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Unread 4 Mar 2009, 19:44   #151
berten
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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M0RPH3US formerly known as Bugz
Bugz? is that you?
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Unread 4 Mar 2009, 19:48   #152
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by -CP- View Post
I would rather sit a week and read posts from Kargool, the one line of yours tbh.. :-/
then do it !
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Unread 4 Mar 2009, 19:49   #153
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by berten View Post
Bugz? is that you?
yep, the old german fag

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Unread 4 Mar 2009, 20:00   #154
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
then do it !
Yes. You really got the point of that post didn't you...
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Unread 4 Mar 2009, 20:19   #155
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by -CP- View Post
Yes. You really got the point of that post didn't you...
no reptalk - Lok
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Unread 4 Mar 2009, 21:47   #156
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
I dont know if anyone have bothered to planet-scan CT to find out how much they have hidden, but for someone like me who has scanned the universe a dozen times thats a pretty small task.

I did not count small prods that i expect to come out tonight, since we all know everyone gotta prod some ships. I included those who have productions that matches one or both of the following criterias:

a) ridiculously huge
b) a few days worth of income

Between 28 planets, CT have a total of 12,7mill hidden value

If anyone find this information relevant you are welcome to PM me and ask for further information to make sure im not lying on the internet.

Edit: PS: i also noticed a few big stacks!
Now do ND, see how "far behind" they really are...

Yeh, didn't think so.
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Unread 4 Mar 2009, 22:00   #157
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
The following is a message that I sent, on behalf of ascendancy, ingame to an Omen and an ND HC. Given that I've never appreciated politics being limited to a set group of retards I thought I'd give everyone the opportunity to at least view what is going on at the minute, even if you play in alliances which do not allow you the opportunity to participate politically.

Desperate post from a desperate alliance........*
*
*
Asc are shitting their pants....and the funny thing is that they knows it.*
*
Never seen such a ridiculos post before...but hell first thing for everything.*
*
All credit to Jonny though for posting this dravel........but yet he haven't seen the big sceem that*'s going on.*

hehehehehehe
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Unread 4 Mar 2009, 22:06   #158
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by MotoX View Post
Desperate post from a desperate alliance........*
*
*
Asc are shitting their pants....and the funny thing is that they knows it.*
*
Never seen such a ridiculos post before...but hell first thing for everything.*
*
All credit to Jonny though for posting this dravel........but yet he haven't seen the big sceem that*'s going on.*

hehehehehehe
And your contribution to this thread is what exactly? Do you have a view on the ongoing war? Any thoughts of how it should proceed? I would be interested to hear.. Really I would.. :-/
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Unread 4 Mar 2009, 22:07   #159
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by Villeh View Post
Now do ND, see how "far behind" they really are...

Yeh, didn't think so.

And this of course explains why everyone is hitting asc?
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Unread 4 Mar 2009, 22:14   #160
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

It's not that hard really.......

Read Sandmans and all will be there.........someone will have a heartattack or something when the round is over, because more obvious that this it's hard to get.

Even though I'm not playing in any alliance today........even I figured it out


You might not bealive me today..but return after round ends and I will explain it all!
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Unread 4 Mar 2009, 22:28   #161
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

MotoX ur totally Incoherent

JBG already posted a few pages ago that he agreed it was a move of desperation... so whats ur point?
there is no shame in spinning ur way out of a terrible situation: politicians do it all the time
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Unread 4 Mar 2009, 22:33   #162
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

Must it always be a point to a post?

Read above..that's it really.


I'v been here since dawn of posts and yet have seen such drivell that I just had to post the obvious....
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Unread 4 Mar 2009, 22:46   #163
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by MotoX View Post
Must it always be a point to a post?
no unfortunately not.... if there had to be a point to each post then these forums would be a much better place... and thats the point of this particular post!
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Unread 4 Mar 2009, 22:55   #164
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

Sigh, there are so many morons posting here it hurts.

CT are over 25m ahead, taking into account Hanzi's hidden prod calculations.
If either Asc or Omen want to win (both claim they do), they have to catch up that 25m deficit. That involves catching/destroying all that extra value, which is no easy task (value is hard to kill).

If Omen continues to roid Asc dry, they rely on Asc to hold back CT's growth before it becomes too big a deficit to pull back. But that war will never end, value is too hard to kill with Asc crashing so little.

