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Unread 6 Nov 2008, 21:07   #1
Fiery
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Racism

Since there is some confusion regarding racist gal banners and ruler/planet names I am going to attempt to clarify things for the community.
There is a zero tolerance policy. This means if you select a racist gal banner or a racist ruler/planet name, your account will be closed. No warnings. It is immediate closure.
If you are not sure if your selection is racist or not, please, visit #multihunters on IRC and we will be more than happy to assist you.

Thank you
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Unread 6 Nov 2008, 22:46   #2
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Re: Racism

I'll add that the racism on the forums will also lead to being banned on the forums.

As a general rule to posting, if you think something might be construed as racist play it safe and don't post it. Alternativly run it past a forums mod first.
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Unread 6 Nov 2008, 23:56   #3
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Re: Racism

Define "racism" please. It would be helpful in the context to explain why PICTURE 1 is considered racist. Perhaps we could also be advised as to whether PICTURE 2 would be considered racist. If not, why not?
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Unread 7 Nov 2008, 00:05   #4
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Re: Racism

Right - for the forums, picture 1 is certainly out of bounds. That is an overtly racist ritual that would certainly not be permitted. I've deleted the link to it.

Picture 2 is not something I would consider racist, in fact much the opposite - it's more making fun of racists for the stupid views they hold. I'm sure there are some people who would find it offensive though. I'm not sure i'd be inclined to moderate it if it was posted in the right context on a non-PA related forum. In game, anything that's mildly offensive is likely to be taken down, because rules are generally stricter there. I've deleted the link to picture 2 too, as to be honest the link seemed rather dubious and I had no desire to find out what it was.
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Unread 7 Nov 2008, 00:16   #5
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Re: Racism

I can't believe you people are comparing racism to an uncaptioned photograph of a KKK ritual. To say I view it as moronic is an understatement.

Anyone who censors that photo is no better than a squealing fundamentalist raging at the publication of a caricature of their God. It actually makes me more than a little annoyed to see the genuine issue of racism in our society reduced to this shit.
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Unread 7 Nov 2008, 00:43   #6
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
I can't believe you people are comparing racism to an uncaptioned photograph of a KKK ritual. To say I view it as moronic is an understatement.

Anyone who censors that photo is no better than a squealing fundamentalist raging at the publication of a caricature of their God. It actually makes me more than a little annoyed to see the genuine issue of racism in our society reduced to this shit.
The first photo isn't as far as I'm concerned racist. It could however be used in a racist manner and for me it would come down to the context it was used in.

As a galaxy image I think you would have to delete it as it could come across racist in the context that a galaxy image imposes. A caption however might change and soften the negative context.

On the forums, in the way you used it however I don't believe it is racist in the slightest. As such I would have left it personally
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Unread 8 Nov 2008, 01:30   #7
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Re: Racism

I for one appreciate the heavy handed moderation of the PA administration. This is a war game, not a place to offend people or hurt their feelings.

I am frightened of historical facts. I am also fearful of pictures from the past because sometimes they're b*ack and whi*e! We need to protect our young 12 year old PA players from seeing such hate filled garbage. I am sure we can all see the value in quick in game deletions and banning for anything that can be considered remotely offensive to anyone.

Kudos all around.
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Unread 8 Nov 2008, 02:02   #8
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Re: Racism

If somebody is expressing hatred or discrimination to any particular race/creed then steps should be taken to counter, prevent or stop this whether it's on the internet or otherwise.

However, the line that one draws between racism and something that may just be a little politically incorrect is somewhat blurry. To save having to make the distinction, it's easier for things to be in black and white than to assess greyscale.
 
Unread 8 Nov 2008, 12:44   #9
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Re: Racism

People in charge of the game don't want to be involved in lawsuits either I think... find it idiotic rather than offensive, the law will apply all the same.
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Unread 8 Nov 2008, 16:13   #10
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan View Post
I am sure we can all see the value in quick in game deletions and banning for anything that can be considered remotely offensive to anyone.
I agree with this poster completely.

