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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 14:58   #201
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by Game^ View Post
Are you seriously suggesting now that Asc should say "HEY WE CAN'T WIN, BUT WE'LL TRY OUR HARDEST TO LET (insert random alliance) WIN"
No. I was suggesting that the posts recieved from Asc members are full of shite. Asc can win. Asc is trying to win. Asc havent given up playing for the win. I was suggesting that theyre talking forumshit, trying to look all big dog and going all in with a scary look in their face, so that noone would dare call them.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 14:59   #202
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by Zoro View Post
If we approach the final week of the round with ASC players on here saying how great they are and how they dominated politics again from an almost beaten position I will personally feel sick.
Whoever wins this will be pretty great. Except CT, maybe. If it ends up being us, I'm not going to play Mr. Humble, no. As it stands, I give us 1:4 odds (as do I Omen, CT and ND).


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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
No. I was suggesting that the posts recieved from Asc members are full of shite. Asc can win. Asc is trying to win. Asc havent given up playing for the win. I was suggesting that theyre talking forumshit, trying to look all big dog and going all in with a scary look in their face, so that noone would dare call them.
You think that if the gangbang on us hadn't stopped, we would have continued hitting CT anyway? What exactly are you accusing us of here? This is a genuine question.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 15:01   #203
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by Zoro View Post
Let no one be unaware of the fact that ASC can win this round. AND they can win it quite easily if everyone plays game for them (as usual).
If we approach the final week of the round with ASC players on here saying how great they are and how they dominated politics again from an almost beaten position I will personally feel sick.

DON'T LET IT HAPPEN
Fair opinion, I guess everyone in Ascendancy can see that point.

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Ascendancy must be constantly attacked for the next 2 weeks. Then CT, ND and Omen can have a shot at the title in the final 2 weeks.

Just my 2 cents
Also a fair opinion, except that the #1 contendors will be CT and, at a maximum.,either ND or Omen, depending upon which alliance we in Ascendancy decide to take down with us. "At a maximum" because CT have the delta edge over all other competitors already, and will keep / increase it even more over the course of the next weeks if everyone keeps on hitting Ascendancy. If nobody can see that, well, their problem.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 15:07   #204
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by Heartless View Post
Also a fair opinion, except that the #1 contendors will be CT and, at a maximum.,either ND or Omen, depending upon which alliance we in Ascendancy decide to take down with us. "At a maximum" because CT have the delta edge over all other competitors already, and will keep / increase it even more over the course of the next weeks if everyone keeps on hitting Ascendancy. If nobody can see that, well, their problem.
If people stop hitting us though, CT's chances will diminish, and ours will increase, pretty much evening out the playing field, imo (which brings us back to the 1:4 chance I mentioned earlier).
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 15:10   #205
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
No. I was suggesting that the posts recieved from Asc members are full of shite. Asc can win. Asc is trying to win. Asc havent given up playing for the win. I was suggesting that theyre talking forumshit, trying to look all big dog and going all in with a scary look in their face, so that noone would dare call them.
Could you please point me to the place where JBG said 'Asc cant win'? Presenting the case that Asc can't win if the present scenario continues and the actions they will take as a result, is not the same as saying "WE CANT WIN".

I can't understand why people fail to understand the point behind the thread, I'd have done pretty much the exact same thing in the circumstances.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 15:10   #206
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
If people stop hitting us though, CT's chances will diminish, and ours will increase, pretty much evening out the playing field, imo (which brings us back to the 1:4 chance I mentioned earlier).
Indeed. Even though without an interest in levelling the playing field it doesn't mean a 1:3 chance for the remaining 3 alliances that want to win. It's more like CT 60%, ND 35%, Omen 5% or something (at least for the current situation). ND and Omen are clearly betting on a very risky option right now.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 15:17   #207
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
What exactly are you accusing us of here? This is a genuine question.
Im not accusing anyone. Im simply saying, i dont believe the rhetoric you guys are spewing, Asc does not ever play themselves down unless for a reason. Asc is feigning death atm, to lul the other allies into a false sense of security. The Asc forum brigade is so good at propoganda that its almost believable.

My point is this. Asc will never be "out" of the race. They may be behind with roids and value, but the talent they have more than compensates for this. If Asc is given a break now, it will come back to haunt every single alliance competing for #1 this round.

