Planetarion Forums - Fake spend cheating

Nadar · 3 Jun 2006, 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace

Only reason i speak my mind in this thread is, I know who they talk about and I had the feeling i knew him and thought he would not go so low as this.

And yes I call it low since I can understand the reasons for spending res before you land to lower score to get more XP but spending it to hit targets you normally can't hit I see as low.

Your mate (I got no idea who you guys are talking about) is smart though. He's playing within the rules and what the game mechanics allows him to. Don't ever point finger at people playing within the rules, point finger at the rules instead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace

And for your comment on cov opping;

I allways disliked cov opping I see it as a chicken attack, no way of knowing who did it if it doesn't fail, hardly a way of defending against it and the person doesn't have to spend travel time to and from a planet.

But as long as it's part of the game I will have to live with it

The cov-opping was just an example of what could be the next whinebject (subject). I'll agree that cov-op sucks though, but that's another story.

Appocomaster · 3 Jun 2006, 16:12

This won't be possible next round, it's on the todo list to not build ships or scan while the game is ticking

robban1 · 3 Jun 2006, 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

This won't be possible next round, it's on the todo list to not build ships or scan while the game is ticking

good maybe it can be done for r25 then.. alvays nice than you guys support cheatings and bug abuse

Appocomaster · 3 Jun 2006, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by robban1

good maybe it can be done for r25 then.. alvays nice than you guys support cheatings and bug abuse

I'll be the one laughing at you when it's not possible next round.

robban1 · 3 Jun 2006, 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

I'll be the one laughing at you when it's not possible next round.

ofc you will,, didnt expect anything else from you.

Sebos · 3 Jun 2006, 17:05

was reading this today and a thought occoured to me.

If said planet were to spent all his res he would end up with a similar score in a few ticks to what he/ she had with the res saved. if said planet is at the top and 10mil how can he/ she hit planets below them if when they spend res they will gain loads and then all other planets cept about 3 will be un hittable and those that can still be hit are prolly in the same alliance meaning there is no way for the 10mil planet to hit anyone. this leaves the 10 mil planet with 2 options either hoard res and basically stop playing. or use the 'flaw'/ 'feature' / 'yet another thing that ppl didn't think about and saw someone do it and now dnt like it'.

Sebos

Ace · 3 Jun 2006, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dryph

was reading this today and a thought occoured to me.

If said planet were to spent all his res he would end up with a similar score in a few ticks to what he/ she had with the res saved. if said planet is at the top and 10mil how can he/ she hit planets below them if when they spend res they will gain loads and then all other planets cept about 3 will be un hittable and those that can still be hit are prolly in the same alliance meaning there is no way for the 10mil planet to hit anyone. this leaves the 10 mil planet with 2 options either hoard res and basically stop playing. or use the 'flaw'/ 'feature' / 'yet another thing that ppl didn't think about and saw someone do it and now dnt like it'.

Sebos

That hes left with no targets was in a way the idea of spinner when he introduced the new way of playing PA.
It would keep the top planets closer to the lower planets so that they could attack them.
Only downside to it atm is that the top planets (not all ofc) save their res to not outgrow the rest of the uni so they still got targets to attack.

But atm i think all the targets he can normally hit are allied or friendly

Tough luck i would say all in the game, I think his DCs would love to see all those def fleets he could send to his alliance m8s instead

robban1 · 3 Jun 2006, 19:39

kinda intressting that they did the code today just cos more than me started to nag about it o.O

Paisley · 3 Jun 2006, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by wielklem

i agree the way they abuse it to attack smaller planets is enough reason for deletion

I would have to disagree...
To me it seems a valid tactic to use

Personally I like to hit ppl with my strongest fleet possible.
meaning I rarely store large amounts of res.

One tactic I have used in a battlegroup. against planets with large stockpiles planets...
Caths in particular.

Is to hit them with several various types of incs.

ie 1st wave fi
2nd wave co
3d wave BS

Which means the cath doesnt get cover he has to spend 3 ways rather than 1 way. and when they spend and dont have enough ships.
more value = more xp

Nadar · 3 Jun 2006, 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by robban1

kinda intressting that they did the code today just cos more than me started to nag about it o.O

Yes, I'm sure this thread pushed them over the edge

robban1 · 3 Jun 2006, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadar

Yes, I'm sure this thread pushed them over the edge

well you for sure didnt help so np

Nadar · 3 Jun 2006, 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by robban1

well you for sure didnt help so np

I can't remember I posted about what direction PA Team should take on the matter?

Appocomaster · 3 Jun 2006, 21:25

i seem to remember, when the world cup was announced, several people claiming it was their input that caused it to happen. I don't see how this is any different.

