Planetarion Forums

Phil^ · 24 Apr 2006, 07:35

recently i have been told about someone who has taken over as gc in their galaxy.
This person it would seem has a frantic desire to exile any new member who joins within a matter of hours.
Up till now the previous GC was resisting the attempts - instead telling him to wait at least 48 hours in order to give them a chance.

Do people like this realise just how much harm they are causing the game by discouraging new players?
If i were a newbie and were being exiled around the universe, I know i would feel unwelcome and so would not continue to play

This elistism shown by some is very disturbing to me, and personally I hope they come to their senses before there are no new players left.

What are other peoples opinions on newbies and exiling? It would be interesting to see if my concern is shared among more members of the community and what could be done.

This thread ties in with http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=190611 where there is a thread suggesting a possible remedy to this situation.
Im uncertain about it myself, however the status quo cant remain - imo.

coffee- · 24 Apr 2006, 07:54

Well personally I'm against bouncing planets around.

On the other side, if you are gunning for #1 galaxy I would assume it to be very difficult with a bunch of unpaid accounts in the galaxy.

Ultimate Newbie · 24 Apr 2006, 07:58

I'd have to agree that the behaviour that you highlighted isnt acceptable at all. indeed, 5 hours is a small enough time for people to still be at school, at work, or otherwise entertained due to differing timezones, etc.

The way that galaxies that i've been in (or run) is more fair insofar as we adopt the carrot and stick approach: we send each new person a mail (which we keep to copy & paste

), which says things along the lines of "welcome - this is what we expect from you (saying hi on the gal forums, IRC activity, participating in in-gal defence when able); and this is what you can expect from us (reporting incoming, help with the game for new players, defence when we can etc). If you dont participate in the galaxy, then we will exile you." When a new player posts on the forum - cash donation. When they join IRC - (larger) cash donation. If they dont reply to the mail, dont post on the forum, dont try on IRC and/or they are just being a tool, then we exile them. The time varies a little, sometimes its 24 hours, other times its 36 (i like 36, as its a day and a half and thus if you are out of whack with their timezone then they should have popped by), though 48 hours is common.

I've been thinking - what if players are exiled just like they are now, but have upper and lower limits of some description in them. for example, if "score" can be considered a reasonable judge of activity, you wont receive exiles that are more or less than 40% either way of the galaxy's average score. Mind you, using average score just encourages people to exile those of below average score - so perhaps there is a better way. Thoughts? A general exception is the brand new planet - planets still in protection are exempt from the rule, and can land in all galaxies. This way, galaxies shouldnt recieve players that are significantly better nor worse than they are, which is perhaps what people are looking for in an exiling system, whilst still giving new players the opportunity of landing with knowledgeable people and thus being able to grow learn and enjoy the game.

As for the hyperactive exiling guy, lets just hope that people like him miss out on the good players just because they are too quick to fire the gun

.

isildurx · 24 Apr 2006, 08:05

Im a GC atm. If people come to irc and attack pretty regularly they can stay.

I put some time into this game and i dont want to have unpaid people in my gal who logs in 3 times a week.

I have been relatively lucky with my exiles though, so i havent had many problems yet.

Thefoundation · 24 Apr 2006, 08:25

Pa community is killing its self, a few rounds back people botherd to explain how irc and the game works. Now you got gals like 9;7 who excile Irc active's because they have a unpaid account.
And those people will cry at the end of the round, that the PA community is in decline. We are the ones that can make a change, though 90% of us, rather moves up on the gal top 50 then to learn a newbee about the game.

Phil^ · 24 Apr 2006, 08:30

It may end up being something that cannot be solved by pateam through technical means - but instead by the community, changing the way it reacts and behaves towards new players.

Ultimate Newbie · 24 Apr 2006, 09:40

Hmm - i'm not sure that bodes well for this community tbh. Efforts to help new players join this game have typically been unsuccessful, and a clear recognition of the problem is so old without any change whatsoever in the playing community is mildly alarming.

I am unsure as to how to improve the attitude of the pa community towards new players.

