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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 15:35   #51
Furyous
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Re: Round 20 Changes

I like it all. I really do. It will make the game interesting for once.

And what's all this whinging about not giving inactive allies a fair chance. Do they play to win? Have they ever had a realistic possibility of winning? History says not. Why give a shit about the alliance ranking? Unless you think you might be 11th instead of 7th? Big deal.

*Edit: by 'inactive allies' I do not count Ascendancy, which was rather an excellent alliance which simply exploited the score system in such a way as not to play particularly actively.
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 15:36   #52
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Re: Round 20 Changes

as I said before, you are taking the socializing part out of the game by doing this. also, I'd like to repeat the issue with zik obviously getting a 4 ace hand dealt to them.

ruining xp is going to dissolve reasons to attack in all options except when free roiding or massive ship nicking/killing is concerned. (which will ruin MY fun at least)

making more random galaxies will lead to less social galaxies and ruin at least MY gameplay too

almost forcing me to go zik will ruin the fondness I've had with playing xan

and value playing... especially not my playing style. I've had the most fun desperately trying to XP from eXi the last few weeks r19, WITHOUT crashing!

tbh I had one serious crash all round because I overslept, and the value loss already knocked me back as far as to make me realise crashing makes no sense... I think removing XP from being alliance significant doesn't add to the warning at all, it just means value players are going to bitch on everyone else for playing differently, and XP gamers going mad about being unable to play PA the way they like to (like I'm doing right now)

If this is the way it stays, forget my quids, I'm not playing r20 then... and I'd hate to not play since r19 just brought me back IN again after 9 rounds absence.
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 15:37   #53
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
This is a problem due to the way the game previously developed though. People saw themselves as more competitive due to the fact they went after xp so their scores were "artifically" elevated and the blunt statement of alliance values, which more accurately reflects alliance strength was not apparent.

right, but if we are trying to appeal to new and old players alike, then the xp set up serves its purpose in that respect. We have xp in the game, it should be a factor on some level. It's too bad we can't create a "power rating" based on the two scores and base alliance rank on that or something.... or just have 2 sets of rankings 1 score 1 value.....
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 15:40   #54
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Re: Round 20 Changes

If I remember correctly, the reason behind including xp in the game was to encourage smaller planets to target larger planets, in the efforts of combatting stagnation.

Now, if those smaller planets do this, there's a higher opportunity cost for the alliance which makes those raids happen. Taking xp out of the Alliance Ranking could very easily shift that focus from 'up' to 'down', going for easier, safer roids for easier, safer value growth.

That's a shame.

(edit: and this is especially contradictory in light of the PA team's interest in catering to new players. removing the importance of xp hurts everyone who isnt 'omg i refuse to go on this date with the hot babe so i can send my wraiths!' over planetarion.)

(edit #2: is this one of those times where our awesome Planetarion Community Handling Squad is waiting for the steam to pass before trying to explain why they're making the changes they are? Isn't this...'community relations'?)
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 15:42   #55
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk
right, but if we are trying to appeal to new and old players alike, then the xp set up serves its purpose in that respect. We have xp in the game, it should be a factor on some level. It's too bad we can't create a "power rating" based on the two scores and base alliance rank on that or something.... or just have 2 sets of rankings 1 score 1 value.....
To be honest I don't think you can appeal to everyone. Trying to appeal to everyone just means you have a muddled game which doesn't end up making sense. As for what you say it would be perfectly possible to have two rankings. What would either of them mean though? Surely the contest for best alliance should be the contest to find the most powerful alliance?
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 15:52   #56
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Well, for me as an alliance player, I really dont see a good reason to upgrade my account at all this round.
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 15:54   #57
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Well, for me as an alliance player, I really dont see a good reason to upgrade my account at all this round.
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 15:55   #58
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
No, you now have a reasonably large cluster which you can attempt to organise.
it still a lotery and i think its no fun organisating a cluster with every1 fake nicking.
also i think i said ill be max a scanner next round so no tasks for me plz
not that i would do anything good ^
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 16:41   #59
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Re: Round 20 Changes

It also means an alliance can actually be taken down, rather then simply outroided.
Since their score *is* value, you just have to kill it.
Fleetcatches etc should be a popular tactic
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 16:43   #60
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony
(edit #2: is this one of those times where our awesome Planetarion Community Handling Squad is waiting for the steam to pass before trying to explain why they're making the changes they are? Isn't this...'community relations'?)
Yes, simply put. ( to both questions )
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 16:45   #61
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Re: Round 20 Changes