Pilatus · 3 Jun 2006, 21:36

Ffs, robban show a little respect please. Just because ppl in here disagree with you, don't mean that they try to ruin the game.Pa-team and the rest of is usually interested in making the game better. And do you honestly think that the pa-team would put all their effort in ruining the game, instead of trying to make the game as good as possible for all those who's playing?

ATRO · 3 Jun 2006, 22:01

Its a fact of life that you cant please everyone, where some dislike the spend res trick some like. If pateam block that issue people will find something else to concentrate their dislikes upon. I personally dont like it but its there for this round so we live with it and deal with it and agree with Pilatus that pa-team wouldnt intentionally code something into the game to spoil it for people. I say if there is something you dislike and have a suggestion air it by all means but dont flame them for doing their best to provide us with a game we want to enjoy.

rain · 4 Jun 2006, 11:54

Sometimes rules/bugs are changed/fixed in the middle of the round. Surprised? I'm not. Sometimes they just let them being abused.
Since the game have the same admins, the question is why do they hurry "fixing"
things only when they want to fix 'em? And i'm not talking about this only bug, which is btw used by the planets with stashed resources only.
Admins, you are full of crap and you're showing it every round. Coming with excuses like "it's on to do list" or it's hard to code, only brings up your true nature.

Treveler · 4 Jun 2006, 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by robban1

kinda intressting that they did the code today just cos more than me started to nag about it o.O

I approached the PA team about the value trick and was told it was legal. A day or two later I got a pm from appoco (I think) telling me it would be fixed for next round. That was at least a week before this thread was made.

Nadar · 4 Jun 2006, 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treveler

I approached the PA team about the value trick and was told it was legal. A day or two later I got a pm from appoco (I think) telling me it would be fixed for next round. That was at least a week before this thread was made.

And Desse (think it was him?) made a thread about it last round so everyone could know about it

Tietäjä · 4 Jun 2006, 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treveler

I approached the PA team about the value trick and was told it was legal. A day or two later I got a pm from appoco (I think) telling me it would be fixed for next round. That was at least a week before this thread was made.

It'd be funny if he said it's illegal, as this should lead to closures or at least severe punishing of several top planets. It's so widely and blatantly abused that just "it's impossible to enforce" doesn't cut it when you can just look at sandmans and see who'se doing what. I'm not sure if the game logs it too or not.

edit. minor (read: major) misintepretion - hehe, yes, he said it's legal - and that's what he said to me too, saying it's legal because "there is no way it can be enforced should it be "illegal"" - it was either assassin or appoco.

Ace · 4 Jun 2006, 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by rain

Sometimes rules/bugs are changed/fixed in the middle of the round. Surprised? I'm not. Sometimes they just let them being abused.
Since the game have the same admins, the question is why do they hurry "fixing"
things only when they want to fix 'em? And i'm not talking about this only bug, which is btw used by the planets with stashed resources only.
Admins, you are full of crap and you're showing it every round. Coming with excuses like "it's on to do list" or it's hard to code, only brings up your true nature.

I got no clue what your trying to say there m8 but I think your trying to say they are only fixing bugs they feel help one side of the uni and not the things helping the other side ?????

rain · 4 Jun 2006, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace

I got no clue what your trying to say there m8 but I think your trying to say they are only fixing bugs they feel help one side of the uni and not the things helping the other side ?????

Let's see.
Planets were closed few rounds ago for defending tag planets while being out of tag. Support planets they say. While that practice I see it as an abuse and I fully agree that planets out of tag should be closed if repetitive defences were made toward the same alliance, I can't help myself noticing nothing was done against some other alliance who abused the ally fund this round. Admins knew about it, they admit it it was a bad idea and it was abused, though no one did anything to change it. Going back to that quote, Ace, "support planets" thingy was abused by a certain alliance only, alliance fund was hugely abused by another alliance. And you know, sometimes this kind of details make the difference.

Ace · 4 Jun 2006, 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by rain

Let's see.
Planets were closed few rounds ago for defending tag planets while being out of tag. Support planets they say. While that practice I see it as an abuse and I fully agree that planets out of tag should be closed if repetitive defences were made toward the same alliance, I can't help myself noticing nothing was done against some other alliance who abused the ally fund this round. Admins knew about it, they admit it it was a bad idea and it was abused, though no one did anything to change it. Going back to that quote, Ace, "support planets" thingy was abused by a certain alliance only, alliance fund was hugely abused by another alliance. And you know, sometimes this kind of details make the difference.