If Asc stops targeting CT and goes for someone else (Omen), CT is allowed to continue to grow and increase their lead making it insurmountable. Asc can also peg back whichever alliance they choose to target, making it pretty much set in concrete that that alliance won't win.

There's a lot of respect between Asc and Omen for each other. Two great wars were fought on fairly balanced levels (lets not get bogged down in that discussion though) until the massacre/gangbang started. Both alliances have played their part in a great round and would thoroughly deserve a win.

CT has done jack shit all round. They've hopped around. They've balanced the war by switching, which is all very well and good, but it's all they've done. They've always been periphery to the main fight. As JBG said, this is their only play.

Both Asc and Omen want to win. Targeting each other will no longer accomplish this, they won't destroy each other (as already said, value is hard to kill) - meaning it'll never end, and they'll just allow CT to carry on growing.

Ascendancy sees this now. This is what this thread is all about. Ascendancy sees that in order for either side to win in this war, they have to set their differences aside for now. Allowing CT to win would be unjust as far as the amount of effort Omen and Asc have put in is concerned.

Unfortunately, if only one side switches away from the other, that alliance will be pushed out of the picture by the other, thus paving a possible route for their enemy. (This was discussed and general consensus was agreement a few weeks ago in another thread, but CT's lead is much more significant now and so any route to victory from the alliance not switching is less likely than it was then.) Neither side wants to pave that victory for the other, and that makes sense.

But both sides want to win.

There is only one option, and that is taking CT out now. They can no longer be left "for later" for two reasons, their lead is already too big and the fact that any Omen/Asc war has no real end because destroying value is so hard.

So let's refocus. Neither Asc nor Omen are the main opposition for #1 anymore. Take CT out now, and then maybe, maybe there will be time for another war afterwards.

I realise I have repeated the same points a multitude of times, but it really is very simple. I hope people will start to see reason.
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Unread 4 Mar 2009, 23:34   #165
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
As I see it, the most likely winners of the round are Asc, since they will be able to get shitloads of XP of nice escorts the last days.
that being said, they are above most in avg. Value, and having roids at this stage of the round isnt really all that important.
"The last days" are still weeks ahead, man. Value and roids is where it's at for the time being, and implying anything else is just bullshit. I don't really care who you say you think will win, but please do come up with a logical reason, or don't try at all.
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Unread 5 Mar 2009, 10:52   #166
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

Originally posted by ellonweb:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
I think whichever side diverts attention to CT will not destroy CT before they are destroyed by the other, but then that other will be able to finish off CT so end result is the same!
Please keep this in mind when reading the rest of this post.

Recently posted by ellonweb:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
Ascendancy sees this now. This is what this thread is all about. Ascendancy sees that in order for either side to win in this war, they have to set their differences aside for now. Allowing CT to win would be unjust as far as the amount of effort Omen and Asc have put in is concerned.
And:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
So let's refocus. Neither Asc nor Omen are the main opposition for #1 anymore. Take CT out now, and then maybe, maybe there will be time for another war afterwards.
Translation: Lets take out CT together, so that once CT has well and truelly been spanked, Asc can take out omen by themselves.

Nice politics ellonweb, JBG and the rest of the crew. Creating a thread soley for the purpose of convincing the universe to wash your own dirty dishes. Asc manipulation at work ladies and gents: Lets get you guys to reduce the Asc victory odds from 1/3 to 1/2 while we sit here and lolz at you all.

If you want us all to do your dirty work, please dont insult us by playing us for fools.

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Unread 5 Mar 2009, 11:14   #167
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
Asc manipulation at work ladies and gents: Lets get you guys to reduce the Asc victory odds from 1/3 to 1/2 while we sit here and lolz at you all.

If you want us all to do your dirty work, please dont insult us by playing us for fools.
Compared with the politics that created the block in the first place, which went along the lines of "ohnoes, you can't let Asc win a third one, so everyone's gotta team up to take them down while we sit back and enjoy the rewards." Hardly subtle on CT's part, but hey, it's all just politics.
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Unread 5 Mar 2009, 11:16   #168
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
(This was discussed and general consensus was agreement a few weeks ago in another thread, but CT's lead is much more significant now and so any route to victory from the alliance not switching is less likely than it was then.)
I'm not asking anyone to do anyone else's dirty work. Asc and Omen have done all the major warring so far. Neither side can win at the moment. For either side to not win, it would be an injustice. I do not care which of the two wins, both have earned a victory. If Asc and Omen want to win, they need to stop hitting each other temporarily, not doing someone else's dirty work but their own: they need to stop being short sighted.