I don't know if this will encourage XP whoring more or not. However I do know the following
  • [BIG] may be able to compete, but we are well known for being an attack on alliance without the "PA names". Small alliances like us rely on planets gaining score through XP, we know we won't be able to keep our roids - but our satisfaction in having a valuable fleet is important.
  • Big alliances will push their players for gaining and keeping value
  • Big alliances will have a large number of Zik players - zik planets have been value players for several rounds
  • Large alliances will organise more and more highly effective fleet catches - FC's need organisation, big ally's have the organisation required to make these work well - small allys don't
  • Small alliances/unallied players will be the subject of fleet catches as we are unable to effectively organise defence or prevent them from occuring (less skilled players, less scanners to check inc, people who want to do other things than JPG scan their own planets every 5 minutes up to the ETA 1 tick etc).
  • Small alliances and unallied players will leave the game as it's no fun being the victim of a robbery.

XP was brought in to discourage people from attacking constantly at the 40% value range. It appears individual planet rank and score will benefit from being XP based, so you could argue that small alliances/unallied players might not be concerned about alliance score, because their individual planets may be ranked higher.

But as the game is heavily alliance orientated, it will be no fun finding people constantly trying to steal your ships because they know you can do nothing about it.

I for one won't be playing the game next round as my whole play method is going to be stolen by FC's - I know you couldn't care less, but allowing people to play at different levels should be a goal of the game.
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 16:57   #62
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjor
if score is value based please make roids more value worth

I really like this idea if we are going to base off value. It will encourage attacking.

Galaxies need to be 10 man, not 11, or 12, or 23, 10!!!!

Oh and just get rid of zik stealing. Turn them into something different, or back to the steal for the battle thing. That takes away ziks being used to "value whore" for allies, and will take the fleet catching problem in cluster out.

If not I say everyone just play zik.
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 17:18   #63
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Re: Round 20 Changes

well...if you are going to give clusters eta advantages you should take out alliances completely. an effective Cluster Ally which fleetcatches alot can easy take the win here...just needs someone to pull the initiative.

I'm not confident of that, sorry.
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 17:27   #64
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furyous
*Edit: by 'inactive allies' I do not count Ascendancy, which was rather an excellent alliance which simply exploited the score system in such a way as not to play particularly actively.
I like how everyone who makes a general comment about alliances now has to give a little disclaimer discounting ascendancy, as they're the exception to every rule!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjor
it still a lotery and i think its no fun organisating a cluster with every1 fake nicking.
I won't be fakenicking! This means I can go into the cluster channel and everyone will be like "woh it's that amazing player tomkat we'd better let him control and run things and be in charge and fan him and feed him grapes" and then I can whore all the defence for myself
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 17:47   #65
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Re: Round 20 Changes

I am concerned about the zik factor here. may as well eliminate the other 3 races as it is now, unless Ziks are seriously changed to either have a much tougher time stealing, or changed to what they were before they started stealing again (subversion). I don't want to play a game that has 2500 ziks and 4 of each of the other races.
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 17:51   #66
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Im sure they will be adequately nerfed in the betas if the testers are in the least bit competant.
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 17:56   #67
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Im sure they will be adequately nerfed in the betas if the testers are in the least bit competant.
That sounds like fun!
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 17:57   #68
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Im sure they will be adequately nerfed in the betas if the testers are in the least bit competant.
I have a real hard time seeing how ziks could even be nerfed to make it fair, IF your going to base alliance ranks on value, ziks can't steal, simple as that, have to even the playing field, and even if they tweak the stats on ziks, there are good enough players to still play them successfully, making it way off center as far as being fair
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 17:59   #69
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Re: Round 20 Changes

I smell subvert returning


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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 18:03   #70
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk
I have a real hard time seeing how ziks could even be nerfed to make it fair, IF your going to base alliance ranks on value, ziks can't steal, simple as that, have to even the playing field, and even if they tweak the stats on ziks, there are good enough players to still play them successfully, making it way off center as far as being fair
lose stealers while stealing , not 100% efficiency on how many ships can be stolen etc
there are numerous ways to counterbalance it, and subvert is another of those options
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 18:17   #71
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Re: Round 20 Changes

making their ships weak and expensive should do the trick
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 19:13   #72
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Re: Round 20 Changes

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I strongly oppose the proposed changes to clusters and buddy packs.
A 5 man buddy pack is fine. The proposed changes mean that EVERYBODY might as well simply go random. With Clusters, we are going to be receiving in cluster defense calls of eta 6. Impossible for alliances to cover. Alliances are the core of this game, and alliances are also the reason many players continue to play this game, so introducing clusters simply demeans peoples preparation via alliances and requires hardcore further preparation in the establishment of cluster alliances, furthermore, I believe the proposed changes to clusters will result in 1 or 2 SUPER galaxies in each cluster continually bashing those weaker galaxies in their clusters, with these 2 galaxies able to defend each other -2 etas and hit all weaker allies with -1 advantage.