I think it's also worth the bits for the Multihunting crew to pay particular attention to whether a sign up name used to tag you to a (more or) less legit database the definition of which has been left vague at best for the user population is in fact valid or not. It's rather important to root the freebie accounts for false user information.
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Unread 8 Nov 2008, 18:32   #11
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Re: Racism

on another note, and i'm completely neutral in this whole thing, but isn't racism taught/learned? with that in mind, aren't the pictures historical in nature? i understand that they probably don't belong in this environment, but banning them for being racist only serves to teach hatred and bias about what the pictures or events portray - not the historical meaning. with that in mind, is there a way to just deem them 'inappropriate' or something instead of always having a white/black/jewish/etc discussion about it?
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Unread 8 Nov 2008, 22:18   #12
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Re: Racism

I have heavilly moderated this thread as it has gone off topic and got out of hand.

http://forums.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=194799 details how the mh team deal with various thigns in game.
If anyone has any questions on this please start a new thread asking them and keep this thread on the topic of racism.
This thread clarifies the previous statement of severe action would be taken on any racist content.

If anyone wish to make any complaints about a member of PATeam and how they enforce the rules they should contact Yv.(Yvrelle on forums)
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Unread 8 Nov 2008, 22:54   #13
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal View Post
I'll add that the racism on the forums will also lead to being banned on the forums.

As a general rule to posting, if you think something might be construed as racist play it safe and don't post it. Alternativly run it past a forums mod first.
i reported somebody for making a racist comment on the forums a couple of weeks ago, as far as iam aware said person is still posting on these forums.
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Unread 8 Nov 2008, 23:28   #14
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Re: Racism

You all smell.
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 00:01   #15
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Re: Racism

I'm not racist, i hate everyone :/
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 00:07   #16
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mek View Post
i reported somebody for making a racist comment on the forums a couple of weeks ago, as far as iam aware said person is still posting on these forums.
Was it horn?

If so he was banned, not a severe ban as he was trying to be funny and stepped over the line but he was given a ban (plus warnings that if he wasn't careful he would find the ban being longer). As I have said here context and tone is important when it comes to racism. I know alot of do gooders seem to think that its racism if you say anything that could be considered slightly negative BUT thats not being racist. Its only racist if the context and tone make it so. A swastika is not racist, a picture of the KKK is not racist, the St Georges cross is not racist, the N word is not racist (despite it being blocked here), an attempt at humour/satire is not racist. They only become racist if used as in a racist context and tbh anyone who takes offence to any of these things or the millions of other such things needs to grow thicker skin and stop being so petty because if we keep going down this PC path we wont be able to say or do anything incase we offend someone. And ultimately it only hinders the battle against real racism and imho actually increases racism by increasing resentment against ethnic minorities

Interesting PATeam weren't bothered about the racism in that post. They were more concerned with the fact that Lokken made a light hearted reply and the fact that I had the cheek to take 7 hours away from the forums to do PAID work. Go figure
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 00:11   #17
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey View Post
Was it horn?
It can't be horn, as he is the best poster on the internet.
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 00:26   #18
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey View Post
Was it horn?

If so he was banned, not a severe ban as he was trying to be funny and stepped over the line but he was given a ban (plus warnings that if he wasnt careful he would find the ban being longer)

Interesting PATeam weren't bothered about the racism in that post. They were more concerned with the fact that Lokken made a light hearted reply and the fact that I had the cheek to take 7 hours away from the forums to do PAID work. Go figure
no it was VenoX, it was on Denials recritment post.
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 00:33   #19
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael View Post
I'm not racist, i hate everyone :/

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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 00:34   #20
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mek View Post
no it was VenoX, it was on Denials recritment post.
thanks for letting me know. In this instance the post was deleted, I would say the content is fairly harmless and as such a permenant ban was not required - however I think a short ban is needed to ensure venox knows that racism is not acceptable. This has now been done. If he does not get the idea, the next ban will be permanent.
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 00:36   #21
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Re: Racism

Mek is a snitch on the internet. It is good to know that we can now add racism to Denial's long list of accomplishments though.
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 00:47   #22
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken View Post
Right - for the forums, picture 1 is certainly out of bounds. That is an overtly racist ritual that would certainly not be permitted. I've deleted the link to it.
CONTEXT GOD DAMN IT!

I think I know what the picture in question was, but deleting the link to it is stupid. It's comparable to deleting links to pictures of concentrations camps because 'they promote nazism'.

And the same should be accounted for ingame. As Fiery says, go check it out if it's an edge case.

The aforementioned picture with the caption 'Remember past crimes'* is completely different contextually than if captioned 'OMGWTFBBQ'.

A picture of Hitler isn't racist until you add 'My hero <3'.

