and more responsible in our real life roles (we being the community in general due to the lack of younger players entering the community) then the prevalance and need for keeping and evolving the prelaunch system becomes more. Until such time as i orignally stated that a substitue system is developed which encourages more people to attack during the day ( removing prelaunch! is not a substitue system in a depleted universe)

And what I suggested (ie remove the visibility of prelaunch) is not the paradox it might seem. Until the game shifts to a dynamic where there is a feasibility in attacking when awake, then you need to make prelaunching more akin to waking up in the middle of the night to live launch, to aid the offensive nature and force of the game. Plus there is the consequential benefit of not knowing you are going to be receiving incs... so if u want to save your ass then hey u might just have to wake up in the middle of the night to check? Which is what you wish?

So, you are trying to tell us that at no point during the night / day you are able to live launch? Seriously, its possible to launch attacks at PA within a 18hrs timeframe during any given day. ( I spose most dont sleep more than 7hrs? )

Remove fking prelaunching, it just makes the game stale and predictive. Allow people to set +1 on attacks tops.

So you want to remove the smal award given currently to active players? GREAT! If anything, you should be able to tell WHEN PLed attacks land, to make them less viable.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 10:23   #11
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
( I spose most dont sleep more than 7hrs? )

Remove fking prelaunching, it just makes the game stale and predictive. Allow people to set +1 on attacks tops.
8 hrs here

I don't mind prelaunching, but how about making it so that prelaunches take one tick longer(i.e only eta -3 max). This would also add a element of unknown to the game as you sometimes wont know if the guy sent de at PL eta or BS at "non-PL" eta!
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 10:46   #12
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
8 hrs here

I don't mind prelaunching, but how about making it so that prelaunches take one tick longer(i.e only eta -3 max). This would also add a element of unknown to the game as you sometimes wont know if the guy sent de at PL eta or BS at "non-PL" eta!
A scan of some sort would give you that information, no? :-)
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 10:49   #13
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

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Originally Posted by Kjeldoran View Post
A scan of some sort would give you that information, no? :-)
or just adding a ship of a higher class onto it, like you already can

But, anything to get less people to PL and **** up my night when I get incs approve
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 13:26   #14
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

Ive never really thought about it, always considered prelaunch to even the playingfield as far as attacking goes. Everyone can prelaunch there attack and get the same attacking benefit from launching when there are the least people online.

I presume it would still be the same for the top alliances who want members to be online at night to defend anyway. What would Asc's, Apprime's or Osiris's launch times be if there was no prelaunch? I'd still think it would be as late as possible, 1am at the earliest.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 13:40   #15
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

as i stated in some thread already (could b this one even, wasnt bothered to check all the posts with this crappy inet sry) i belive there will b still selected groups launching live around 03-04 game time.. weather its the hardcore players in diffrent alliances forming a group within their ally or just US/NZ/JP ppl, they are still gonna b around..

however i also am quite sure that when u do remove attacking prelaunch or just make it +1 - +2 ticks the most then it would/should/could lead to the more spread out launches from diffrent alliances.. e.g alliances making 2 or who knows, maybe even 3 raids per day on diffrent times (03:00 for nighttime ppl, 06-07 for regular euros that cant wake up during night to launch, etc).. i cant know this for sure, but it kinda makes sense in my eyes..
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 14:28   #16
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

Not really. If you launch 100 fleets and your target can stop 80 of them, 20 will land. If you launch 120 fleets instead, 40 will land, which is a 100% increase.

Considering that half of Ascendancy (the only alliance I know from the inside) barely plays, I'd consider it unlikely many people would be ok with getting up at night to launch on normal galaxy raids. Some might be ok with doing it a few times a round on special occasions (say, to roid Light), but very few would do it nightly.

