Blocking allowed?

[Provider]

Why would I stop any personal opinion or question from a member of Wolfpack. Most of you here are smart enough (or at least should be smart enough ) to see the difference between a personal opinion, question and an alliance opinion.

[Scorpio]

Originally posted by Tesla
Based on what exactly ?
There are several good and imo better alliances then these 2.. But I guess since u got a clear case of bias on ur hands, I shouldnt put too much into it. Im not playing pa next round afaik, thus im not in any alliance; I was however Eclipse last round and my experiences there was nothing but great, helpful BCs and command and loads of defense, sufficed to say I liked it there.

I've been Eclipse in r9 and 9.5 (for a while), and to be honest well they're nothing special at all.
People say they're Fury - Part 2, and people say Fury had a bad round 8. Eclipse is a weak extract of Fury round 8, a very weak one. From what I've seen there's hardly any political skill, nor military skill involved. So what makes Eclipse better than the other alliances?

I'll go for alliances where I think I'll feel at home. ND is home, ViruS is the next best place

[Hicks]

Originally posted by Scorpio
political skill, nor military skill involved.

Hmm:

Political Skill - Rob (Probably the best HC left playing activityly), Zhil. I'm aware that both don't really have any influence on Eclipse politics however they are two of the best political people to play in late era Planetarion so you can hardly say they're devoid of political skill.

Military Skill – At Officer level Eclipse are weak especially since they promoted two of the best defensive Military Officers (Fork and Realjames) to HC however they still have some good BCs in Pring, BlueArmy, Basher and Johnson ? (Question as I'm not sure which of those are still Eclipse I'm not the most up to do date with them). However at planning level Eclipse have Germania who ran the Fury campaign in Round 7 and is as good as military planning as anyone and Focht who when he was at BC level was one of the finest I played with. Again you could also place Rob in this catergory.

I mean if you try and compare Eclipse with Fury or Legion in their hay day they aren't going to compare favourably are they ? But considering the standard of the alliances which are left in Planetarion Eclipse are one of the best. I certainly can't see how you can seriously say ND or ViruS are better alliances than Eclipse or half a dozen other alliances (RaH, Olympians, Dragons, Elysium, NoS, FaNG, Serawhatever)

[Jurgen]

So to block or not to block?
that's teh question.. sum ppl seem to change their minds about blocking. I dunno if there is any blocks made yet dunno... atleast Ðragons have no allies for upcoming round. Ofc. it might change if for example ToT, Eclipse and RaH or FanG keep working with each other. Like I said... dunno.
Is it a block if there is an alliance with 500 members in it? or is it a block if 3 alliances of 50 members decide to cooperate.
Hard to say.
So time to drink some more and enjoy the ad culture... work is over now time for drink and pa again ;-)

heh back to my post after 3 bottles ;-)

And about good alliances and bad alliances... I remember being in the very best alliance ever in pa... r4 called Wolfpack... some of u might remember it. I was a pe0n there yes... And I'm nowadays considered as a pretty good player (atleast by sum... 2times top10 planet rank1gal gc etc.). Those days I logged in ~twice or 3 times a week to check my tiny planet.. yes wp r4 had great names, but sum of them were not as good as nowadays. I think they were not really that good as claimed.

I think many alliances of r10 would easily kick or atleast give a good fight to highlightalliances of past rounds.

Forexample Ely RaH Eclipse and FanG seem to be doing hell of a good job.
Not to mention my "homelands" Ðragons and Wolfpack.

(if my computer crashes now just before posting this I'll never type to ad boards again)

[Tesla]

Originally posted by Scorpio
I've been Eclipse in r9 and 9.5 (for a while), and to be honest well they're nothing special at all.
People say they're Fury - Part 2, and people say Fury had a bad round 8. Eclipse is a weak extract of Fury round 8, a very weak one. From what I've seen there's hardly any political skill, nor military skill involved. So what makes Eclipse better than the other alliances?

I'll go for alliances where I think I'll feel at home. ND is home, ViruS is the next best place

Heh.. Didn't I make clear what was special wiv em in my first post ?
Tbh it's one of the best defense covering alliances I've ever been in considering the odds. I was in Spacehamsters earlier in the round (9,5) so I know what Im talking about; Getting incs and no def whatsoever cuz ur not 'prioritized' is not my idea of fun.
In Eclipse I was only an Acolyte (jr wing) and yet I got covered everytime (and this in a round that they 'lost' or didnt 'win' anyway), I only lost roids once whilst in Eclipse and that wasn't their fault; that was my gal reporting incs one tick too late so defense arrived one tick too late aswell. Only lost like 50 roids for 3 mill score loss for the attacker though

Additonally to the very good defense I recieved I always found the officers/command to be helpful in my time there, more then I can say about certain other alliances.

I doubt ND and ViruS (no offense), could compete wiv Eclipse when it comes down to hardcore gameing, I do however not doubt that they got friendly communities, nice ppl and so on. I know a few ppl from both alliances and they are all nice ppl. If u added a "imo" to ur statement the first time then it'd be okay as ur allowed to have ur own oppinion, but saying that they are the only good places to join period comes of as childish to me, and also sounds somewhat bitter and biased.

Addition: I never said Eclipse was 'the best' now did I ? But its one of em for sure.. There are as mentioned in my above statement several good alliances out there.. Hicks mentioned a few more that I forgot aswell like RaH and Olympians...

