Planetarion Forums

Kloopy · 15 Jun 2005, 22:52

As you probably well know. This CTF game has a scoring algorithm of 1 point per flag owned, unless the flag is your own gal's in which case it's worth 5 points.

Now, some people don't think this is fair, because planets can cap the flags and then suicide their own fleets to get low value and thus be immune from many attacks (because of the 20% bash limit). Now, some planets could stay large within a gal and those planets would get free credits.

Some people wish to avoid the tactic outlined above, so have suggested removing the bash limit on flag carriers. I disagree with this because it just makes capping flags easier and removes what I believe is a valid tactic from the game.

In my opinion, changing who gets the winning credits would be enough. That is to say the members in the top ranked CTF galaxy who own the most flags gets the free credits (assuming a limited number are assigned to that gal)

However, I'm part of PATeam and thus my views and opinions are generally wrong. So I'd like those who have taken part in this debut of CTF to post your opinions and suggestions on changing the scoring system or how rewards are given to the winning galaxy.

RamzeS · 15 Jun 2005, 23:02

i wouldn't change a thing about this i think it has been an pretty fair ctf round and imo was an very fun one for most.

But however i think it's an good idea to schuffle after an day of ctf couse lots of players go inactive when the round ends and you just got to be lucky that part of your gal plays this part of the game by implementing a shuffle this could be fixed i guess

Freedom · 15 Jun 2005, 23:28

Sounds good, shuffle like at tick 72 was it for the main round to see who was active and distribute fairly

antheon · 15 Jun 2005, 23:40

No shuffle. . .the galaxies during regular round have built a good working relationships, why mess it up with a shuffle. If galaxies have any inactives it is not hard to exile them. . .that is what our galaxy did and then some better players exiled into our galaxy.

As far as the who gets the credits, I wonder why anyone in the galaxy who defended a flag holder or held a flag couldn't get a credit? It takes both flag holders and defenders to win.

Hmm. . .maybe Jolt don't wanna give that many away, huh? Maybe the winning galaxy could have a vote of who deserves the credits. I mean only the galaxy really knows who was participated and really deserves the credits.

bwtmc · 15 Jun 2005, 23:56

It was fine, Xan was ridiculously easy as expected, i probably won't play it ever again simply because of the embarrassing player base left a week after the round - but as a "havoc" game, it was well designed.

Virall · 16 Jun 2005, 00:10

I disliked it to be honest, it dragged, was boring and painful to watch in gal action on its own.

It does provide fun for the people that were surpressed during the real round though, and they seemed to enjoy it; it was appreciated for some of the more inexperienced pa players to achieve goals and command the universe etc.

However, having one roid somewhere that you have to obtain and keep is far from 'Capture The Flag' and its traditional gaming concepts; CTF was always hold it for as long as possible whilst being timed, and then people corner you,muller you and grab it for themselves. Far too predictable, not enough action and the round was too long. I suggest a weekend or less, if possible.

A good idea, but its promise was both short lived and tiresome. The activity will tell you the same; and no, it wasn't surprisingly active.

This is NOT a viscous post, it's my honest opinion.

Shadow Lord · 16 Jun 2005, 00:15

I agree with antheon.

you spend all round building up ingal teamwork, and it would SUCK big time if you now have to depend on people you don't know. Especially in CTF where alliances are of no help.

Headfuk · 16 Jun 2005, 00:21

My honest opinion... I wouldnt call it havoc or anything like havoc.... What has happened to the old 1billion res n crap loads of roids... That was real havoc, getting 1mil fi incs that would just own you completely... Miss those days

Shall definately not be playing a TFC style havoc again, was rather boring to the point that i actually decided to turn up to work instead of play pa

CrazySpoon · 16 Jun 2005, 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Virall

I disliked it to be honest, it dragged, was boring and painful to watch in gal action on its own.

....

I fully agree

freestyler · 16 Jun 2005, 00:29

well next time i would save up my res and attack last moment with a mighty fleet thus capping roids and winning if u do it as a gal. To avoid this i think PA team should add a timer (score per tick u hold a flag). Dunno if its a good idea just accured to me.

Freestyler SiNND? nee Zin iN ND!

Dorraj · 16 Jun 2005, 00:34

I think it was a load of fun. And i think that a shuffle would destroy it, my gal and i realy grew as a team and worked together when we lost our flag, it was great, and we all worked together to protec the flags that we had. Yes, thre were arguments, but doesnt all good families have arguments?

