irc replacement?

[rop1964]

i heard on different forums that irc communication may be difficult if not impossible to many players.. so after giving it a few thoughts.. i got some suggestion that could be add to supplement or replace irc..

1) use messenger type console (msn/yahoo/etc)
2) use java type consosole : http://dreegonnetworks.homeftp.org type
3) other type of chat system (icq or similar system)

of course some may have legal/technical things to settle.. but i figure they are the more likely way to add to the communication problem some have mention..

feel free to point out problem or comment.. this is just suggestions..

[Membrivio]

I may be way off, but I read something about open source MOO as a chat system. This could be tweaked into a suitable form for PA.
Mind, I am an ICT nitwit, so if I am totally wrong I accept that.

Another suggestion: slapping Mardem-Bey to develop a PirC

On the other suggestions: a messenger type would be horrid in my opinion. I hate MSN already!
And of course the question to be answered by ICT wizzkids: could it be integrated into PA (all the suggestions)?

[rop1964]

i m not up to date about moo or pirc.. the suggestion i made were base on chat system i know.. of course, anything that can be implement to add to the communication system will be a plus.

[GReaper]

Planetarion has been going so long with IRC that anyone who currently uses IRC would be rather pissed off if they had to switch, I know I certainly would.

The problem with most of the other suggestions is the same problem with IRC, not everyone can use them or wants to use them all! Also what's the point in having something in addition to IRC? If say 75% of an alliance uses IRC and 25% uses an IM, how are they supposed to communicate effectively?

What I would like to see is improved communication inside the game itself for those who can't use IRC!

The most ideal solution would be something similar to Gmail's Gtalk implementation, basically a web based Jabber solution. It would allow instant messaging to occur in the browser itself, instead of being a boring browse/refresh like the forums and ingame mail. The big problem with this is that it isn't exactly the easiest thing to implement well, it has to scale to all the players online and be usable - the current coders have little interest in UI usability issues.

The ability to comment on various important pages in the game would be a huge bonus. Why can't I add a comment to things like the galaxy status screen? If I've reported an incoming fleet I could quickly add "reported to #chan" to it, a galaxy could quickly add comments to organise a defence fleet, add links to scans, battle calcs, etc.

Improve the ingame communication and the need to rely on IRC won't be so strong.

[Monroe]

Any messaging solution would have to be built directly into the game and include chat rooms and private messages. This way there would be no need to rely on external programs to make the whole thing work. This means a lot of integration work by someone, if it could be pulled off it would help the game tremendously imo, but I'm not overly optimistic that it would ever happen.

[wakey]

Over on another thread I raised the idea of improving the communication techniques in the game, seemingly Monroe, furball and a couple of others took this as me saying "Scrap IRC and move to something else" but this wasn't what I meant. IRC is a fantastic tool thats as good if not better than any of the other solutions out there. Yes it has some downsides and yes some people cant use it due to firewalls and such like but these issues are minor compared to its strengths and when it comes to firewalls they can cripple pretty much every solution.

As I intended on the other thread and as Greaper mentions here the key isn't to replace IRC but to reduce the importance of IRC so while its still the preferred method of being involved in the game its not the be all and end all. ATM if your logged into the game but cant get on IRC your somewhat useless to your galaxy and alliance.

Simple things like a proper alliance defence system including the ability for gal mates to report your incoming, a messaging systems that can act more like a IM client, better online indication, a gal status page that can have scans attached, notes of whats needed and whats been sent ect ect attached ect ect would make it so much easier for people to get involved when at work and such like. Again it wouldn't replace IRC as the real time, multi person nature of irc (plus the multi platform nature which allows you to connect to it on pretty much every OS via many different clients or via the web from Java clients to CGI clients. Not to mention the fact that custom bots can be connected easily to help the alliance) makes it the quickest and most ideal way of dealing with things but the gap wouldn't be as huge and people would be more useful and more connected to the game

[GReaper]

One other thing, considering how many people seem to need a decent web chat solution which works over HTTP to beat firewalls, why isn't there some other form of web chat available for users? I know there's a Java applet which people use, but of course there are some strict firewalls which block it.

It could be a paid feature only to help prevent abuse of it.

[Appocomaster]

We've discussed having a CGI-IRC type client on one of the servers, but the load would be considerable and we'd have to custom hack it. It's a possibility, and something we could look to trial in the future once more research has been done into it. However, I'm already acting on other things mentioned about reducing the necessity for IRC, mainly in the form of the alliance defence system (which would now be usable), but also including some upgrading of other things. This is part of a combined effort to at least slightly reduce IRC requirement together with allowing alliances without a good technical base to not be over-penalised for it.

[Ramihyn]

I have only browsed some postings, but you may want to check this:

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...6&postcount=14
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...97#post2977797

[Appocomaster]

That's very similar (I assume) to the Java version we have, only appended to the current window?

