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Unread 3 May 2009, 22:52   #51
[DW]Entropy
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

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Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
You obviously have absolutely no clue what happened last round. Stop pretending you know what you are talking about.
Sum it up for those of us who are in the dark?
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Unread 4 May 2009, 01:02   #52
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

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Originally Posted by LordNieminen View Post
Oh well, I didn't bother watching it after the first 4-5 weeks as it was over by then already. There was just 2 scenarios at week 3, week 4 it was over already.

If people could not understand that during the round, they should not be HC's.. and if they understood why didn't they do anything about it.

And I pretty well know wth happened as I saw some of the convo's in first 4-5 weeks before I had to goto my work full time. Play neutral between 2 blocks and u get wasted, it's that simple.. if u'r some ND dude trying to protect their reputation.
Dude, what the hell are you on about?
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Unread 4 May 2009, 05:16   #53
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

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Originally Posted by CBA View Post
Dude, what the hell are you on about?
Last rounds early/mid politics, when the allies locked themselfs down and how some stayed away from it resulting in clear cut scene how the round is going to end. That's how pa politics work. Anyways as your name says cba to explain, let's just say you know people and their grudges/motives, u know how their ally works.. that happened last round and they didn't try to avoid it so asc won deservedly, not to mention the bounce back ability of asc after they got hitted.

Back to the topic.. make a another FOS, with luck they might have enough good players hiding behind the flak to win asc, next fall.. never this summer.
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Unread 4 May 2009, 08:34   #54
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

the "level" of players isn't especially great but there's no need to be great. ascendancy's model allows them to be the best this current environment of pa needs to be when coupled with jbg + the 'core' who don 't give up, and some long lasting strategies eg top heavy galaxies etc. i don't think anyone genuinely thinks ascendancy now would beat the 24/7 committed ballache alliances of past, but ascendancy has never needed to be at that level of commitment. there's no need for that comparison.

of course, ascendancy is without doubt the best alliance since PAX (a different game to PA) just like fury were during PA. why? they won the most, without question. exi / 1up? yes, they were great at one point too but exi hadn't played enough, 1up lost too much.
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Unread 4 May 2009, 08:38   #55
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

by the way one thing people who make alliances to beat ascendancy and such don't appreciate when trying to simply 'attack' the hell out of ascendancy is that there's a culture in ascendancy that has been created over many, many rounds of existence (since r16 even, and properly through r19, 20 and 21) about not 'giving up', this mentality is key and you will notice that players get abused to hell and back from pretty much every other member for poor play and or a costly mistake, at the same time there's a far more of a circle wankery at times of brilliance (relative brilliance obviously) and this sort of reward/punishment culture helps focus players better than the more arbitrary and frankly completely soulless system of before. to beat ascendancy takes more than literally just attacking them ("us"), you have to appreciate ascendancy don't tend to give up and that they ("we") are very well led.

for the less able amongst you what i'm saying is, an alliance led by CBA or junglemuffin will never beat an ascendancy with jbg.
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Unread 4 May 2009, 09:46   #56
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

but for how long can JBG be bothered to babysit
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Unread 4 May 2009, 10:17   #57
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
but for how long can JBG be bothered to babysit
JBG has obviously just been quoted for example. While he did indeed do most of the backbone work for the past three rounds (at least, probably more, I don't remember) there's enough potential candidates to ensure that we won't just turn dead if JBG decides not to play. Granted, hardly anyone else is currently showing JBGs past committments, but that does not mean that Ascendancy is going to be beaten easily.
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Unread 4 May 2009, 14:23   #58
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

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Originally Posted by jerome View Post
for the less able amongst you what i'm saying is, an alliance led by CBA or junglemuffin will never beat an ascendancy with jbg.
Dont be ignorant jer. Opinions like that are what make Asc beatable imo.

Ok thanks for the feedback guys, much appreciated.
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Unread 4 May 2009, 14:43   #59
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

He just told you the God's honest truth and you call *him* ignorant. I weep for the future.
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Unread 4 May 2009, 15:33   #60
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

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He just told you the God's honest truth and you call *him* ignorant. I weep for the future.
How could you put me down so
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Unread 5 May 2009, 12:35   #61
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

Hi tesla!
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Unread 5 May 2009, 15:36   #62
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
but for how long can JBG be bothered to babysit
JBG is an awesome DC (beyond doubt, the best I've seen), one of the few competent people you can actually rely on to give you proper advice about stats and a skilled diplomat when it comes to PA, looking at all these you could think it's impossible to replace him. The reality is that it isn't impossible, just very hard.
Thankfully, there is always someone willing to DC for the Ascs in their gal (clustering really helps with that), there are plenty of good players in #ascendancy to discuss the stats with. About politics, golan/achi/mz and a few others are still around, any of them with enough knowledge of this community to make it work.

