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Unread 20 May 2008, 20:24   #1
DarkHeart
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Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

Ok so, traditionally the round starts on like a Friday night, roughly 7-8pm game time. We sit here like lemons all weekend long initing like 2 rocks per tick or something soft, and we get out of protection sumtime monday evening and can finally attack

WHOOP HOLLA

ok ok... then those of us that work (these days, a lot of us!) have to miss out on all the improtant tick by tick production, countering, fleet addditions of our virgin planets... i dunno, to me it always feels that str8 out of protection and the chaos that ensues is deadly critical tick by tick to be in charge of ur planets, be conncted to irc to hook up with the very limited amount of scans available etc.

Now I understand the thinking of having the round start on the friday night, that gives us all time over the weekend to follow tick plans, fast start etc

BUT

imo (yeah jsut my opinion though vladel bless him give it a big whoop holla) this thinking is outdated and low tech! We start on a friday night so the most ppl can get access over the weekend....well this may have been true like 8 rounds ago or something, but with the advent of accesible mobile phone internet connectivity, i dont feel it is neccessarily true anymore. I can use my phone (and its internet really is the sux) to login and init two rocks per tick pretty god damn ezily

what i cant do it log into irc on the first tuesday morning out of protection, whilst in work, and beg in every damn channel i know for a news scan

to me (AND VLADEL <3) it makes a lot more sense to sayyyyyyyyyy

Start a round on a Tuesday, at 7-8pm game time. Those pesky students and unemployed bums connectivity will not be effected, as it remains constant regardless of when the round starts , and those of us who work can ezily follow start up on our mobile phones. BUT now this is the sheer genius part -

WE GET OUT OF PROTECTION ON FRIDAY at LIKE 7-8pm!!!!!!!!

The real pro of this, to me, is tha EVERY1 will be able to get access to and work out calcs etc or get to irc to get....or at least beg... for all the scans etc they need to guarantee survival through the chaotic first week! (or in this case, 3 days of the weekend!). Basically it is far more convieniant (i propose!) getting out of protection Fri night, as it makes possible all the stuff that u should really really be at a comp for, as unless u have a top of the range internet phone, and a boss who dont mind u sitting at ur desk fiddling with bcalcs and irc etc, ur pretty screwed with the current system of getting out of protection Monday night! We would alllllllllllllllllllllllllll (except the great unwashed and the bums) be better prepared for the round, if our first workday out of protection is like the 6th day of the round (the following Monday, assuming the round start was a Tuesday!).

K thats my pitch... for the ADHD effected, the smartass lazy and the soapbox narccissts, heres the short

CURRENT: START FRIDAY - PROTECTION ALL WEEKEND, OUT OF PROTECTION MONDAY NIGHT

PROPOSED: START TUESDAY - PROTECTION ALL WORKING WEEK, OUT OF PROTECTION FRI NIGHT


Pros of the current method - Those without phone conection can enjoy a decent startup

Cons of the current method - Workers get raped hardcore / crash hardcore straight out of protection, unless luck favors them.

Pros of the proposed method - Everybody in the whole game (except mcdonalds burger flippers) has access to irc for the fighting that ensues leaving protection

Cons of the proposed method - Those without pc or phone access, may have a compromised start.

I guess the question is, what is the biggest demographic, those who regularly need to access pa through their phone, or those who do not have internet access through phone. I have no research on this, only the confused blitherings of some over the hill, alcoholic old skool vets, who mumble sumthing about an ageing community, in between burping and picking bits of chicken for consumption out from in between their rolls of belly flab.

What are your thoughts on this, when is the ideal start round day, and out of protection day for you! Please note, I am not proposing changing the length of protection, merely the day the round starts! IF you have any other thoughts on the length of protection, feel free to air them here, but dont derail this topic from its intent (START DAY!) if u want an in depth discussion re: the length of protection go make ur own thread!)

LOVE AND KISSES DARKHEART

P.S. APPOCOMASTER PROMISED HE WOULD MAKE A POLL!!!!! for the preffered start day, if enough discussion and thought was presented here
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Unread 20 May 2008, 20:28   #2
Mzyxptlk
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

The real solution is a much shorter protection. Also, I think you're a mad scientist. If you ever find yourself in a castle, with a thunderstorm overhead, please resist the temptation to laugh when your diabolical plan is finally set in motion. Thank you.
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Unread 20 May 2008, 20:36   #3
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

laugh I shall not, cackle i may very well!
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Unread 20 May 2008, 20:39   #4
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

I'm with Mz on this; a shorter protection (24h?), with shortened tech tree, would mean that everyone (even those who're busy during the week but don't have any inet access access) can put the activity in during protection if they want to.