To re-iterate, I strongly oppose the buddy pack changes and the cluster changes, please reconsider the proposed changes as this will disrupt the equilibrium of planetarion and I believe will increase the differences in the rankings.
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Round 17 - Rank 3 - Omen (Zik)
Round 18 - Rank 2 - eXilition (Zik)
Round 20 - Rank 7 - Destiny (Zik)
Round 24 - Rank 2 - Conspiracy (Xan)
Round 29 - Rank 4 - Ascendancy (Xan)
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 19:16   #73
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Re: Round 20 Changes

I agree with the following changes, however:

Alliance size
Alliances ranked by value (this is a more accurate reflection of an alliances strength, XP is still there, and the option for a PLAYER to play for XP is still relevant and a distinct possibility, its just that that PLAYER will not be of benefit to their alliance score, which makes sense considering XP whores are not available to defend effectively anyway)
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Round 17 - Rank 3 - Omen (Zik)
Round 18 - Rank 2 - eXilition (Zik)
Round 20 - Rank 7 - Destiny (Zik)
Round 24 - Rank 2 - Conspiracy (Xan)
Round 29 - Rank 4 - Ascendancy (Xan)
Round 66 - Rank 9 - Ultores (Etd)
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 20:27   #74
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Re: Round 20 Changes

These new changes will mean that people will have to take a different approch to game play. Which imo is a very good thing.

Some of them might not work well but with thouragh beta testing and a round this will be picked up on and changed if nessesery esspecially if their is a huge community outcry.

I would say try them out see what you think before shouting that they will suck. These changes will make the current way people play obsolete for the majority. But it opens up so many more possibilitys to on how to approch things. Will the zik heavy alliances end up on top or will the strong clusters be the dominant force.

I think with these changes r20 will be very exciting and might inject some much needed Ooomph (no pun intended) into the game
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 20:28   #75
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Re: Round 20 Changes

we dont want 4 billion ziks and 8 of every other race...ppl seem to be missing that point here... why not just delete the other races and have 1 in that case, change just for the sake of change isn't neccesarily a good thing... people have been trying to make that point for a number of rounds, except no one in the PA team seems to be listening
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 20:29   #76
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Re: Round 20 Changes

shorter rds i like
smaller gals i like
bringing cluster allys back into the game i also like as it wont just be your galaxy and alliance your interacting with
as regards decideing alliance by value the only option i can see to stop a zik heavy universe is for ziks to lose ships when stealing and/or put a cap on amount of ships stolen similar to the max cap we have on roids currently,
aside from that i reckon having a value based round may be a good idea for the game and tbh at this stage we gotta try something to retain the player base and increase it



Edit cus i forgot half the things i wanted to say
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 20:34   #77
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Re: Round 20 Changes

I wouldnt like to be in a zik heavy alliance. If i was an HC i woudnt seriously think about allowing it tbh.

With ziks you need much better coverage of incoming to deter the attacker. Alliances wouldnt be able to cover their members effectivly with mostly ziks. Especially on nights of heavy incoming.

Alliances will have to try and balance ziks for value with other races to keep them alive.

EDIT: Alliances will need to depend on their fleets a lot more to be competative. They will no longer have the fall back of big XP if they lose a war. The top alliance will be easly knocked from the top giving a much betetr dynamic in the top5
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 20:37   #78
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy
I wouldnt like to be in a zik heavy alliance. If i was an HC i woudnt seriously think about allowing it tbh.

With ziks you need much better coverage of incoming to deter the attacker. Alliances wouldnt be able to cover their members effectivly with mostly ziks. Especially on nights of heavy incoming.

Alliances will have to try and balance ziks for value with other races to keep them alive.
except it's not the alliances responsability to balance the game, it's the responsability of the game development people..thats what the point should be... I'm still waiting on someone to step up and say, "this is why we changed this, and this is what we hope to accomplish with the change"
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 20:46   #79
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk
except it's not the alliances responsability to balance the game, it's the responsability of the game development people..thats what the point should be... I'm still waiting on someone to step up and say, "this is why we changed this, and this is what we hope to accomplish with the change"
I cant speak to the development as i have nothing to do with it. However on your comment about balance.