Theres a saying here in Australia, "Dont give a mug an even chance." Basically it means dont let your guard open for a second, dont give your competitor a chance to come back at you, or else you will pay. In my opinion, Asc are no mugs, they are a class act, leave the door open for them and they will walk in and slam the door closed.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 15:21   #208
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by Game^ View Post
Could you please point me to the place where JBG said 'Asc cant win'? Presenting the case that Asc can't win if the present scenario continues and the actions they will take as a result, is not the same as saying "WE CANT WIN".
At what stage did i say JBG had claimed Asc cannot win?
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 15:21   #209
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
Im not accusing anyone. Im simply saying, i dont believe the rhetoric you guys are spewing, Asc does not ever play themselves down unless for a reason. Asc is feigning death atm, to lul the other allies into a false sense of security. The Asc forum brigade is so good at propoganda that its almost believable.

My point is this. Asc will never be "out" of the race. They may be behind with roids and value, but the talent they have more than compensates for this. If Asc is given a break now, it will come back to haunt every single alliance competing for #1 this round.

Theres a saying here in Australia, "Dont give a mug an even chance." Basically it means dont let your guard open for a second, dont give your competitor a chance to come back at you, or else you will pay. In my opinion, Asc are no mugs, they are a class act, leave the door open for them and they will walk in and slam the door closed.
Of course this entire argument fails down when you consider there are 4 alliances fighting for victory, not 1 v 1.

I fail to see how it is logical to deny an alliance any chance of victory when it also costs your own alliance that chance too.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 15:22   #210
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
At what stage did i say JBG had claimed Asc cannot win?

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;No. I was suggesting that the posts recieved from Asc members are full of shite. Asc can win. Asc is trying to win
I got that impression from this...
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 15:24   #211
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

And Game, i do realise the point of this thread. I am simply saying, beware, let asc up off the carpet at your own peril. Will anyone argue with this?
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 15:26   #212
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by Game^ View Post
I fail to see how it is logical to deny an alliance any chance of victory when it also costs your own alliance that chance too.
I never said that either. I said, for the time being, its in ND's best interest to not jump into a war with CT. If Asc fail in an attempt on CT, then ND can feel free to take off where Asc left off, in a better position, seeing how CT will be somewhat weakened, while ND has been growing.

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I got that impression from this...
My apologies. I will try to clarify next time. Myself, being myself, being rather cut to the chase at the best of times, not tend to fail when it comes to generalisations.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 15:29   #213
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
I never said that either. I said, for the time being, its in ND's best interest to not jump into a war with CT. If Asc fail in an attempt on CT, then ND can feel free to take off where Asc left off, in a better position, seeing how CT will be somewhat weakened, while ND has been growing.
There is one alliance you are failing to mention though...and that is the alliance this thread is mainly aimed at.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 15:34   #214
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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There is one alliance you are failing to mention though...and that is the alliance this thread is mainly aimed at.
I feel its rather arbitrary as to how Omen should act. Calling war pre ticks (which i think was a strong move) was about simple as it can get. If they go back on that now, they will lose the round, and deservedly so. From kowing the odd Omen HC ever so slightly, they appear to know how to play the game. I would not be looking for quarter in that direction.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 15:37   #215
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by JungleMuffin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Game
I fail to see how it is logical to deny an alliance any chance of victory when it also costs your own alliance that chance too.
I never said that either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
Theres a saying here in Australia, "Dont give a mug an even chance." Basically it means dont let your guard open for a second, dont give your competitor a chance to come back at you, or else you will pay. In my opinion, Asc are no mugs, they are a class act, leave the door open for them and they will walk in and slam the door closed.
This comes pretty damn close, though.

And you post this right after the above:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JungleMuffin
I feel its rather arbitrary as to how Omen should act. Calling war pre ticks (which i think was a strong move) was about simple as it can get. If they go back on that now, they will lose the round, and deservedly so.
So, you're essentially saying the following: Ascendancy should still hit CT, while still being hit by Omen and company. We'd be shit to shift focus to Omen to ensure they don't win the round too, so you'll have us doing something that benefits only other alliances?
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 15:43   #216
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
Simply, all i am saying is this. ND are in the position to kill 2 birds with no stones, as Kila so deftly pointed out.
:/
**** the ****ing birds.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 15:45   #217
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
If they go back on that now, they will lose the round, and deservedly so. From kowing the odd Omen HC ever so slightly, they appear to know how to play the game. I would not be looking for quarter in that direction.
PA politics are generally best decided by those open to change, as guess what situations change every night (*SHOCK HORROR*). Surely Omen themselves can see that the current path they are on will not lead to winning? If they won't change because of stubbornness, maybe they should get someone else to decide politics next time
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 15:48   #218
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by qebab View Post
So, you're essentially saying the following: Ascendancy should still hit CT, while still being hit by Omen and company. We'd be shit to shift focus to Omen to ensure they don't win the round too, so you'll have us doing something that benefits only other alliances?
You could possibly have Asc hit CT, Omen hit Asc, ROCK/hirr hit Omen, while having ND stay "somewhat" out of the action, and either gal raiding, or hitting ROCK/hirr. Appears reasonably balanced to me