I'm not going to defend anyone here but IMO the def planets thing was proven I haven't seen any proof of the alliance fund abuse only seen ppl posting "their view" on what was going on.
Correct me if I'm wrong but thats no proof.

rain · 4 Jun 2006, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace

I'm not going to defend anyone here but IMO the def planets thing was proven I haven't seen any proof of the alliance fund abuse only seen ppl posting "their view" on what was going on.
Correct me if I'm wrong but thats no proof.

Anything can be proven. There are ally funds logs that can be checked. Admins did it and confirmed(without giving names ofc) that some alliance abused it. But since it's not coded and there's no rule to forbid planets that only stay for a short period(can be 5 minutes or 5 days or the whole round, it's the same thing) to donate the whole incoming which later is not used by donors but by other planets in tag, there's nothing anyone can do. Except admins. And they didn't do sh*t. Ofcourse I can't prove anything, no one except alliances HCs and admins can see those donations. I can't blame those HC too much. They saw the bug, it fitted perfectly with their alliance strategy for this round, used it in ally interest. Low morality? Few care about it. But admins? They saw it too and did nothing. Again, WHY?

Kal · 4 Jun 2006, 20:43

as with the defence things and support planets there is a line that needs to be crossed for it to be evident that a planet is by the eula's defintion a support planet - there is a similar line for the alliance fund items - if people cross it they will of course be closed. If you read the relevant eula item it may sound to you quite general but in reality it is quite specific as to what a support planet is.

JonnyBGood · 4 Jun 2006, 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by rain

Anything can be proven. There are ally funds logs that can be checked. Admins did it and confirmed(without giving names ofc) that some alliance abused it.

If it was only one alliance then it was probably ascendancy

Nadar · 4 Jun 2006, 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by rain

But admins? They saw it too and did nothing. Again, WHY?

What can they do exactly? No rules have been broken and changing rules or game-code in the middle of a round is a big no-no.

This thread isn't about alliance funds, so hush out of it.

rain · 4 Jun 2006, 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadar

This thread isn't about alliance funds, so hush out of it.

it's about bugs and how admins choose to handle those

Heartless · 4 Jun 2006, 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kal

as with the defence things and support planets there is a line that needs to be crossed for it to be evident that a planet is by the eula's defintion a support planet - there is a similar line for the alliance fund items - if people cross it they will of course be closed. If you read the relevant eula item it may sound to you quite general but in reality it is quite specific as to what a support planet is.

Stop your ****ing wishy-washy definitions and start giving people something to base things on. The thing driving people nuts is that quite a significant amount of game influential tactics are only legal or illegal if the multihunters deem them that way, which is something no single game can accept for longer terms. It might happen short-time if there's no time or way to fix it asap, but there are shitloads of flaws in the game design which simply render it unenjoyable. I repeat what I said on Planetarion Suggestions already:
No successfull game can afford such a state of chaos (it's nothing different) for a long period of time. Imagine a MMORPG would rely on game masters deciding player-vs-player or clan-vs-clan matches depending upon how game master think that the people involved are cheating or not... not acceptable.

Nadar · 4 Jun 2006, 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by rain

it's about bugs and how admins choose to handle those

It's not.

JonnyBGood · 5 Jun 2006, 13:09

It's rather amusing when the number one alliance drops 8 million in score in one tick. If I was an omen dc looking at sandmans I'd just be like "oh ****, not again

" every time it happened.

robban1 · 5 Jun 2006, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

It's rather amusing when the number one alliance drops 8 million in score in one tick. If I was an omen dc looking at sandmans I'd just be like "oh ****, not again

" every time it happened.

well its more of an ass still useing the bug ingame, seems like the guy cant land an attack or send out with out cheating, way to go there

Treveler · 5 Jun 2006, 14:04

Everything you can do we can do better, everything you can do we can do too!

Veil05 · 5 Jun 2006, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by rain

Let's see.
Planets were closed few rounds ago for defending tag planets while being out of tag. Support planets they say. While that practice I see it as an abuse and I fully agree that planets out of tag should be closed if repetitive defences were made toward the same alliance, I can't help myself noticing nothing was done against some other alliance who abused the ally fund this round. Admins knew about it, they admit it it was a bad idea and it was abused, though no one did anything to change it. Going back to that quote, Ace, "support planets" thingy was abused by a certain alliance only, alliance fund was hugely abused by another alliance. And you know, sometimes this kind of details make the difference.

You cant close peoples planets on "Gossip and Hear say". and who exactly is to blame for this? you could only close planets involved, so all you would be closing would be small planets who had no intention of playing and donated.

robban1 · 5 Jun 2006, 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treveler

Everything you can do we can do better, everything you can do we can do too!

well i dont cheat so the question is,do you?

Nadar · 5 Jun 2006, 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by robban1

well i dont cheat so the question is,do you?

