Planetarion Forums

Avenged · 2 Jun 2005, 21:17

Message sent on behalf of the [APA] Officers

It has come to the attention in the small hours of this morning that
one of the [APA] officers is a multi.

To set the record straight before things kick off, we had an echo bot in the FC private chan, all the APA officers were under the assumption that the access was gained by a random fluke. Bodders will vouch for the occasional access slip up in FC as he had access for the first 200 ticks under his normal nick. This resulted in us playing a few pranks on FC which I can say we found quite funny at the time.

It later came to our attention after the bot had been discovered that there was an account attached to it, this was a great shock resulting in a long a tedious search for the potential multi, we came to the conclusion that Jackal (an [APA] HC) was the potential multi. We reported to MH last night and concluded this morning, we are still gaining feedback

APA as an alliance strictly follows the rules so as a result Jackal was immediately removed from the alliance by a unanimous decision from the active officers. We were closely involved with the FC HC's (Wakey and CM) on this serious matter as well making sure that they were informed of all the recent developments.

As of now Jackal is removed from the alliance and is banned from rejoining the alliance, i am lead to believe that both the accounts have been removed. We hope the actions of one individual don't tarnish the reputation of APA

On a final note, I would like to apologise on behalf of APA to FC, if we were spying in your chan (as we were lead to believe) though gaining access due to noobish actions we would merely laugh. But as it has occurred to us that a member broke the rules of the game to gain the access we extend our sincere apologies and ask for forgiveness.

Bodders · 2 Jun 2005, 21:20

As you can see we have taken this matter very seriously and acted swiftly to correct this error.

Personally i expect a load of negative remarks to be left here as a result of this, but i hope people will see that we were not aware of this and i hope that you do not think less of [APA] as an alliance as a result.

noah02 · 2 Jun 2005, 21:27

I dont think less of APA at all

I am just glad you got the ball rolling.

Avenged · 2 Jun 2005, 21:47

We wanted to get as many facts out as pos at once before the rumors started, when we know more you will know more, but we decided it was better coiming from us first hand then a third party

(i know wakey was alreay working on a post and thank him for listening to my request)

[20:47] <Ave|OutOfIt> We are currently compiling a thread for the forums, could you please refrain your members from creating one, we as an alliance feal it important to explain what has happened and why we chose the course of actions we chose, withough a thrid party post

[20:50] <Wakey|afk> grrr id spent hours crafy a post that wouldnt get me sacked as mod, now i'll have to bin it

barney · 2 Jun 2005, 21:52

yup, assuming everything is truthful well played guys

, would hope all allies would have taken the same action, however much i doubt it.

/me has more respect for APA than he used to have

Rinoa · 2 Jun 2005, 22:30

Looks like APA's success has gone to your head and someone followed you home

sry been wanting to use that on ad for a while

Gate · 2 Jun 2005, 22:34

Seems like you did the honourable thing, well played guys.

noah02 · 2 Jun 2005, 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rinoa

Looks like APA's success has gone to your head and someone followed you home

sry been wanting to use that on ad for a while

hmmm but thats the 2nd time i have seen it posted now today.

G.K Zhukov · 2 Jun 2005, 23:04

Wow, respect to APA.

Its a huge difference in how things turned out after Focht got cought, or Rabbagast for instace...

Jackal · 2 Jun 2005, 23:26

I'd just like to say that i'm not a multi, i was representing someone in my class at uni on irc to gain intel on F-Crew

And as such of this whole mess, this will be my last round

see you all around

jerome · 2 Jun 2005, 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rinoa

Looks like APA's success has gone to your head and someone followed you home

sry been wanting to use that on ad for a while

No, YOU with your cath whining = a drama llama, this thread is nothing short of admirable.

Much love to APA for their actions

notsure · 3 Jun 2005, 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackal

I'd just like to say that i'm not a multi, i was representing someone in my class at uni on irc to gain intel on F-Crew

And as such of this whole mess, this will be my last round

see you all around

Unfortunately, at no point were any of the other APA officers aware that there was a PA account associated with the bot - be it yours or anyone elses.

Had we known, the bot would never have been used.

There was obviously enough evidence for the multi-hunter team to deem a breach of the rules had occurred, and close both the planets in question. If indeed the 2nd planet is that of a friend, then the required action would have been to apply for an exception as stated on the overview screen in game.