To suggest now that as things stand, without a change, that Asc's victory odds are 1/3 is the most deluded idea I have seen on the forums. It's just so plain wrong it hurts.
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Unread 5 Mar 2009, 11:35   #169
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
If Asc and Omen want to win, they need to stop hitting each other temporarily, not doing someone else's dirty work but their own: they need to stop being short sighted.
If Asc has such a problem with CT winning the round, im sure theyre more than capable of attacking CT by themselves to achieve the win which you believe Asc deserve. Why should Omen or the rest of the universe to dance to Asc's tune? Just cos you want the win?

Im sorry but when Omen where on the other side of this, a few short days ago, there where no Asc crying for Omen to team with them to hit CT. You guys where more than willing to sit on your throne and hand out the beatings to Omen. Now the roles have reversed, you cry foul and immediately try to manipulate other alliances into attacking your partner from not so long ago? While the same can be said for CT to an extent, they have been switching their focus between 2 waring allies, unlike Asc who are trying to push the war on to someone else.

CT have been playing the game, not forum politics.

I wonder who the next ally is to be on the "team with them while it suits us, then knife them in the back" list.
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Unread 5 Mar 2009, 11:47   #170
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
If Asc has such a problem with CT winning the round, im sure theyre more than capable of attacking CT by themselves to achieve the win which you believe Asc deserve. Why should Omen or the rest of the universe to dance to Asc's tune? Just cos you want the win?
In case you weren't paying attention, that's exactly what Asc was doing at the beginning of the week. However when you have the rest of the universe anally raping you it's kind of hard to fight such a war, and Asc was only able to limit CT's growth.

Quote:
Im sorry but when Omen where on the other side of this, a few short days ago
WHAT?! Are you really that deluded? When was all alliances in the top 5 besides Omen hitting them? No-one in Omen even claims such silly things.

Quote:
unlike Asc who are trying to push the war on to someone else.
Yes, it's true Ascendancy are trying to push the war onto someone else. That's what politics are. With things as they are Asc cannot win, neither can we be crippled such that our opponents can shift their focus off us and target their main opposition for #1. (Value is too hard to kill.) So Asc can sit pretty at #3 (perhaps slipping to #4 over time as we are out grown due to our short supply of roids), which is incredibly boring for us, and completely unproductive for ANYONE wanting to win this round, except for CT ofcourse.

So yes, Asc are trying to give themselves a chance at winning. That's obvious, no-one is denying it. What I'm trying to make clear is that neither Asc nor anyone else (bar CT) can win without that shift in politics, and sooner rather than later, because as said, value is hard to kill, and CT have a lot of it!

Please stop this ridiculous attempt at propaganda JM.
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Unread 5 Mar 2009, 12:23   #171
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
So yes, Asc are trying to give themselves a chance at winning. That's obvious, no-one is denying it. What I'm trying to make clear is that neither Asc nor anyone else (bar CT) can win without that shift in politics, and sooner rather than later, because as said, value is hard to kill, and CT have a lot of it!

Please stop this ridiculous attempt at propaganda JM.
With a month left in the round you can make such statements with omniscient confidence? There is a month left ffs, a MONTH, youre dramitically playing it up as if the round will be over next tick if everyone doesnt send 999999999 waves at CT. A little melodramatic perhaps?

As for value being hard to kill, iirc, Asc had no problem chasing down denial and nox together in r26 and made an awesome show against denial again in round 27. On both occasions the #1 ally at the time had a significant value advantage, yet in a matter of days, it was destroyed.

As for value being hard to kill: With Asc being better at not crashing than the rest of the game (slightly edited quote from someone?), combined with a somewhat suspect CT style of play, i dont find value hard to kill at all. Furthermore, from experience, a particular ally out there likes to play feudalism alot, a gov which benefits value fights better than any other.


