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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 14:00   #251
qebab
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by DarkHeart View Post
Unless asc are suggesitng in this thread that Omen and ND are so rubbish they cannot take CT down without ascendancys help?
This is not true at the moment, no. However, if everyone continues to go for Ascendancy, then let's face it, what is the point of Ascendancy continuing to go for CT? If we're not even get some breathing space to fight our war, there's no point in it for us anymore. Then we might as well do what we have done in the past, just make some carnage for the fun of it. I believe that no one except for CT would benefit from such a situation, and let's be completely honest here, don't CT have quite a big advantage already?

I think it could easily escalate to a situation where CTs advantage, valuewise, politically, and when it comes to morale will make it hard for Omen and ND to catch up in time. Do you think that this is less likely than Ascendancy catching up if given room to fight out CT alone?

Quote:
I agree qebab, but my statement was based on there being 4 weeks of the round left, and I, along with everybody else, has no chance of knowing what those 4 weeks have in store. Yes CT certainly seemt to hold all the cards at the moment, but if you reduce it too the basic fact of 3 or 4 alliances fighting for number 1, then 3 or 4 alliances have a shot at number 1
I also react somewhat to this, you're asserting that CT seem to have all the cards at the moment, and you still justify that Ascendancy is being hit? Are you suggesting that CT have all the cards, but are a much smaller threat than Ascendancy?
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 14:02   #252
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

the alliances that agree to take down CT and when is irrelevant, any weight of numbers can bring down an alliance. Ascendancy could quit the game overnight and CT could still be bought down. That is kind of the point of my post.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 14:06   #253
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by DarkHeart View Post
the alliances that agree to take down CT and when is irrelevant, any weight of numbers can bring down an alliance.
This is pretty much untrue. I'm sure you can recall rounds where an alliance has run away with it, and then gotten hit by a large block way too late, only for the block to dissolve and give up early. I don't need to mention examples here.

Quote:
Ascendancy could quit the game overnight and CT could still be bought down. That is kind of the point of my post.
The problem with this statement, is that the weight of numbers you speak about, can not happen if there aren't enough people willing to chip in on it. And I honestly don't see why people would be any more interested in fighting ND/Omens war, than they are in fighting anyone else's war. Where will this weight of numbers come from?
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 14:12   #254
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

Ok. I'll concede the when part of the question... I agree, it cannot be left too late. As to the weight of numbers, again, I reiterate, I do not know or assume to know what the next 4 weeks have in store.

Posts in this thread and prior to this thread all seem to suggest that CT will crumble at the first sign of heavy incs. I will take your last post as somebody finally paying some respect to cT though
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 14:15   #255
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by DarkHeart View Post
I agree qebab, but my statement was based on there being 4 weeks of the round left, and I, along with everybody else, has no chance of knowing what those 4 weeks have in store. Yes CT certainly seemt to hold all the cards at the moment, but if you reduce it too the basic fact of 3 or 4 alliances fighting for number 1, then 3 or 4 alliances have a shot at number 1

Unless asc are suggesitng in this thread that Omen and ND are so rubbish they cannot take CT down without ascendancys help?
Asc are saying that if things go the way you proposed in your previous post (everyone takes Asc out), they will drag ND/Omen down with them, and CT will be able to outgrow the other one because a. They already have an impressive roid and score lead and b. CT won't actually planet target, they'll just galraid gals with Asc in them (how long they stick to the task is also pretty questionable...)

Either way, this results in Ascendancy dying, along with one of ND/Omen and the other being up against a CT with a huge roid/value lead which they just won't be able to bring down. It's ****ing simple. Your propaganda is terrible.

Also; a point on your "top launches" drivel; in the top 20 (not counting that skynet idiot so 21) there are: 1 vgn, 1 xvx, 1 CT, 2 DLR, 4 Omen and 11 Ascendancy. Make of that what you will.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 14:18   #256
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

As we spoke about in IRC kila, my post was not propaganda (or an attempt at propaganda). Just simple maths, so why you mention propaganda here is questionable?. Can you (or somebody equally motivated) provide a count of the top 100 launchers as requested though please.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 14:24   #257
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by DarkHeart View Post
As we spoke about in IRC kila, my post was not propaganda (or an attempt at propaganda). Just simple maths, so why you mention propaganda here is questionable?. Can you (or somebody equally motivated) provide a count of the top 100 launchers as requested though please.
I DID NOT HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH THAT WOMAN