As Avenged has stated above the decision to remove you from [APA], and pass on what information we had to the PA Team was made by all of the officers online at the time, and was unanimous.

wakey · 3 Jun 2005, 00:10

Quote:

Message sent on behalf of the [APA] Officers

It has come to the attention in the small hours of this morning that one
of the [APA] officersis a multi.

Planets in question are:

Jackal of Aerhes x:x:x main account [APA]
Goldy of Locks x:x:x Multi account [F-Crew]

this was brought to our attention by F-Crew HC who had deteced that we
were spying on their private channel, they provided the co-ords of the
multi account.

The IPs used as stated by mIRC are as follows:

Jackal|Laptop ([email protected]) Quit (Quit)
Johny ([email protected]) Quit (Quit)

Our concerns were confirmed to the point when Jackall claimed the
following on mIRC (not sure if this is good enough evidence but its a link)
--------------------------------------------------------------
4[00:29] <Jackal|Laptop> wakey wants me to attack you with my other
account ---
-----------------------------------------------------------
<Jackal|Laptop> shit
<Jackal|Laptop> if my accounts get ****ed i will not be happy
<Jackal|Laptop> plus
<Jackal|Laptop> they have no proof
<Jackal|Laptop> so what if me and him share the same ip
<Jackal|Laptop> hello
<Jackal|Laptop> public proxy
<Jackal|Laptop> for the entire uni
--------------------------------------------------------------
<Avenged> [01:05] <Avenged> what other account, i dont know what your an
about <Avenged> [01:06] <Cm> ok
<Avenged> [01:07] <Cm> play dumb
<Avenged> [01:07] <Avenged> i am dumb
<Avenged> [01:07] <Cm> was easy to know in the end
<Avenged> [01:07] <Cm>

<monkey-away> they think it was avenged
<monkey-away> hmm
<monkey-away> interesting
<Jackal|Laptop> yeah
<tom|ill> hmm
<Jackal|Laptop> still thou
<Jackal|Laptop> if my account get ****ed i will not be happy
<Avenged> oh well, impossible to pin that on me
<Bodders> irc logs are not evidence, r they?
<Jackal|Laptop> but if they do a search they will see i pritty much only
access from the same ip
<Jackal|Laptop> we will we
<monkey-away> see
<Jackal|Laptop> see
<Jackal|Laptop> yes
<Jackal|Laptop> time to go join the borg with it or something
<monkey-away>

<Jackal|Laptop> i will see if i can play dumb tomorrow
<monkey-away> what we need next round is a full time spy
<Jackal|Laptop> lol
<Jackal|Laptop> off to bed
<Jackal|Laptop> nn
<monkey-away> nn Jackal|Laptop
--------------------------------------------------------------

This is the series of events that has brought us to this point and our
e-mail.

[APA] do not support cheaters in this game and as such jackal has been
removed from the alliance pending on the results of your search.

This e-mail has be cc to relevant [APA] officers and the reporting
[F-Crew] officer.

Will probally post an official responce from F-Crew later BUT with Jackal claiming its not true I just thought I'd post the mail which APA sent the MH which contains logs. You clearly see him admit to it and then basically boast that they couldnt touch him

Also further evidence has to go to the fact that both of the planets in question exiled at the same time in what seemed a clear attempt to decive the MH

furball · 3 Jun 2005, 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rinoa

Looks like APA's success has gone to your head and someone followed you home

sry been wanting to use that on ad for a while

Rinoa, after our little IRC chat my opinion of you actually rose a lot. However, your twattishness on both PD and here means that you have re-assumed the title of 'faggot'.

To APA, good going, and I'm glad to see the instant boot being applied. Well played.

furball.

demiGOD · 3 Jun 2005, 05:02

Hats off to [APA].

ironhell · 3 Jun 2005, 07:41

APA is still afraid to hit f-crew, instead, they rather scan f-crew planets and piggyback their attacks...

For real, Hats of to APA ffs...

The_Fish · 3 Jun 2005, 08:06

gj APA, have some rep.

Banned · 3 Jun 2005, 08:31

Bodders · 3 Jun 2005, 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ironhell

APA is still afraid to hit f-crew, instead, they rather scan f-crew planets and piggyback their attacks...

For real, Hats of to APA ffs...

This is where you are indeed miss informed, the bot in question was a relay bot in #FPC we did not need to scan F-Crew planets as we knew where they were going before they launched.

Also we did not piggyback their attacks we launched before them and landed before, we were messing around with F-Crew in this respect we actually expected to draw defence and not be able to land but we didnt draw out any defence F-Crew waves got the defence our fleets were ignored.