Is it possible to find out with which allies Hirr are currently working closest with (allegedly Asc?) I have a slight suspicion that come crunch time, theyll play a big part with lemming runs, be it FC or value kills, with a high possibility of becoming a pawn for a far more politically astute ally, who shall remain nameless.
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Unread 5 Mar 2009, 12:36   #172
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

Quote:
Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post

As for value being hard to kill, iirc, Asc had no problem chasing down denial and nox together in r26 and made an awesome show against denial again in round 27. On both occasions the #1 ally at the time had a significant value advantage, yet in a matter of days, it was destroyed.

Is it possible to find out with which allies Hirr are currently working closest with (allegedly Asc?) I have a slight suspicion that come crunch time, theyll play a big part with lemming runs, be it FC or value kills, with a high possibility of becoming a pawn for a far more politically astute ally, who shall remain nameless.
In R26 Asc had the support if not active co-operation of ALL of the active Universe bar DeNoX in the last few weeks; that situation is totally reversed.

The support of hirr (no caps btw) will own im sure! but if Asc said they were going to win due to their alliance with F-crew they would be laughed out of town! hirr is hardly a huge factor!
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Unread 5 Mar 2009, 12:36   #173
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

Lemming runs don't kill value (salvage, anyone?). And yes, we're napped with hirr. ROCK too, if I'm not mistaken. Fear us.
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Unread 5 Mar 2009, 12:49   #174
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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As for value being hard to kill: With Asc being better at not crashing than the rest of the game (slightly edited quote from someone?), combined with a somewhat suspect CT style of play, i dont find value hard to kill at all. Furthermore, from experience, a particular ally out there likes to play feudalism alot, a gov which benefits value fights better than any other.
Honestly, relying on other allies to mess up to be able to catch up to them (in terms of value) is a pretty retarded way to play.
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Unread 5 Mar 2009, 13:01   #175
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Nice politics ellonweb, JBG and the rest of the crew. Creating a thread soley for the purpose of convincing the universe to wash your own dirty dishes. Asc manipulation at work ladies and gents: Lets get you guys to reduce the Asc victory odds from 1/3 to 1/2 while we sit here and lolz at you all.

If you want us all to do your dirty work, please dont insult us by playing us for fools.
but doesnt that also make it 1/3 to 1/2 for Omen as well? and with the Universe not wanting Asc to win.. After CT is taken out, what stops the other allys (including CT) nap'ing Omen to take Asc out?

Its pretty much a fact that the longer Omen and Asc's personal war goes on, the higher CT's chances of winning are and thus, lower Omens/Asc's chances of winning. So there is a point where Omen and Asc will have to stop hitting each other to take out CT and alot of people are starting to think that point is now.
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Unread 5 Mar 2009, 13:49   #176
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Hirr
It's hirr, you infidel.
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Unread 5 Mar 2009, 13:58   #177
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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It's hirr, you infidel.
OlaTa is right!

/me adds [JungleMuffin] to the list of potential lemmingrun targets
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Unread 5 Mar 2009, 14:19   #178
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

lammington run?

as for Hirr instead of hirr, forgive me, my caps lock often resorts to cruise control.

/me huggles OlaTa

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Unread 5 Mar 2009, 15:51   #179
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

It's okay, we decided around tick 90 that Olata would be the target this round anyway
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Unread 5 Mar 2009, 21:57   #180
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
Translation: Lets take out CT together, so that once CT has well and truelly been spanked, Asc can take out omen by themselves.

Nice politics ellonweb, JBG and the rest of the crew. Creating a thread soley for the purpose of convincing the universe to wash your own dirty dishes. Asc manipulation at work ladies and gents: Lets get you guys to reduce the Asc victory odds from 1/3 to 1/2 while we sit here and lolz at you all.

If you want us all to do your dirty work, please dont insult us by playing us for fools.
Not really no. Obviously people have talked about value and its impact on the game. There is probably little doubt that Ascendancy will make more of its value than say Conspiracy would in a one on one contest but such a contest cannot exist in the current political arena. So Wishmaster's post earlier on about teamwork and morale is essentially talking about a situation that cannot exist at the present time. Omen are reminding me of Angels in many aspects; they are more afraid of an alliance that they can potentially beat later on politically rather than the alliance they almost certainly lose to should they do nothing.