XelNaga · 24 Apr 2006, 10:12

As I said in the other thread, if a new player is willing and motivated, there is absolutely no reason to exile him. Rather teach him and introduce to the game. But most people don't seem to be willing to invest that effort into new players.

robban1 · 24 Apr 2006, 10:25

well why dont these "new ppl" respond to mails, say hi in forums or join irc?

those ppl are useless as the whole idea of pa is teamplay and they play solo

i got no problems to help and answer questions about stuff but i need to get the questions to be able to help

kinda depressing really :/

Ace · 24 Apr 2006, 10:25

I agree that exiling ppl very quick is not the way to go if we want new ppl to play this game, learn it and enjoy it.
As most of the ppl I been in gal with know I try to invest a lot of time in getting them active on irc and understand the game.
And if all attempts fail THEN and only then I think it's justified to exile someone, and you can't find that out in 5 hours.

Tietäjä · 24 Apr 2006, 13:08

It's 24 hours until you can even initiate an exile vote. By then, if the newcomer has failed to respond to mails, or pop by at irc, and is not in vacation mode, uhm?

Thex · 24 Apr 2006, 13:17

My galaxy appears to be quite zealous when it comes to exiling. Some of the planets we've exiled have been in the semi active category and I've felt they should have been given more of a chance.

I'd like to see some changes to how new players are introduced to the game, maybe a start up area, integrated to the main gain, but with some restrictions compared to us experienced players. For example I'd like to see some tick box when you sign up to the game "Are you new to this game". Then maybe planets #15 - #20 be filled by only those new players, the exile rules on these planets are more restrictive for example they can only be exiled after being in the galaxy for 168 hours.
Yes everyone would know they were noobs, but if they were active I think a lot of the #1 - #13 players would help them with IRC, finding an ally, assisting with def/att etc and it won't prove much of a hinderance.

I haven't fully thought this through so it may be exploitable - just go with the spirit of the idea.

XelNaga · 24 Apr 2006, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thex

My galaxy appears to be quite zealous when it comes to exiling. Some of the planets we've exiled have been in the semi active category and I've felt they should have been given more of a chance.

I'd like to see some changes to how new players are introduced to the game, maybe a start up area, integrated to the main gain, but with some restrictions compared to us experienced players. For example I'd like to see some tick box when you sign up to the game "Are you new to this game". Then maybe planets #15 - #20 be filled by only those new players, the exile rules on these planets are more restrictive for example they can only be exiled after being in the galaxy for 168 hours.
Yes everyone would know they were noobs, but if they were active I think a lot of the #1 - #13 players would help them with IRC, finding an ally, assisting with def/att etc and it won't prove much of a hinderance.

I haven't fully thought this through so it may be exploitable - just go with the spirit of the idea.

Nice idea, but could be abused

Travler · 24 Apr 2006, 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by robban1

well why dont these "new ppl" respond to mails, say hi in forums or join irc?

those ppl are useless as the whole idea of pa is teamplay and they play solo

i got no problems to help and answer questions about stuff but i need to get the questions to be able to help

kinda depressing really :/

I tend to agree with this viewpoint. Back in r13 I was a free account in the beggining of the round. I was PA mailed and told to come to IRC to avoid being exiled. It looked like a good galaxy so I found a way to get on IRC and got alot of help. One of my gal mates was former co-worker known on irc as Panic. He upgraded my planet and helped me out alot. It was the best round I had played since r2 when there were no paid planets.

If people are active, respond, and want to play then any of the gals I have played in will not exile. No response, no activity = exile.

Why leave an unresponsive, inactive planet in the galaxy when there may be another player paid or not that is wanting to have some fun.

Thex · 24 Apr 2006, 15:25

Expanding my idea a little further - Planets in the "new player" slots do not add to galaxy score.

How could it be abused - apart from spying, is there something else? You may get spies, but we have that now anyway. You could possibly limit their view of the game - like free accounts - to prevent some of that info being displayed.

Really the only benefit the noobs get is that they cannot be kicked as fast - they don't take anything away from the galaxy at the moment (atm active galaxies like free slots as it means that self exiles can get into those slots increasing the strength of said galaxy). The noobs are also part of the full game and get to experience proper galaxy life in a kind of limited protection area.