As for being shit for hitting omen to ensure they dont win the round: Well you did it for the best part of tick 300-700, while CT established this gap. Dont cry over spilt milk. Asc created this themselves, by CT/Asc team raping Omen, so, as i see it, they should fix it themselves.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 15:50   #219
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
As for being shit for hitting omen to ensure they dont win the round: Well you did it for the best part of tick 300-700, while CT established this gap. Asc created this themselves, by CT/Asc team raping Omen, so, as i see it, fix it yourselves.
Obviously, we should have hit someone else, while Omen were taking our roids. I think you already know that Omen started that war, as you show here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JungleMuffin
I feel its rather arbitrary as to how Omen should act. Calling war pre ticks (which i think was a strong move) was about simple as it can get.
Quote:
Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
You could possibly have Asc hit CT, Omen hit Asc, ROCK/hirr hit Omen, while having ND stay "somewhat" out of the action, and either gal raiding, or hitting ROCK/hirr. Appears reasonably balanced to me
Regarding this, you're completely disregarding where CT hits. Do you think that Ascendancy will weather being hit by CT, Omen and VGN, and that ROCK/hirr will be able to sufficiently stunt Omen?

It doesn't really seem so balanced to me, but I guess we can just agree to disagree!
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 15:52   #220
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

Regarding to ur post, but PLEASE correct me if im wrong tho:

-CT is #1 and running away from the rest
-Omen and Asc fighting each other almost from roundstart with or without friends
-CT, Asc and Omen wanting to win this round
-CT holding the best cards at moment
-ND not aiming for the roundwin or really wanting to take part of these wars

In this order i would suggest JBG to contact and convincend Omen HC to cooperate with them to take down CT. After CT is down Asc and Omen can fight for #1 instead of posting an open message to Planetarion. I believe JBG have some great political, communication and convincing skilzz. If it was me i would spend my time and energy to try to achieve this before its too late to stop CT. If they are not willing, i would try again (how much do you want to win this round?) Last thing i would do is posting an open message to Planetarion and take the risk to offend, threatening or even Piss off certain alliances or people who are not aiming to win this round or want to take part of these wars...afterall its only those 3 alliances who aimed for a roundwin this round right?

That said, this is only my opinion...






Quote:
Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
Sigh, there are so many morons posting here it hurts.

CT are over 25m ahead, taking into account Hanzi's hidden prod calculations.
If either Asc or Omen want to win (both claim they do), they have to catch up that 25m deficit. That involves catching/destroying all that extra value, which is no easy task (value is hard to kill).

If Omen continues to roid Asc dry, they rely on Asc to hold back CT's growth before it becomes too big a deficit to pull back. But that war will never end, value is too hard to kill with Asc crashing so little.

If Asc stops targeting CT and goes for someone else (Omen), CT is allowed to continue to grow and increase their lead making it insurmountable. Asc can also peg back whichever alliance they choose to target, making it pretty much set in concrete that that alliance won't win.

There's a lot of respect between Asc and Omen for each other. Two great wars were fought on fairly balanced levels (lets not get bogged down in that discussion though) until the massacre/gangbang started. Both alliances have played their part in a great round and would thoroughly deserve a win.

CT has done jack shit all round. They've hopped around. They've balanced the war by switching, which is all very well and good, but it's all they've done. They've always been periphery to the main fight. As JBG said, this is their only play.

Both Asc and Omen want to win. Targeting each other will no longer accomplish this, they won't destroy each other (as already said, value is hard to kill) - meaning it'll never end, and they'll just allow CT to carry on growing.

Ascendancy sees this now. This is what this thread is all about. Ascendancy sees that in order for either side to win in this war, they have to set their differences aside for now. Allowing CT to win would be unjust as far as the amount of effort Omen and Asc have put in is concerned.

Unfortunately, if only one side switches away from the other, that alliance will be pushed out of the picture by the other, thus paving a possible route for their enemy. (This was discussed and general consensus was agreement a few weeks ago in another thread, but CT's lead is much more significant now and so any route to victory from the alliance not switching is less likely than it was then.) Neither side wants to pave that victory for the other, and that makes sense.

But both sides want to win.

There is only one option, and that is taking CT out now. They can no longer be left "for later" for two reasons, their lead is already too big and the fact that any Omen/Asc war has no real end because destroying value is so hard.