There comes a point where Conspiracy can legitimately encourage landings where they get a greater value loss but inflict so much damage on the opposition that the opposition can't possibly justify landing it through a substantial value lead. JBG's point is not to play politics to ensure an ascendancy victory - if you think he'd go to the universe with a plan like that you're horribly naive. Asc know very well that people will not let them win easily. They're well aware they cannot sell any political plan without mutual benefit to those who buy into it.

What is merely suggested here is a path to victory for more than just Conspiracy Theory but instead one for Ascendancy, NewDawn and Omen with them, i.e. an open round. Once that's achieved, Ascendancy would still have a massive task ahead, as I suspect the politics would be very much against them once that situation became reality.

In the end Ascendancy have taken an extreme decision and given the usual stellar diplomacy of JBG, I doubt this was a decision made lightly. NewDawn, despite having hit Ascendancy quite strongly thus far, decided it was in their best interests to stop. And contrary to popular belief, they are not the kind of people to be cowed by threats and have a track record of being quite rational in their politics. On the other hand, Omen seem to have a rather unhealthy obsession with not finishing behind Ascendancy, but the lessons from past rounds are clear. They can risk finishing behind Ascendancy in a battle for #1 (although they might equally win), or they can more than likely finish 4th and see their efforts largely wasted.

If you're not prepared to argue game mechanics and likely scenarios and outcomes based on various political actions, then all you've got is empty hysteria. Which is pretty much where you are at right now in posts full of baseless assertions that you won't even attempt to evidence or justify.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 10:58   #181
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

If ND are to work with Asc in taking out CT, and at some point manage to be competitive value/roid count wise, which is a likely scenario, i find it highly unlikely that Asc would not, possibly along with hirr and ROCK, eventually redirect their focus toward attacking ND. In this situation, ND would have an enemy in both Asc and CT, possibly with more on top. Is it beneficial for ND to increase the number of hostile fleets they have heading towards their own planets?

As ND sit now, they, for the most part, are able to sit off to the side and let u guys bring each other down. At some point if Asc want to win, which we are assured they do, they must attack CT, in which case CT growth would be stunted (if not reduced) enough with value/roid loss, for ND to step into the void left by 3 waring factions.

Another possible scenario is ND actually coming out on the wrong side of a war with CT or perhaps Omen. This in ND's best interest?

If these situations are possible, how is it beneficial for them to attack CT, especially when you guys will do it for them? Sure, you can say that it brings CT back to the pack, but that is inevitably going to happen anyways, thanks to you guys. Why should ND fight a war that you will fight for them?
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 11:08   #182
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
If ND are to work with Asc in taking out CT, and at some point manage to be competitive value/roid count wise, which is a likely scenario, i find it highly unlikely that Asc would not, possibly along with hirr and ROCK, eventually redirect their focus toward attacking ND. In this situation, ND would have an enemy in both Asc and CT, possibly with more on top. Is it beneficial for ND to increase the number of hostile fleets they have heading towards their own planets?
This is possible. But by taking down CT, there's going to be one less alliance ahead of them. ND are not unfamiliar with playing the politics in the top, though, and I doubt they need my or your help to figure this out.

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As ND sit now, they, for the most part, are able to sit off to the side and let u guys bring each other down. At some point if Asc want to win, which we are assured they do, they must attack CT, in which case CT growth would be stunted (if not reduced) enough with value/roid loss, for ND to step into the void left by 3 waring factions.
I don't know man, at the moment I'm pretty much feeling that just hitting thick and dimwitted people the rest of the round would suffice, for my part.

That said, if we want to win, more than one thing needs to happen. As you say, we must attack CT. And we'll need some room to breathe in. If not both of these happen, then we're not exactly going to be a threat, and since we won't be able to win, we might as well **** around doing other things. We're not unfamiliar with that concept.

Quote:
Another possible scenario is ND actually coming out on the wrong side of a war with CT or perhaps Omen.
Yes. When you fight to win, risks are made.

That said, I guess you guys aren't very used to fighting for the win, and given your way of playing this round, it doesn't exactly surprise me that you advice caution.

This is valid advice, but dear lord, where the **** are your balls?