By the argument in the first paragraph, it then becomes stupid to set up attacks for a time at which most people are unwilling to launch. To build on the example, if only 20 out of your 100 fleets can't or won't launch at 0:59, your landing rate is reduced to 0%. Similarly, if you set up an attack three times a day, you'll be able to launch fewer fleets each of those times than you would if you attacked once a day. Likely not down to a third of what you could launch once a day, but you only need to lose a few fleets to see your landing rate plummet.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 14:47   #17
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Not really. If you launch 100 fleets and your target can stop 80 of them, 20 will land. If you launch 120 fleets instead, 40 will land, which is a 100% increase.

Considering that half of Ascendancy (the only alliance I know from the inside) barely plays, I'd consider it unlikely many people would be ok with getting up at night to launch on normal galaxy raids. Some might be ok with doing it a few times a round on special occasions (say, to roid Light), but very few would do it nightly.

By the argument in the first paragraph, it then becomes stupid to set up attacks for a time at which most people are unwilling to launch. To build on the example, if only 20 out of your 100 fleets can't or won't launch at 0:59, your landing rate is reduced to 0%. Similarly, if you set up an attack three times a day, you'll be able to launch fewer fleets each of those times than you would if you attacked once a day. Likely not down to a third of what you could launch once a day, but you only need to lose a few fleets to see your landing rate plummet.
its not like you have to have 3 attacks, you can all just go earlier. Add the fact that others will also start doing the same, and you will have a planetarion which is actually "live" for more than 2-3 hrs each night.

If people prefer certain attack times, I m sure they will find others who agree, and sort their own attacks for whenever it suits them.
Removing PL will lead to pa being a more "around the clock game".
It will make people who refuse to get up at nights to send defence to be able to send on earlier incs, or later ones. It will reduce the MASSIVE load of incs at certain hrs at night where weak alliances will have no one on, let alone a DC.

Remove PL.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 15:32   #18
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

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Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
its not like you have to have 3 attacks, you can all just go earlier. Add the fact that others will also start doing the same, and you will have a planetarion which is actually "live" for more than 2-3 hrs each night.
Oh, yes, I wasn't arguing against removing prelaunch, I just think that the approach to post-prelaunch PA neroon suggested is not a good one.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 17:47   #19
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

Wish i didnt say i couldnt livelaunch at all, i said the game shifted towards later and later attacks and the prelaunch was introduced to allow those who rather get a nights kip more often than not to still attack with their ally (note im like mz in that respect, i will on occasion set my alarm, if theres an important raid or if the ally / gal is expecting big incs)

Prelaunch provides an option. Removing prelaunch provides no option until the bc's decide to bring forward attack times. As the game stands right now I for one would not play if prelaunch was removed. You for one have proved you will play with prelaunch. So in a very small sample pool of 2 then it makes no sense at all for the game to remove prelaunch and absolute sense to keep prelaunch.

Will bc's bring forward attack times if you remove prelaunch? Im doubtful solely because the shift to later launch times occured before the introduction of prelaunchs? Is what I was saying I guess so yeah i stand by my statement that until there is a dynamic in place to encourage day time attacking then pre launch is essential for the game.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 17:58   #20
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

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Originally Posted by DarkHeart View Post
Wish i didnt say i couldnt livelaunch at all, i said the game shifted towards later and later attacks and the prelaunch was introduced to allow those who rather get a nights kip more often than not to still attack with their ally (note im like mz in that respect, i will on occasion set my alarm, if theres an important raid or if the ally / gal is expecting big incs)

Prelaunch provides an option. Removing prelaunch provides no option until the bc's decide to bring forward attack times. As the game stands right now I for one would not play if prelaunch was removed. You for one have proved you will play with prelaunch. So in a very small sample pool of 2 then it makes no sense at all for the game to remove prelaunch and absolute sense to keep prelaunch.