* Even though this might still not be appropriate for ingame usage. That's not really for me to decide.
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 00:48   #23
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Re: Racism

Quote:
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no it was VenoX, it was on Denials recritment post.
hmm I didn't get that report. I'm sure i am supposed to as I get GD and AD ones. Stupid forum software
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 01:01   #24
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned View Post
A picture of Hitler isn't racist until you add 'My hero <3'.
Is that even racist? People can be heros on different levels and for all the bad Hitler did there's a side when it comes to the way he turned Germany around economically that is hard not to respect. So I even then I think it would depend on the photo and the overall context that the picture and comment are used
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 01:06   #25
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey View Post
Is that even racist? People can be heros on different levels and for all the bad Hitler did there's a side when it comes to the way he turned Germany around economically that is hard not to respect. So I even then I think it would depend on the photo and the overall context that the picture and comment are used
Let's face it, turning Germany around economically pales in significance next to the methodical extermination of almost 7 digits of 'inferior' persons. I'd naturally assume anyone who declared Hitler to be their hero was totally OK with that and believed in the superiority of the aryan race.

(And hey, if you do, that's ok with me. Just stay away from me and don't hurt anybody because of your insecurities.)

Edit: But really the entire discussion is pretty much fallacious. Neither of these events were even majorly to Hitler's credit. In as much as he is a symbol of either one, he's more a symbol of the eradication of undesirables than he is a symbol of Germany's economic rebound in the 30s.

Last edited by Banned; 9 Nov 2008 at 01:12.
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 01:20   #26
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned View Post
CONTEXT GOD DAMN IT!

I think I know what the picture in question was, but deleting the link to it is stupid. It's comparable to deleting links to pictures of concentrations camps because 'they promote nazism'.

And the same should be accounted for ingame. As Fiery says, go check it out if it's an edge case.

The aforementioned picture with the caption 'Remember past crimes'* is completely different contextually than if captioned 'OMGWTFBBQ'.

A picture of Hitler isn't racist until you add 'My hero <3'.

* Even though this might still not be appropriate for ingame usage. That's not really for me to decide.
This post by me was deleted and it might be useful for your reference:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooling
Ps: there's something a little silly about banning racism on the internet.
I agree. I think many of us have moved on from labelling racists as "offensive" but simply thinking of them as "completely idiotic" and people to poke fun at.

Unfortunately, I have rules to enforce because a lot of people haven't moved on and ultimately I can see why the people in charge of the game have to cater for everyone. My personal opinion on the issue is irrelevant. So until people change, or the rules change, I'm still going to use the banstick.
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 01:46   #27
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Re: Racism

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Originally Posted by Banned View Post

Edit: But really the entire discussion is pretty much fallacious. Neither of these events were even majorly to Hitler's credit. In as much as he is a symbol of either one, he's more a symbol of the eradication of undesirables than he is a symbol of Germany's economic rebound in the 30s.
well i'm afraid this is still pretty much just your opinion buddy. hitler had a lot of very solid economic planning to back up his admittedly heavy handed approach to undesirables. if it hadn't been for the PR brigade (i.e. the allies) marching in on a guy who basically just wanted to make the world a better place, we might have seen the dawn of a very different, and possibly better world. thanks for listening.
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 01:50   #28
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Re: Racism

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People in charge of the game don't want to be involved in lawsuits either I think... find it idiotic rather than offensive, the law will apply all the same.
"hi i'd like to file a law suit. so... yeah ok, i play this internet game, and in it you've got these... well... 'galaxys', and each one has a picture? ok so, each one has a picture linking to a picture somewhere on the internet, and... well..
this one guy, who was sending a massive fleet at me, well i clicked on his galaxy. and there it was. a picture i consider racist. how much money can i expect from the company that hosts this game?"
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 04:13   #29
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Re: Racism

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Mek is a snitch on the internet. It is good to know that we can now add racism to Denial's long list of accomplishments though.
lol achilles, its not like that (hence why i refrained from mentioning names without being prompted to)

<3 ya though
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 23:15   #30
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Re: Racism

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hitler had a lot of very solid economic planning to back up his admittedly heavy handed approach to undesirables.
I've bin away too long to know if thats sarcasm or not. but

I just read this thread whilst watching a Chris Rock stand up. Begs the question. If a black GC put up a gal banner with the naughty n word in it would it be considered racist I know... age old arguement but fk it I can't be assed typing out the whole arguement about malicious and satirical racism so I'll just fall back on that cliche and leave the argument to people who actually know wht sparked this thread in the first place
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Unread 10 Nov 2008, 04:05   #31
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Re: Racism

I love horn.
Now I have 2 heroes starting with H.
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Unread 10 Nov 2008, 06:46   #32
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Re: Racism

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If a black GC put up a gal banner with the naughty n word in it would it be considered racist
if hitler was a jew, would you not consider him racist?