Alessio · 24 Apr 2006, 16:01

It kinda depends on how good the gal is, if IRC activity in general is crap I exile more
But if the bp plays decently then I dont have any problems with free nubs
as long as they make a nice forum post
It's not like you actually 'need' those extra planets anyway

Maybe crappy gals should be allowed to exile more, and good gals less

Shyne · 24 Apr 2006, 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil^

It may end up being something that cannot be solved by pateam through technical means - but instead by the community, changing the way it reacts and behaves towards new players.

One solution is to remove exiles, and only allow self exile - at a reduced rate of cost increase, perhaps? (Discuss)

Willzzz · 24 Apr 2006, 17:13

To be honest this thread is sad to read, but it is unfortunatly these days very true. Its the same with alliances as well as gals. You see a noob come to an alliance channel on irc and they get ripped apart by people, being called noobs and told to leave there channels. Why not recruit and train them? I think people in this game forget how they first were when they first joined. Thats how bad the community has gone i am afraid. All people look out for is themselves, i understand your here to win, but at what costs? Would you preffer to win with only 2k players? Or would you preffer to bring more players in to double that then win and feel proud you actually made a difference.

People are quick to point the finger at the PA Team when they stuff up for example, claiming they are 'killing the game' but its things like this which are being done by the community and players themselves that are also killing the game.

Stifler · 24 Apr 2006, 19:32

All I ask from my randoms is irc activity, and that they attack regularly and help with gal defence where possible.

But IRC activity is most important since with it, is it much easier to help them to become better players. As long as they are IRC active I am willing to put in the time to help them learn the game, but they have to put something in to get something out.

jerome · 24 Apr 2006, 19:34

what's equally fantastic is when "experienced" players exile from gals and instead of seeing a possibility of making their new gal stronger by staying and working they move straight away!

repeat this multiple times and you see a very top heavy situation, if you get what i mean

Cannon_Fodder · 24 Apr 2006, 19:48

It makes me laugh how often these people being targetted in this thread, are usually not much better in skill or activity than those they exile.

Every round I post an IRC thread detailing how to get on it, step by step, along with a big message on the motd to head to the gal forum. If they don't show any sign within a few days, jonny rounds up the exile crew.

JonnyBGood · 24 Apr 2006, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by sniborp

It makes me laugh how often these people being targetted in this thread, are usually not much better in skill or activity than those they exile.

Every round I post an IRC thread detailing how to get on it, step by step, along with a big message on the motd to head to the gal forum. If they don't show any sign within a few days, jonny rounds up the exile crew.

In our gal we exile people with a greater score than the gc

Stifler · 24 Apr 2006, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by sniborp

Every round I post an IRC thread detailing how to get on it, step by step, along with a big message on the motd to head to the gal forum. If they don't show any sign within a few days, jonny rounds up the exile crew.

Yes we have threads offering all types of help on our gal forums including how to get on IRC

and on the overview we have:

Check galaxy forums!

JonnyBGood · 24 Apr 2006, 20:17

I also mail most of the new planets we get personally. I'm unsure if anyone else ingal does but I know that either heartless or rr, i forget who as i deleted all my mails this morning accidentally, sent out a huge mail to everyone ingal explaining a whole load of things.

Cannon_Fodder · 24 Apr 2006, 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

In our gal we exile people with a greater score than the gc

Your GC must suck then

Cannon_Fodder · 24 Apr 2006, 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

I also mail most of the new planets we get personally. I'm unsure if anyone else ingal does but I know that either heartless or rr, i forget who as i deleted all my mails this morning accidentally, sent out a huge mail to everyone ingal explaining a whole load of things.

I didn't get that.

Stifler · 24 Apr 2006, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

I also mail most of the new planets we get personally. I'm unsure if anyone else ingal does but I know that either heartless or rr, i forget who as i deleted all my mails this morning accidentally, sent out a huge mail to everyone ingal explaining a whole load of things.

yea, so that as well so they dont have an excuse for not at least mailing since they have to reply to my questions

DunkelGraf · 24 Apr 2006, 22:35

most ppl that exile "newbies" or "inactives" are those that want a strong and active gal to have good protection for themselves and have an easy ride with enough sleep and free time to do something else instead of taking care of their planet all the time.