Will bc's bring forward attack times if you remove prelaunch? Im doubtful solely because the shift to later launch times occured before the introduction of prelaunchs? Is what I was saying I guess so yeah i stand by my statement that until there is a dynamic in place to encourage day time attacking then pre launch is essential for the game.
pre- PL people attacked at a much wider timehorizon.
Cant see many quitting if PL was removed, a change in gameplay would be encouraged by most in this community. I think it would bring back more than it would make people quit.
I wont bother discussing samplings with you, as apparantly you are not very good at it!

I m certain BCs will adapt to the demands of their members. if they dont, then their alliance attacks will simply fail. Also, if they dont, join an alliance which meet your demands. Or just set a BG urself.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 18:04   #21
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

wish this is what i eluded too earlier. back in the day when there were tons of planet, tons of players, cluster alliances et all daytime attacking was a much more straightforward affair. We all know how hard it is these days to organise enough people in the daytime to force an attack on a decent target through?

Which as i said is when everybody then had to attack at night, as the only people who stuck around were the hardcore and the hardcore attacked at night so we were forced to follow their rules?
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 19:32   #22
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

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wish this is what i eluded too earlier. back in the day when there were tons of planet, tons of players, cluster alliances et all daytime attacking was a much more straightforward affair. We all know how hard it is these days to organise enough people in the daytime to force an attack on a decent target through?

Which as i said is when everybody then had to attack at night, as the only people who stuck around were the hardcore and the hardcore attacked at night so we were forced to follow their rules?
Its hard atm cause everyone are able to launch midnight cause of PL. Remove PL and it will be easier to get through for dayraids.

Most of the community is no longer hardcore. At times I feel so lonely
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 19:36   #23
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

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Its hard atm cause everyone are able to launch midnight cause of PL. Remove PL and it will be easier to get through for dayraids.

Most of the community is no longer hardcore. At times I feel so lonely
but theres still a portion of the community which is hardcore and would still launch at 3-6am giving them a huge advantage over everyone else.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 19:39   #24
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

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but theres still a portion of the community which is hardcore and would still launch at 3-6am giving them a huge advantage over everyone else.
The advantage of launching at a period where few people will be lanching will decrease! ( made sense in my head! )
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 19:46   #25
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

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The advantage of launching at a period where few people will be lanching will decrease! ( made sense in my head! )
The advantage from launching when everyone else launches isnt gained from prelaunch, otherwise everyone else would just launch at midnight.

The advantage from launching when there is the least defence available, is why people prelaunch at night.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 19:49   #26
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

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but theres still a portion of the community which is hardcore and would still launch at 3-6am giving them a huge advantage over everyone else.
and the thing that is again bothering me in this sentence is that i do not get why we couldnt reward more activeness..

i know i might get tons of replies from u Light and some other ppl as well telling that we need more casual game, new players dont like it, etc, etc.. but this is bullshit imo, activeness should b rewarded in this game as well as making it more playable for new ppl too (let it b any form of more interesting single play element in pa or what so ever)

and yes, alliances will adapt to having no PL and will do additional raids either later or earlier than the usual times atm in planetarion.. they have to do this in order to give their members a chance to roid and attack as well, and that altogether would spread the launching times from 03-04 game time to a bigger specter.

im quite sure that we will argue about it until the end of times or until PL is removed, as ppl have diffrent views.. in this case it seems we will argue until end of times since i cant see PL being moved by pateam in any way sadly :s
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 19:53   #27
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

and i cant understand why it would b soooo much harder to roid ppl during day if the overall attack launching is spread out more than it is today.. ppl will have fleets out on diffrent times, the ones launching at night will have most fleets flying already by the time ppl from morning raids launch 20+ fleets on a gal making em not being able to defend, etc..

im sure even these times alot of ppl from diffrent alliances have seen that its sometimes pretty hard to cover designated teamup waves during odd daytime
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 19:55   #28
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

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and the thing that is again bothering me in this sentence is that i do not get why we couldnt reward more activeness..