And protection ends Saturday night, so there's a day of weekend left to race into battle.

Alternatively, it could be 36h prot and we all get out on Sunday morning and have Sun to launch, scan, calc etc.

How does this sound to you?
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Unread 20 May 2008, 20:43   #5
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

in essence there is valid reasons for having a shorter protection, but that would require work to balance a new tech tree ie for terrans who may need to rush to de/bs depending on the stats etc. I dunno, i havent really thought about that. Personally i like the 3 day protection, it gives room for missing a few research and construction ticks here and there, and still get a decent fleet for str8 out of protection. Changing the start round day is a much easier method of achieving a common goal, ie to free up the first weekend for fighting.
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Unread 20 May 2008, 21:56   #6
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

The early techs can just be shortened to ensure that everyone leaves protection at the same level of development that they do currently. More starting resources ensure you reach same roidcount too. The only difference should be in numbers of constructions upon leaving protection, but that's not really an issue. The ability to queue constructions and switch researches should minimise tick losses (even w/ 8hrs sleep).

Additionally, a shorter protection increases the amount of time you get to spend playing 'proper' PA time (quite important, given how short the rounds are now), and protection is boring anyway. Particularly for new players who may well get bored before their 3 days is up.

In essence, I'm trying to persuade you that shortened protection will achieve your aims without moving the round start date, which would negatively affect people like me (I have more inet time at weekends).
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Unread 20 May 2008, 22:01   #7
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

Obviously wouldn't be compatable to implement in this round coming as would take some work (i'd imagine!?) but what would be quite interesting would be a first quick 48 hours for your planet. For example 5 minute ticks for your first 48 ticks? I haven't thought about any specifics, just think it would be quite interesting and would A. get the game up and going quicker & B. add on an extra 48ish ticks to a round.
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Unread 20 May 2008, 22:02   #8
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

Please god can we minimise the amount of time I have to spend playing planetarion during the weekend?
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Unread 20 May 2008, 22:03   #9
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
Alternatively, it could be 36h prot and we all get out on Sunday morning and have Sun to launch, scan, calc etc.

How does this sound to you?
If you went with 36 hours of protection you could probably max innit to 150 roids and then have very few ships to go attacking for ~37 roids max cap.. In essence, i'd rather take my chances and innit to ~250 + stock resources.
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Unread 20 May 2008, 22:14   #10
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReligFree
Obviously wouldn't be compatable to implement in this round coming as would take some work (i'd imagine!?) but what would be quite interesting would be a first quick 48 hours for your planet. For example 5 minute ticks for your first 48 ticks? I haven't thought about any specifics, just think it would be quite interesting and would A. get the game up and going quicker & B. add on an extra 48ish ticks to a round.
No, then people would have to be online during those 2 hours, which might not always be possible.
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Unread 20 May 2008, 22:34   #11
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

aye well, i dunno. i see ur resasoning, tho as one of these waster students u refer to atm, i have no real cares. but start of next round will see me at work, in which case ur post begins to make sense, and as ill have no internet, phone or pc, at work, it'd be nice to see my 1st incoming during weekend hours....GO GET HER IMPLEMENTED BOY!
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Unread 20 May 2008, 22:38   #12
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

So to sum up:

-shortened protection mode:

a/would either mess up whole tech tree or

b/with more frequent ticks it d get a bit crowded :P (with a 7-8 gmt game start, 48 ticks of protection and with tick duration being 5 mins it d also mean an early launch yes - prolly by midnightish, but a shuffle would be kind of interesting to be performed all in a hassle:P ) or

c/ with ticks not changed and only techtree modified we d get the mining and production problem as religfree kindly stated above:P

so gess its a no go.

Also, like Dark's idea about first tick out of protection being after a work week (even tho im a "pesky student", thx dark:P), as the action would happen at weekend and maybe fleetcrashes would be less often (due to scanners being available etcetc) =)

Ufff!
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Unread 20 May 2008, 22:40   #13
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReligFree
Obviously wouldn't be compatable to implement in this round coming as would take some work (i'd imagine!?) but what would be quite interesting would be a first quick 48 hours for your planet. For example 5 minute ticks for your first 48 ticks? I haven't thought about any specifics, just think it would be quite interesting and would A. get the game up and going quicker & B. add on an extra 48ish ticks to a round.
This would be fine, except that those what, two hours? would have very large marginal returns to time; ie, if you couldnt be online for those two hours, then you essentially miss two full days of the highly competitive tickstart. In the normal round, it might only count for a single tick, but some people would be screwed in a severe fashion.