*edit* pretty drastic comparison there, but theres a point somewhere..
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Unread 10 Nov 2008, 07:42   #33
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Re: Racism

if hitler was a jew would he have been the architect of the jewish holocaust? Not a drastic comparison, more like an ill conceived comparison.

Chris Rock is black and therefore its acceptable for him to use the n word. You could even take it further by looking at that despair.com poster with the picture of all the white presidents, obama at the end and the caption 'Combo Breaker'. For me that would be racist as it is a comment based on the colour of someones skin, but i would also class it as satirical rather than malicious, and therefore (to me) acceptable.

Thats the point I was trying to make
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Unread 10 Nov 2008, 07:51   #34
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Re: Racism

Fools.
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Unread 10 Nov 2008, 10:36   #35
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Re: Racism

if someone puts up a banner "I hate Xans' will it be considered racist ?
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Unread 10 Nov 2008, 10:46   #36
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Re: Racism

My humble opinion is that this is a game. How hard can it be to try to avoid stepping on peoples toe's. Who am I to say what people should think or how they should react to a picture or words? Allthough I suppose I could be a target for racism, I couldn't care less what people (like Horn or Wishmaster for instance) feels about me, but that doesn't mean that others will feel the same.

I honestly can't see how the game would change by people just using relatively harmless banners and galnames. I think there are better forums then this to express views that can be hurtful to others.
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Unread 10 Nov 2008, 10:47   #37
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHeart View Post
if hitler was a jew would he have been the architect of the jewish holocaust? Not a drastic comparison, more like an ill conceived comparison.

Chris Rock is black and therefore its acceptable for him to use the n word. You could even take it further by looking at that despair.com poster with the picture of all the white presidents, obama at the end and the caption 'Combo Breaker'. For me that would be racist as it is a comment based on the colour of someones skin, but i would also class it as satirical rather than malicious, and therefore (to me) acceptable.

Thats the point I was trying to make
If a words offensive then they are offensive if anyone says it no matter what their skin colour. When black people throw that excuse around about their use of the word its disgraceful. They either hate the word and don't use it ever as using it encourages others to use it OR they have no issue with the word and as long as its not used in a derogatory way (Which is the same for any word in existence) it shouldn't matter if the person black, white, purple or orange.

TBH I also don't see why anyone has an issue with the word itself or with the other n word. The accepted term atm is Black. Negro however is Spanish for Black and niger which is the basis of the N word is Latin for black so it seems a little silly that anyone has issues with either word just because in the past they have been used in a derogatory way. What next in 10 years time using the word Black in anyway will be considered offensive unless your black because people have used Black in a derogatory way?
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Unread 10 Nov 2008, 14:51   #38
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Re: Racism

You can't unsee it.
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Unread 10 Nov 2008, 16:50   #39
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Re: Racism

Can we ban then communistic symbols aswell, just in case? Cause communism is equal to nazism.
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Unread 10 Nov 2008, 16:52   #40
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Re: Racism

i support that one!
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Unread 10 Nov 2008, 17:25   #41
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Re: Racism

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Originally Posted by OlaTa View Post
Can we ban then communistic symbols aswell, just in case? Cause communism is equal to nazism.
Whatever else you can say about it communism wasn't racist.
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Unread 10 Nov 2008, 19:36   #42
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Re: Racism

Was he not trying to be sarcastic?
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Unread 11 Nov 2008, 00:13   #43
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Re: Racism

It has recently come to my attention that not enough people understand how great racism has been to our lives. Each day we wake up and likely have one or more racism lying at the foot of our beds. It is wonderful to be able to wake up and smile each morning because of this.

Social & Cultural Factors

racism has a large role in American Culture. Many people can often be seen taking part in activities associated with racism. This is partly because people of most ages can be involved and families are brought together by this. Generally a person who displays their dislike for racism may be considered an outcast.

Economic Factors

It is not common practice to associate economics with racism. Generally, racism would be thought to have no effect on our economic situation, but there are in fact some effects. The sales industry associated with racism is actually a 2.3 billion dollar a year industry and growing each year. The industry employs nearly 150,000 people in the United States alone. It would be safe to say that racism play an important role in American economics and shouldn't be taken for granted.

Environmental Factors

After a three month long research project, I've been able to conclude that racism doesn't negatively effect the environment at all. A racism did not seem to result in waste products and couldn't be found in forests, jungles, rivers, lakes, oceans, etc... In fact, racism produced some positive effects on our sweet little nature.

