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Unread 22 May 2006, 13:36   #1
midge5
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UK/EU questionnaire

A friend of mine has to make a presentation next week on the UK and its role in Europe, within which they would like the opinions of some British people to talk about our opinion on the matter. As they aren't British and don't actually live here though they have found this a bit difficult and were hoping I could try and get some people to fill in a questionnaire. Any responses are appreciated.



Hello,


First of all, thank you for answering these questions. I will use your answers for my presentation that I will give on the 29th of May. The main theme of this presentation is the position of Great Britain in the European Union, therefore I’m asking your opinion about some aspects of the European Union. If you would like share something else about the EU, you are welcome to do so J and of course I apologise for my crappy English


1. Let's talk about the 15+10 enlargement wave the EU has been going through. Was that a good decision? Is that working well? And where will that lead Europe?

2. How do you feel about turkey joining the EU?

3. What should Great Britain be doing different when it comes to the EU?

Please respond to the following propositions:

1. The European constitution is dead. (And what do you think of the constitution?)

2. Great Britain has no right to really participate in the decision making process of the EU, and make so many demands, because it is not fully integrated in it. (For instance not participating in the Economic Monetary Union).

3. What's been achieved in Europe so far, which has helped to produce greater prosperity and greater stability than Europe has known before, shouldn’t be abandoned.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 13:49   #2
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Re: UK/EU questionnaire

Quote:
Originally Posted by midge5
1. Let's talk about the 15+10 enlargement wave the EU has been going through. Was that a good decision? Is that working well? And where will that lead Europe?
it seems fine to me, although over-enlargement may become an issue with the next wave

2. How do you feel about turkey joining the EU?
not too happy.
they would have to improve their human rights record, there are also geographic problems


3. What should Great Britain be doing different when it comes to the EU?
i'm actually happy with our current involvement. although we should be more pro-european than pro-american when it comes to foreign affairs. Oh and we should put more pressure on France.

Please respond to the following propositions:

1. The European constitution is dead. (And what do you think of the constitution?)
meh.
that's probably the best answer i can give. Answers to both questions


2. Great Britain has no right to really participate in the decision making process of the EU, and make so many demands, because it is not fully integrated in it. (For instance not participating in the Economic Monetary Union).
bollocks
sorry, I disagree


3. What's been achieved in Europe so far, which has helped to produce greater prosperity and greater stability than Europe has known before, shouldn’t be abandoned.
I agree
Sorry if the replies were rubbish...
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Unread 22 May 2006, 14:14   #3
Achilles
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Re: UK/EU questionnaire

Quote:
Originally Posted by midge5
1. Let's talk about the 15+10 enlargement wave the EU has been going through. Was that a good decision? Is that working well? And where will that lead Europe?
Yes. Aswell as providing sources of cheap labour for wealthier countries through immigration the Enlargment ensures greater lebensraum for all the peoples of Europe.

Quote:
2. How do you feel about turkey joining the EU?
Obviously there is the slight concern about them killing people for no good reason. However their strategic geographic position (close to the Caususus and all the oil in Muslimdom) more than makes up for that. Or at least it will when there is slightly less oil/gas than there is now.

Quote:
3. What should Great Britain be doing different when it comes to the EU?
Less nationalistic, more anti-American big business, more pro European big business.

Quote:
Please respond to the following propositions:

1. The European constitution is dead. (And what do you think of the constitution?)
It was flawed, but all such documents are. Too much compromise, not enough hardline. A decent war would put it back on the table in a more agreeable form.

Quote:
2. Great Britain has no right to really participate in the decision making process of the EU, and make so many demands, because it is not fully integrated in it. (For instance not participating in the Economic Monetary Union).
Britain is a net donator to the EU and thus it's place is secured in perpetuity by capitalist greed.

Quote:
3. What's been achieved in Europe so far, which has helped to produce greater prosperity and greater stability than Europe has known before, shouldn’t be abandoned.
It is the foundation of an Empire to rival that of the growing Chinese-Russian powerblock in the far east and will be a welcome change of direction for Imperialism after the Americans have had their turn driving.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 14:36   #4
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Re: UK/EU questionnaire

1. Let's talk about the 15+10 enlargement wave the EU has been going through. Was that a good decision? Is that working well? And where will that lead Europe?