[oh, lo Mz ]

I think i prefer the ideas of shorter protections with fewer/faster res/con instead. Because then you just need to be uber for 1 day, which most people playing this game can more easily achieve, rather than some arbitary 2 hour window (plus, as an aussie this is certain to be at like 0400 my time rather than 8pm your time which isnt good now that i've all grown up and stuff)
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Unread 20 May 2008, 22:53   #14
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

well, i dont know if this would be even possible in pa, but heres a thought....

protection for 72 ticks. u move the ticks forward urself whenever u done fiddling about with ur stuff, so these 72 tick can be done in say 30 mins. then u stop. game starts ticking proper saturday nite with everyone outta protection. this would give everyone a 24hr period to get their planet up and running before protection ends, leaving a more level playing field
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Unread 20 May 2008, 22:54   #15
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatrick
well, i dont know if this would be even possible in pa, but heres a thought....

protection for 72 ticks. u move the ticks forward urself whenever u done fiddling about with ur stuff, so these 72 tick can be done in say 30 mins. then u stop. game starts ticking proper saturday nite with everyone outta protection. this would give everyone a 24hr period to get their planet up and running before protection ends, leaving a more level playing field
Has already been suggested in (and outside of) this thread. Is technically possible, but lack of coding time probably prevents actual implementation.
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Unread 20 May 2008, 22:59   #16
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Please god can we minimise the amount of time I have to spend playing planetarion during the weekend?
Exactly! Some ppl have to work/play sports/go out on saturday/sunday, or just want to have some time off pa, so to say it's a win for everyone, not agreed Altho shorter protection can be interesting, it get's really boring after a day already. Perhaps they can make some bonuses you can choose from, like for example 2k of this ship, 400k resources, a certain (or more) researches done or some extra roids. Just to give players a bit more freedom to choose their start and so you won't have to change the entire techtree in this short time before the round.
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Unread 20 May 2008, 23:14   #17
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatrick
protection for 72 ticks. u move the ticks forward urself whenever u done fiddling about with ur stuff, so these 72 tick can be done in say 30 mins. then u stop. game starts ticking proper saturday nite with everyone outta protection. this would give everyone a 24hr period to get their planet up and running before protection ends, leaving a more level playing field
There is a whole thread on this somewhere, which discussed some issues that were raised, least of which was the amount of coding time that it would take to implement such a change would essentially make it prohibitive.

That, and it doesnt solve the original poster's problem: he wanted protection to end over the weekend, not over the weekday. This method still results in the same "start" time after those 72 hours of free-ticking.

[dammit, i hate you Mz ]
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Unread 20 May 2008, 23:26   #18
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

Quote:
Originally Posted by csillag
c/ with ticks not changed and only techtree modified we d get the mining and production problem as religfree kindly stated above:P

so gess its a no go.
I don't think it's really a problem.

If you start being able to mine 200 roids and are given enough resources to immediately init plenty of roids (120? 150? 180? 190?), and the rest of the tech tree is shortened. You end up coming out of protection at the same level of roids, fleet size & technology you currently do. The only difference is the number of constructions, which isn't a huge issue because there's easily time to build a res lab and a factory before you have to order your ships.

It's basically the same outcome as the current system, but it's quicker, gives you more 'real' PA time & achieves what Darkheart wants without changing the round start time which could affect people with limited work inet access.


Sorry for appearing to hijack your thread DarkHeart - I just think shorter protection would achieve what we both want.
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Unread 20 May 2008, 23:50   #19
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
I don't think it's really a problem.
Well, it definately exists. Its the case of, even if you start with more resources such that you can init more roids, but you have fewer ticks before protection ends before you need to have ships built to attack (if that's your thing) or to defend in time (with fewer factories too). So, you still have less available cash to utilise unless you make the starting resources such that people can immediately init enough roids to make up the difference (eg, 400k resources by end of protection irrespective of whether its 36 or 72 ticks). But that's alot more roids and stuff.

As for whether its a problem, well i dont know for sure either way. It almost needs to be tested to find out. It should provide some new challenges to conventional doctrine though - new protection period people might actually enjoy given that its been more or less the same since Asteroid Scans and Unint roids were dropped!
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Unread 21 May 2008, 00:05   #20
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

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Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
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Unread 21 May 2008, 00:47   #21
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

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Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Well, it definately exists. Its the case of, even if you start with more resources such that you can init more roids, but you have fewer ticks before protection ends before you need to have ships built to attack (if that's your thing) or to defend in time (with fewer factories too). So, you still have less available cash to utilise unless you make the starting resources such that people can immediately init enough roids to make up the difference (eg, 400k resources by end of protection irrespective of whether its 36 or 72 ticks). But that's alot more roids and stuff.
Increased resources at start so that resource potential by PT24 or 36 is the same as it is now.