Quote:
If these situations are possible, how is it beneficial for them to attack CT, especially when you guys will do it for them? Sure, you can say that it brings CT back to the pack, but that is inevitably going to happen anyways, thanks to you guys. Why should ND fight a war that you will fight for them?
Why should we fight the war for ND?

Because we've stated that we want to win. Presumably, ND wouldn't mind winning either. CT are in the way. At the moment, we are not.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 11:26   #183
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

I presume by "your" you are inferring that i am CT. This is incorrect. I am in neither CT or Omen. I am in an ally not contending for the win. Incase u where wondering how myself/ally potentially benefit from my posts, we dont. This is just an honest opinion from someone who has nothing to gain from t4 politics. And your ally is?

I didnt quite understand how you addressed my question, could you please rephrase it for me.

Why should ND fight a war with CT, when Asc will fight it for them? If its because they want to win, could you please elaborate on how letting Asc war with CT for them, thereby weakening both CT and Asc, while they grow unhindered, isnt a positive situation for ND?

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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 11:32   #184
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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I presume by "your" you are inferring that i am CT. This is incorrect. I am in neither CT or Omen.
You are right, and I'll keep that in mind in the future.

Quote:
Why should ND fight a war with CT, when Asc will fight it for them? If its because they want to win, could you please elaborate on how letting Asc war with CT for them, while they grow unhindered, isnt a positive situation for ND?
Because, in all honestly, with the kind of value CT have been able to build up because they've been sitting on top roidcount practically the entire round, Ascendancy might not be enough.

Can you please tell me how letting Ascendancy fight CT alone, without result, is going to be a positive situation for ND?
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 11:35   #185
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

Where did you get the impression that JBG was asking ND/Omen to actually hit CT with Asc? Seemed more like he was asking for breathing space so we can go 1v1 with CT or something. That would keep Asc in the running for #1. Hitting them whilst being hit by ND/Omen takes Asc out of the running whilst doing what ND/Omen need to do (take down or at least peg back CT)
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 11:38   #186
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Where did you get the impression that JBG was asking ND/Omen to actually hit CT with Asc? Seemed more like he was asking for breathing space so we can go 1v1 with CT or something. That would keep Asc in the running for #1. Hitting them whilst being hit by ND/Omen takes Asc out of the running whilst doing what ND/Omen need to do (take down or at least peg back CT)
Breathing space is what JBG suggested, yes. This is what JungleMuffin suggested. I don't have a problem with either.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 11:45   #187
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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I presume by "your" you are inferring that i am CT. This is incorrect. I am in neither CT or Omen. I am in an ally not contending for the win. Incase u where wondering how myself/ally potentially benefit from my posts, we dont. This is just an honest opinion from someone who has nothing to gain from t4 politics. And your ally is?
Right, since you modified this twice after I posted...

I don't really give a shit who your alliance is. I'm posting against the opinions you propose here, not whichever your alliance is. I haven't posted any significant volume of posts in probably about a year here, and you still manage to provoke me enough, somehow.

I have never been hiding that I am Ascendancy. Neither have I been hiding that we would definitely benefit from someone hitting CT. Are your last two sentences meant to imply that I'm not posting my honest opinions here?
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 12:44   #188
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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I have never been hiding that I am Ascendancy. Neither have I been hiding that we would definitely benefit from someone hitting CT. Are your last two sentences meant to imply that I'm not posting my honest opinions here?
No, i am not implying that at all. Simply, all i am saying is this. ND are in the position to kill 2 birds with no stones, as Kila so deftly pointed out.

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Hitting them whilst being hit by ND/Omen takes Asc out of the running whilst doing what ND/Omen need to do (take down or at least peg back CT)
Secondly, my apologies for firing you up, that was not my intention at all. If i have wronged you in the past, i am sorry, for the most part ive tried to be a decent member of the PA community, allthough it often looks different :/
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 13:11   #189
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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Right, since you modified this twice after I posted...

I don't really give a shit who your alliance is. I'm posting against the opinions you propose here, not whichever your alliance is. I haven't posted any significant volume of posts in probably about a year here, and you still manage to provoke me enough, somehow.

