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1 Jun 2003, 23:10
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#1
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Banned
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 554
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This is a thread about grammar
Which is more grammatically correct?
"we haven't gotten a chance to prove our worth yet."
Or
"we haven't got a chance to prove our worth yet."
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1 Jun 2003, 23:13
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#2
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a new low in getting high
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,810
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The first, although got or gotten should be replaced with "been given".
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And you need a place to hide,
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We’re hitting a new low.
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1 Jun 2003, 23:13
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#3
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Bitch
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3,848
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Re: This is a thread about grammar
Quote:
Originally posted by Dookie Velvet
"we haven't got a chance to prove out worth yet."
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I guess option 1 would be the winner by default then
__________________
ACHTUNG!!!
Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy
schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und corkenpoppen mit
spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das
rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets. Relaxen und vatch
das blinkenlights!!!
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1 Jun 2003, 23:14
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#4
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Banned
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 554
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The argument I'm faced with is that gotten doesn't officially count as a word.
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1 Jun 2003, 23:14
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 940
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Re: Re: This is a thread about grammar
Quote:
Originally posted by Gayle29uk
I guess option 1 would be the winner by default then
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I posted correcting that as well, but he did redeem himself... so i deleted it so no one would notice, you're just mean!
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1 Jun 2003, 23:15
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#6
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Has Soup On His Head
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,095
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"We havent been given a chance to prove our worth yet
__________________
And the Banker, inspired with a courage so new
It was matter for general remark,
Rushed madly ahead and was lost to their view
In his zeal to discover the Snark
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1 Jun 2003, 23:17
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#7
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Banned
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 554
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dookie Velvet
Which is more grammatically correct?
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1 Jun 2003, 23:23
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#8
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Both are wrong. It should be:
"we haven't had a chance to prove our worth yet"
By the way, if "gotten" isn't a word, what are "ill-gotten gains"?
__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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1 Jun 2003, 23:26
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#9
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Throwing Shapes
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 797
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
By the way, if "gotten" isn't a word, what are "ill-gotten gains"?
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Slang.
Btw wouldn't "We have yet to be given a chance to prove our worth" be better grammar?
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1 Jun 2003, 23:29
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#10
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Quote:
Originally posted by CjC
Slang.
Btw wouldn't "We have yet to be given a chance to prove our worth" be better grammar?
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http://www.dictionary.com says "gotten" is a past participle of "got".
"I had the chance to do something" and "I was given the chance to do something" mean slightly different things.
And the placement of "yet" is stylistic, not grammatical.
__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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2 Jun 2003, 05:54
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: South Pacific
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American English though isn't it?
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I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together..........
ok 3..... 2..... 1.. let's jam
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2 Jun 2003, 08:34
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#12
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Love's Sweet Exile
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Living on a Stair (Now Sword-less)
Posts: 2,371
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Sing, a song about myself....
Oh, and if its in any way formal don't use "gotten"
__________________
--SYMM--
Ba Ba Ti Ki Di Do
Last edited by SYMM; 2 Jun 2003 at 08:43.
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2 Jun 2003, 11:04
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#13
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I'm great!
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Leeds
Posts: 388
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forgotten :O
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If it hadn't been for Cotton-Eye Joe, I'da been married a long time ago. Where did you come from? Where did you go? Where did you come from, Cotton-Eye Joe?!
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2 Jun 2003, 11:12
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#14
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Quote:
Originally posted by SYMM
Sing, a song about myself....
Oh, and if its in any way formal don't use "gotten"
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I didn't say it was formal, or good English. I merely said that it was a word, which it is.
__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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2 Jun 2003, 11:25
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#15
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Love's Sweet Exile
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Living on a Stair (Now Sword-less)
Posts: 2,371
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I wasn't talking to you proteus.
shh
__________________
--SYMM--
Ba Ba Ti Ki Di Do
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2 Jun 2003, 12:22
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#16
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:cool:
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Here, there and everywhere
Posts: 791
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
http://www.dictionary.com says "gotten" is a past participle of "got".
"I had the chance to do something" and "I was given the chance to do something" mean slightly different things.
And the placement of "yet" is stylistic, not grammatical.
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How can you have a past participle of a past participle? seeing as 'got' is the past participle of 'get'.
'Gotten' isn't in the english dictionary.
__________________
Danger gleams like sunshine to a brave man's eyes.
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2 Jun 2003, 12:25
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#17
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Quote:
Originally posted by Obliterate
How can you have a past participle of a past participle? seeing as 'got' is the past participle of 'get'.
'Gotten' isn't in the english dictionary.
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You can have alternate past participles.
Quote:
From the OED
GOTTEN
1. Obtained, acquired, won (chiefly with accompanying adverb). Now rare, exc. in ILL-GOTTEN.
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Your dictionary is clearly poor.