Have 'research fighter hulls' quest reward you with 1-2 factories in your smallest pod class.

I still think the benefits make it well worth it. And the issues mentioned are easily overcome.

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Unread 21 May 2008, 00:55   #22
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

didn't we discuss all this already?

@ original post - do you never attack at all during the week, or only on Monday night because it sounds like you'd potentially never have IRC access to get scans except on the weekend?
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Unread 21 May 2008, 01:27   #23
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

When i talked about those 2 hours of ticks etc, i did mean the first two hours of YOUR planet. Not neccesarily of the actual round for everyone on a whole. So if you can't make the first 2 hours, then you basically don't signup. Obviously i know then it would cause issues with buddypacks, what gals to end up in eventually, yada yada yada, but I was just shooting ideas out to be honest
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Unread 21 May 2008, 08:03   #24
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

Well, we can stack constructions already, so why not some extra constructions/research during the protection period. It has been argued before that the protection period is the most boring period of the round and we actually lose newly signed up players because of it.

So my idea:
Allow researches and constructions to be stacked during protection and speed them up, shorten protection to say 24 hours and compensate the roid mining or initiating loss with extra resources.

edit: well not my idea, more like a summary of the thread and other threads
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Unread 21 May 2008, 10:02   #25
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

Even if u guys would change to a speed-game-like protection period (which may sound good but not for those who DARE go to sleep and miss out lots of essential ticks)it would be a bit unfair for late joiners to make them wait 72 (or whatever it is:P) normal game ticks to leave protection mode.

If you d put them in c200 for the period it wouldn't help those who are new to the game (and are in need of advice). However placing them in a rl galaxy would be interesting if just-joined ticked faster than the other galmates:P .(no idea if its even possible coding-wise)
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Unread 21 May 2008, 11:18   #26
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

heres a bold statement....NO protection wotsoever! this rewards players that put in effort to get pods out fast. i expect negative comments towards, but im just speaking my mind.
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Unread 21 May 2008, 11:30   #27
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

and let fi/co races steal the precious roids on the second day of the rd, ehh?:P
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Unread 21 May 2008, 11:34   #28
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

well, yes....if the atker can get fi/co out, then the deffer can get fi/co out to defend himself. and as for the latecomers, well, they'll be that small noone would bother with them their first 72 ticks anyway.
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Unread 21 May 2008, 11:45   #29
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

sure. But the deffer is screwed then if he/she prefers spending the res on the fr/dr/cr/bs attack fleet which is more likely to happen as roids are cheap at the beginning (and therefore easier to reinit).
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Unread 21 May 2008, 11:51   #30
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

i believe thats called tactics....get anti co/fi out and keep ur early roids, or aim for a bigger fleet class....

tho i fear we have wondered off topic quite a bit......

BTW, im still up for Tuesday round start!
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Unread 21 May 2008, 11:52   #31
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

so am I. lol
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Unread 21 May 2008, 12:49   #32
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatrick
protection for 72 ticks. u move the ticks forward urself whenever u done fiddling about with ur stuff, so these 72 tick can be done in say 30 mins. then u stop. game starts ticking proper saturday nite with everyone outta protection. this would give everyone a 24hr period to get their planet up and running before protection ends, leaving a more level playing field
Quote:
Originally Posted by mz
Has already been suggested in (and outside of) this thread. Is technically possible, but lack of coding time probably prevents actual implementation.
I would dispute this. I believe it would only require significant coding time were it to involve changes to the game engine itself, but this need not be the case at all.

Why not create a separate game module to which users are directed at first logon and asked to customise their planets. They could choose from a default build for their race or they could customise it by "playing" the first x ticks (with a much more limited UI) themselves. When they are finished the final details are added to the relevant database(s) and their planet is visible in game. There would then be a brief protection window (ex. 12h) for the use of non build features such as ship manufacturing, resource trading, alliance joining, etc.

I do not believe this method would require all that much coding time at all while having some nice benefits:

1) End of boring old protection mode which is definitely one of the worst parts of the game.

2) Gives newbies a chance to play a decently built planet from the get go. If combined well with the new quest system it could make the game much more accessible. At the moment people have to process a lot straight away and can get discouraged, something I've witnessed myself on several occasions.

3) Adds length to the round. I think the general consensus at the moment is that they are too short. This goes a little way towards alleviating that.

I could go on but I'm worried about stretching in to tl/dr territory.
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Unread 21 May 2008, 14:54   #33
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

This thread has been hijacked a bit with other protection suggestions, which should probably go here instead.