If alliances want to go all out zik they will have a huge benifit in the fact they can steal value. So if they never get a single incoming they will be sitting very comfortably. However the hardest race to defend with is ziks. And they will have to defend. So the balance comes in the have an advantage at gaining value but a disadvantage that they will strugle to keep it. This as i see it is a nice balance.

Each race has pros and cons always had. And it is the alliances responsability to find the balance that best suits them.
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 20:50   #80
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy
Each race has pros and cons always had. And it is the alliances responsability to find the balance that best suits them.
very true but the game developer's are responsible for creating balanced stats
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 20:51   #81
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Re: Round 20 Changes

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very true but the game developer's are responsible for creating balanced stats
Of course.
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 21:00   #82
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Re: Round 20 Changes

what i meant was with the alliance ranking being based on value this is even more important than previous rounds or it will be remembered as the round that killed pa
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 21:10   #83
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Re: Round 20 Changes

VALUE PLAY WOOOOO

finally should make things a bit more intresting than having 3/4 of the universe too small to attack


is the salvage gonna stay at 40% or w/e the souped up round 19 figure was?

If so, non ziks are going to have to hunt out incomings to defend against and put in almost as much effort as us Ziks put in to organise fc's.

I think its a good thing. Ppl talk about alliances like its a great group effort and bladda bladda bladda when really its just a HC/DC/Bc team with battlecalcs pointing out a direction for ppl to send their ships. These changes could potentially make the little man start thinking for himself woot

Lookign forward to round 20 allready. Now pppplllzzz fulfill my other dreams, and invent 10 more ships for each race that can be built. I got v v v v v bored of seeing roach/tara....shadow/nightmare.....wyv/dragon fleets last round.
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 21:46   #84
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHeart
I think its a good thing. Ppl talk about alliances like its a great group effort and bladda bladda bladda when really its just a HC/DC/Bc team with battlecalcs pointing out a direction for ppl to send their ships.
You made me cry.
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 21:47   #85
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy
These new changes will mean that people will have to take a different approch to game play. Which imo is a very good thing.

Some of them might not work well but with thouragh beta testing and a round this will be picked up on and changed if nessesery esspecially if their is a huge community outcry.

I would say try them out see what you think before shouting that they will suck. These changes will make the current way people play obsolete for the majority. But it opens up so many more possibilitys to on how to approch things. Will the zik heavy alliances end up on top or will the strong clusters be the dominant force.

I think with these changes r20 will be very exciting and might inject some much needed Ooomph (no pun intended) into the game
Spoke like a true salesman.
The way I see the changes:
XP changes - bad. At least till now, non zik races had an option.
BP changes - bad. You think you´ll uniformize gal score with this? Nah, you´ll just kill em even more. Any idea how many exiles happened last round. Did you forgot r19 had a exiles winning gal?.
Cluster changes - step forward(ppl won´t realise how important c allies are next round, maybe the next few rounds, not this one though) and step backward when I´m thinking at zik´s fleetcatches in cluster, imposible to prevent)
Ally changes - really bad. Admin team reached another level of amateurism on this one. You really are unawared of alliance dinamics in a round. In a game where planets not being part of an alliance are as good as dead, you forbid joining an alliance after week1. So no alliances can be started after round starts, so few planets(and only small ones) can join an alliance after week1? LoL
Free accounts changes - more farms, multi support planets? Yes.
As a gamer, do I care about admin tools or skins? I can only hope you made those right, all other changes go in the wrong direction.
Before any other other prediction thread is open, I´ll make a prediction on number of PA rounds left: 3.
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 21:48   #86
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Re: Round 20 Changes

this sucks i have alrdy sorted a 5 man BP!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 21:48   #87
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Re: Round 20 Changes

this sucks i have alrdy sorted a 5 man BP!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 21:50   #88
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Re: Round 20 Changes

lol how many times did i post that? :S
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 21:53   #89
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy
I think with these changes r20 will be very exciting and might inject some much needed Ooomph (no pun intended) into the game
There is no pun there.
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 22:07   #90
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Don't think much of many of the changes at all. The ranking of alliances by value change could be interesting but the Zik advantage would be too far out of balance. XP is not the greatest thing but it is a nice balance and works well for the rds where it has been used correctly. The cluster idea is also interesting but a bit out of balance when so much of this game depends/revolves around alliances. The core group of PA players play for their alliance, not for getting into a random and hopefully active cluster where there are more responsibilties for everyone to deal with. The BP size is too small as well. 2x2 or 3 person BPs just isn't enough coverage. Yes galaxies are smaller now. Yes there are fewer people playing. But 3/10 is still a small amount of the galaxy. If galaxy members are limited to 10 then 4 people (of your choosing not 2 pairs of 2) BPs would be a better situation but I'm all for 5 person BPs sticking around. The game is all about having fun and interacting with the people you care about eh? Those are the people that you BP with and are in an alliance with, not people you just happen to get lucky and land in-cluster with. Just my thoughts. <3 PA team for the work they do and trying to think up new changes, just make sure that all these changes are OPEN for discussion like you say they are.
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 22:07   #91
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
You made me cry.