i know i might get tons of replies from u Light and some other ppl as well telling that we need more casual game, new players dont like it, etc, etc.. but this is bullshit imo, activeness should b rewarded in this game as well as making it more playable for new ppl too (let it b any form of more interesting single play element in pa or what so ever)

and yes, alliances will adapt to having no PL and will do additional raids either later or earlier than the usual times atm in planetarion.. they have to do this in order to give their members a chance to roid and attack as well, and that altogether would spread the launching times from 03-04 game time to a bigger specter.

im quite sure that we will argue about it until the end of times or until PL is removed, as ppl have diffrent views.. in this case it seems we will argue until end of times since i cant see PL being moved by pateam in any way sadly :s
What is activeness? You say we should reward it? but as far as i can see, you need to be online at 9pm PL and then online at 4am for 5mins to send defence. This is hardly being extremly active, its 10minutes time. The problem is not being active but the strict timetable that you must be active. I wouldnt mind if the more active you were, the better your planet is.. Be if spending just 10minutes playing PA a day or 10hours. The reality is, activity isnt rewarded in PA as you dont need to be online most the time and there isnt anything to do most the time. You just have to be active for 10minutes in total.


If we remove PL, the noob alliances will be launching much earlier.. where there attacks will easily be covered, meaning that when the more active alliances launch later, the def pool is already used... increasing the likelyhood of them landing coupled with the fact they're attacking in the middle of the night.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 20:26   #29
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

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You just have to be active for 10minutes in total.
Unless you're the one getting prelaunched on by a bunch of people who can happily sleep while you frantically try to get defence. Why are the people being attacked so harsly treated?

The most active alliances attack around the clock anyway.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 20:30   #30
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

neroon you are completly ignoring the obvious so please allow me to reinforce it.

The prelaunch option does not stop you from attacking during the daytime. You choose to attack in the dead of the night as this is the most beneficial to you. If you remove prelaunch you will still attack in the dead of the night.

Removing prelaunch just removes the options available to people. And as has been stated here by others, gives a huge benefit to those who can get up in the middle of the night to launch. Why would people want to play a gam ewhere they are at a disadvantage jus tbecause they cant get up at 3am in the morning?

This thread evolved into a debate on how to encourage people to play, not put them off playing.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 20:34   #31
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

Why does it encourage people to play knowing they are more likely to be attacked when they are asleep?

Surely that's much worse than having to launch your own attacks at a time you think someone might be awake( as I do on a regular basis).
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 20:36   #32
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

because its a war game shev, by signing up to it you kind of resign yourself to the fact that yes you will be attacked and yes you will be roided. Theres a game for ppl who cannot accept they will be attacked and roided that is free to play. Its called farmville.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 20:36   #33
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

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Originally Posted by Light View Post


If we remove PL, the noob alliances will be launching much earlier.. where there attacks will easily be covered, meaning that when the more active alliances launch later, the def pool is already used... increasing the likelyhood of them landing coupled with the fact they're attacking in the middle of the night.
How come you are so sure that they would launch earlier rather than later? I know that if I had the choice between launching at 0100 cet and 0800 cet I would pick 0800. If the 'hardcore' alliances launch in the middle of the night then there shouldn't be much def left to def the 'casual' alliances if they launch later.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 20:39   #34
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

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because its a war game shev, by signing up to it you kind of resign yourself to the fact that yes you will be attacked and yes you will be roided. Theres a game for ppl who cannot accept they will be attacked and roided that is free to play. Its called farmville.
Thanks for your utterly pointless waste of bandwidth. I'm aware of what the game entails.

A war implies action on both sides, not just on the part of the attacker. War is attack and defence. Start considering both when you make your suggestions.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 20:41   #35
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

i did shev. go back and read my suggestions?
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 20:43   #36
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

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i did shev. go back and read my suggestions?
Except now you're saying it's unfair to remove prelaunch because attackers would be at a disadvantage. Apply it to both.