Having considered these, I would say that if JBG would go seriously inactive it would make it hard on Asc, but not a real turning point on the winning spree.

PS: Breps like this also help a lot.
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Unread 5 May 2009, 16:11   #63
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

I have to say I haven't actually given the stats more than a "oh hey cool, we now have 3-4 pods per race!" look in at least 4 rounds now.
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Unread 5 May 2009, 16:37   #64
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

Yeah, I know, I meant politics. Edited to make it clear now.
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Unread 5 May 2009, 20:00   #65
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

You suck up rico , reformation of eXcessum!
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Unread 11 May 2009, 10:21   #66
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

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Munin is open source though, anyone can use it.
And yet most of the people who do immediately gut the memberlevel access to everything...
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Unread 11 May 2009, 15:07   #67
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

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And yet most of the people who do immediately gut the memberlevel access to everything...
People on the internet are after your deepest and darkest spreadsheet related secrets. Soon they will know many irrelevant things about your alliance unless you institute severe reactionary clamp-downs on access. It's how the soviet union fell man.
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Unread 11 May 2009, 17:25   #68
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
People on the internet are after your deepest and darkest spreadsheet related secrets. Soon they will know many irrelevant things about your alliance unless you institute severe reactionary clamp-downs on access. It's how the soviet union fell man.

"predicting and copying asc could have saved the USSR" discuss.

why has noone done a phD on this?
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Unread 11 May 2009, 18:06   #69
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

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And yet most of the people who do immediately gut the memberlevel access to everything...
I didn't
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Unread 11 May 2009, 20:27   #70
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
Just wondering, do u guys think PA could come up with enough players outside Asc, to form an ally capable of rivalling them in the near future?

Im pretty sure with a strict class policy, the rest of the community could come up with 100 +/- top notch players more than capable of rivalling Asc.

Thoughts?
Undoubtedley, theres enough good players out there to rival Asc. I fear there isnt any capable leaders that cba anymore though. Most likely why we see so many small alliances.
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Unread 11 May 2009, 21:30   #71
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

There haven't been many capable leaders in PA history to be honest. I mean look at the people leading the alliances that have actually been realistic contenders. The legion group, the xanadu/ldk group which eventually transmogrified itself into exilition along with the addition of some dragons, the fury group which eventually transmogrified itself into 1up with a brief stop-off in eclipse en route, the deus (!) group which eventually transmogrified itself into ascendancy (I'm probably being a bit generous here but **** you we've got six odd rounds between us). Sure there've been a few rounds here and there won by alliances that haven't been of these groups but largely it's been the same people winning pa rounds for 9 years running now (and to be honest the others won because these groups weren't actually playing).
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Unread 11 May 2009, 21:57   #72
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

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Originally Posted by Jonas View Post
Undoubtedley, theres enough good players out there to rival Asc. I fear there isnt any capable leaders that cba anymore though. Most likely why we see so many small alliances.

i dont think it is solely the lack of leaders who can organise something, it is the inability for them to recruit the players willing to take the fight to asc.

Asc has the majority of the decent player base left in the game, and it quite simply would be hard to recruit enough players of the same calibre to compete at the same level. (am i miles off of the mark with this thought?)
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Unread 12 May 2009, 10:13   #73
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

I think you are. Asc caliber this round isnt all that high tbh, and the people in other allies of this same caliber are there, they are just scattered around alot of small alliances.

And I believe this scattered universe is the result of alliance HC decisions of previous rounds. Allies who used to be able to recruit to 90-100 easily.
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Unread 12 May 2009, 12:44   #74
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

For the record, Denial is now the only alliance to have beaten Ascendancy in the last 6 rounds (including this one). It's just a shame their reputation sucked to the point that people actually liked Ascendancy more!

Just RE: what JBG said before - Denial beat you and you WERE playing.

Duo, to be honest if it wasn't for the amount of BGs springing up there would have been more alliances this round with 90 members. This isn't a criticism levelled at the BGs, more at the alliances for not having the presence to reign these BGs in.

And no, Mek, you are not. Not entirely anyway
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Unread 12 May 2009, 12:51   #75
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

I'd have to agree with duo, the idea that we have anything close to 50% of the best players in PA at the minute is laughable. I'd hesitate to offer any sort of solid percentage but I'd guess it's about 15-20% but the definition of "best" is pretty open to interpretation.