We just need more beer

Prost!

gzambo · 25 Apr 2006, 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willzzz

To be honest this thread is sad to read, but it is unfortunatly these days very true. Its the same with alliances as well as gals. You see a noob come to an alliance channel on irc and they get ripped apart by people, being called noobs and told to leave there channels. Why not recruit and train them? I think people in this game forget how they first were when they first joined. Thats how bad the community has gone i am afraid. All people look out for is themselves, i understand your here to win, but at what costs? Would you preffer to win with only 2k players? Or would you preffer to bring more players in to double that then win and feel proud you actually made a difference.

People are quick to point the finger at the PA Team when they stuff up for example, claiming they are 'killing the game' but its things like this which are being done by the community and players themselves that are also killing the game.

you have learned well my young padewan

fact of the matteris there are alliances that will help train ppl but our so called elite players dont feel the need to spend 5 mins pointing them in the right direction,
untill people wake up and realise that by exiling and ignoring new players this game will end up with less than 500 players very soon

Veedeejem! · 25 Apr 2006, 10:26

If somebody doesn't write back mails, doesn't post on the gal forum and doesn't get on irc, i don't see any reason to keep them in my gal tbh.
If they do respond however, i'll take the time to explain things, help them get on irc, learn them how to set their perform so they just have to click connect and join gal channel, will even put in a good word for them in various alliances if they haven't got one allready. That's all i can do tbh.
I'm gc, not babysitter

General1 · 25 Apr 2006, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thefoundation

Pa community is killing its self, a few rounds back people botherd to explain how irc and the game works. Now you got gals like 9;7 who excile Irc active's because they have a unpaid account.
And those people will cry at the end of the round, that the PA community is in decline. We are the ones that can make a change, though 90% of us, rather moves up on the gal top 50 then to learn a newbee about the game.

As a current member of 9:7 I feel like speaking here.

Until this tick we have exciled 14 people.
Of those 14 people NO ONE SHOWED UP ON IRC.

What do you expect then.
1 planet who was paid we gave the benefit of the doubt.

His reason: My dad won't allow me to use IRC, although I was against it my gal m8es feel like letting him stay.
Which we did. He had NO ALLIANCE
2 nights later we received Incoming from 'an' alliance, the next night he is defending the alliance which attacked us the night before.

Sender Subject Time Actions
(xx:x:xx) hello Tue, 25 Apr 08:09
Yes, but i have a wife and two kids!!!!!!!
------------------------------------
Hello,

Are you able to acces irc at home?
------------------------------------
Dont have it at work sorry but am ol in forum all day
------------------------------------
irc?

Now tell me why we shoudn't kick him? He is paid and I got the idea he is another SPY.

So from the 14 people we have exciled, we had 1 paid account. The other 13 didn't reply to the mails we sended.

If people come to irc and are even slightly active there I'm willing to help them, which I have been doing for rounds now.
If people don't even take the effort of coming on irc: KICK within 24hours.

Let the flaming begin

Thefoundation · 25 Apr 2006, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by General1

As a current member of 9:7 I feel like speaking here.

Until this tick we have exciled 14 people.
Of those 14 people NO ONE SHOWED UP ON IRC.

What do you expect then.
1 planet who was paid we gave the benefit of the doubt.

His reason: My dad won't allow me to use IRC, although I was against it my gal m8es feel like letting him stay.
Which we did. He had NO ALLIANCE
2 nights later we received Incoming from 'an' alliance, the next night he is defending the alliance which attacked us the night before.

Sender Subject Time Actions
(xx:x:xx) hello Tue, 25 Apr 08:09
Yes, but i have a wife and two kids!!!!!!!
------------------------------------
Hello,

Are you able to acces irc at home?
------------------------------------
Dont have it at work sorry but am ol in forum all day
------------------------------------
irc?

Now tell me why we shoudn't kick him? He is paid and I got the idea he is another SPY.

So from the 14 people we have exciled, we had 1 paid account. The other 13 didn't reply to the mails we sended.

If people come to irc and are even slightly active there I'm willing to help them, which I have been doing for rounds now.
If people don't even take the effort of coming on irc: KICK within 24hours.

Let the flaming begin

strange then how come i get persons in my gal who have avg scores and where within 3 hours online on irc, who are exciled from 9;7 for not having a paid account?

"ow no they have found our true identendy as elitists" lets claim where fair. and hey this aint recent, this is from quite some ticks ago.