[Darkheart]If you want to play against an enemy that can't defend against you, go create your own server and play by yourself.[/Darkheart]

You're also completely ignoring all the people (in alliances generally considered to be the most active) that are flat out telling you that removing prelaunch would not mean they get up during the night to attack.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 20:44   #37
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

err wtf Light.. we were arguing that removing PL will reward the more active ppl (read: the ppl that CAN b around during nights, weather they are ppl from timezones allowing em to do it easily or euros that keep emselves awake for the time needed is not important here atm).. activity in this case, by me, was measured in the ability to b around during euro night to launch live attacks around 3-4 gmt.. and yes it should b rewarded imo.. the case that i want to make here now.. is that THE ATTACKS SHOULD b more spread out when we remove PL, due to not everyone (and yes i know theres a big portion of euro ppl that are not willing to get up around 03:00 game time) being able to attack together during night time.. so more TPs and such are being made, making em launch either earlier than later..

also why should less hardcore alliances launch earlier now Light? they could also launch later, after hardcore alliances have already launched, therefore also making the hardcore alliance`s def pools smaller (i know the def pool of ASS and Apprime cant b compared; and NO DISRISPECT for mentioning those 2 alliances please)

i know removing PL is a huge step either forward or backwards and is most prolly not gonna happen, however i liked the idea someone pointed out earlier, about making it maybe +2 or +3 for PL the most.. as Shev told, why should someone just prelaunch an att to someone that jgps himself/herself and stays up late or wakes up earlier in the morning to organize def as he/she cares about the rankings and the outcome of the round?
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 20:54   #38
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

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Except now you're saying it's unfair to remove prelaunch because attackers would be at a disadvantage. Apply it to both.

[Darkheart]If you want to play against an enemy that can't defend against you, go create your own server and play by yourself.[/Darkheart]

You're also completely ignoring all the people (in alliances generally considered to be the most active) that are flat out telling you that removing prelaunch would not mean they get up during the night to attack.
Sorry I don't usually quote but thats a little confusing so apologies if i adress your points wiht poor understanding, quoted so hopefully you see where im coming from even if i misinterpet ur meaning

Im saying attackers .. who can live launch at 3am... would be at an advantage. Attackers who cant livelaunch at 3am would be at a disadvantage. Unless of course the majority of people day launched meaning there would be an even greater number of fleets available come the morning to defend the 3am livelaunches. Im unsure as to which group you are refferring to though?

Im not entirely sure what the bit in [/DarkHeart] is meant to imply? Are you saying that is what im implying? If that is the case then no, if you want to live launch 3am then u still can even if pre launch is removed...? Please clarify what you meant?

Im not ignoring them at all Shev, im questioning (as myself) whether people would carry on playing if it was removed, since.. as i reasoned earlier.. prelaunch was added (amongst other reasons) so people wouldnt leave because they couldn't attack at night. Chicken and egg so to speak. To clarify that, the prelaunch issue came about coz Tietaja asked me, as a player who doesnt play ocnsistently, what would make me play consistently. and for me that was an even better prelaunch system. When i answered the question i accepted it was not to everybodys taste, just to people like me.

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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 21:01   #39
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

I'm standing up for the people who suffer because they can't get up during the night to arrange defence for attacks that come in greater numbers because of prelaunch.

The /darkheart is parody, but with a point to it. If you think a war game is just about you taking someone elses roids with no defence, then sure, make prelaunch even more powerful. It seems that this is the way you want the game, given you say you will quit if the people you attack are awake to defend against you.

If you want an even contest (you know, a war, a battle, a competition?) between defender and attackers, then prelaunch should be removed.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 21:07   #40
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

no shev i said the prelaunch system should be improved and evolved until such a time where a more dynamic system that encouraged day time attacking was introduced.