I may do the top100 later if I'm bored enough
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 14:25   #258
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

man, my mother must be really ugly if an Asc is denying having sex with her.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 14:27   #259
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

assuming munin is correct in what alliances ppl are in (and that I counted em correctly ofc):
25 asc
17 omen
14 vgn
9 ct
8 xvx
8 dlr
4 factory
4 orbit
3 nd
1 ass
1 hells fury
1 hirr
1 rock
1 redemption
3 none/unknown
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 14:31   #260
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

It's more weighted towards the top as well. As kila said 11 of the t20 are ascendancy and 15 of the t30.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 14:34   #261
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

so asc and omen seem to be the most active launchers, with vgn and ct much of a muchness.

Certainly no suprises there, omen and asc have been at war since day dot. CT and VGN have been involved from time to time. The only suprise really is the lack of ND planets.

Anyways, certainly not evidence to suggest CT do not 'deserve' to win (in my head). Ty booji.

Aye JBG, thats why I wanted a top 100 count though, as it provides a better sample of the whole alliance
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 14:35   #262
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by DarkHeart View Post
As we spoke about in IRC kila, my post was not propaganda (or an attempt at propaganda). Just simple maths, so why you mention propaganda here is questionable?. Can you (or somebody equally motivated) provide a count of the top 100 launchers as requested though please.
The only maths you've talked about is launchers and the basic assumption that "if there are less alliances alone I have more chances to win".

Lets debate the latter point first. ND's best chance of winning is the denial route whereby they are involved in a conflict where they end up as a late victor. With less alliances involved to precipitate that war, the chance of ND winning actually goes down. Omen might want less contenders on the face of it, but their current political play involves eliminating two of the alliances that can probably help them to number one. So again, the chance of Omen winning goes down the more alliances are eliminated. The only alliance where your assumption actually rings true is Conspiracy Theory (of which a quick search Munin reveals you to be a member).

The first assumption in terms of launchers is an interesting point. All it reveals is 'effort'. I've been thinking about this stat for some time for my own purposes, but that's another story. Launches != lands. And lands where you cap asteroids and destroy value are what count, because they are the fruits of all that 'effort'. But 'effort' does not mean 'success'.

The maths for round 30 are below. To sum up, you've got your math, I've got the math.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken View Post
Because from their point of view its probably quite necessary. CT coming back to the pack is contingent on them being curtailed effectively in the very near future. People talk about XP but they know **** all on game mechanics because ultimately rank #1100 could land on #1 for massive XP gains, but the chances are very slim. While this is an extreme example it makes my point. The more the value lead extends, the greater CT's margin for error, the less margin of error for their opponents and the lower probability of profitable lands. As it gets better for the higher value alliance, it gets progressively worse for the lower value one. When value advantages take hold it's not a steady increase in terms of difficulty to overcome it - it's a runaway train.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 14:35   #263
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

if U would not accept it at all why ask for it?

I think dlr deserve to win, relative to numbers they have most T100 launchers
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 14:49   #264
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

the math i spoke of is 100 planets = 300 fleets. Simple math!

I'm intrested in it because like you, it also intrests me, because I like to know that I'm not the only one in my alliance putting effort in! But it is that effort on which im basing my perspective of 'deserving' to win. CT might be riding waves, balancing wars and gang raping asc, but its the effort of the alliance members that determine whether or not a particular alliance is undeserving. In that respect I must agree with booji. DLR ftw.

But I kinda disagree with your statment of landing to destroy value etc count. A fc attempt that has to recall due to an alliance also counts (for me), or succesfully defending asteroids allowing an allaince memebr to build more value also counts. You know what i mean?

Btw, i've never hidden that I'm CT, the first paragraph of my first post on this thread saw me mention my ct membership!
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 14:59   #265
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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But I kinda disagree with your statment of landing to destroy value etc count. A fc attempt that has to recall due to an alliance also counts (for me), or succesfully defending asteroids allowing an allaince memebr to build more value also counts. You know what i mean?
Not really, because the actual lands you make are what matter. If you pull an alliance around the place but they have the value to defend it, that effort offers no results.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 15:05   #266
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

indeed, which is what Im saying! CT have the value to defend, but only if the alliance members bother themselves to get up in the middle of the night and defend. Which, to date this round, the alliance memebrs have been doing, so in my head, I don't agree with us being undeserving to win
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 15:07   #267
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

Darkheart. They will never agree cos it is not in their alliances best interest. Incase you havent noticed, the vast, vast majority (if not all?) of people saying Asc have no chance, CT are too far ahead, you should all join up with Asc now, are, infact, Asc.