Tesla

[The_Fish]

In a one on one war Eclipse would ofc own ND, but Lockhead will still prolly end up owned

[Maddix]

Originally posted by Jurgen
Ofc. it might change if for example ToT, Eclipse and RaH or FanG keep working with each other.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

Yeah right.

[Ferox]

No amount of game changes can prevent large blocks from being formed. That still lies on the shoulders of our GAME politicians, who under extremely hostile circumstances will not hesitate a moment of whether to create an uber-block or not.
Alliances of alliances, blocks as we call it, will always exist, and they add extra new levels to the game before they outgrow sane proportions (compared to the rest of the universe, of course). The longer people keep a certain balance of forces in Planetarion, the better this game gets. For one round.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by Hicks
I certainly can't see how you can seriously say ND or ViruS are better alliances than Eclipse or half a dozen other alliances (RaH, Olympians, Dragons, Elysium, NoS, FaNG, Serawhatever)

well Hicks, newsflash: NOT every alliance you're involved in or where there are alot of old Fury pple in, is automaticly a good one.

No doubt you got ace command but tbh, so have other alliances. Eclipse will be one of the main protagonists in r10, no doubt, but they certainly have not the best command around.

Also, you're pretty biassed. No, tbh you're completely biassed. Why? cause you don't know nor worked with 75% of all the HC's and pple leading alliances. You have not the slightest clue what skills other HC's have, appart from those you worked with. that's no shame, it's normal. Don't ask me whether Scouse (just an example) was a good HC or not, I honnestly couldn't make a valid point there because I never worked with Scouse.
Another example would be: "how for instance would you judge me as an HC", which I've been doin since r2? you never worked with me nor have any clue how I deal things, you just base an opinion on my IRC and AD rep and on what pple tell you about me, that's it.

So I think Scorpio is correct. Eclipse is good, but nothing special, nor is their command and nor are their skills superior to others.

And yes, call me arrogant now, guess that's the fanger coming up in me again

rgds Kj

[ParraCida]

Nobody is anything special these days.

[Razorback]

Originally posted by Kjeldoran
KJ rant

I would recommend you reread what hicks wrote and what scorpio wrote, you might want to correct your reply because it looks totally "wrong".

Infact Hicks made the point you try to get across himself, the point beeing that you cant say 2 alliances are the best around (what scorpio did). Hicks said that there is a basis for good ppl in almost every alliance (he named about 8 and wrote ... ) and that there are certainly more alliances to be counted good. He furthermore wrote exactly that he NOT wants to call eclipse best because that would be subjective but "one of the best".

On a 2nd look, you might want to reread Hicks reply even closer, because then you would see that hicks was in 90% of his post not even refering to fury in any way (i know your old demons are talking again) but in response to Scorpios cheap and unfound dig about eclipses qualities.

So infact your reply to hicks looks like you have read another thread or something. I would recommend to read before you reply to "someone" more carefully what he was talking about and in which context he was saying something.

P.S. i think you are just angry that hicks forgot the "new" Fang

[Cicada]

Originally posted by ParraCida
Nobody is anything special these days.

quite a lot that are speshul though

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by Razorback
I would recommend you reread what hicks wrote and what scorpio wrote, you might want to correct your reply because it looks totally "wrong".

Infact Hicks made the point you try to get across himself, the point beeing that you cant say 2 alliances are the best around (what scorpio did). Hicks said that there is a basis for good ppl in almost every alliance (he named about 8 and wrote ... ) and that there are certainly more alliances to be counted good. He furthermore wrote exactly that he NOT wants to call eclipse best because that would be subjective but "one of the best".

On a 2nd look, you might want to reread Hicks reply even closer, because then you would see that hicks was in 90% of his post not even refering to fury in any way (i know your old demons are talking again) but in response to Scorpios cheap and unfound dig about eclipses qualities.

So infact your reply to hicks looks like you have read another thread or something. I would recommend to read before you reply to "someone" more carefully what he was talking about and in which context he was saying something.

P.S. i think you are just angry that hicks forgot the "new" Fang

I'm sorry Focht if my visions and all interfere with whatever you want us to think of Eclipse or anything. I rather discuss this on IRC then on AD.

About that FAnG remark there at the end, what can I say. If that's what you wanna think then go ahead Focht. I'm not gonna let it bother me as you clearly have no idea what FAnG is.

rgds Kj

P.S. I find it ironical seeing you patrenizing me and other pple time after time again. Guess being a CEO really has gotten to you (no offence m8)

P.P.S. I never disliked Fury r7, infact I still have many ex Fury friends and guess what, they still talk to me so ...

[Razorback]

KJ i was referring to your missinterpretation of Hicks reply. You were with your statements far off anything he said, this has nothing to do with your visions or believes, simply you werent able to reply properly to it.

As a sidenote, There was no Fury reference in Hicks whole statement other than "I mean if you try and compare Eclipse with Fury or Legion in their hay day they aren't going to compare favourably are they ?", i dont see how this leads you talking about Fury or old Fury ppl beeing the core of all 1337ness.

P.S. a lesson you need to learn, other ppls opinion are as much worth as your own, i was only giving my opinion and visions on your "reply" so your personal dig seems far off

[Waku]

oh ffs what a stupid thread this is, Hicks ofcourse ND and Virus isnt better then any other alliance thats not the point.... but people who have been in ND like me will never have any other alliance where they feel better at home then in ND I cant explain it you have to experience for yourself and whats with ND and Virus, I havent heard of it so I guess it wont be true..... though im not god in ND :-P

and even if they do... there will allways be other alliances that "block" also...