I'd guess that the first weekend is when most people try to sort out their galaxy IRC channels and join their alliance ingame. If you change the start of the round to a weekday then you might cause problems for those who are only available during the evening. With slightly different timezones it might make things even more awkward.

It's not just about being able to login to the game, but setting up various other little things. Personally I'd like to see the shuffle changed to early Saturday to allow people to settle into their galaxies a bit earlier.
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Unread 21 May 2008, 15:12   #34
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

Yeah, because joining the alliance tag and setting up an IRC channel are really time-intensive actions.
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Unread 21 May 2008, 18:28   #35
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

Guys this was never a thread about changing protection time at all, it's about moving the start day.
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Unread 21 May 2008, 18:35   #36
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

the thread is about getting first incomings showing up over the weekend when most ppl aint at work, and chaging protection does this.
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Unread 21 May 2008, 19:01   #37
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

Zaeji - I attack constantly :P u'll mostly find me in #tran where im providing scans for other people, I aim my planet towards being self sufficient precisely because its so hard to get scans when ur stuck in work :P

But im not gonna sacrifice my whole round to start as a scan planet, thats a bridge too far! So i was looking at ways of making the early round a little less painful for all non scan planets, who happen to have to work!

As others have said a lot of the 'protection debate' would involve coding and changes to the game, I made this thread simply as the game start day can be changed so protection ends at the weekend, without actually changing the game itself! (though I fully accept, and looked / look forward to hearing about, the other areas this may cause inconvieniencies!)

I really like the idea of having two game modules liek achilles said, building ur planet away from the game, then the game integrating planets into the universe at tick x... late starters could then be offered to start with a 'template' planet, or go through the 72 ticks protection manually. That way its their choice if they're stuck in protection, and cant complain!
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Unread 21 May 2008, 19:28   #38
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Yeah, because joining the alliance tag and setting up an IRC channel are really time-intensive actions.
You're overlooking other things.

Weak and unorganised galaxies might not have a channel ready before the round starts, which gets worse if you can't get all the people on IRC together. You're making assumptions that everyone is organised.

It also gives alliances the weekend to add their own members to their IRC channels, websites, forums, ingame, etc. if they aren't there already. Prune out the players who said they were joining but never started.
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Unread 21 May 2008, 21:19   #39
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper
You're overlooking other things.

Weak and unorganised galaxies might not have a channel ready before the round starts, which gets worse if you can't get all the people on IRC together. You're making assumptions that everyone is organised.

It also gives alliances the weekend to add their own members to their IRC channels, websites, forums, ingame, etc. if they aren't there already. Prune out the players who said they were joining but never started.
Applying for P in your channel - 2 minutes
Mailing your supporters - 3 minutes
Adding your BP to your channel - 1 minute
Sending a mail to your galaxy with channel name and key - 1 minute

As for alliances, if you find yourself needing to set up your infrastructure during protection, you've done something very very wrong. IRC channels should be set up at least a week before round start, forums are really only required for alliances that already exist, a website/arbiter should be online and running before ticks start. Adding your members ingame can be done at any time between tickstart and about tick 100, covering both the week and weekend, and is really not that much work anyway.

Furthermore, it is not unreasonable to expect that HCs have to be more active than the average Planetarion player, so they should have no problems finding the time to perform these actions.

I'm really not seeing what the problem is here. If this is the argument you're basing your rejection of this idea on, I'd suggest thinking up some more. Valid ones, if possible.
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Unread 21 May 2008, 21:35   #40
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

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Please god can we minimise the amount of time I have to spend playing planetarion during the weekend?
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Unread 23 May 2008, 10:22   #41
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

I doubt this will affect alliances .. tuesday or friday, any half decent alliance has set up in place, messages sent out etc etc...


I personally work weekends and have phone access so for me protection end on tuesday or friday is negligable.
Time however, if it could be started a bit earlier so i dont have to stay up till ugly o'clock in the morning to set off my 2nd research would be rather nice.
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Unread 23 May 2008, 11:25   #42
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

Whats worst is that people actually replied to this pile of manure!

DAMN, NOW I DID IT TOO!
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Unread 23 May 2008, 13:04   #43
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Re: Thoughts Required - Change Round Start Day?

I think the suggestion is good...

u can do final recruitment and organisation during the weekend. Start the round at tuesday... (who gives a heck if u miss few ticks...) and yes u get your first battles to be launched during weekend. (even everyone is drunk and not present in here ofc, but potentially they could be... everyone can choose between the bar and game, but u cant choose between work and game.)
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