U tell me that when you eta 1 on a planet and your target has no defence that you are not going to land, especially when the people behind you recalled due to the defence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by #FPC

#FPC <@Wakey|Laptop> people do care Yoshi^ but its just that theres other areas which getting our co-ords is easier to get them from than the bot. For starters i know for a fact APA are scanning every one of the galaxies tsp attacks

#FPC <TSP> actually, I'm convinced they know of our attacks before I launch Wakey

TSP was indeed correct, if we were taking it seriuosly would we have been naming our fleets in such a manner as 'FC incomin next tick' and many other names.

End of the day its a war game if myself our any other member of [APA] land on a target is it because we have the oppertunity to, even if it started as a joke.

god113 · 3 Jun 2005, 09:44

Ooh, wicked. Cm saved the day again \o/

ReligFree · 3 Jun 2005, 10:24

Yea fair enough, you've come out + stated whats happened + i think thats all ppl can ask for.

GL in rest of the round + bad HC *slaps*

tombcfc · 3 Jun 2005, 10:57

thanks for your support guys it is well appreciated, it was a tough decission to make to kick a fellow officer but It would have been the same for any officer or member under those circumstances

Cannon_Fodder · 3 Jun 2005, 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rinoa

Looks like APA's success has gone to your head and someone followed you home

sry been wanting to use that on ad for a while

Stop stealing stuff from GD.

And well done APA.

Rinoa · 3 Jun 2005, 11:59

I wondered how APA has managed to win the war with F-crew and now we see why. spying on their private channels whole round = teh lame

Hopefully that jackal dude wont show his face again, but can u honestly say that you never knew he was spying? didnt you get suspicous when he was lakin all intel to you etc

Bodders · 3 Jun 2005, 12:09

We were never at war with F-Crew past the unlucky members who got caughtin the cross fire of a galaxy attack or 3.

The bot relayed all information in to a channel that was monitored by a group of officers. Jackal was there and so was Johny, as my mIRC does not show ip addresses on join and quit i didnt even know they were the same until i checked it against the [APA] defence bot.

I knew we had a spy (well a bot) but didnt realise Jackal was running it. Even if i did know i would not have been bothered that he was spying on them himself using the bot.

It is the fact that the second account exists that was the problem and was unknown to all [APA] officers, when Wakey and CM told us that they had found the bot they also said that there was an account attached to it, it was at that point that we realised that there was a multi within [APA].

Spying is not breaking the rules, i got access as Avenged mentioned by a pure slip up and oversight on FC's part and I assumed so did Jackal.

However being a multi is, hence we took the action we did.

Guran · 3 Jun 2005, 13:36

Ofcourse there was an account attached to it. You thought F-Crew would allow people in their private channels that don't have planets.

Gate · 3 Jun 2005, 13:50

Haha, am I the only guy on this thread with blank negrep for basically agreeing that cheating is bad and should be punished?

tombcfc · 3 Jun 2005, 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guran

Ofcourse there was an account attached to it. You thought F-Crew would allow people in their private channels that don't have planets.

well they did when bodders gained access at the start of the round, and no we didnt know

G.K Zhukov · 3 Jun 2005, 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guran

Ofcourse there was an account attached to it. You thought F-Crew would allow people in their private channels that don't have planets.

I think most people who has done intel work in pa on some level have managed this.

Kaisto · 3 Jun 2005, 14:34

F-crew has 90+ members. It is very difficult to monitor things when there are that many

TSP · 3 Jun 2005, 16:07

Heh. Figured that if you'd witnessed that debate about security you must have been cracking up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guran

Ofcourse there was an account attached to it. You thought F-Crew would allow people in their private channels that don't have planets.

Personally I don't think they did know about it. For instance, they didn't make much of a secret that they had a spy in F-Crew and even advertised it on occasion by PMing Wakey or sending messages through our bot to comment on current conversations. To me this isn't the kind of thing you do if you know that if found the bot would be attached to a multi account and potentially get one of your HC closed.

Oh, and I hope APA appreciated the little display we put on for them once the bot had been rooted out. Wakey's acting in particular was really worthy of Hollyoaks.

Bodders · 3 Jun 2005, 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSP

Oh, and I hope APA appreciated the little display we put on for them once the bot had been rooted out. Wakey's acting in particular was really worthy of Hollyoaks.