I believe it was an excellent decision, if we go back to the end of World War II, the European Union today was what was invisiged by Federalists at the end of World War II (i.e. West and East Europe together as one. Europe is western europe with central and eastern europe. I think the EU did a great thing in moving on from the cold war and allowing a relatively quick accession.

I believe it is working well, there doesnt seem to be too many problems. The only problems I can envisage are the countries like Britain, France and Germany looking to the new members for political support within the EU so rather than become unique they are just tools to backup the big three withing Europe.

Ultimately it will lead Europe along a more prosperous path. Charles De Gaulle advocated a theory in the 60s called "Third Force" it was thrown around in the 40s and 50s. The idea was for Europe to emerge between the two sides of Capitalism and Communism ie USA and USSR. With this in mind Europe would be independent in its thinking, strong economically and would have a say internationally.

This third force can now develop into a second force potentially, with the collapse of the Soviet Union we see only the USA left as the last big power. Europe as a group can challenge this power it just needs to be more federal in my opinion and countries like Britain and France need to be willing to give up more sovreignty. However Europe as it is, certainly still is a poweful actor but until it acts as one its true power will be masked.

2. How do you feel about turkey joining the EU?

I am in two minds about Turkey joining the EU. On the one hand we can say Turkey isnt European, there is that argument, but I think I disagree. I would say Turkey is part of Europe. It might not being culturally European because they are gosh muslim, but historically Turkey can be considered Europe can it not?

My main opinion is that Turkey should join the EU. It will be good for the EU to have a muslim country in Europe, it will also be good for the EU because Turkey has so much potential as a country. We can help Turkey become better and then in years to come it will put more back into the economy of Europe. Spain is quite a good example and possibly Greece. Not only that but by taking in a big country like Turkey just makes us even more powerful as this "Second Force".

3. What should Great Britain be doing different when it comes to the EU?

We should be co-operating more. The impression I get of Britain and Europe is that we love Europe until the point we disagree with it. Britain needs to be willing to compromise and give in here and there. Sometimes I wonder is Britain whats holding Europe back. If only Britain had the Euro I think. But then I realise that its not Britain participating in something for example the Euro, its Britains attitude. We still think like we are the rulers of a great empire with our great ally the USA and all this bollacks. This isnt true and Britain needs to realise that if it wants real power it needs to cooperate more with the EU.

Please respond to the following propositions:

1. The European constitution is dead. (And what do you think of the constitution?)


Good. From what I can remember the document was quite weak but it would take months and months from discussion from every party to come up with a new document and even though it would be full of compromises etc. So I say we can do without it for the moment.

2. Great Britain has no right to really participate in the decision making process of the EU, and make so many demands, because it is not fully integrated in it. (For instance not participating in the Economic Monetary Union).

Completly disagree. We have as much right as any other country in the EU. We have the same status as France, Germany et al. We pay our money. We send representatives. Participating in the EMU was something chosen by our government, which they reserved the right too. iirc Denmark and a couple of countries did the same. If the EU said we must take up the EMU then it may be a different story however we were asked and we said no. In general Britain doesnt opt out of much and is often the front runner of ideas in Europe. An example is:

European Army (Rapid Reaction force?)
Widening not Deepending (Britain constantly pushing for more members to join the EU)

Britain while it can be a sore thumb in Europe probably gets more bad press than it should due to Thatcher and her Bruges speech, thus her setting the tone of Britain to Europe for decades to come.

3. What's been achieved in Europe so far, which has helped to produce greater prosperity and greater stability than Europe has known before, shouldn’t be abandoned.

Integration
Economic Co-operation (From the ECSC to the EMU)
Helping out countries in need like Greece and Spain when they first joined.
Free movement between borders (well on mainland Europe)
Socrates University program

Sorry for rambling, hope this throws some ideas into the mixer.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 14:42   #5
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Re: UK/EU questionnaire

Quote:
Originally Posted by midge5
1. Let's talk about the 15+10 enlargement wave the EU has been going through. Was that a good decision? Is that working well? And where will that lead Europe?
From a purely selfish perspective there are a lot more fit Eastern European girls in London now than there were ten years ago, and I presume the recent expansion can only have contributed to this in a positive sense. If I was a semi-skilled labourer then I would probably be quite worried about the possible effects this could have on wages (in say construction). However, in London at least, the construction industry is doing fairly well and is likely to overheat due to the Olympics anyway, so the immediate effects will be relatively small on that front.