So let's refocus. Neither Asc nor Omen are the main opposition for #1 anymore. Take CT out now, and then maybe, maybe there will be time for another war afterwards.

I realise I have repeated the same points a multitude of times, but it really is very simple. I hope people will start to see reason.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 15:55   #221
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by Game^ View Post
PA politics are generally best decided by those open to change, as guess what situations change every night (*SHOCK HORROR*). Surely Omen themselves can see that the current path they are on will not lead to winning? If they won't change because of stubbornness, maybe they should get someone else to decide politics next time
How the path theyre on atm will not lead to winning escapes me. I think just cos 2 allies have more roids, doesnt mean they are the best alliances. I think wishmaster summed it up correctly when he said roids and value at this stage are over rated. Omen look like a solid unit. I dont think they are out of it.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 15:59   #222
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

Personally, I don't believe that Omen will be able to take down CT. Not fast enough anyway. This is what ND/Omen need Ascendancy for. Not to balance the sides (I'm pretty sure Omen and ND together are stronger than CT alone), but to unbalance them enough to push down CT fast enough to give all three a chance for #1, Ascendancy, ND and Omen.

I also think that Maverixx is wrong. ND are very much in the running, and if you think they won't take the chance to get #1 if it's presented to them, you're very much mistaken.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 16:00   #223
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Obviously, we should have hit someone else, while Omen were taking our roids.
You could have certainly thrown a few fleets at CT, much the same as Omen did. Then you wouldve been in the position of having Asc/Omen Vs CT. Unfortunately someone didnt have the forsight to think ahead. They chose to break Omen instead of weakening CT, which, apprantly, didnt happen
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 16:04   #224
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
How the path theyre on atm will not lead to winning escapes me. I think just cos 2 allies have more roids, doesnt mean they are the best alliances. I think wishmaster summed it up correctly when he said roids and value at this stage are over rated. Omen look like a solid unit. I dont think they are out of it.
Jungle, I'll try one more time, after that I am giving up on you...

Omen have decided they can't possibly let Asc have a chance to win.
Asc have decided that if Omen are that narrow minded they will hit Omen back in return.

Now in what world will any of this lead to Omen winning the round?
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 16:04   #225
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
Omen look like a solid unit.
Yeah right. That is why they are still behind Ascendancy despite us receiving so much more fleets of incoming. In all honestly, they lost twice against us. I fail to picture them taking down CT when we do not even see us taking down CT on our at this point, with the current amount of incoming.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 16:08   #226
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Personally, I don't believe that Omen will be able to take down CT without Ascendancy in the picture. Not fast enough anyway.

I also think that Maverixx is wrong. ND are very much in the running, and if you think they won't take the chance to get #1 if it's presented to them, you're very much mistaken.
Im not saying ND doesent have a chance for a roundwin, no one can deny that. Im only pointing out ND didnt Aim to win this round and therefor not eager to take part in wars.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 16:10   #227
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Jungle, I'll try one more time, after that I am giving up on you...

Omen have decided they can't possibly let Asc have a chance to win.
Asc have decided that if Omen are that narrow minded they will hit Omen back in return.

Now in what world will any of this lead to Omen winning the round?
No world will. Just possible on this one . <3

A great PA mastermind/tactician once said that the one thing he learnt from playing this game the last however many years, is that nothing is set in stone. Hmmm..

Who knows, even after this thread, we could still see Asc/CT Vs The Rest

Now, seeing as i can get a full nights sleep, i shall greatfully retire to your mums bed chamber. Ive had alot of fun tonight, ill let you kids destroy my posts while im gone. GLHF, nn cyas tomorrow
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 17:12   #228
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Give Asc what they want, OR, entertainment permitting, ELSE.
Give Asc a level playing field and they'll give everyone a chance to win, don't provide that playing field and Asc will find another field to play at, at their opponents' expense.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 17:18   #229
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
How the path theyre on atm will not lead to winning escapes me. I think just cos 2 allies have more roids, doesnt mean they are the best alliances. I think wishmaster summed it up correctly when he said roids and value at this stage are over rated. Omen look like a solid unit. I dont think they are out of it.
This is exactly where roids and value matter most; I have held on to a value rank of between 100 and 150 for weeks now with a roid rank of about 450, suddenly im seeing i cant sustain that and project i would have gone out of t200 value by Saturday if not for the stoppage; the reason is the bottom of the t100 now have 1.5k roids, I have 450, the gap between those with roids and those without is constantly expanding.
Have ppl not worked out why it is that the xp race is most important at the end? it is not because value matters less at all or that crashes are more forgivable, it is simply because the gap between the top and bottom is so much larger that big xp is easier to come by.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 21:05   #230
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

OH god.
OK Newdawn isn't a contender to win. I know it, you know it, ND knows it. All of you posting on AD & saying they're a contender doesn't make it so.
You can claim its a 4 horse race all you want, but it's not.