-Waku-

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by Razorback
snip

My "little dig" was merely a reply at your dig at FAnG and at your attempt to patronize me.

rgds Kj

[Scorpio]

Originally posted by Razorback
Based on the fact that they are prolly the only "decent" alliances which would let him join

If only you knew, but you're as clueless as ever
(Keep it that way, gives us something to hold onto.)

Originally posted by Hicks
Hmm:

Political Skill -
Military Skill –

I mean if you try and compare Eclipse with Fury or Legion in their hay day they aren't going to compare favourably are they ? But considering the standard of the alliances which are left in Planetarion Eclipse are one of the best. I certainly can't see how you can seriously say ND or ViruS are better alliances than Eclipse or half a dozen other alliances (RaH, Olympians, Dragons, Elysium, NoS, FaNG, Serawhatever)

Maybe they have the skills, maybe they don't. But sofar they've not used them.
I made the comparison with Fury r8, not one of their hay days .

Originally posted by Tesla
I doubt ND and ViruS (no offense), could compete wiv Eclipse when it comes down to hardcore gameing, I do however not doubt that they got friendly communities, nice ppl and so on. I know a few ppl from both alliances and they are all nice ppl. If u added a "imo" to ur statement the first time then it'd be okay as ur allowed to have ur own oppinion, but saying that they are the only good places to join period comes of as childish to me, and also sounds somewhat bitter and biased.

Oh well, I thought it wasn't needed to add an "imo".

I never made the comparison with Eclipse in the first place. I am however kinda amused to read that I would be bitter and biased about Eclipse.
Biased perhaps, but so are you
But why bitter? Because they kicked me out? Even before the ticker had started, I knew I was going to get kicked . That's the only possible reason I see as to why I would be bitter. Take it from me, I'm far from it

[Sonnenbomber]

blocking is bad? and not allowed? MUAHH ROFL LÖL
we have a maximum of 150member for each ally but in which way shall this stop powerblocking? Im pretty sure we'll also have powerblocks in R10.
forbidden...löl roflmal *sichweglegt*

PS: I love powerblocks and nice blockwars

[Wrath of Azure]

Originally posted by Sonnenbomber
blocking is bad? and not allowed? MUAHH ROFL LÖL
we have a maximum of 150member for each ally but in which way shall this stop powerblocking? Im pretty sure we'll also have powerblocks in R10.
forbidden...löl roflmal *sichweglegt*

PS: I love powerblocks and nice blockwars

imo, blocking isnt bad, it's just when we start forming these super blocks that it becomes a problem

Edit: I should delete this, I'm just bored

[Wakko]

muuharhar

u dont have anything better to do than talking about ****ing blockwars???
hey ppl its summer, its party time....
and u waste ur time with lame discussions about such stupid things

some ppl i cant understand, everything else could give u more satisfaction than this senseless bullsh|t


bomber du sau gib mir nie wieder so nen link , vor allem ned um die uhrzeit o_O

[Rudmer]

Originally posted by Yeggstry
You really are a first class IDIOT


Perhaps you should be more worried about how your supposed 300+ members are going to survive this round when the max. allowed per alliance is 150.......

wow, my calculator says 300 = the same as 2*150......

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by Rudmer
wow, my calculator says 300 = the same as 2*150......

and he's a teacher so he knows !!!

rgds Kj

[Goatsemaster]

Since when is what rank he is an indicator for his representation of WP? Every alliance should know that everyone who posts with their name in their sig affects their reputation.

Of course HC and officers will often be held more accountable for it, because we don't expect them to behave like idiots. But then Eclipse let people like Focht loose on the forums so why shouldn't WP be allowed a TheACE?

[WP][Ely][Eclipse][LDK][Fury][vts][RaH][nos][AIM][more]

[Tesla]

Originally posted by ******master
Since when is what rank he is an indicator for his representation of WP? Every alliance should know that everyone who posts with their name in their sig affects their reputation.

Of course HC and officers will often be held more accountable for it, because we don't expect them to behave like idiots. But then Eclipse let people like Focht loose on the forums so why shouldn't WP be allowed a TheACE?

[WP][Ely][Eclipse][LDK][Fury][vts][RaH][nos][AIM][more]

?
Did Focht write anything wrong that I couldn't read, or did u just forfill ur everlasting dream of flameing him ?

[Banned]

Originally posted by Tesla
?
Did Focht write anything wrong that I couldn't read, or did u just forfill ur everlasting dream of flameing him ?

Ain't nothing there about Focht being an idiot in this thread.

[Fifth_teletubbie]

Originally posted by Banned
Ain't nothing there about Focht being an idiot in this thread.

That's uncommonly generous of you....
Are you going soft on me?

[TheACE]

i am still thinking of the time xtothez asked me to join Ely as a FC. I had saved the Ely-HC gal of droping out of the t250 by covering almost all planets (i forgot to do 1, my own). He was so happy he asked me to join, i didnt i liked WP to much (sorry rez, elysia). when the round ended xtothez asked the same question again and i said i would think about it. the outcome was that i didnt want to mis all the wolves and especial Cali and Catwoman, so again i didnt join Ely ass an FC.