is that a good thing or a bad thing

seriously if every1 is so up in the air trumpety about the loss of xp they are imagining well well i say planets are still gonna be score ranked right? so make xp entierly score dependant... ie VERY similar to the way it is now....but the xp gain on the attack is worked out via your universe rank versus your targets universe rank and has sweeet FA to do with value.

This way any remaining XP whores for next round, who as stated by others in this thread wont be much of an ally player....will be COMPLETLY wide open to hostiles looking for XP since, the xp whore has so many holes in their fleet.

Hell even take it one step further and introduce a system where the target loses a percent of their own XP which is a variable addition to a set of fixed calaculations in determinging the attackers XP gain
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 22:10   #92
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Re: Round 20 Changes

You guys can discuss this all you want, but as you have probably noticed there's been no response from Chef or Appoco or anyone from the development on this thread about the various issues people have with the changes. It'd be nice to get a response from them, rather than have 100 peopld dicuss it amongst ourselves while having no impact at all upon where the game is going.
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 22:11   #93
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Re: Round 20 Changes

one easy solution would be to make roids give more income
would make zik have a slower start and alliances would have to support zik players if they want them big
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 22:20   #94
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I like how everyone who makes a general comment about alliances now has to give a little disclaimer discounting ascendancy, as they're the exception to every rule!




I won't be fakenicking! This means I can go into the cluster channel and everyone will be like "woh it's that amazing player tomkat we'd better let him control and run things and be in charge and fan him and feed him grapes" and then I can whore all the defence for myself
get me beer and im yours
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 22:21   #95
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Re: Round 20 Changes

yes we did notice nintina. and we posted anyway. k?

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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 22:47   #96
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk
except it's not the alliances responsability to balance the game, it's the responsability of the game development people..thats what the point should be... I'm still waiting on someone to step up and say, "this is why we changed this, and this is what we hope to accomplish with the change"
id like to imagine this scenario

back in the day, everything was value based
back in the day, some cluster alliances rocked the pants off this game. (hello concordium?)
back in the day this game rocked

I missed a lot of PA's post pay to play... silly little id like to poke you in the eye xp whore era.....history, but having played round 19, my first in 8 rounds.... i could see little glimmers of the game i loved rounds 1 through to 7.... and these changes I (would like to imagine) are a big step towards getting over the mistake of the post pay to play lets encourage ppl to have tiny little fleets structure.

Seriously looking forward to round 20

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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 23:00   #97
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Re: Round 20 Changes

the only thing I dont like is that my BP of 5 was sorted
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 23:01   #98
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Re: Round 20 Changes

something else id liek to know for round 20 (assuming PaTeam read / respond to this thread /me nods at nintina)

- JGPs can be launched if you have a free fleet without having to actually launch it at the target first (they will still work on planets that a fleet is travelling to)

will you be able to jgp your own planet without a returning fleet?
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 23:09   #99
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furyous
And what's all this whinging about not giving inactive allies a fair chance. Do they play to win? Have they ever had a realistic possibility of winning? History says not. Why give a shit about the alliance ranking? Unless you think you might be 11th instead of 7th? Big deal.
It might not be a big deal to you, but it is to those alliances. Your description of them as inactive is ridiculous - you seem to be suggesting that any alliance that doesn't play as hardcore as 1up/eXil did is inactive. Retard.

Thinking back to VGN's history when I was part of them, our ranking went 6th, 13th, 7th, 7th, 4th. Those ranks were important because they didn't exist in isolation - it was our rank in comparison to similar alliances (Subh, TGV) that mattered the most.


To pretend that this was insignificant would be plain silly.
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Unread 14 Dec 2006, 23:16   #100
qebab
The Original Carebear
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 1,048
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Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHeart
...
I was commenting on how you oversimplified playing in an alliance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHeart
I think its a good thing. Ppl talk about alliances like its a great group effort and bladda bladda bladda when really its just a HC/DC/Bc team with battlecalcs pointing out a direction for ppl to send their ships.
Do you have any idea how much work it is to run an alliance?

And yes, it definately is a group effort.
__________________
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it.

Oh crap, I might be back. I should take my own advice.
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