I'm not even convinced that CT is a contender. Hanging on to roids because no-one is trying to take them away from you, doesn't really make you a contender to win. I guess CT has a chance to win, but only if Ascendancy & Omen would both rather stop the other from winning then go after CT. That seems awful unlikely to me.
Both ND & CT will lose roids by the thousands if theres ever a serious concerted effort to go after them.

Theres a reason Omen & Ascendancy have been fighting it out all round, because they really are the only alliances with a serious chance at winning this round.

NewDawn & CT are just a huge chunk of XPs just waiting to happen. Ascendancy seem best positioned to harvest those XPs eventually & so imo they are still the favorites to win this round.

We've seen it time & time again in planetarion, the cream of alliances eventually rises to the top. This round is a battle between Omen & Ascendancy. Anything else is just smoke & mirrors.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 21:06   #231
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

Have you read this thread at all?
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 21:27   #232
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by MaVeRiXX View Post
Regarding to ur post, but PLEASE correct me if im wrong tho:

-CT is #1 and running away from the rest
-Omen and Asc fighting each other almost from roundstart with or without friends
-CT, Asc and Omen wanting to win this round
-CT holding the best cards at moment
-ND not aiming for the roundwin or really wanting to take part of these wars
-CT is #1 and running away from the rest
--> Not running away from ND, they've been catching up fast last few days and will probably be #1 over this weekend.

-Omen and Asc fighting each other almost from roundstart with or without friends
--> True, if they hadn't both of them would probably be twice as big as #3 at this point

-CT, Asc and Omen wanting to win this round
--> and ND...doh...

-CT holding the best cards at moment
--> CT are currently being gnawed at by Asc, which is the shittiest card to hold in PA, but doing better than I had expected at it. ND has the Ace for the time being, no incoming and awesome growth! (check hidden values..?)

-ND not aiming for the roundwin or really wanting to take part of these wars
--> lol of course they are aiming to Win, but you are right that they don't wanna take part of any wars...


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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 21:35   #233
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
If ND are to work with Asc in taking out CT, and at some point manage to be competitive value/roid count wise, which is a likely scenario, i find it highly unlikely that Asc would not, possibly along with hirr and ROCK, eventually redirect their focus toward attacking ND. In this situation, ND would have an enemy in both Asc and CT, possibly with more on top. Is it beneficial for ND to increase the number of hostile fleets they have heading towards their own planets?
The fact is they'll have them on their back pretty soon anyway given their roid count. So I'd say it's in their interests to get stuck in to CT with Ascendancy regardless. Funnily enough, Ascendancy are the only alliance out of this top 4 that have indicated that they want to work with NewDawn. So I'd say Ascendancy are very much something that would interest them.

Quote:
As ND sit now, they, for the most part, are able to sit off to the side and let u guys bring each other down. At some point if Asc want to win, which we are assured they do, they must attack CT, in which case CT growth would be stunted (if not reduced) enough with value/roid loss, for ND to step into the void left by 3 waring factions.
As I've said, this is just Angels thinking, and ND have tried this before and got massacred every time. Sitting back and hoping others do the work for you just gets you killed in the long run because you just get fat and complacent. On the other hand, they could be proactive and give themselves a chance of success. People seem to be very dismissive of them, but the fact is they've recruited some Denial players that have to be taken quite seriously. This is in addition to the good players they had in the first place.

Quote:
Another possible scenario is ND actually coming out on the wrong side of a war with CT or perhaps Omen. This in ND's best interest?
As I've said above, they're walking into far far worse at the moment, at least in the scenario I'm proposing they have help while they still have a decent roidcount to speak of.

Quote:
If these situations are possible, how is it beneficial for them to attack CT, especially when you guys will do it for them? Sure, you can say that it brings CT back to the pack, but that is inevitably going to happen anyways, thanks to you guys. Why should ND fight a war that you will fight for them?
Because from their point of view its probably quite necessary. CT coming back to the pack is contingent on them being curtailed effectively in the very near future. People talk about XP but they know **** all on game mechanics because ultimately rank #1100 could land on #1 for massive XP gains, but the chances are very slim. While this is an extreme example it makes my point. The more the value lead extends, the greater CT's margin for error, the less margin of error for their opponents and the lower probability of profitable lands. As it gets better for the higher value alliance, it gets progressively worse for the lower value one. When value advantages take hold it's not a steady increase in terms of difficulty to overcome it - it's a runaway train.