I have never been hiding that I am Ascendancy. Neither have I been hiding that we would definitely benefit from someone hitting CT. Are your last two sentences meant to imply that I'm not posting my honest opinions here?
What are your opinions then, stop contradicting yourself and either post your posts or DONT post.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 13:22   #190
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

ND are NOT in a position to kill to birds with one stone. As JBG said, Asc will no longer do the leg work for others in the knowledge that they will not be given a chance to benefit from their work.

Give Asc that chance (be it "breathing space" or actual cooperation) and then things will be different.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 13:27   #191
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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What are your opinions then, stop contradicting yourself and either post your posts or DONT post.
How about you stop making these dreadful posts of yours? :crymeariver:
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 13:32   #192
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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. As JBG said, Asc will no longer do the leg work for others in the knowledge that they will not be given a chance to benefit from their work.
In that case, then they are taking themselves out of the race for #1. Does that really sound like something Asc would do?

As we speak, ND is on level pegging with CT. I dont think they want to make this round a 4 horse race, when they can sit on equal roids with CT for quite some time (not to mention establish a solid and competitive value foundation) and make it a 2 horse race at worse.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 13:41   #193
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

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In that case, then they are taking themselves out of the race for #1. Does that really sound like something Asc would do?
We have always been an alliance that evaluated their current position and options over and over again and then decided what would offer us the most fun. Clearly, if winning the round is not an option any longer (and it is no option for us with the current state of 3 top 5 alliances combining their efforts on us, realistically speaking), then we might as well just decide to be the usual assholes we are and have fun by simply killing single planets / alliances / galaxies as we used to for entertainment's sake.
So it boils down to the point that the other competing alliances have to offer Asc something in order to make Asc help them fulfill their goals, and I think it is also pretty obvious that NewDawn have noticed that and it is up to Omen/VGN to realize this as well.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 13:51   #194
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

Quote:
Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
In that case, then they are taking themselves out of the race for #1. Does that really sound like something Asc would do?
I don't really know. I haven't played for a while, and at the moment, I'm pretty much going along with what everyone else decides. I'd also like to point out that ellonweb is in a better position to know this than you.

That said, our history of taking out top galaxies and planets with absolutely no other reason than the fun of it, should indicate that winning isn't all we care about. Like Heartless has already pointed out, we're not averse to changing our goals in the middle of a round, should it make sense for us.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 14:19   #195
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless View Post
We have always been an alliance that evaluated their current position and options over and over again and then decided what would offer us the most fun. Clearly, if winning the round is not an option any longer (and it is no option for us with the current state of 3 top 5 alliances combining their efforts on us, realistically speaking), then we might as well just decide to be the usual assholes we are and have fun by simply killing single planets / alliances / galaxies as we used to for entertainment's sake.
So it boils down to the point that the other competing alliances have to offer Asc something in order to make Asc help them fulfill their goals, and I think it is also pretty obvious that NewDawn have noticed that and it is up to Omen/VGN to realize this as well.
It really does make ones heart glow to know that alliances like this are the pre eminent force in this game. Its disappointing that an alliance of Ascendancy's stature works basically along the lines of: Help us win, or well make sure you dont. Nice.

Is that what its come to? ND/Omen/VGN must help Asc fight their own battle and take out CT, or else theyll drag you down with them?

Not much of an option for other allies out there as far as i can see. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 14:25   #196
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

Furthermore, on a purely hypothtical basis, if Asc/whoever come out on the winning side of any potential war, other alliances are left in the same situation:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless View Post
So it boils down to the point that the other competing alliances have to offer Asc something in order to make Asc help them fulfill their goals,
Give Asc what they want, OR, entertainment permitting, ELSE.

This sounds like an all round win for everyone........
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 14:43   #197
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

Quote:
Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
It really does make ones heart glow to know that alliances like this are the pre eminent force in this game. Its disappointing that an alliance of Ascendancy's stature works basically along the lines of: Help us win, or well make sure you dont. Nice.
Seriously to god...

Why should an alliance help others to win if it won't even give themselves the remote chance as well? Are you seriously suggesting now that Asc should say "HEY WE CAN'T WIN, BUT WE'LL TRY OUR HARDEST TO LET (insert random alliance) WIN"

How I see it now is:-

Asc have said they want to win, and will try to win and persue whatever is required to allow themselves a chance, however other alliances have decided that Asc even having a remote chance of winning is unacceptable. What are you actually expecting Asc to do? Say 'thank you' and leave these alliances alone?