Political Factors

Oh does racism ever influence politics. Last year 5 candidates running for some sort of position used racism as the primary topic of their campaign. A person might think racism would be a bad topic to lead a campaign with, but in fact with the social and environmental impact is has, this topic was able to gain a great number of followers. These 5 candidates went 4 for 5 on winning their positions.

Conclusion

racism seem to be a much more important idea that most give credit for. Next time you see or think of racism, think about what you just read and realize what is really going on. It is likely you under valued racism before, but will now start to give the credited needed and deserved.

Footnotes

racism researched in wikipedia. racism @ dictionary.com
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Unread 11 Nov 2008, 00:15   #44
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Re: Racism

All and everything is just evil!
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Unread 11 Nov 2008, 00:58   #45
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Re: Racism

We Want Change!

=)
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Unread 11 Nov 2008, 09:48   #46
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned View Post
CONTEXT GOD DAMN IT!

I think I know what the picture in question was, but deleting the link to it is stupid. It's comparable to deleting links to pictures of concentrations camps because 'they promote nazism'.
My view on that is that this is a space based webgame, played by an extremely wide range of people, and probably a fair few young children.

It is not an edgy news journal with a pressing need to protect its journalistic integrity.

That coupled with the fact that many of the more "amusing" (and I use that word in the most sarcastic sense I can possibly muster) members of the community will immediately look at this much needed step as an open invitation to push the rules as far as possible just for the hell of it.

I mean look at this very thread, its a simple message from Firey stating that the appallingly lax status quo is finally being addressed and what do you get?

Lame attempts at humour, based on the subject of racism.

Well I don't find them funny, and I am extremely glad that something is being done about this. Hopefully homophobia will be addressed too.

Sadly nothing will ever (can ever?) be done about this on IRC which is the real problem area as far as this subject is concerned.
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Unread 11 Nov 2008, 10:33   #47
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Re: Racism

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Originally Posted by HRH_H_Crab View Post
My view on that is that this is a space based webgame, played by an extremely wide range of people, and probably a fair few young children.

It is not an edgy news journal with a pressing need to protect its journalistic integrity.

That coupled with the fact that many of the more "amusing" (and I use that word in the most sarcastic sense I can possibly muster) members of the community will immediately look at this much needed step as an open invitation to push the rules as far as possible just for the hell of it.

I mean look at this very thread, its a simple message from Firey stating that the appallingly lax status quo is finally being addressed and what do you get?

Lame attempts at humour, based on the subject of racism.

Well I don't find them funny, and I am extremely glad that something is being done about this. Hopefully homophobia will be addressed too.

Sadly nothing will ever (can ever?) be done about this on IRC which is the real problem area as far as this subject is concerned.
why should we care if u find it funny?
The internet is made for promoting hate and racism, not for getting along.
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 11 Nov 2008, 10:43   #48
HRH_H_Crab
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Re: Racism

Yes.
Very good point.
It was my mistake, if I had never wanted to suffer indignation I should never have pointed my browser at:

pirate.4chan-lite-atarion.com

I can assure you that every time I do so the urge to repeat the action diminishes considerably.
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Unread 11 Nov 2008, 10:51   #49
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Re: Racism

PA should be G-rated. IRC too, while we're at it.
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Unread 11 Nov 2008, 11:12   #50
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRH_H_Crab View Post
My view on that is that this is a space based webgame, played by an extremely wide range of people, and probably a fair few young children.
The great thing about racism is that if you don't talk about it, it goes away.

Quote:
That coupled with the fact that many of the more "amusing" (and I use that word in the most sarcastic sense I can possibly muster) members of the community will immediately look at this much needed step as an open invitation to push the rules as far as possible just for the hell of it.
This is what is known as a culture clash. If the powers that be want to redefine what is acceptable that's fine, but there are better ways to do it than force.

Quote:
Well I don't find them funny, and I am extremely glad that something is being done about this. Hopefully homophobia will be addressed too.
Yeah, an online game is definitely the place to start combatting homophobia.

Quote:
Sadly nothing will ever (can ever?) be done about this on IRC which is the real problem area as far as this subject is concerned.
What problem? Things are the way they are because a self-selecting group has made it that way. If you want to change it, you're doing the right thing. Talk about it. Make people understand that you'd rather things were different. Believe it or not, that is an actual functioning way to communicate. Banhammers are not. The people you're talking about have shown time and time again that they care more about its freedom to flaunt the rules than their ability to play the game or post on the forums.

The correct way to fix this problem is to engage them. This thread does that, the banhammer does not.
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