I dont say what i did was so special, but i did it many times (cover my gal m8ts) so i dont understand why in this post is said that i am so bad???

About this post: i know i started it wrong, that happend becouse i was a good student of Jurgen and drunk to much when i started it (NO, NOT ALL DUTCH PPL DRINK TO MUCH, befor u start that)
i said i was sorry, but for the once of u that r slow in understanding i'll say it again.

i am sorry

so, hope that was it and we will continue this post (if we didnt already) with the question "to block o not to block, thats the question?"

PS: (for all u dum once) THIS IS JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OFFICIAL WolfPack STATUS.

[Ace]

Originally posted by TheACE
*Snip*

About this post: i know i started it wrong, that happend becouse i was a good student of Jurgen and drunk to much when i started it (NO, NOT ALL DUTCH PPL DRINK TO MUCH, befor u start that)
i

Nope your right about that....a lot of Dutchies don't drink at all

[xtothez]

Originally posted by TheACE
i am still thinking of the time xtothez asked me to join Ely as a FC. I had saved the Ely-HC gal of droping out of the t250 by covering almost all planets (i forgot to do 1, my own). He was so happy he asked me to join, i didnt i liked WP to much (sorry rez, elysia). when the round ended xtothez asked the same question again and i said i would think about it. the outcome was that i didnt want to mis all the wolves and especial Cali and Catwoman, so again i didnt join Ely ass an FC.

liar

[pig]

Originally posted by TheACE
i am still thinking of the time xtothez asked me to join Ely as a FC. I had saved the Ely-HC gal of droping out of the t250 by covering almost all planets (i forgot to do 1, my own). He was so happy he asked me to join, i didnt i liked WP to much (sorry rez, elysia). when the round ended xtothez asked the same question again and i said i would think about it. the outcome was that i didnt want to mis all the wolves and especial Cali and Catwoman, so again i didnt join Ely ass an FC.

/me passes theace a trumpet

[Maddix]

Originally posted by TheACE
i am still thinking of the time xtothez asked me to join Ely as a FC. I had saved the Ely-HC gal of droping out of the t250 by covering almost all planets (i forgot to do 1, my own). He was so happy he asked me to join, i didnt i liked WP to much (sorry rez, elysia). when the round ended xtothez asked the same question again and i said i would think about it. the outcome was that i didnt want to mis all the wolves and especial Cali and Catwoman, so again i didnt join Ely ass an FC.

I dont say what i did was so special, but i did it many times (cover my gal m8ts) so i dont understand why in this post is said that i am so bad???

I think people are saying you are a retard, not a bad player. Altho tbh "whoopie doo" your DCing saved a galaxy - how many DCs have not done that?

[Catwoman]

heh no wonder i dont bother reading in here.
blocking, i disagree with, thats why WP went alone in 9.5 and it was great not having to bother with politics rubbish.
as for WP officers we have alot of different departments to run and we have different officers to do different jobs. some may be mil officers some defence, some recruiting. each is chosen for his or her skills at that job.
and I agree with provider, any member is free to speak for himself, this dosnt mean its the view of WP or anyone else for that matter. We do have our own thoughts on everything as I am sure you all do . Hugs for the roids last round I will be back for more in X.

[Fifth_teletubbie]

Originally posted by TheACE
i am still thinking of the time xtothez asked me to join Ely as a FC. I had saved the Ely-HC gal of droping out of the t250 by covering almost all planets (i forgot to do 1, my own). He was so happy he asked me to join, i didnt i liked WP to much (sorry rez, elysia). when the round ended xtothez asked the same question again and i said i would think about it. the outcome was that i didnt want to mis all the wolves and especial Cali and Catwoman, so again i didnt join Ely ass an FC.

Originally posted by xtothez
liar

I sense the potential for a _very_ amusing discussion here, please carry on.....

[Razorback]

Originally posted by Banned
Ain't nothing there about Focht being an idiot in this thread.

Have the other kids been mean to you in the special school ?

Everyone knows you are an idiot, otherwise you wouldnt need 2 accounts to post. So beeing insulted by you gets noone really annoyed or hurt anymore.

P.S. you should try to play pa once instead of "multiing" on these boards, you might actually learn that this forum is an addon to an online game and not the game itself.

P.P.S. Now tell your mom that even the ppl on the online forum were mean to you so you get your hug and attention for today

[TheACE]

why? i already said sorry

and about the other thing: i bet we can talk about that ourselfs, dont u think

[xtothez]

Originally posted by Fifth_teletubbie
I sense the potential for a _very_ amusing discussion here, please carry on.....

There's nothing to discuss. His post is a complete fabrication. At no point was TheACE ever invited to Ely, least of all as a BC and certainly not by me (I was only a BC/MO in r7). Even if he was active and competant enough to join us (which he wasn't) the gal already had more Ely players then we considered safe (8-9 out of a 15-man gal). We asked WP HC for a couple of token WP players so our gal wasn't pure Ely, they gave us TheACE and Loonatick, as well as the distinct impression Rabba couldn't offload them anywhere else.