It was quite amusing shame your intelligence there was I believe 2/3 correct.

Nah nah nah he is not worthy of Hollyoaks maybe some pure cheese soap like 'open all hours'

Phil^ · 3 Jun 2005, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodders

As you can see we have taken this matter very seriously and acted swiftly to correct this error.

Personally i expect a load of negative remarks to be left here as a result of this, but i hope people will see that we were not aware of this and i hope that you do not think less of [APA] as an alliance as a result.

Personally i think you should be applauded for being so open and honest about it and acting quickly to get it resolved.
anyone who leaves negative remarks should look again at their own alliance and ask if they would have done the same.

Loz · 3 Jun 2005, 17:59

hat's off APA, still love ya

Gate, lol.

cypher · 3 Jun 2005, 18:30

nice doing apa

Neferti · 3 Jun 2005, 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by cypher

nice doing apa

My respect for the alliance has gone up a bit

.

Kaisto · 3 Jun 2005, 23:06

it is a relief that the community is so supporting of the actions taken. This is an unpleasant situation that we hope never will arise again.

tombcfc · 3 Jun 2005, 23:26

wow guys i didnt expect this much support from our decision, it was quite a shock when it first amerged he was probably a multi and when it was confirmed well you know the rest...

i just wana say thanks guys to everyone who has posted their comments and left feedback because we were unsure how peeps would respond

MysticYoshi · 4 Jun 2005, 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodders

we launched before them and landed before, we were messing around with F-Crew in this respect we actually expected to draw defence and not be able to land but we didnt draw out any defence F-Crew waves got the defence our fleets were ignored.
.

That is the best strategy ever!!! Send ships before our fleets so we will be defended against more. Because the 2nd and 3rd waves always get more defence! That is pure genius if I have ever seen it!!!!!11
I am so envious of such tacitcs, can I join APA? :/

tombcfc · 4 Jun 2005, 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticYoshi

That is the best strategy ever!!! Send ships before our fleets so we will be defended against more. Because the 2nd and 3rd waves always get more defence! That is pure genius if I have ever seen it!!!!!11
I am so envious of such tacitcs, can I join APA? :/

well considering we launched to play a joke on fcrew with fleet names revealing fcrews intentions, to find out the target has no defence on our wave and defence was concentrated on fcrew obviously it was pure genius! and hilarious at the time

notsure · 4 Jun 2005, 03:15

At the time it was quite amusing seeing jumpgate probes with "Fcrew incomin next tick" and the like...

In retrospect, and in light of recent revelations it loses some of its amusement value

A Mighty Fist · 4 Jun 2005, 03:25

While i respect you and your quick action in this matter... i am somewhat confused over the issue. You claimed not to know about the multi, fair enough. You act quickly and dislike cheating, great. However, it must be my british logic but i can't quite get my head round the whole concept of the information being gained as not cheating.

You had access to a bot that you shouldn't have had, mistake or not, yet rather than tell the people you used and exploited it to further your own allience. I'm sorry but that just bites and while you are being 'praised' for your quick acting and patting yourselves on the back for a job well done, you USED the information knowing full well you shouldn't have been getting it. Isn't that by very act... cheating?

Now no doubt people will claim that 'its spying and what is done'... yet by your own words and the words of others, its not. To me finding out information on others attacks and fleets comes not from a faulty bot but the mouths of my own gal mates who share their information.

I will pat you on the back for doing what you should have done and reported the multi however my other hand is reaching for the rock as you smile and look away.

At the end of the day it is a game after all, i'll be around for the next game as i have credit to be here and i plan to use it. *narrows eyes*

Avenged · 4 Jun 2005, 03:53

We are open to the fact that we were spying in your channel, we see no problem with this. Spying in your channel is not breaking the rules, merely streaching the moral guidelines we all live by, but when it comes to breaking the rules within the game, we are very strict, break the rules your out!

zen · 4 Jun 2005, 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Mighty Fist

..

You had access to a bot that you shouldn't have had, mistake or not, yet rather than tell the people you used and exploited it to further your own allience. I'm sorry but that just bites and while you are being 'praised' for your quick acting and patting yourselves on the back for a job well done, you USED the information knowing full well you shouldn't have been getting it. Isn't that by very act... cheating?

..

Would you had read the whole thread, you would see we we're under the impression that Jackal got to your channel the usual ways, not by using an account to back his alter ego.

notsure · 4 Jun 2005, 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Mighty Fist

Now no doubt people will claim that 'its spying and what is done'... yet by your own words and the words of others, its not. To me finding out information on others attacks and fleets comes not from a faulty bot but the mouths of my own gal mates who share their information.