Edit: We lost r21 to wolfpack and r20 to ct and r22 to vgn as well technically kenny. My opinion of most of those rounds is that the group that ascendancy is and was wasn't really playing. For a lot of other alliances that'd mean they wouldn't sign up but ascendancy always does. I suppose if I was really being honest I'd say that for round 27 I firmly believe we'd have beaten denial if I'd been bothered to do anything substantial. I wasn't, we lost, I can't say I regret my decision that much.
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Last edited by JonnyBGood; 12 May 2009 at 13:06.
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Unread 12 May 2009, 13:27   #76
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

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Duo, to be honest if it wasn't for the amount of BGs springing up there would have been more alliances this round with 90 members. This isn't a criticism levelled at the BGs, more at the alliances for not having the presence to reign these BGs in.
Well Kenny, its a chicken or the egg kind of question.

Did the BG's spring up and caused the allies to be unable to recruit to 90-100.

Or did these people dislike what they experienced in those alliances and left, causing BG's to spring up, where people (generally) have more control and fun, causing the alliances to be left with 50-60 ppl.

I'm voting for the egg.

reigning those BG's in? 90% of todays HC still act like it was 20 rounds ago, a small group of people deciding what 100 people are supposed to do. Times change, people change, and leadership should change. Imho Ascendancy are the only ' big ' alliance that got it. They deserve props for that.

Half of the people flock to creating BG's for that same reason. And the other half are simply left with a BG size group, cuz half left
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Unread 12 May 2009, 14:31   #77
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

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Did the BG's spring up and caused the allies to be unable to recruit to 90-100.

Or did these people dislike what they experienced in those alliances and left, causing BG's to spring up, where people (generally) have more control and fun, causing the alliances to be left with 50-60 ppl.

I'm voting for the egg.
If the egg you refer to is in keeping with the chronology of the expression then I concur, and in fact was the point I'm making. Poor leadership of alliances is what's caused the BG's to appear, which is why you'll not find CT or ND challenging this round.
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Unread 12 May 2009, 15:59   #78
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

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If the egg you refer to is in keeping with the chronology of the expression then I concur, and in fact was the point I'm making. Poor leadership of alliances is what's caused the BG's to appear, which is why you'll not find CT or ND challenging this round.
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Unread 12 May 2009, 17:37   #79
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
If the egg you refer to is in keeping with the chronology of the expression then I concur, and in fact was the point I'm making. Poor leadership of alliances is what's caused the BG's to appear, which is why you'll not find CT or ND challenging this round.
I can only speak from my own experience, but I didnt leave CT because of bad leadership, as far as Im concerned the HCs there are good and competent people. I left CT after I watched it literally crumble after pressure was applied. There were just too many planets playing only for rank, and once they lost roids, they lost interest and attack/defense participation dropped precipitously.

I think this is the case in various places around the universe and why there are so many BGs, not necessarily the leaders.
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Unread 17 May 2009, 19:04   #80
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

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And yet most of the people who do immediately gut the memberlevel access to everything...
Get the feeling that was directed at Omen last round Think I'll defend myself here and state that I was totally against the changes that were made to memberlevels, and was the first of many issues I had with hcs' tech-related decisions (I offered to set up munin for an ascendancy-like alliance). The constant hassle from members due to !intel working/semi-working/not-working was cringe-worthy (think I wasn't the only one that was expecting an ascendancy-like alliance!).

For anyone considering using munin in the future - just use the bot as it is, and spend your time doing 'fun' modifications to it [eg website interface]. Unless you're a boring dick that enjoys mundanely boring tasks that go against the philosophy behind the bot (you'll also end up with quite unbeautiful code unless you really go to town on the bot's internal coding).

Summary of this post: wishmaster sucks, not newt
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Unread 18 May 2009, 11:05   #81
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

I personally don't think it is possible.
I reckon that the only way ASC can fail now, is through some sort of internal meltdown brought about by boredom.
From my perspective one of the worst things about trying to compete with ASC at the moment, is that it if you aren't very careful, you will actually make it pretty unpleasant for people to play with your alliance.
I know this sounds insane, and will particularly rankle with foaming at the mouth ASC hating lunatics, but if the game is to not continue losing players, alliances need to focus a lot LESS on competing with ASC and a LOT more on having fun.

Last edited by HRH_H_Crab; 18 May 2009 at 11:12.
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Unread 18 May 2009, 11:26   #82
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Re: Anti Asc Allstars?

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For anyone considering using munin in the future - just use the bot as it is, and spend your time doing 'fun' modifications to it [eg website interface].
This is indeed pretty fun, and for that matter quite pretty.
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