Needless to say they didn't impress with ability or activity. Which is nicely summarised in my quote to rez while planning for a private gal in round 8 (before they announced random planets):

[21:12] <XtoTheZ> we could do with a couple of extra players from other allies
[21:13] <XtoTheZ> and by that i dont mean TheACE and Loonatick :/
[21:13] <XtoTheZ> if i want that caliber i'd go ask in #planetarion
[21:13] <rez> lol

[hook]

Originally posted by TheACE
i am still thinking of the time xtothez asked me to join Ely as a FC. I had saved the Ely-HC gal of droping out of the t250 by covering almost all planets (i forgot to do 1, my own). He was so happy he asked me to join, i didnt i liked WP to much (sorry rez, elysia). when the round ended xtothez asked the same question again and i said i would think about it. the outcome was that i didnt want to mis all the wolves and especial Cali and Catwoman, so again i didnt join Ely ass an FC.

I dont say what i did was so special, but i did it many times (cover my gal m8ts) so i dont understand why in this post is said that i am so bad???

Rabba should really lock you and your bs stories in a cage.

[Fifth_teletubbie]

Originally posted by TheACE

and about the other thing: i bet we can talk about that ourselfs, dont u think

Originally posted by xtothez
There's nothing to discuss. His post is a complete fabrication. At no point was TheACE ever invited to Ely, least of all as a BC and certainly not by me (I was only a BC/MO in r7). Even if he was active and competant enough to join us (which he wasn't) the gal already had more Ely players then we considered safe (8-9 out of a 15-man gal). We asked WP HC for a couple of token WP players so our gal wasn't pure Ely, they gave us TheACE and Loonatick, as well as the distinct impression Rabba couldn't offload them anywhere else.

Needless to say they didn't impress with ability or activity. Which is nicely summarised in my quote to rez while planning for a private gal in round 8 (before they announced random planets):

[21:12] <XtoTheZ> we could do with a couple of extra players from other allies
[21:13] <XtoTheZ> and by that i dont mean TheACE and Loonatick :/
[21:13] <XtoTheZ> if i want that caliber i'd go ask in #planetarion
[21:13] <rez> lol

yup, highly amusing

[Cochese]

Originally posted by TheACE
Is it right that blocking is allowed again???

It wasn't ever disallowed per say; more that it was almost..."socially unacceptable" for lack of a better term.

People feared blocks more than SARS, and were ready with a Warren Commission Part Deux whenever a rumor surfaced.

It's all quite silly, really.

this is just a question, what is your opinion about these thinks

I think it's BS, but then again I don't really give a toss. Whoever "blocks" "first" knows exactly what will happen, as do we all...so I try not to think about going down that road *again*.

and do u think PA alliances should allie again to echother???

Cooperation between alliances isn't the problem, and never was. A discussion upon this premise would take pages, and likely end up closed with lots and lots of the same people flaming each other, while arguing about past rounds.

[Banned]

Originally posted by Razorback
Have the other kids been mean to you in the special school ?

Yes. Repeatedly. I come online to take it out on people I feel are inferior. Really though, it's just to cover up my own insecurities. How about you?

Everyone knows you are an idiot, otherwise you wouldnt need 2 accounts to post. So beeing insulted by you gets noone really annoyed or hurt anymore.

I have two accounts because one of them was mistakingly banned. I use many different browsers on different machines, the result being that I'm logged in with different accounts depending on where I'm browsing from. It's got nothing to do with needing extra accounts to whatever it is you seem to think I'm trying to achieve by having two.

P.S. you should try to play pa once instead of "multiing" on these boards, you might actually learn that this forum is an addon to an online game and not the game itself.

Ironic* how your anti-vouch stopped me from joining Eclipse for round 9.5, which led to me quitting the round as it was the only alliance I wanted to join.

P.P.S. Now tell your mom that even the ppl on the online forum were mean to you so you get your hug and attention for today

My mother suggested I fly an airliner into your house. Those wacky muslims, eh?

Stepping back for a moment, and looking at the truth of the matter: My opinion is that many of your posts make your alliance look bad. I say this as an observer who has followed Eclipse since its beginning. I also think you've made decisions that have led or would have led your alliance into a bad position (cf post-r9 anti-Eclipse sentiments).

But keep in mind that I'm refering not to you as a person. I don't know you. Many people think that what we type and 'say' on this forum is 'real' in the sense of being more meaningful than a random string of ones and zeros. I say you're an idiot, I mean that the representation you present on this forum is weak and ill-conceived. AD is a 'battleground' of sorts, and I'm criticizing your tactics (albeit not constructively, I don't care enough about you to want to do that).

If you wish to continue to be offended by my opinions, feel free, but if you actually want me to stop, trying to flame me isn't going to get you anywhere.

Jester

* Actually it's not ironic, but it makes my point and while I should go enlighten myself as to the exact terminology, I'm busy posting an answer to Cochese.

[Banned]

Originally posted by Cochese
Cooperation between alliances isn't the problem, and never was. A discussion upon this premise would take pages, and likely end up closed with lots and lots of the same people flaming each other, while arguing about past rounds.

I'll bite.

The problem is not cooperation per se, but the perception of the cooperation, its goals and possible consequences. To avoid rehashing old rounds, I'm going to present a hypothetical situation.

Consider this:
There are three mainstay alliances, the Lions, the Tigers and the Bears. In addition, there are 4-5 'second tier' alliances (second tier alliances would be those that are often perceived as powerful but not candidates for winning the round). Since there are three mainstay alliances, all of them are worried that one of the two others should gain an upper hand.