Spying is not unique to APA, and we are neither denying or apologising for spying...indeed we have had at least one suspected spy within our own ranks.

What we are apologising for however is the way in which this particular spybot gained access to the FCrew channel - that is through the use of a second planet joining f-crew. As has previously been stated, we assumed that the bot had gained access to the channel the same way that Bodders had been able to spend 200 odd ticks in said channel (using his standard nick), that someone had mistakenly given access to a non f-crew member.

While many may believe that the use of spies is wrong...spies have been, are, and will remain a part of the tatical weaponry used by many alliances to try to obtain information that can be used for their benifit.

Bodders · 4 Jun 2005, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guran

Ofcourse there was an account attached to it. You thought F-Crew would allow people in their private channels that don't have planets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by #FPC

<BB|AFK> darkage, hylands and bodders
<BB|AFK> GRAND FINALE ATTACKS
<prod|pm>

<Eddie||afk> What did bodders do?
<Gingie> darkage, hylands and bodders<== last attack
<Iron|Study> whose bodders?
<prod|pm> nice targ for tomorrow
< BB|AFK> he is bodders
<TSP> Bodders is cool though.
<Gingie> guide attacks on me and kegs
<Eddie||afk> What did bodders do?<=== yes but he IS bodders
<Yoda> lol
<BB|AFK> do we need a reason?
<hells> yeh who is bodders lol
<TSP> APA BC.
<Gingie> he was a spy he had een in our priv channel for a 1/3 of the round before we noticed he wasn't a member

Theres a nice transcript that should explain how i got in there.

Not sure why Iron did not know who I was as we are in the same galaxy

MysticYoshi · 4 Jun 2005, 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by notsure

At the time it was quite amusing seeing jumpgate probes with "Fcrew incomin next tick" and the like...

In retrospect, and in light of recent revelations it loses some of its amusement value

Fair enough if it was a joke ;)

furball · 4 Jun 2005, 18:04

Spying is part of the game, and very useful if you know how to do it properly. Think your alliance doesn't have a spy? You're wrong. You just haven't caught him (or her).

Certainly VGN this round had a spy or two (that we missed while recruiting, later spotted, booted and roided). I do not presume that that was all of them, and I expect other alliances will attempt to re-infiltrate us next round. It'll be fun.

wakey · 4 Jun 2005, 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodders

Theres a nice transcript that should explain how i got in there.

Not sure why Iron did not know who I was as we are in the same galaxy

tbh if thats your justification for not questioning Jackal then your all either extreamly naive or stupid. You got lucky once thanks to an HC bypassing the normal procedure but no-ones going to be caught out by the same thing twice. Especially when you know full well that the HC responsable for that oversight had left before Jackals spy and the fact it was fairly common knowledge that our bot had been upgraded to prevent such incedents.

Also to claim you hyjacked our attacks as a joke is laughable. After all it wasnt just once it happened. You do not waste fleets which are vital for attacks and defence on multiple occasions as a joke, especially when it involves the GC whom should be the ones setting a good example which wasting a fleet isnt a good example

You do also have to be a bit sceptical over the the truth over the claim that no-one else knew what was going on. Its good that you did take action but at the same time this whole situation seems highly contrived. Even a professional spin doctor would struggle to put such a positive spin on things

You do have to wonder how much was actually know about what was going on and how much of them being so 'forthcoming' is actually to do with whom they are are dealing with, after all they know full well id make a real issue of it on the forums.

Ofc I could just grown sceptical BUT at the same time I might not be

Bodders · 4 Jun 2005, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakey

tbh if thats your justification for not questioning Jackal then your all either extreamly naive or stupid. You got lucky once thanks to an HC bypassing the normal procedure but no-ones going to be caught out by the same thing twice. Especially when you know full well that the HC responsable for that oversight had left before Jackals spy and the fact it was fairly common knowledge that our bot had been upgraded to prevent such incedents.

That had nothign to do with Jackal in that post just to prove how i got in to #FPC and to prove that it can happen. We did not know what lengths Jackal had gone to, to get access and if we had known he would have been out there and then.

If it is naieve of us to trust our members not to mention HC to not break the rules then so be it.

TBH i have no idea that your bot had been upgraded, but it does have some nice features.

Also i have no idea which HC let me in.