__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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2 Jun 2003, 13:05
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#18
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Anon.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: not in Milton Keynes
Posts: 491
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got/gotten change to had.
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2 Jun 2003, 13:19
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#19
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Quote:
Originally posted by Freakozoid
got/gotten change to had.
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Like I said.
__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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2 Jun 2003, 15:32
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
Both are wrong. It should be:
"we haven't had a chance to prove our worth yet"
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This is correct.
Also, 'gotten' might technically be a word, but the connotations of a word define at least half of its meaning, and I suspect that a lot of people will associate the use of "gotten" in most contexts with poor English.
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2 Jun 2003, 15:36
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#21
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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I was replying to this:
Quote:
Originally posted by Dookie Velvet
The argument I'm faced with is that gotten doesn't officially count as a word.
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Everyone just assumed I was condoning its use in proper English.
__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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2 Jun 2003, 15:39
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
I was replying to this:
Everyone just assumed I was condoning its use in proper English.
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You should have taken the "what does it mean for a word to be 'official'?" angle instead :/
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2 Jun 2003, 18:39
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#23
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Insanity Prawn Boy!
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In a bush where you can't find me
Posts: 2,474
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Quote:
Originally posted by Obliterate
'Gotten' isn't in the english dictionary.
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it's not in the Oxford English Dictionary (which, quite frankly, is the only one that counts) but at a rough guess i'd say that 'gotten' is a colloquial term and therefore should only be used in informal writing or speaking, and then only rarely.
__________________
They shall not grow old, as we who are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We shall remember them.
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2 Jun 2003, 19:08
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#24
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Quote:
Originally posted by Demon Dave
it's not in the Oxford English Dictionary (which, quite frankly, is the only one that counts)
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Someone hasn't been paying attention...
__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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2 Jun 2003, 20:18
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#25
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by Demon Dave
it's not in the Oxford English Dictionary
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Quote:
Proteus++
Quote:
From the OED
GOTTEN
1. Obtained, acquired, won (chiefly with accompanying adverb). Now rare, exc. in ILL-GOTTEN.
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2 Jun 2003, 20:21
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#26
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:cool:
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Here, there and everywhere
Posts: 791
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
You can have alternate past participles.
Your dictionary is clearly poor.
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hmm, i stand corrected.
*throws dictionary in bin*
__________________
Danger gleams like sunshine to a brave man's eyes.
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3 Jun 2003, 11:23
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#27
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Insanity Prawn Boy!
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In a bush where you can't find me
Posts: 2,474
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
Someone hasn't been paying attention...
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well it's not in my version
__________________
They shall not grow old, as we who are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We shall remember them.
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3 Jun 2003, 11:53
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#28
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by Demon Dave
well it's not in my version
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You obviously don't have access to the online complete OED.
Someone's got an abridged edition*!
*Which is to be expected, the full one takes about 10 trucks to carry around.
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3 Jun 2003, 12:29
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#29
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Insanity Prawn Boy!
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In a bush where you can't find me
Posts: 2,474
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i'm not surprised. and you're right, my version is the pocket Dictionary/Thesaurus combo. IT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE ANTI-DISTABLISMENTARISM (or however it's spelt) IN IT!!!!!! what is the world coming to?
__________________
They shall not grow old, as we who are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We shall remember them.
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3 Jun 2003, 12:44
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#30
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Quote:
Originally posted by Demon Dave
i'm not surprised. and you're right, my version is the pocket Dictionary/Thesaurus combo. IT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE ANTI-DISTABLISMENTARISM (or however it's spelt) IN IT!!!!!! what is the world coming to?
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That would be "antidisestablishmentarianism".
__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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3 Jun 2003, 12:46
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Posts: 4,911
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
That would be "antidisestablishmentarianism".
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it does have a hyphen in it, which is why it isn't in the dictionary I believe
__________________
I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together..........
ok 3..... 2..... 1.. let's jam
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3 Jun 2003, 12:48
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#32
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Quote:
Originally posted by Radical Edward
it does have a hyphen in it, which is why it isn't in the dictionary I believe
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Quote:
From the OED
antidisestablishmentarianism
Properly, opposition to the disestablishment of the Church of England (rare): but popularly cited as an example of a long word.
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__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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3 Jun 2003, 12:51
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#33
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
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This is why I love JANet.
That and single figure pings and basically unlimited downloading bandwidth.
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3 Jun 2003, 12:53
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 4,911
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
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sorry, I didn't notice it was you saying that or I would have believed you. I thought it had a hypehn in it though
__________________
I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together..........
ok 3..... 2..... 1.. let's jam
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3 Jun 2003, 12:53
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 4,911
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
This is why I love JANet.