It's pretty simple, if an alliance has gone out of their way to ruin Asc's round, I would fully expect Asc to return the favour once they have established they can't possibly win themselves.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 14:43   #198
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

Quote:
Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
It really does make ones heart glow to know that alliances like this are the pre eminent force in this game. Its disappointing that an alliance of Ascendancy's stature works basically along the lines of: Help us win, or well make sure you dont. Nice.
It would be plain idiocy not to seek help when you realize that you can no longer achieve your goals without it. "Help us win, or we'll make sure you don't" is a little oversimplification of this issue, but it comes pretty close to the reality, indeed. A more precise description would be "Eliminate our chances to win right now and you go **** off right there, we won't help you later if you'd need our help."

Quote:
Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
Is that what its come to? ND/Omen/VGN must help Asc fight their own battle and take out CT, or else theyll drag you down with them?

Not much of an option for other allies out there as far as i can see. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.
Not quite the point to which it boils down to. From Ascendancy's point of view we realized CT is running away and thus shifted our focus towards CT. I don't know if anyone of us talked to other alliances about this, but it would be stupid to not have done this, so I presume someone did. However, it seemed like everyone else thought: "Cool, Ascendancy will peg CT back, and since we all know that we must beat Ascendancy as well in order to win this round, and Ascendancy is far stronger than CT, let's keep on hitting Ascendancy while they are busy with CT". Fair point of view, really. I have nothing against that as it sounds like a good option. However, Ascendancy also realized that with everyone else choosing that option Ascendancy would waste a lot of effort for no worthwhile outcome. So JBG went to ND / Omen telling them that and made this thread. Nothing more, nothing less. If we're not allowed to have entertainment by competing for the top spot we might as well have entertainment in a different way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Game^ View Post
Seriously to god...

Why should an alliance help others to win if it won't even give themselves the remote chance as well? Are you seriously suggesting now that Asc should say "HEY WE CAN'T WIN, BUT WE'LL TRY OUR HARDEST TO LET (insert random alliance) WIN"

How I see it now is:-

Asc have said they want to win, and will try to win and persue whatever is required to allow themselves a chance, however other alliances have decided that Asc even having a remote chance of winning is unacceptable. What are you actually expecting Asc to do? Say 'thank you' and leave these alliances alone?

It's pretty simple, if an alliance has gone out of their way to ruin Asc's round, I would fully expect Asc to return the favour once they have established they can't possibly win themselves.
Sums it up pretty well.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 14:52   #199
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

"We will make sure CT doesn't win, but only if you give us a chance to win, which is exactly what we're giving you. If you do not give us that chance, then we have nothing to gain from attacking CT, and we will attack other alliances instead. Since you have been overwhelmingly hostile to us, it is not unreasonable for us to hit back."
Or
"We are not taking ourselves out of the running. In the current political landscape, we are not in the running. As long as we are gangbanged upon, no one will ever catch up with CT, especially not us. Therefore it makes no sense for us to keep attacking CT, and we will attack elsewhere. If you wish to prevent this, you need to affect a political change."

(Yes, though my post is worded in the present tense, I know that the change has in fact already taken place)

[edit]Heartless and Game have explained it pretty well.
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Unread 6 Mar 2009, 14:52   #200
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Re: An open message to Planetarion

It's like this.
JBG knows that if everyone keeps attacking ASC the way they are they will have no chance of victory. He's making out that CT's lead is so huge that everyone should turn on them. But he realises that with more than 4 weeks to go that this lead could be whittled down within a week (with crashes, catches, xp). He knows if CT are hit they will crumble fast.
I hate the fact that ASC have dominated so much in the last 2 rounds. AND I mostly hate the arrogance of messages on the forums saying how great they are and how easy they win and how good they are politically.

Let no one be unaware of the fact that ASC can win this round. AND they can win it quite easily if everyone plays game for them (as usual).
If we approach the final week of the round with ASC players on here saying how great they are and how they dominated politics again from an almost beaten position I will personally feel sick.

DON'T LET IT HAPPEN

Ascendancy must be constantly attacked for the next 2 weeks. Then CT, ND and Omen can have a shot at the title in the final 2 weeks.

Just my 2 cents
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