My whole involvement in this thread is answering why i dont play round after round. To me thats because theres fk all to do in the daytime, which is the only hours i can play (after work and weekends) So im very much in support of increasing daytime activity.. all of this is stated in my earlier posts in this thread.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 21:10   #41
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

if i remember it correctly DarkHeart, then ppl used to launch on odd times before PL was introduced in planetarion.. i mean yes, there were night attacks as we do have ppl that care enough to either wake up for those live launches or just happen to be in suitable timezones for that.. but i personally remember the morning and day raids very clearly.. thats what i would like to see coming back, all around the clock launches and more fleet movements on odd times..

atm its just as the following, attacks get (pre)launched around 3-5 game time, that time u organize intag defence for 1-2 ticks, after that u organize ingal def fleets to crossdef and thats basicly it..

with the attack launches spreading out, there will be no real disadvantages for the playerbase, weather ure hardcore or casual.. my opinion at least..

PS: i take the liberty to say that, concerning today`s alliances, there are kinda 2 alliances that could pull off the night time live launch thingy daily.. they are apprime and some part of active ascendancy.. other alliances would need to arrange later attack launches as they just do not have enough night time active ppl to do large scale attacks that are launched at night! (this dosent mean that alliances like ND, Osiris, CT wouldnt have a selected group of players that will live launch at night as well, just that this selective group wouldnt be big enough to pull off larger scale attacks AND the rest of the alliance would deffo need morning/day raids)
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 21:10   #42
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

Your "improvement" of the prelaunch system made it even easier for attackers and as such even harder for defenders. You clearly want a one sided roid swap with less chance of defence.

On another note, I launch attacks and have things to do during the day all the time, often successfully. You get out of this game what you put in, to a large extent.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 21:13   #43
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

yes Shev, it would encourage more landing. And i do consider it an improvement on the game in its current state

And though I do not like the game in its current state, i would play it more in its current state if this 'improvement' was made. Which is the answer to the question tietaja asked me.

and yes you are right you do get out of it what you put into it. Unfortunately that ethos has left us with what. 1000 players? So why keep it in that vegatitive state. Why not dumb it dowm?
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 21:15   #44
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

Well, I'd prefer a war game. Go play on a private server and remove defensive fleets if that's what you'd prefer.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 21:15   #45
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

no shev thats not what id prefer.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 22:02   #46
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

Honestly, DarkHeart, I'm having some trouble understanding what your issue is with this proposal. You say you want more daytime attacking. From what I understand, you agree that people will be more likely to attack during the day if they can't prelaunch for 3:00. Then what exactly is the problem with removing it?

Is it that there's about 50-100 people would attack at night even without prelaunch? That's nothing new, they already attack at night. The only difference is that they wouldn't get flakked by hundreds of less hardcore players who only attack at night because they can prelaunch. The amount of available nighttime defence wouldn't change if we removed prelaunch (it might even increase a little), but the amount of fleets launched would. reduce. If they launched out of sync with the rest of the player base, these 50-100 people would actually have a lower chance of capping roids than they do now.

And even if (let's assume) they got an advantage out of attacking at night, what's the harm in that? If they're willing to go that far to win the round, that's fine with me.

In any case it doesn't matter to a newbie if it's a top player or a lower ranked player who roids him, just that he gets roided.

P.S. This topic could probably do with a split from here.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 22:28   #47
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

Regarding prelaunch, I think there are some interesting arguments here.

From the attack point of view, I think there's a good argument to remove prelaunch for attacking. It would indeed force alliances to adapt to the needs of their members and encourage a more 'round the clock' approach. It would also stop gluts of attacks, and encourage more hitting on the counter and pinning opposition fleets down.