I don't want to discuss any other posts apart from the one below, because while some of the other arguments are very good, they're not exactly what I'm on about here. And I've spent a long day reading AD on my mobile watching people shit up my argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
No. I was suggesting that the posts recieved from Asc members are full of shite. Asc can win. Asc is trying to win. Asc havent given up playing for the win. I was suggesting that theyre talking forumshit, trying to look all big dog and going all in with a scary look in their face, so that noone would dare call them.
Ascendancy can win and Ascendancy are trying to win are not exactly revelations here. What I'm trying to point out here is that these are all conditional on the value lead of CT being curtailed and the round being opened up to a 4 alliance race again. The fact it can be opened up to a 4 alliance race is Ascendancy's only saving grace. Because at least when it goes to the negotiating table it has something to offer the opposition - a possibility of victory. In this round, no risks, no rewards. I can see why people might be paranoid about Ascendancy but logically, working with them is the only real option alliances outside of CT have.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 22:42   #234
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by Villeh View Post
-CT is #1 and running away from the rest
--> Not running away from ND, they've been catching up fast last few days and will probably be #1 over this weekend.
Are you serious? ND are going to close a 10mil score gap with a 5k roid deficiency over 2 days? What world are you living in? This isn't even counting CT's 10mil+ hidden prod...
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 22:53   #235
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by Villeh View Post
-CT is #1 and running away from the rest
--> Not running away from ND, they've been catching up fast last few days and will probably be #1 over this weekend.
Are you ****ing insane? Seriously.

...

Oh, you're CT. Weak attempt. Maybe you can take lessons from JM.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 23:08   #236
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by Villeh View Post
-CT is #1 and running away from the rest

-ND not aiming for the roundwin or really wanting to take part of these wars
--> lol of course they are aiming to Win, but you are right that they don't wanna take part of any wars...


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your description of ND is comical at best but you have mixed them up with CT as it is CT who are avoiding a fight and not ND
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 01:36   #237
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

what lokken said
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 04:02   #238
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
The following is a message that I sent, on behalf of ascendancy, ingame to an Omen and an ND HC. Given that I've never appreciated politics being limited to a set group of retards I thought I'd give everyone the opportunity to at least view what is going on at the minute, even if you play in alliances which do not allow you the opportunity to participate politically.
LoL, "This is a message I sent on behalf of Ascendancy"... what the hell, I feel like I'm in kindergarden again. You get hit, deal with it, and stop whining. Not used to it? Well, "imagine all the people", the ones in alliances below 6th place that get hit regularly by the pussies in the top six. They dont stand a chance, but when you get it you expect people to support you in the forums?

**** you

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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 06:09   #239
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
Because at least when it goes to the negotiating table it has something to offer the opposition - a possibility of victory.
From what i can see, Asc cannot offer any alliance something they cannot get elsewhere, ie an ally, or by their own hard work, ergo Asc has nothing to offer. (Note: this doesnt include threats, which ofc is always a possibility.) That being the case, its ludicrous not to finish off a potential round winner when u have the chance.

I think ill lave this thread alone now as its obvious what the Asc members want, and even more obvious why.

On a parting note, ill leave it at this:

Regardless of what Asc say, they will hit CT if they want to win, meaning you dont have to. If Asc chose to play BitterTarion, you have beaten them, and are 1 step closer to victory.

If you are 1st/Equal 1st on growth, you are in the box seat, no need to go off trigger happy and try to rush the win. Let the cake fully bake, and when the time comes, find a way to get more than your rival.

Good luck with the round guys and thanks for a great thread.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 06:15   #240
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Are you ****ing insane? Seriously.

...

Oh, you're CT. Weak attempt. Maybe you can take lessons from JM.
On a second read, you are right, that wasn't very thought through and is a far stretch, my bad! Should have kept it to that they have been catching up last few days nothing else.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 06:40   #241
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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On a second read, you are right, that wasn't very thought through and is a far stretch, my bad! Should have kept it to that they have been catching up last few days nothing else.
I told him to say that. He followed mz's advice and chased me up on IRC
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 10:34   #242
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
From what i can see, Asc cannot offer any alliance something they cannot get elsewhere, ie an ally, or by their own hard work, ergo Asc has nothing to offer. (Note: this doesnt include threats, which ofc is always a possibility.) That being the case, its ludicrous not to finish off a potential round winner when u have the chance.