Now for some subjective viewpoints. In my opinion, a sensible HC will hedge their bets without making commitments. If it is known that none of the other alliances are commited, then you can freely approach others to make sure you're on good relations with a set of alliances that can and will back you up. To avoid this becoming an issue of 'flak', the best way is usually to present a common enemy that can be fought off 'if they come into a position of power'.

Unfortunately, not everyone thinks this way. PA is more fun when politics are fluid. Stagnant (not in the ingame stagnation sense) long term agreements generally lead to a heavy reduction in options. If the Lions and Tigers commit to an alliance before the round has begun, they are already agreeing that any victory must be shared*. Even worse are relationships** that last more than one round. These serve to isolate alliances from other potential options. It also leads to other alliances considering these partners to be a unit. If the Lions and Bunnies (a second tier alliance) have been allied for 2 or 3 rounds, people will automatically assume that any agreement with either of them is a 'secondary' or 'auxiliary' position, to be shed when appropriate (and since they're two against one, this is no desirable position).

An issue that arrives solely when private galaxies are formed is that of 'gal filler'. Alliance leaders often feel that they must control the gal fillers for different reasons. For example, the leader of the Bears insists that allowing a non-allied member into one of their galaxies would be a security hazard. A side effect of such a policy is that it becomes incredibly difficult to change allies during the round to suit new political landscapes or to breath life into a dying round.

Now, I've made many points against pre-round agreements. But initially I stated that the problem is the perception of 'blocks'. The problem with pre-round agreements is that they tend to lead to arms races. They lead to arms races due to the perception they breed. If Lions and Bunnies ally before the round has started, Bears and Tigers immediately feel threatened. The problem is that is not what L/B is or is not, it's what people think they are. And if they act on it, rather than prepare for it, L/B need to counter. Since it's an arms race with a limited supply of discretely and differently sized weapons***, a block/counter-block situation generally leads to uneven sides. The fact is that Planetarion is a very simple game, and simplifying the alliance political situation (which is what lends depth to PA) to a for/against block situation really does ruin the tapestry.

As per usual I'll leave conclusions up to the reader.

* This is much more true in a private galaxy situation. But often a random galaxy situation will lead to a more tenuous lead and thus bind allies tighter until a longer 'bashing' period has cemented the victory (noting here that neither are truly willing to risk not ending up second if they lose a conflict with the other).

** As an aside (and follow-up to my previous post), I blame Focht for Eclipse' 'longlasting' relationship with ToT. As you can see, I don't find this to be a good thing.

*** That is, alliances don't tend to overlap, and are generally of different member counts and overall quality. So even a side that's split even on numbers can be an walk-over victory for one side.

[Cochese]

Good post.

I suppose the main problem with alliances cooperating together is usually the terms they set up their argeement(s) within, and moreso, the people involved at the highest levels on each side.

[Razorback]

Since you were able to give me a clear point for discussion i will reply to your post. First of all i must state that during the time in eclipse pre r9 i had no bad impression from you and the calling you an idiot resulted from your way to reply rather from your educational background.

Originally posted by Banned
Ironic* how your anti-vouch stopped me from joining Eclipse for round 9.5, which led to me quitting the round as it was the only alliance I wanted to join.

I dont know where you get your informations from but you should check some more sources, the only part which is true in this context is that i indeed antivouched you, but i wasnt alone in this case. The main point was you leaving us in the hang about your activity pre r9 and stranding us without a proper techsupport shortly before round started. Without even giving us a warning before or why you left. Further some of your anti-eclipse (note in this period you didnt post anti Focht) posts leaded to the discussion to not accept you (back) in eclipse. If you want to put the blame completely on me, that is your good right, but its far from the truth.

Stepping back for a moment, and looking at the truth of the matter: My opinion is that many of your posts make your alliance look bad. I say this as an observer who has followed Eclipse since its beginning. I also think you've made decisions that have led or would have led your alliance into a bad position (cf post-r9 anti-Eclipse sentiments).

Most of my posts are corrections and replys to original posters trying to turn a topic against eclipse, i invite you to find a thread actually started by me or where i stormed in to make such an impression. I agree with you that you might have observed Eclipse since the beginning, but also i dont think that AD has alot to do with the real politics in pa, so a general trend of anti-eclipse sentiments is simply wrong. To most of our r9 enemies i have a very good contact nowadays, Especially Olympians or Elysium, who infact were the "mainlosers" in r9. The only 2 fractions i personally have no respect or good relationships to would be Rah and dragons. In the first case coming from Petrus inability to accept eclipse didnt follow him like a lapdog and him blaming eclipse and me personally for Rahs pounding. You might join or feel that this group presents "pa" but infact its a small fraction.
Dragons (i dont know most of them personally and the ex-eclipsemembers in it, lo mactanzu, i even like) bad impression come mostly from my believe that they abused their mainalliances and were unloyal to them (Eclipse removed all or most dragons from its ranks for this evaluation, which was indeed found by the complete highcouncil, mac admitted spying aswell) and gorgorth poor behaviour in r9. Infact maybe coming as a surprise for you but the r9.5 interests for alliances was long and from many fractions you may consider anti-eclipse.
On the otherhand if you were refering anti-eclipse to purely AD posters, some of it is a big show, ppl like Webangel and KJ and others are really nice lads on irc while they simply like to argue over here.
If you refer on my typing skills and some of the structures i use. i admit im not that good, actually never have been. Its simply not my native language and i dont have a problem to admit that or try to hide it.