The issue is that some people have firewall issues and so can't always use the PA client, making it impossible to get onto IRC. This was the issue that something like a CGI IRC client (which involves effectively running the IRC client on a server and using that to connect to IRC) resolves, but unfortunately is resourse intensive.

[GReaper]

There are some solutions which aren't so resource hungry, but they aren't that common (search for Cometd).

I wouldn't expect hundreds of users on it, but I'm sure some people would find it useful. It's a perfect thing to restrict to paid planets, those who actually contribute to the running costs of the servers get to use them.

This is something NetGamers should be interested in solving as well. There are scalable solutions to the problem, but they need developing to be turned into a usable product.

[Ramihyn]

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

That's very similar (I assume) to the Java version we have, only appended to the current window?

Basically yes.

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

The issue is that some people have firewall issues and so can't always use the PA client, making it impossible to get onto IRC. This was the issue that something like a CGI IRC client (which involves effectively running the IRC client on a server and using that to connect to IRC) resolves, but unfortunately is resourse intensive.

Ah ok. I have also previously suggested that Jolt could simply offer some kind of "premium" PA account where they offer HTTP(s) tunneled IRC access to netgamers for a slightly larger fee then a single PA credit costs. It could help funding the game, its technically simple, JOLT has the server resources anyway, it would protect players IP addresses without having to register with some irc-service and it would solve this problem. If you have access to the currently used java irc client sources, it should be easy to add.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by GReaper

There are some solutions which aren't so resource hungry, but they aren't that common (search for Cometd).

I wouldn't expect hundreds of users on it, but I'm sure some people would find it useful. It's a perfect thing to restrict to paid planets, those who actually contribute to the running costs of the servers get to use them.

This is something NetGamers should be interested in solving as well. There are scalable solutions to the problem, but they need developing to be turned into a usable product.

Originally Posted by Ramihyn

Ah ok. I have also previously suggested that Jolt could simply offer some kind of "premium" PA account where they offer HTTP(s) tunneled IRC access to netgamers for a slightly larger fee then a single PA credit costs. It could help funding the game, its technically simple, JOLT has the server resources anyway, it would protect players IP addresses without having to register with some irc-service and it would solve this problem. If you have access to the currently used java irc client sources, it should be easy to add.

The problem with solutions which have additional costs to them is it doesn't solve the core problem. It just helps those people who have already decided that pay really where as surely the problem is getting people who havent decided to pay yet to feel part of the community and want to put the money down in the first place.

[Ramihyn]

Originally Posted by wakey

The problem with solutions which have additional costs to them is it doesn't solve the core problem. It just helps those people who have already decided that pay really where as surely the problem is getting people who havent decided to pay yet to feel part of the community and want to put the money down in the first place.

Then do the same as nearly every other commercial service does - offer some kind of trial for it just like the free planets are kind of a "trial" of the game. You could allow each person 2 or 3 hours free irc proxying a day or you could say the first 10 to 14 days of a round the proxy use is free. You could give every planet 7 days of free proxy irc use or you do ad-supported irc proxying where people have to click a banner sometimes to continue or you simply disconnect users of a free proxy every 30 minutes. You could even limit the proxy irc use to beeing read-only once a free trial period is over.

Or how about a free irc proxy where you can write 10 sentences before it switches to read-only so you would need to reconnect

[Cochese]

I've been using ircatwork.com for about two weeks now, as the PA-IRC client won't work from the public computer center I use.

[Elevator]

Originally Posted by GReaper

Planetarion has been going so long with IRC that anyone who currently uses IRC would be rather pissed off if they had to switch, I know I certainly would.

eod.
redicules proposal and absolutely insane to think that not 70% of the active player base would quit/refuse to change to whatever new system is being integrated.

[TheBerk]

They aren't talking about replacing irc, or making you change from irc, they're talking about supplementing irc, so that those that can use it and those that can't can communicate a lot better and easier than they are now.

Ignoring the thread title of course, and going off what my sleep addled brain remembers reading of peoples suggestions these last days.

[Duo]

Originally Posted by GReaper

The ability to comment on various important pages in the game would be a huge bonus. Why can't I add a comment to things like the galaxy status screen? If I've reported an incoming fleet I could quickly add "reported to #chan" to it, a galaxy could quickly add comments to organise a defence fleet, add links to scans, battle calcs, etc.

This is something i'd like to see aswell. For people who cant get on, dont ever get on, or people who wake up when i go to sleep. So people know what is going on

[SpaceMonkey]

forums?

[lenore]

yes commenting on incomings etc ir pretty much what the forums are there for

[Mit]

IRC is good - I wouldn't bother replacing it, but as has been said. Suppliment or make it easier to access. The com unit is a start, but maybe a true web based version would be better.

Also more integration all around is needed to help link things together. (this was an aim of my passport back for PaX)

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by lenore

yes commenting on incomings etc ir pretty much what the forums are there for

I think he meant any random forum, not "the" forums.

[lenore]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

I think he meant any random forum, not "the" forums.

aah