I think ill lave this thread alone now as its obvious what the Asc members want, and even more obvious why.
Put simply, you aren't going to mash through all of that value unless you give Ascendancy a chance to do so. As I've mentioned there is a steep advantage curve in letting value advantages lie and you've said nothing to address this. Nor have you addressed the currently precarious position of NewDawn. What you propose is some kind of half arsed effort, that is less likely to work than actually achieve anything.

To be honest I don't care about what Ascendancy members post in this thread. As far as I'm concerned they're irrelevant to what I'm arguing here. The vast majority of them have no political experience and aren't even attempting to argue things from a balanced point of view.

Quote:
On a parting note, ill leave it at this:

Regardless of what Asc say, they will hit CT if they want to win, meaning you dont have to. If Asc chose to play BitterTarion, you have beaten them, and are 1 step closer to victory.
This is just nonsense, and going back to the froth spewing non-arguments we had previously. Bittertarion has nothing to do with it. I think JBG had enough of a stagnant situation that wasn't helping anyone unless you were Conspiracy Theory.

Quote:
If you are 1st/Equal 1st on growth, you are in the box seat, no need to go off trigger happy and try to rush the win. Let the cake fully bake, and when the time comes, find a way to get more than your rival.
In terms of value, this is still Conspiracy Theory, who are building considerably on their advantage. And you wonder why some people might sit back and go "hang on a minute.....". The main reason the gap has gone down is because they lost a large, high profile member. You would sit idly by and let a large chunk of value dominate the latter end of the round, with very little prospect of opposing it. You're not looking at all the parameters here, just taking a select few and using it to justify what seems to be a fair amount of paranoia.

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Good luck with the round guys and thanks for a great thread.
No, it has not been a good thread. The Ascendancy posters have been terrible, some of the other posters (although not all of them) worse and really it was only until someone properly took your nonsense to task that we got even half an argument out of you. Personally I have no idea why this thread was created as there are far better ways of achieving what this thread set out to achieve. I'm just the innocent bystander here. Post more like you have in the second half of the thread, you're more than welcome here.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 13:09   #243
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

all allies (providing they play by the rules) are 100 planets at most, 300 fleets at most. To say you and yours setting your alarm on the hour every hour through the night to check for incs, send defense and retals etc, is any more deserving of winning the round because your alliance x and im just a mere ct member is complete and utter bullpoop. Unless you have a 4th fleet that I don't.

The only valid point you have is that you have to run more defensive calcs than us! To quote gm, 'we maximise their incs, whilst minimising ours'. A great move by CT, whether you believe it to be pansy or not. Yet my point remains, you still only have at max 300 fleets as do we, so you are not really putting in any more effort, and thus more deserving, than us! On that basis it would all come down to the politics, and as Ascendancy 'appear' to have the worst politics at the moment, then you could suggest Ascendancy are the least deserving of all the allies [for the round win]

Thats my theory (conspiracy?) on the whole 'ct doesn't deserve to win' crap. I'd love to see a 'by alliance' analysis of the top100 launches page, with a breakdown of offensive vs defensive launches, with irrelevant launches removed (ie prelaunched fleets to save ships from incs, actually launching due to afk account holder). Only following that, and a review showing proof that any1 alliance have a significant lead in relevant launches over any of the other alliances, would I concede that any1 alliance deserves it more than a.n.other. And concede it I would, so rather than trying to tear this post apart, quoting select lines to use out of context to try and gain a 'score' against me, conduct the review and post it if you truly are permanently baffled enough to believe 'ct doesn't deserve to win'

Anyways, CT haven't won this round yet, there is an immense amount of time and mischief left to be had. Soon everyone will get bored of bashing Asc, and in time a block will form against CT, then every1 will get bored of bashing CT, and a block will form to stop another alliance gaining a lead. Rinse and repeat till round end!

Lets cast aside for now all this talk of hidden production, current politics and everything else, because all of that is not static, it is a bunch of variables with too many possible conclusions to account for with 4 weeks of the round still remaining, and though I will concede the very nature of you lot being geeks stems from overly active brains casting you away from popularity in school and thus you have ended up here wasting away your lives, you are not brainy enough to compute all the possible outcomes, even if ascendancy were to link their massed geek brains futurama judges style. Lets be clear on one thing and one thing only

Ascendancy
Conspiracy Theory
New Dawn
Omen

Any one of these 4 allies (politics permitting) can win this round from this point right here, right now. Each alliance (again politics permitting) can potentially have a 1 in 4 chance of winning.