But keep in mind that I'm refering not to you as a person. I don't know you. Many people think that what we type and 'say' on this forum is 'real' in the sense of being more meaningful than a random string of ones and zeros. I say you're an idiot, I mean that the representation you present on this forum is weak and ill-conceived. AD is a 'battleground' of sorts, and I'm criticizing your tactics (albeit not constructively, I don't care enough about you to want to do that).

I can live with that but i guess everyone has this impression about someone else, taking your analogy of a battleground, we are all warriors on opposit sides, so clearly all what you write is propaganda while everything i write is pure wisdom (atleast from my side). And in your views is changed around. (If i wasnt so selfcynical to know i write alot of bs, and i cant really tell for you as i dont know you)

If you wish to continue to be offended by my opinions, feel free, but if you actually want me to stop, trying to flame me isn't going to get you anywhere.

Jester

* Actually it's not ironic, but it makes my point and while I should go enlighten myself as to the exact terminology, I'm busy posting an answer to Cochese.

Infact i dont care that much, most of my replies are short time entertainments And i only gave you the same back during a break from the pool. I dont wear any grudges against you and if you do feel free to pm me and show them to me, so we know if its based on the truth or on 2nd hand impressions and opinions.

[Banned]

Originally posted by Razorback
First of all i must state that during the time in eclipse pre r9 i had no bad impression from you and the calling you an idiot resulted from your way to reply rather from your educational background.

Fair enough. I had few encounters with you in Eclipse, as you were hardly active in the pre-round phase. The one time we spoke 'at length' left me feeling uncomfortable (as you'd basically asked me to do you a big personal favor that had nothing to do with the game or Eclipse).

I dont know where you get your informations from but you should check some more sources, the only part which is true in this context is that i indeed antivouched you, but i wasnt alone in this case.

I know, with three HC anti-vouches it's hard to join an alliance. But my point stands. Your vote would've swung the decision. Just as Killghost and Olrik's would have.

The main point was you leaving us in the hang about your activity pre r9 and stranding us without a proper techsupport shortly before round started. Without even giving us a warning before or why you left.

I did give you warning, it's not my fault that your HC team did not communicate this on to you. I would've thought that Killghost had caught on to the fact that I was displeased with the position when I started insulting him to his face, but obviously he's just that dense. I also told him some of the why afterwards, but he didn't accept it. Fact is that I felt like he was breathing down my neck and prodding me with a stick while at the same time asking me to explain every little action I took.

I'd also like to point out that I was in no way interested in anything besides a member position in round 9.5. I was already BCing an Eclipse Attack Group and had no interest in expanding my responsibilities.

Further some of your anti-eclipse (note in this period you didnt post anti Focht) posts leaded to the discussion to not accept you (back) in eclipse. If you want to put the blame completely on me, that is your good right, but its far from the truth.

I made some objective posts that could be construed as Eclipse critical. But I was banned from the forums for a month from a little before ticks started (which was before my application) and until I regged a new account about 5 weeks after (at which point I'd already stopped logging into my planet).

Most of my posts are corrections and replys to original posters trying to turn a topic against eclipse

Not all your posts are crap, not all your posts are great, but some of them are out-right embarassing. It may just be the structure you refer to, but sometimes it seems like you're a Kjel.

i invite you to find a thread actually started by me

Taking this out of context is humorous. To be honest, a think a lot of you reactionaries are mostly worthless for the forum because you never ever contribute threads.

I agree with you that you might have observed Eclipse since the beginning, but also i dont think that AD has alot to do with the real politics in pa, so a general trend of anti-eclipse sentiments is simply wrong.

I'm going to have to ask you to withdraw the assumption that I only rely on AD for information. You know nearly naught of who I talk to regularly on IRC and shouldn't be so quick to make assumptions.

To most of our r9 enemies i have a very good contact nowadays, Especially Olympians or Elysium, who infact were the "mainlosers" in r9.

Yes, LDK were very good at loosening tentions. You'll note I said post-r9. We're now in the post-r9.5 period, a full round later and many grudges have been buried.

The only 2 fractions i personally have no respect or good relationships to would be Rah and dragons. In the first case coming from Petrus inability to accept eclipse didnt follow him like a lapdog and him blaming eclipse and me personally for Rahs pounding. You might join or feel that this group presents "pa" but infact its a small fraction.
Dragons (i dont know most of them personally and the ex-eclipsemembers in it, lo mactanzu, i even like) bad impression come mostly from my believe that they abused their mainalliances and were unloyal to them (Eclipse removed all or most dragons from its ranks for this evaluation, which was indeed found by the complete highcouncil, mac admitted spying aswell) and gorgorth poor behaviour in r9. Infact maybe coming as a surprise for you but the r9.5 interests for alliances was long and from many fractions you may consider anti-eclipse.

Dragons 'owned' you. It's really pathetic how much they got away with compared to their ranks in the top100. They had a one-time shot at abusing alliances like yours' laziness, and they seem to have spent all of it sucking LDK's willy. As for RaH, that's an ugly issue which you've displayed your full ignorance about. To be honest, I don't have much of an opinion on what was done. The round was already handed to you, and who you want to play with is your perogative. I have friends in RaH, but I also have friends in other alliances. Someone's toes are always going to be stepped on, and that's when we have to remember that this is still a game and while it is possible and fun to play alongside your friends, it should also be possible to play against them.