That and single figure pings and basically unlimited downloading bandwidth.
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not at IC, well unless you are in the uni. the halls access is terrible. like 56k++
__________________
I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together..........
ok 3..... 2..... 1.. let's jam
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3 Jun 2003, 12:54
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#36
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Quote:
Originally posted by Radical Edward
sorry, I didn't notice it was you saying that or I would have believed you. I thought it had a hypehn in it though
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Wow. I'm considered trustworthy!
This deserves a dancing banana.
__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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3 Jun 2003, 12:55
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 4,911
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
Wow. I'm considered trustworthy!
This deserves a dancing banana.
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well you have access to the OED. there is literally no point argueing about wirds with you. we might as well argue about what is on my desk.
__________________
I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together..........
ok 3..... 2..... 1.. let's jam
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3 Jun 2003, 12:58
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#38
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Quote:
Originally posted by Radical Edward
we might as well argue about what is on my desk.
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Could we? That might be fun!
__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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3 Jun 2003, 12:59
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 4,911
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
Could we? That might be fun!
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well have a guess. though it could take me some time to find out if you are right or not.
__________________
I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together..........
ok 3..... 2..... 1.. let's jam
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3 Jun 2003, 12:59
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#40
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
Could we? That might be fun!
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I have 2 gamecube controllers, a Dangermouse, several crisp packets, a couple of ethernet cards, other computer stuff, a bottle of grolsch and the Penguin Dictionary of Curious and Interesting Numbers, among other things.
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3 Jun 2003, 13:02
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#41
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 4,911
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
Penguin Dictionary of Curious and Interesting Numbers
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enlighten us about a curious and interesting number.
__________________
I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together..........
ok 3..... 2..... 1.. let's jam
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3 Jun 2003, 13:03
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#42
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Well I'm guessing both of you have computers.
Possibly some scrap paper, maybe a pen or pencil as well.
I give up.
__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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3 Jun 2003, 13:04
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#43
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 4,911
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2 computers actually. 6 packets of green tea, one mug, lots of paper and research papers, 3 books on programming, 2 books on quantum mechanics, one book on optics, some other books, some ink, some toilet paper, a used tissue a calculator and a highlighter pen.
__________________
I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together..........
ok 3..... 2..... 1.. let's jam
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3 Jun 2003, 13:05
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#44
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by Radical Edward
enlighten us about a curious and interesting number.
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145
145 = 1! + 4! + 5!
The only other numbers that are the sum of the factorials of their digits are 1, 2 and 40585.
It is also the 4th number to be the sum of 2 squares in two different ways.
145 =12^2 + 1^2 = 8^2 + 9^2
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3 Jun 2003, 13:06
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 4,911
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I guess the dictionary is in numerical order then?
tell us another
__________________
I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together..........
ok 3..... 2..... 1.. let's jam
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3 Jun 2003, 13:27
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#46
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by Radical Edward
I guess the dictionary is in numerical order then?
tell us another
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Graham's Number. It's the biggest finite number with any point.
It's an upper bound in Ramsey theory, and it needs it's own notation to describe it.
Let 3^3 = 9, as it usually does.
Let 3^^3 = 3^(3^3)
3^^^3 = 3^^(3^^3) = 3^^7625597484987 = 3^7625597484987^7625597484987.
3^^^^3 = 3^^^(3^^^3), of course, and so on.
Now consider the number 3^^^.....^^^3, where the numbers of arrows is equal to 3^^^^3 (or 3^7625597484987^7625597484987).
Now have a number, 3^^^....^^^3, where the number of arrows is the value of the number you just obtained.
Repeat this for a further 61 iterations and you have Graham's Number.
They think the answer's about 6.
Last edited by MrL_JaKiri; 3 Jun 2003 at 15:45.
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3 Jun 2003, 13:29
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#47
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 4,911
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This is a thread about numbers
what's Ramsey theory then?
__________________
I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together..........
ok 3..... 2..... 1.. let's jam
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3 Jun 2003, 13:31
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#48
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: This is a thread about numbers
Quote:
Originally posted by Radical Edward
what's Ramsey theory then?
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Something from combinatorics.
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3 Jun 2003, 13:32
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#49
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 4,911
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Re: Re: This is a thread about numbers
what's combinatorics then?
__________________
I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together..........
ok 3..... 2..... 1.. let's jam
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3 Jun 2003, 13:38
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#50
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: Re: Re: This is a thread about numbers
Quote:
Originally posted by Radical Edward
what's combinatorics then?
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It's what Ramsey theory's a part of.
Anyway.
Numerology!
46.
Psalm 46 to be precise.
The 46th word is shake.
The 46th word from the end is spear.
The translation was completed in 1610, when Shakespeare was 46.
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