What worries me is what happens if the economy hits a downturn. The general idea with immigration is that they'll leave when there's no work available, which seems slightly naive based on the evidence.

Another effect of expansion is probably job losses in manufacturing as production moves East (as shown in recent developments in the UK car industry). I'm not sure what the alternative is however. The net effects on Eastern Europe (in terms of demographics) could be disasterous, I'm not sure. Russia is due to lose something like 50 million people over the next century, I'm not sure about the rest of them.

Ultimately I feel that "Europe" as a cultural entity" strethes from parts of Russia to the Atlantic (and arguably the United States / Canada too) and so it makes sense in the longer term to have full integration.
Quote:
2. How do you feel about turkey joining the EU?
I don't know any fit Turkish women.

More generally it seems a pretty rubbish idea, although if it gets European elites access to oil/gas it'll be embraced. Trying to pretend Europe is a Islam-friendly place is a hilarious idea, although no worse than some other ideas raised. If we're going to have Turkey why not Morroco, or Tunisia or Algeria? What is the point of this project? World domination or European "unity"?

Quote:
3. What should Great Britain be doing different when it comes to the EU?
I've no idea. Whenever we use our influence it does generally seem to be aimed at making things worse (e.g. tougher line of immigrants, more military co-operation with the United States, etc). We should probably stop doing that.
Quote:
1. The European constitution is dead. (And what do you think of the constitution?)
Glad it's gone. It was a pro-corporate pro-statist piece of shit.
Quote:
2. Great Britain has no right to really participate in the decision making process of the EU, and make so many demands, because it is not fully integrated in it. (For instance not participating in the Economic Monetary Union).
Who cares about rights in this context? If the UK doesn't participate then the whole process is less meaningful. Therefore we will.
Quote:
3. What's been achieved in Europe so far, which has helped to produce greater prosperity and greater stability than Europe has known before, shouldn’t be abandoned.
Europe is doing OK in terms of stability, although we're on a seeming never-ending decline (psychologically if not economically). When you think that the EU has a got a bit of a hard-on for things like software patents then quite frankly I wouldn't mind the whole thing being abandoned.

I also don't really understand this "Let's be a counterweight to the United States". This could be true, if we weren't a bunch of cocksuckers, but we are and so we won't. Besides, we're finished as a political force, as far as I can see. And good riddance, quite frankly. For the continent which can make reasonable claims on "inventing" notions like liberty, democracy, etc we have spent our history being shits for really terrible reasons.

We should probably continue economic integration within Europe and look at boosting cultural ties. However, we seem to be intent at doing this at almost any cost, and therefore waste lots of time pissing people off about things like weights and measures where there could easily be compromise. I can't think of anything else that's good that the EU does.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 22:14   #6
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Re: UK/EU questionnaire

politics is the only aspect of life where the opinions of ignorant people are actively sought.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 22:41   #7
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Re: UK/EU questionnaire

Quote:
Originally Posted by midge5
A friend of mine has to make a presentation next week on the UK and its role in Europe, within which they would like the opinions of some British people to talk about our opinion on the matter. As they aren't British and don't actually live here though they have found this a bit difficult and were hoping I could try and get some people to fill in a questionnaire. Any responses are appreciated.



Hello,


First of all, thank you for answering these questions. I will use your answers for my presentation that I will give on the 29th of May. The main theme of this presentation is the position of Great Britain in the European Union, therefore I’m asking your opinion about some aspects of the European Union. If you would like share something else about the EU, you are welcome to do so J and of course I apologise for my crappy English


1. Let's talk about the 15+10 enlargement wave the EU has been going through. Was that a good decision? Is that working well? And where will that lead Europe?

It was a brilliant decision, with the possible exception of Cyprus : we should have ratified its borders and forced a settlement rather than accepting them in and giving any de facto legitimacy to the turkish partition of it.

Its not working as well as it could, because europe isnt integrating as fast as it could; and is biased in terms of subsides and developmental loans in favour of the larger countries. We arent doing enough for the Eastern 8 in particular.

Further european integration is inevitable when everyone finally faces up to the declining relevance of european states

2. How do you feel about turkey joining the EU?

A secular Turkey that meets up with the economic and humanitarian criteria would be a wonderful asset to an EU that wants to take a bigger role in world/oil politics, but the likelihood of this is dubious.