On the otherhand if you were refering anti-eclipse to purely AD posters, some of it is a big show, ppl like Webangel and KJ and others are really nice lads on irc while they simply like to argue over here.

I'm almost shocked at this massive underestimation of AD. Many posters here (not Kjel) have influence on 'normal players', which in turn affects choices made by high commanders. While AD is not truth, nor absolute, it is an important part of the game where wars can be won before the round even starts.

If you refer on my typing skills and some of the structures i use. i admit im not that good, actually never have been. Its simply not my native language and i dont have a problem to admit that or try to hide it.

You're right, I may just be transferring my own insecurities and attacking you to feel better about myself. I don't think so, but it's possible.

I can live with that but i guess everyone has this impression about someone else, taking your analogy of a battleground, we are all warriors on opposit sides, so clearly all what you write is propaganda while everything i write is pure wisdom (atleast from my side). And in your views is changed around. (If i wasnt so selfcynical to know i write alot of bs, and i cant really tell for you as i dont know you)

Except we're not actually on different sides, and I'm actually honest*, if not wise.

Infact i dont care that much, most of my replies are short time entertainments And i only gave you the same back during a break from the pool. I dont wear any grudges against you and if you do feel free to pm me and show them to me, so we know if its based on the truth or on 2nd hand impressions and opinions.

The only grudge I really bear is that you were the epitome of a trend in Eclipse that I truly despised. A bunch of people who figured Eclipse was just Fury without the troublesome techies. Seeing you post on AD fueled it, because you still had 'Fury Exec' and 'T&P Exec' in your sig, but not 'Eclipse CEO'. I still find it despicable that you rank yourself as HC of an alliance and a battlegroup that no longer exist** when you at the same time try to claim that Eclipse is not Fury II.

All the Fury (and to an extent Xanadu) pride in Eclipse was not only annoying, but served to drive a wedge between them and me (possibly 'us', but I don't really know anyone else that saw it the same way I did).

So to me, your sig spits on the alliance I was an officer of. And you were my superior.

*ahahahhahahahhaa

** in PA

[Banned]

Originally posted by Cochese
Good post.

I suppose the main problem with alliances cooperating together is usually the terms they set up their argeement(s) within, and moreso, the people involved at the highest levels on each side.

Thanks. And I believe you're quite right.

[Razorback]

@ Jester, please read my sig, since day 1 of eclipse i have "eclipse ceo" in it.
About my "ex jobs" surely im still proud to have been there, and alot of ppl still have their old alliances in their signature, i personally see nothing wrong with it, aslong as some ppl naming all their planets etc.

About the post r9 climate, i guess it came down to the normal ways, the beaten ones swearing revenge and trying to achieve that goal.
As to my inactivity pre r9, indeed i had exams and after that i was pretty much online 24/7 as sad as it is-

I dont think i underestimated AD, i said and you might look it up that alot is pure show here, some ppl like you on some occasions just come to stirr up something or to fall back in their old stories about a long lost round. This is by far no generalisation towards all AD posters. What you think about my contributions to threads is pretty much unimportant to me, because your statement doesnt display in the slightest the discussions i took part in. You should maybe reread your own replys and you will find them far more destructive and unconstructive in alot of ways (sidenote you even wrote that yourself in the thread you characterized your "career")
About your sentiments towards eclipses moral, i find it rather hillarious to hear this statement from you. Seeing alot of the ppl started a new alliance and we didnt even recruit fully when you left you cant exspect anyone to start posting "proud to be eclipse" spamposts on the boards so you feel home. This is a development which needs time and actually a challenge to the alliance, which only a played round can give.

P.S. You are wrong about the antivouches, a single antivouch would have stopped you from joining, and you had actually 4, you named yourself that Kg was insulted by you which might have made him antivouch. More entertaining is indeed the fact after all your sentiments and the pure aggrivation eclipse cause you, you still tried to rejoin us and exspected us to welcome you with open arms.

[Banned]

More entertaining is indeed the fact after all your sentiments and the pure aggrivation eclipse cause you, you still tried to rejoin us and exspected us to welcome you with open arms.

Yes, it seems funny, doesn't it? I mean, why would someone want to join an alliance they have issues with?

I'm going to stop now before I just string a bunch of random insults together.

Suffice it to say that you've completely misunderstood my relationship to Eclipse.

As for my posts being destructive and so on. Yes, some/many are. I've never claimed they weren't. People in glass houses shouldn't through stones, but shouldn't isn't can't.

[Scouse]

Originally posted by Razorback
@ Jester, please read my sig, since day 1 of eclipse i have "eclipse ceo" in it.

I always wondered out of everyone from Fury, why you got to be CEO of Eclipse. But I assume it's simply the fact that you had the determination after round 8 to make something new, whereas other people didn't. Zhil being inactive from round 8, and Germ licking his wounds and staying away from PA altogether over the Christmas period.

I think everyone, including myself, expected Zhil to be running 'the next Fury' (not having a dig, you know what I mean). Given your Executives I would have thought a straight forward HC team would have been more productive, than a CEO/Exec set-up.

I know nothing of your relationship with your command team though, or the inner workings of Eclipse, I'm simply stating my assumptions.

[Banned]

Focht got it because he didn't fit into any departments, all the others were filled by people more competent than him. Go figure.

[isildurx]

Originally posted by Banned
Focht got it because he didn't fit into any departments, all the others were filled by people more competent than him. Go figure.

hehe =)