But as a just retired n00b to this game who did get help from the enjoyable and friendly PA community, i feel its my job to stop elitism and the decline of the Pa community. (this retired noob just got to level "neither noob nor master") got a paid account, and im happy floating between top 250-350.

now show us all the proof u want.... you'll be missing the point

Furyous · 25 Apr 2006, 20:26

You can't exile for 24 ticks (I'm sure someone has pointed that out, but I'm not reading all that ^).

But, if they are new to the game, unpaid, and relatively inactive (as a new person would be 99% of the time) I will exile them. A very active new planet will be given a chance. I will, however, explain politely that I am exiling because this is not the place for them.

Jonas · 25 Apr 2006, 20:48

You do have to wait 24 hours to exile...

atm im exiling players who state they will not pay for the game. I want a good galaxy and sadly, this is the only way to get it.

Wishmaster · 25 Apr 2006, 22:57

I exile all not willing to be on irc.

I have however upgraded 3 people in my gal. new players, which are active and great assets to my galaxy. I do what I can to help these into alliances and with def and general understanding of the game.

There is no point keeping people not doing anything though, and I have np with exiling them. They will never be any asset to the community if they dont join irc / post on gal forum.

Thex · 26 Apr 2006, 09:28

Part of the problem with the current system is that galaxies with established BP's want strong exiles (not new players) and randoms want to self exile until they find a strong galaxy.

Many of the sentiments about helping new players do not ring true - currently there are three galaxies in the T50 with galaxy names that advertise wanting exiles.

I've no doubt that these galaxies do not want new players whatever level of activity they have. These galaxies want establsihed players that started when the round starts, have a reasonable score and have an ally. They want players that are hacked off with their present galaxy and exile. Anyone that does fit this criteria and these galaxies (and no doubt many others - without such a blatant galaxy name) will exile and make some lame excuse about IRC/logon times/not a paid planet/no ally/etc*

*delete as appropriate to the situation so you can maintain your integrity

Veedeejem! · 26 Apr 2006, 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thex

lame excuse about IRC/logon times/not a paid planet/no ally/etc*

*delete as appropriate to the situation so you can maintain your integrity

If somebody really isn't on irc, never logs on, doesn't have paid planet , no ally, etc etc, I don't see any reason to keep them in my gal. And that's not a lame excuse its the truth. No need to carry around dead weight.
If they're on irc and reports incs however, i don't see any reason to exile them, even if they have a free account.

Maybe it's time for planetarion to return to private gals again.

Furyous · 26 Apr 2006, 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veedeejem!

If somebody really isn't on irc, never logs on, doesn't have paid planet , no ally, etc etc, I don't see any reason to keep them in my gal. And that's not a lame excuse its the truth. No need to carry around dead weight.
If they're on irc and reports incs however, i don't see any reason to exile them, even if they have a free account.

Maybe it's time for planetarion to return to private gals again.

Private galaxies. Yes Please. Leave random gals with a larger number of planets and let the provate gals turn on/off entry to new sign-ups and exiles.

Then the hardcore can play with the hardcore, new players with new players.

Why should a galaxy with 8 hardcore players have their chances of getting to #1 spoiled by having to take in inactive players?

NibNub · 26 Apr 2006, 15:05

(Just returned to the game after couple of years off - havent even downloaded Mirc yet - shoot me) Well. A week ago I had to go away for a few days and on my return found i had been exiled from my galaxy - ok, inactive fair enough. However, i also found that i had been exiled and then attacked by my 2nd galaxy which is a little annoying as i dont think i was in there for more than 48 hours. Fortunately i've now landed on my feet in my new (3rd) galaxy and hope to visit these unwelcoming little barsts asap.

Paisley · 26 Apr 2006, 15:20

my criteria for chop chop....Has been since R14

excess 3 fleeting
No ingal deffing (usually a member of an annoying ally)
inactive on PA and IRC
Ingal spying (free jpg)

you got to earn your keep in my gal... sadly

JonnyBGood · 26 Apr 2006, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furyous

Private galaxies. Yes Please. Leave random gals with a larger number of planets and let the provate gals turn on/off entry to new sign-ups and exiles.

Then the hardcore can play with the hardcore, new players with new players.

Why should a galaxy with 8 hardcore players have their chances of getting to #1 spoiled by having to take in inactive players?