Do yourself a favour. Dont bother. We all see through it. By continuing down this path they are just making it harder for themselves. Let them dig their own grave, manipulate and lie, while the other 3 contendors get on with the game.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 15:09   #268
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

I know their all asc. I enjoy verbal banter with asc on the forums though
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 15:12   #269
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
Darkheart. They will never agree cos it is not in their alliances best interest. Incase you havent noticed, the vast, vast majority (if not all?) of people saying Asc have no chance, CT are too far ahead, you should all join up with Asc now, are, infact, Asc.

Do yourself a favour. Dont bother. We all see through it. By continuing down this path they are just making it harder for themselves. Let them dig their own grave, manipulate and lie, while the other 3 contendors get on with the game.
No offence but your series of posts throughout this thread must count as one of the most retarded efforts at rational thinking in the history of planetarion. I'm now going to say it in capitals for you just in case it helps this time.


NOBODY IN ASCENDANCY IS SAYING ASCENDANCY HAVE NO CHANCE OF WINNING.

PEOPLE ARE SAYING THAT IF NOTHING HAD CHANGED FROM THE STATUS QUO PRIOR TO THIS THREAD ASCENDANCY WOULD HAVE NO CHANCE OF WINNING AND CT WOULD BE VIRTUALLY GUARANTEED THE ROUND WIN.

THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE ASCENDANCY TROLL SQUAD, NOW OPERATING 24/7, 7 DAYS A WEEK, 52 WEEKS OF THE YEAR. MOTHER ****ER.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 15:13   #270
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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I know their all asc. I enjoy verbal banter with asc on the forums though
Hmmm fair enough. I suppose in our own way, we all like a little bit (or alot) or torture
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 15:14   #271
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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indeed, which is what Im saying! CT have the value to defend, but only if the alliance members bother themselves to get up in the middle of the night and defend. Which, to date this round, the alliance memebrs have been doing, so in my head, I don't agree with us being undeserving to win
This isn't about who deserves to win. This is about the political conditions that people think are necessary for victory.

As for Conspiracy's lead - it's been precipitated by two vicious conflicts between Ascendancy and Omen, for which both alliances have to take responsibility for. Or probably risk both losing.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 15:19   #272
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

im not entirely sure what this thread is about, it seems to have rambled from pillar to post, i merely responded due to all the 'ct doesnt deserve to win' posts on this thread lokken
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 15:29   #273
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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im not entirely sure what this thread is about, it seems to have rambled from pillar to post, i merely responded due to all the 'ct doesnt deserve to win' posts on this thread lokken
Then I'd ask you to have the courtesy to read it. It actually gets half decent by page 4.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 17:48   #274
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

i did read it! I meant wasn't sure if this is really an asc declaration, propaganda, politcs or what not. Maybe its all 3!
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 18:26   #275
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

It could be all three!

A little ad hominem here, but something you might want to think of, it is one of the reasons why I personally think that CT does not deserve 'a win'. And why I think they can be taken down with a coordinated effort

(it is not the exact log, it is paraphrased)
<DarkHeart> lol .. I will get roided Ronin also got BS/CR incs this tick ... I am doomed.

I hope this conveys my message enough.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 18:48   #276
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

haha maybe. TBH I really couldnt be assed that first night of ASC incomings, I mean, I gots 4 OMEN in gal who were suddenly allowed to defend me, but I didn't ask for a single defence fleet from the gal, just went and got bladdered and took my roiding on the chin as one of those things that happen. Besides we've had our roid lead so long when we lose them, we're in a strong position to fight off exisitng / hidden value