Stop trolling around you idiot, no one is cheating. The end*.

*I love stories with a happy ending, especially when robban1 gets tushylove from JBG.

robban1 · 5 Jun 2006, 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadar

Stop trolling around you idiot, no one is cheating. The end*.

*I love stories with a happy ending, especially when robban1 gets tushylove from JBG.

the forum rules doesnt apply on you right?

the planet in question are a cheator according to the eula eod

Nadar · 5 Jun 2006, 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by robban1

the forum rules doesnt apply on you right?

the planet in question are a cheator according to the eula eod

I didn't break the rules more than you did, so close your mouth good and well.

JonnyBGood · 5 Jun 2006, 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by robban1

the planet in question are a cheator according to the eula eod

Which EULA did you read upon signing up?

Quote:

Originally Posted by robban1

well its more of an ass still useing the bug ingame, seems like the guy cant land an attack or send out with out cheating, way to go there

It's almost as bad as all those resources he has stockpiled which make it difficult to attack him. Personally I think he should suicide his entire fleet and let my 25 hornets roid him repeatedly until I have all his roids. After all, anything else would just be filthy cheating!

The melodrama in this thread is overwhelming.

robban1 · 5 Jun 2006, 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Which EULA did you read upon signing up?

18.1.(c) Abusing game features in order to gain excessive XP (e.g. roid farming)

as he use the "feature" to attack small ppl he gets roids and xp f.ex

this apply to alot of 1up muppets out there

so what EULA did you read the you signed up m8?

Nadar · 5 Jun 2006, 15:24

robban1, with some imagination and fantasy you can turn every word into what you want to hear and make it count for whatever you want, just like you did with § 18.1.(c).

JonnyBGood · 5 Jun 2006, 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by robban1

18.1.(c) Abusing game features in order to gain excessive XP (e.g. roid farming)

as he use the "feature" to attack small ppl he gets roids and xp f.ex

this apply to alot of 1up muppets out there

so what EULA did you read the you signed up m8?

You could apply that to building a specific fleet. Get a grip on yourself.

robban1 · 5 Jun 2006, 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

You could apply that to building a specific fleet. Get a grip on yourself.

no i doesnt as the abuse thing apply to the recall productions thingie

JonnyBGood · 5 Jun 2006, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by robban1

no i doesnt as the abuse thing apply to the recall productions thingie

No, look you're defining certain actions as abuse and then using that definition to support your theory that it is abuse. It's appallingly circular logic.

To demonstrate my previous example, watch this! I'm a xan and I build a fleet of FI only. I use this fleet to attack planets which, if I had adopted a more conventional approach I'd find it far more difficult to attack as what my fleet targets is far more narrowly defined. This means that I can hit planets for far more xp. Now, the fact that different ships target different things is a game feature. Through my knowledge of this and my strategy I gain "excessive" xp. I (ab)use game features to gain excessive xp. You could even extend this to cover everyone who doesn't spend the exact same resources on every different ship they can build as they're gaining a focussed fleet which can gain them more xp.

Treveler · 5 Jun 2006, 15:56

Its not abuse just because you name it so. Just like building attack ships only isnt abuse just because I say it is.

Nadar · 5 Jun 2006, 16:08

Let's all just agree that robban1 is the mighty God and his definitions (no matter how obscure) of the rules is the true ones and all the others are wrong.

Jonas · 5 Jun 2006, 16:58

Just make it so that if you spend your res, you only get 90%-95% refund back instead of 100% the first tick.

-J-

robban1 · 5 Jun 2006, 17:32

how come you guys dont even get a sec what i mean and argue vs that for a change? as it is now you talk about other stuff and not about whats in the topic

so are you guys on drugs?.....

jonas that how it is next round m8

Nadar · 5 Jun 2006, 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by robban1

how come you guys dont even get a sec what i mean and argue vs that for a change? as it is now you talk about other stuff and not about whats in the topic

so are you guys on drugs?.....

Wait a minute mister... how do you expect us to understand what you mean when you don't even understand the rules?

Yes yes, clearly we're the ones on drugs here

Kal · 5 Jun 2006, 18:42

another approach to solving the issue of bug abuse would be to have a public bug list indicating the status of the bug, when it will be fixed, what work arounds there are etc. If someone abuses a bug on the public bug list then they violate the eula and should be closed.

The issue with a public bug list is it points out flaws in the game - so perhaps it should only be visible to people with accounts i.e. in game rather than on the portal.

The other issue is that it puts pressure on the coders who are volunteers.

Ace · 5 Jun 2006, 18:50

1 solution could be to send out a mail to state using the bug is not allowed and if done planet will be closed.

Simple solution till bug is fixed.