I think you're onto something. Frankly I'm surprised solutions like this aren't proposed more often in real life. I mean would you have an objection to all the rich people living with other rich people and the poor with the poor? Or perhaps on the bus the whites and the blacks could ride separately!

I hope you die.

Benneh · 26 Apr 2006, 18:19

Well tbh a gal of 8 hardcore players, should have a chance of getting a top gal whatever there randoms are like reallly?

bleh

you suck i hate you and love you at the same time for amusing me.

*rubs JBG's charms*

furball · 26 Apr 2006, 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furyous//1up alexis

Why should a galaxy with 8 hardcore players have their chances of getting to #1 spoiled by having to take in inactive players?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

I hope you die.

I agree with JBG.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is the perfect example for those of you wondering who actually exiles all these new players without a second thought.

jerome · 26 Apr 2006, 21:16

noone should die really. unless they've experienced everything life has to offer, so i disagree with jbg there!

& nothing in alexis' post there suggests he exiles all without a thought. just because he plays 'hardcore' doesn't automatically mean he's unwilling to wait for some sort of contact - and to be honest, as aforementioned, the 24hrs before exiling must surely be enough to do so, heh.

Paisley · 27 Apr 2006, 00:34

I do think it should be compulsary for a "hardcore" player to take on an apprentice in his or hers galaxy tho.

Anonymous Hero · 27 Apr 2006, 03:08

Managed to get exiled half way through protection. Joined the galaxy IRC channel the moment I started, was mostly just a few idlers in there. Nobody in the galaxy bothered to send an ingame message, or even considered the fact I was under protection and had some roids initiated.

Although the new galaxy I'm in has a slighter lower score, the MoC sent a message as soon as I joined and the IRC channel actually has some active players.

Just remember that all of Planetarions players may affect the decision of a player on if they should buy credits for the round. If a new player who actually has some interest in the game is exiled out, then the chances of them paying decreases quite badly if they're exiled to a worse galaxy with no hope.

DunkelGraf · 27 Apr 2006, 05:59

Oh, all those poor people that only get "inactives"....
Too bad you do not get more people that use irc to report incomming so you can have your sleep. What else are those gal-channels for? Mostly its the public gal-channel created by the bp-people using fake nicks and relay channels where the non-bp-planets can join.
I will never report any incomming for somebody that hides his real identity!
And chatting with those whoever they are...... no thank you.

Furyous · 27 Apr 2006, 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

I think you're onto something. Frankly I'm surprised solutions like this aren't proposed more often in real life. I mean would you have an objection to all the rich people living with other rich people and the poor with the poor? Or perhaps on the bus the whites and the blacks could ride separately!

I hope you die.

Well that's a most kind sentiment. Your statement doesn't bear true comparison, as you are talking about enforced situations. Rich people can choose to live around other rich people if they want (and often they do), but they are not forced to! You could choose to have a private gal, or choose a random one. You are not forced either way.

Regardless of the hardcore element, I loved private galaxies because you could create a galaxy of people you know/have played with before/are of a like mind. Meeting other players was then a function of alliances (and even clusters!!).

All the secrecy and backstabbing bullshit you get from having pure random and BP+random galaxies is a right ballache (even if you get to the top). New and random players arent forced upon alliances for a minimum of 24 ticks. What is so different about the idea of entirely selective galaxies?

And no, I don't immediately exile any planet that is even slightly below par. I normally give 48+ hours, and all I require is activity and a strong desire to learn and help out other galaxy members.

If you think that's worthy of a death sentence, then you're entitled to your opinion.

Cannon_Fodder · 27 Apr 2006, 19:23

Alliances don't have eta5 defense though.

Furyous · 27 Apr 2006, 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by sniborp

Alliances don't have eta5 defense though.

In compensation, they have a much larger member base from which to source defence.

It's like telling a football club manager that he can choose 5 players, but the other 6 members of his squad have to come from a random draw, and if he doesnt want them, he has to reject them one by one, but only after he has played them in one or two games. Then their replacement could be anyone.

Anyway, I understand the arguments, but was always in favor of the idea of having a private galaxy round interspersed with random and semi random galaxy rounds. Would make the dynamics of the game more interesting and varied between rounds.