CT aint as emo about roids as it used to be ya know
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 18:52   #277
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

hmm p.s. no1 is denying CT can be taken down by a co-ordinated effort. Any ally can
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 19:11   #278
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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PEOPLE ARE SAYING THAT IF NOTHING HAD CHANGED FROM THE STATUS QUO PRIOR TO THIS THREAD ASCENDANCY WOULD HAVE NO CHANCE OF WINNING AND CT WOULD BE VIRTUALLY GUARANTEED THE ROUND WIN.
I honestly doubt that ND/Omen + partners would NEED ascendancy to help bring down CT.
Sure you guys would be usefull in a battle with them, but ND + help or Omen + help would most likely be able to close the gap without Ascendancy backing them up.
If I was Omen/ND HC I know who I'd prefer to battle it out with in the end and it most certainly wouldn't be Asc.
You guys have proven in the past that once you get going you're very hard to stop. If they would back out on sending you inc now and allow you close the gap with CT then they've almost certainly guaranteed another roundwin for Asc.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 19:24   #279
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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I honestly doubt that ND/Omen + partners would NEED ascendancy to help bring down CT.
Sure you guys would be usefull in a battle with them, but ND + help or Omen + help would most likely be able to close the gap without Ascendancy backing them up.
If I was Omen/ND HC I know who I'd prefer to battle it out with in the end and it most certainly wouldn't be Asc.
You guys have proven in the past that once you get going you're very hard to stop. If they would back out on sending you inc now and allow you close the gap with CT then they've almost certainly guaranteed another roundwin for Asc.
You seem to have missed the point that the mathematics of all this in the game mechanics dictates that if you don't work to address the value gap soon, or at least work to address the fact that the value gap is getting larger, then you definitely won't win.

Omen couldn't beat Ascendancy with help. Do they seriously think they're going to beat a Conspiracy with more value than them without help? There won't be a NewDawn or an Ascendancy to help them down the current path. While I doubt either would hit them out of bitterness, I think they'd more than happily hang Omen out to dry and make their life difficult. They could probably legitimately sit back and say "look, we gave you a chance weeks ago, but you turned it down". This is not about preference, but about what you have to do to surmount a value lead.

The difference between this round and the others is that there will be 4 viable alliances at the end. Obviously it will be possible for Ascendancy to win but spectacularly more difficult than on previous occasions. People talk about strength and ability but they matter toss all when game mechanics come into play.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 22:31   #280
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

That DLR alliance are the best launchers/most active and most decent people

+ When that DLR alliance tag up, according to my calculations, they will be a close contender at the top
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 22:43   #281
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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When that DLR alliance tag up
I laughed.
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Unread 8 Mar 2009, 19:11   #282
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

Wow, this thread sure went the wrong way.
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Unread 8 Mar 2009, 20:18   #283
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

I'm assuming looking at Sandmans that there has been a shift in politics? Anyone able to let me know whats happeing? Cheers in advance.
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Unread 8 Mar 2009, 20:57   #284
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

As far as I know there has been no shift in politics. Ascendancy is still napped to ROCK and hirr. CT and ND are napped as well, as are Omen and CT. I am not sure about Vengeance at the moment, they might also be napped to either CT or Omen.
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Unread 8 Mar 2009, 22:14   #285
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

CT and NAP'in is a community joke
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Unread 8 Mar 2009, 22:42   #286
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

pretty gay having ND and CT napped tbh
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Unread 8 Mar 2009, 23:10   #287
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
As far as I know there has been no shift in politics. Ascendancy is still napped to ROCK and hirr. CT and ND are napped as well, as are Omen and CT. I am not sure about Vengeance at the moment, they might also be napped to either CT or Omen.
Ascendancy napped to the suicide bombers in hirr??? Could you ask for more drama? :P
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 03:20   #288
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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pretty gay having ND and CT napped tbh
Considering gm is moaning about ND nearly overtaking them!!!
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 08:05   #289
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

What???? we are napped???
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 08:59   #290
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

i still lol @ JBG's rage out. Someone needs to hand him some valium.
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 10:06   #291
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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pretty gay having ND and CT napped tbh
Which one has more hidden value and which one can roid race better! Interesting times!
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 10:36   #292
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

Tune in again next week for PATV!
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 11:09   #293
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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CT and ND are napped.
as are Omen and CT.
I am not sure about Vengeance at the moment, they might also be napped to either CT or Omen.
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 14:12   #294
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

In the past 4 days the pressure has been taken off ASC. They have managed to gain nearly 20k roids and are just now 15k behind CT.
It's time for people to wake up and smell the coffee.

My prediction is that Ascendancy will win the round and everyone will turn to each other and say 'How the hell did that happen?'

Attack them now before they're too strong. I suggest one full week from all alliances. And ignore the we'll take you down with us threats.

WAKE UP!!!
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 14:16   #295
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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In the past 4 days the pressure has been taken off ASC. They have managed to gain nearly 20k roids and are just now 15k behind CT.
It's time for people to wake up and smell the coffee.