However, I think removing defending prelaunch would be a drastic and unnecessary step. First of all, it's the people who launch attacks who always have the impetus; they dictate when fleets move. If you remove prelaunch from attacking, then you have exactly this. Secondly, defending is a largely reactive activity, unless you're in a position of storing defence and asking people to come online at certain times to check in. But even so, once you've spotted an incoming, it's pretty obvious that you should be able to defend it, then go do something else. You're asking for a commitment that no one really wants and will just put people off, which is why you need prelaunch for defence. At the very bottom level you're asking for players to do more than they want, at the very top, you're asking for DC's to destroy themselves to actually defend their alliance effectively.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 22:46   #48
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Re: Hi from a Jagex fansite

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
ETA -1 attacks and defence in-cluster.
So you mean for example if you launch FI/CO (full eta research been done) on attack to a target on the same cluster it is then eta 7 in base and goes red at eta 6? meaning that then only FR/DE/CR/BS can be defended against. (ie fi/co class anti de/fr or fr/de class anti bs/cr on the same tick)

This would mean that Fi/Co incs can only be defendable ingal.
unless Prelaunched on the same landing tick is predicted.
Or you mean alliance eta -1 and cluster eta -1 are cumulative?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken View Post

- I don't have enough defence now, can I cover tick 3 and encourage a recall?

- If that defence is covering/partially covering my fleets for the third tick, will I be online to recall or will the losses pay off given what I gained before that last tick?

- How can I distribute my fleets across the galaxy in light of the respective losses and gains that can be made from missing the odd tick?

- Do I want to commit fleets for defending one or two ticks? Or attacking for one or two ticks?
Worth testing out but intially I would suggest 2 ticks consecutive attack and defense.
Also would it mean that the mission(s) being revealed on any types of scans?


Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHeart View Post
- increased bravery (and thus xp) for day raiding.
Worthy of testing out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHeart View Post
- Time anomalies or such stuff which allow faster travel time during certain hours (since the majority of the community is euro, preferably between 17:00 GMT and 00:00 GMT) .
Doesn't solve fleet logistic problems - does it apply to both attack and defense? or just attack? if it was attack only it would make Fi/co waves undefendable to ally (full eta research being done) meaning ingal defense only.
I do prefer the idea of XP being Increased for day attacks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHeart View Post
- prelaunches which do not show .
On a JGP scan I presume? ... Hell no
I still believe in no prelaunch for the element of surprise :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHeart View Post
- population actually being expanded to become a meaningful part of the game.
Here Here... just a question of how.

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Originally Posted by DarkHeart View Post
- CARGO PODS!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHeart View Post
- covert ops and scanning not needing tech trees (basically so any1 can do them at any time) -
Good idea in theory how would you propose implimenting this?

edit- I am not having a go at anyone, just to expand their ideas/suggestions in moredetails would be great
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 22:49   #49
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Re: Prelaunch (split)

Mz i dont have a problem with removing prelaunch if it would indeed force ppl to attack at day, the ppl accepted it, and the ppl did it.

My question is would they. Or would the impetus in attacking at night remain and force the ppl who cant attack at night away from the game.

I queried it on the basis that prelaunch was introduced for a reason, and historically, as far as im aware that reason was because the alliances attacked during the night, requiring their players to stay up / wake up.

Basically, prelaunch was a solution, a solution can only exist if there is a problem, and if that problem was ppl were forced away from the game then I dont see why removing prelaunch would be of benefit of the game, instead a more dynamic system to encoruage daytime attacking is required.
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Unread 4 Aug 2010, 23:02   #50
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Re: Prelaunch (split)

paisley the time anomalies would apply to both offense and defense. Just a way of speeding up the game during the hours people are awake to increase enjoyment. I like the idea couple with redirect missions so you could switch targs in the same gal if u have defence at a 1 tick penaly, to aid a battle which might be covered that you can swing in favour of the attack, but also then allowing the defence a tick to switch it up and try to recover the calc on the new target.

As to the removal of the tech trees for scanning.. i never found a problem with the old way of buying your scans in quantities and using them at your own disposal.. dunno why they ever changed that maybe som1 could advise me... the current system just increases the need for scan planets and detracts from the number of 'active' players.

p.s. where in Paisley? I lived in the Swan hotel opposite Ibrox for 3 months. That was an experience
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