3. What should Great Britain be doing different when it comes to the EU?

Join the euro, stop clinging on to the commonwealth and the "special relationship" and take its place at the heart of europe.

Please respond to the following propositions:

1. The European constitution is dead. (And what do you think of the constitution?)

Yes, sadly, thanks to the nationalists. There was nothing even remotely controversial in it. Im dissapointed it didnt past but im so confident it was a benign paper that i dont fear the fact its dead harms europes integration any more than on a psychological level.

2. Great Britain has no right to really participate in the decision making process of the EU, and make so many demands, because it is not fully integrated in it. (For instance not participating in the Economic Monetary Union).

Apart from the EMU, how is it not fully integrated? I cant really agree with this statement, but i agree that britain is a hindrance

3. What's been achieved in Europe so far, which has helped to produce greater prosperity and greater stability than Europe has known before, shouldn’t be abandoned.

Not even controversial, yes.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 23:24   #8
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Re: UK/EU questionnaire

1. Let's talk about the 15+10 enlargement wave the EU has been going through. Was that a good decision? Is that working well? And where will that lead Europe?


It has had almost no impact on my daily life and id say thats the same for most brits, apart from making it easier to go on a weekend break to *insert country* im resolutely meh on the entire thing. Im unsure how to answer whether it was a 'good thing' or not since EU membership means a wide variety of things, id support the chance they been given to enrich themselves and support certain aspects of european law they had to ratify. But bunging all of europe into one amalgamous entity robs the world of a certain specialness.


2. How do you feel about turkey joining the EU?


OMG the turks are muslims, we don't want any muslims because, well, because they might form an unholy alliance with the catholics and take over the devine CoE. Turkey as a european country is a bit of a problem for most people, not because of its geographic location, though most would like to pretend so, but because its full of muslims, and they're backward/smelly/sheepshaggers who will either **** our virgionous daughters or drag our great nation down, or god forbid, both. A bit like the welsh on steriods.

Since the concept of 'europe' has never been defined throughout history i really fail to see why its location has any bearing on what it is. If you take its entire history (ie including the roman bits) its certainly played a more important role than finland or even ireland, and how the **** the french can be against it for geographical reasons but include french guyana and various other islands is beyond me. If given a choice between lichenstien (or however the **** its spelled) or turkey, id take turkey.

No you see the problem is the turks worship satan, the fact that they'd be a secular state with secular institutions is besides the point. They're dark satan worshiping weirdos who want our wimmin.

I wouldn't mind so much if the EU had said no to turkey from the outset, but we've strung them along for near on 50 years without giving a resolute 'non' (iirc morocco was told no straightaway). Unlike dante i really can't see the problem with the entire planet joining the EU, it doesn't ****ing matter, whether thats a good thing in maintaining identity is another matter, but if they want to join who the **** am i to say no?





3. What should Great Britain be doing different when it comes to the EU?


Most brits would say pay less/leave/sent all the immigrants and asylum seekers to you etc etc, but in 'real' terms i don't see what should be significantly changed




Please respond to the following propositions:

1. The European constitution is dead. (And what do you think of the constitution?)

Well for a start, i mean article II paragraph IV line XX1 was complete bollocks wasn't it? I was against it for the same reasons as dante.


2. Great Britain has no right to really participate in the decision making process of the EU, and make so many demands, because it is not fully integrated in it. (For instance not participating in the Economic Monetary Union).



We got the moneh, if we were a non entity like portugal or something then id agree with you, but in this world money talks, and we're only one of 4 nations with trillion dollar economies, we're more important than anyone who opposes out majesty we smite down those who form against us etc, if that sounds unfair and brutish you'll get how turkey feels.


3. What's been achieved in Europe so far, which has helped to produce greater prosperity and greater stability than Europe has known before, shouldn’t be abandoned.




and neither should the great european experiment be used to exclude those that are different or to coalate those within into something they never were




edit: my post formatting is annoyning me, id prefer it to be bolded questions and normal type replies, apologies if it hurts anyone elses eyes.
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Last edited by milo; 22 May 2006 at 23:30.
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Unread 23 May 2006, 02:24   #9
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Re: UK/EU questionnaire

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Originally Posted by Yahwe
politics is the only aspect of life where the opinions of ignorant people are actively sought.
thank god for that
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Unread 23 May 2006, 14:27   #10
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midge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: UK/EU questionnaire

Thanks for the help
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