My prediction is that Ascendancy will win the round and everyone will turn to each other and say 'How the hell did that happen?'

Attack them now before they're too strong. I suggest one full week from all alliances. And ignore the we'll take you down with us threats.

WAKE UP!!!
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 14:28   #296
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

The round is between ND and Asc. ND because they are staying out of trouble and are based on xp, Asc because they have weathered the storm and will not get the level of incs they had before.

Omen do not have enough friends to win and CT have had too many crashers - and if you look carefully the prod is spread out between a few planets, not the core of the alliance..
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 14:45   #297
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by Zoro View Post
In the past 4 days the pressure has been taken off ASC. They have managed to gain nearly 20k roids and are just now 15k behind CT.
It's time for people to wake up and smell the coffee.

My prediction is that Ascendancy will win the round and everyone will turn to each other and say 'How the hell did that happen?'

Attack them now before they're too strong. I suggest one full week from all alliances. And ignore the we'll take you down with us threats.

WAKE UP!!!
^^^^^^^^

It really pains me to see that im not the only one seeing this happening, and that its still happening.
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 15:21   #298
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

Everyone who up until now thought Ascendancy wasn't in the running has been deluding themselves. We are, though our roid count is only an indication of that fact, not a cause. On the other hand, to say that somehow we are the universal threat is nothing short of laughable, just as it was last week. CT are still far ahead, and while we have made some progress in taking them down, it is looking more and more like we will simply get a new CT in the form of ND.

It is interesting to see that Omen are in fact the alliance who have most to lose in the scenario that Zoro is proposing (which in itself is pretty retarded, as said above). Omen have very little chance of winning at all when we're taken down. With ND and CT napped, Ascendancy is Omen's only hope in taking either or both of them down. That is not a threat, that is simply an observation. If Ascendancy gets taken down, it'll be between ND and CT (hilarity ensues), in which case we are no threat for #1 at all. If Ascendancy doesn't get taken down, and we team up with Omen to level the field with ND and CT, then it'll be between Omen, Ascendancy, ND and CT, in which case Ascendancy is not the threat, we are a threat. Which is what we've been saying all along.

On the bright side, Omen seem to have realised this, and have (to the best of my knowledge) ended their nap with CT, which will get in the way of both ND's and CT's plans.

I said before that I didn't know the status of Vengeance. Apparently they're napped to Omen, which might get us in a nice 1+2 vs 3+4+5 position
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Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 9 Mar 2009 at 15:33.
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 15:21   #299
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by Zoro View Post
In the past 4 days the pressure has been taken off ASC. They have managed to gain nearly 20k roids and are just now 15k behind CT.
It's time for people to wake up and smell the coffee.

My prediction is that Ascendancy will win the round and everyone will turn to each other and say 'How the hell did that happen?'

Attack them now before they're too strong. I suggest one full week from all alliances. And ignore the we'll take you down with us threats.

WAKE UP!!!
While I'm not going to say we had a bad day, there are still landings to be had, probably both on us and others, so it's a bit early too early to yell about insane winnings. Not to mention that a certain other alliance has gained more than 8k (That is, more than 8000) roids today as well. That's to say, not only have they caught up already, but they might well be thousands of roids ahead tomorrow already, while we're still 15k behind.

Numbers rarely lie, and while we sure have had a benefit from lighter nights lately, this graph is pretty interesting as well. Notice that a reasonable way to work out how much value an alliance should have, is to look at the area underneath their roidgraph. This does of course discount crashes, but then again, I think that hidden production (Which we have next to none of) more than makes up for this. Some CT planets have in the vicinity of 2 million value hidden in production.

In reality, we're as you say, 15 thousand roids behind, and the valuegap (And hence scoregap) to CT is much bigger than you can tell. Essentially, what I'm saying is that it would be utterly retarded to let CT run away with the round because everyone fears the alliance in the top 4 which has fewest roids, and lowest value.
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Last edited by qebab; 9 Mar 2009 at 15:30.
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 15:30   #300
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by GJN View Post
The round is between ND and Asc. ND because they are staying out of trouble and are based on xp, Asc because they have weathered the storm and will not get the level of incs they had before.

Omen do not have enough friends to win and CT have had too many crashers - and if you look carefully the prod is spread out between a few planets, not the core of the alliance..
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