Why, would anybody at this point want to stop bashing asc until they are completly and utterly removed from the equation, olbiterated from contention. Surely removing asc from the equation would give CT, ND and Omen a 1 in 3 chance of winning, and therefore improving those 3 alliances odds of winning the round. Please offer an explanation beyond 'but we want the chance to win too'

p.s. Not necessarily aimed at asc, its a general question, asc is mentioned as the alliance to completly obliterate merely because you are the alliance being currently gang raped.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 13:34   #244
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by DarkHeart View Post
Why, would anybody at this point want to stop bashing asc until they are completly and utterly removed from the equation, olbiterated from contention. Surely removing asc from the equation would give CT, ND and Omen a 1 in 3 chance of winning, and therefore improving those 3 alliances odds of winning the round. Please offer an explanation beyond 'but we want the chance to win too'
Because if you're NewDawn, you're dead and if you're Omen you won't have the value to overpower conspiracy, who would have an insurmountable value lead by the point you actually got round it. I think I've pretty much said that throughout.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 13:37   #245
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

an ND/Omen block + hangers on wouldn't be enough to take down CT?
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 13:42   #246
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by DarkHeart View Post
Why, would anybody at this point want to stop bashing asc until they are completly and utterly removed from the equation, olbiterated from contention. Surely removing asc from the equation would give CT, ND and Omen a 1 in 3 chance of winning, and therefore improving those 3 alliances odds of winning the round. Please offer an explanation beyond 'but we want the chance to win too'
Well, you're missing a point here.

Essentially, you're saying that there are 4 alliances with winning chances, and I'm not at all disagreeing with this. You then go on to say that since there are 4 alliances contending, then obviously the chance of any one alliance winning must be 1 / 4. That would be correct if the winning alliance was randomly drawn from this pool of 4 alliances. You then go on to claim that making this pool consist of only 3 alliances will increase the probability of any given alliance in the pool from 1 / 4 to 1 / 3. This isn't really true. It might actually make it less likely for one in the pool of three alliances to win, because, as mentioned already, this isn't a fair, random draw.

I personally don't think you can say that, under status quo, all alliances in top 4 have an equal chance of winning, and I also believe that while status quo lasts, one alliance in top 4 will drastically increase their chances, while another will decrease theirs. I don't believe that by removing Ascendancy from the contenders, you'll sit with 3 alliances with equal chance to win. I think you'll sit with either two alliances with an equal chance to win, and another one that's out of the contention, or you'll sit with one alliance that is vastly more likely to win than the other two.

Do you think this is unreasonable?
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 13:43   #247
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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providing they play by the rules
Support planets are allowed this round.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 13:48   #248
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

Darkheart: if hypothetically I was to respond to that proving asc to have launched more fleets than anyone else (likely true) you would then turn that round and state that is a good reason to thump us more (also likely true)

in the context of this thread deserving has not meant hyper-activity but a simple matter of sustained war fighting and p-targetting; even that is not more deserving per-se simply that it is recognised as a not particularly effeicint way of growing; only as a way of stunting the growth of a single opponent, while adding a burden to yourself vis a vis the rest - thus deserving dosen't mean activity, its only a way of consoling oneself for the working hard to defeat a strong opponent only to see it harming your general standing.

There is no deserving, or not
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 13:50   #249
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

I agree qebab, but my statement was based on there being 4 weeks of the round left, and I, along with everybody else, has no chance of knowing what those 4 weeks have in store. Yes CT certainly seemt to hold all the cards at the moment, but if you reduce it too the basic fact of 3 or 4 alliances fighting for number 1, then 3 or 4 alliances have a shot at number 1

Unless asc are suggesitng in this thread that Omen and ND are so rubbish they cannot take CT down without ascendancys help?
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 13:56   #250
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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I agree qebab, but my statement was based on there being 4 weeks of the round left, and I, along with everybody else, has no chance of knowing what those 4 weeks have in store. Yes CT certainly seemt to hold all the cards at the moment, but if you reduce it too the basic fact of 3 or 4 alliances fighting for number 1, then 3 or 4 alliances have a shot at number 1

Unless asc are suggesitng in this thread that Omen and ND are so rubbish they cannot take CT down without ascendancys help?
No, Asc are suggesting that Omen and ND cant take down CT and deal with Asc incomings at the same time. Same as Asc are struggling to take down CT and fend off Omen+Whoever else incomings.

CT are just a ticking time bomb at the moment, they'll be a point where it's too late to take them down in time.. All thats needed is for Omen and Asc to be in agreement of when that point is and act accordingly before it.
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