Prehaps if there was anther flag on top of all the other flags that was like the main flag to have, and the longer you have it, the more points you get. Then, when the flag gets taken off you, you dont lose those points that you gained from it, they stay there but you stop gaining more..... if you get what i mean, like real capture the flag in first person shooters, games like quake 3 arena, etc. That would be cool

Appocomaster · 16 Jun 2005, 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headfuk

My honest opinion... I wouldnt call it havoc or anything like havoc.... What has happened to the old 1billion res n crap loads of roids... That was real havoc, getting 1mil fi incs that would just own you completely... Miss those days

Shall definately not be playing a TFC style havoc again, was rather boring to the point that i actually decided to turn up to work instead of play pa

We were almost beta testing the CTF in havoc to see how it'd work, and what the opinions of people were. I doubt there'll be any more CTF havocs, but there probably will be some speedgames (such as this weekend) with it, depending how popular it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fingers

I think it was a load of fun. And i think that a shuffle would destroy it, my gal and i realy grew as a team and worked together when we lost our flag, it was great, and we all worked together to protec the flags that we had. Yes, thre were arguments, but doesnt all good families have arguments?

Prehaps if there was anther flag on top of all the other flags that was like the main flag to have, and the longer you have it, the more points you get. Then, when the flag gets taken off you, you dont lose those points that you gained from it, they stay there but you stop gaining more..... if you get what i mean, like real capture the flag in first person shooters, games like quake 3 arena, etc. That would be cool

Obviously this would be the 1:1 flag.

fedz · 16 Jun 2005, 00:37

i think it was very sh*tty as the inactive planets, which i'm sure damn near outnumbered the active planets, ruined the game

Cervantes · 16 Jun 2005, 00:39

I think it dragged to much, the main hovoc should have been longer and the CTF shorter, im not a big fan of CTF but it passed time. Also if you are in an inactive gal and you self exile and land in another inactive gal where there already is a G.C there is no way to exile yourself again so you are stuck to get raped by everyone. Overall i dont think i will play CTF again doesnt really apeal to me.

Kal · 16 Jun 2005, 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Virall

However, having one roid somewhere that you have to obtain and keep is far from 'Capture The Flag' and its traditional gaming concepts; CTF was always hold it for as long as possible whilst being timed, and then people corner you,muller you and grab it for themselves.

i'd like a socring system that reflects the challenege of holding a flag for extended periods of time

Phil^ · 16 Jun 2005, 00:54

x bonus points every 10 ticks a flag is held, per flag? Sorta like xp for flag roids

Stifler · 16 Jun 2005, 00:58

People seem to have missed the point of Kloopys question, by assuming that is a new form of havoc rather than havoc period was just used to test a new gamestyle. The fact that the weekend speedgame will be a CTF style game backs uo my assumption.

As such agruments like these below are not really relevant:

Quote:

Originally Posted by antheon

No shuffle. . .the galaxies during regular round have built a good working relationships, why mess it up with a shuffle. If galaxies have any inactives it is not hard to exile them. . .that is what our galaxy did and then some better players exiled into our galaxy.

In future CTF games, I assume it would be a new type of speedgame (like the no defence we have), so this agrument of dont shuffle as galaxies were built up during the regular round isnt really needed since it will be "clean" game start.

As such, I feel shuffles should happen before every new round endurance or speed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Virall

It does provide fun for the people that were surpressed during the real round though, and they seemed to enjoy it; it was appreciated for some of the more inexperienced pa players to achieve goals and command the universe etc.

CTF isnt a replacement havoc, the havoc period was just used to test this new game style. Therefore it isnt just for "surpressed in main round" or inexperiance players.

--

About the scoring/ ranking, It was abit unfair with the flah holders suiciding to keep flags safe and then other people just roiding non-flag holders to grow as big as possible so they would win the credits. A betetr system would be to either give credits to the biggest people who have flags or give them to the galaxy members with teh most of flags and then rank them by score if they have the same number of flags

Virall · 16 Jun 2005, 01:02

I don't remember saying it was a replacement havoc.

I was stating that the main player base did fall into the previously mentioned catagory (because it did).

And im afraid your post fails to detract from the original points i was making.

I fail to see how you can comment on relevance and then display none. Please read more carefully in future.

Stifler · 16 Jun 2005, 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by fedz

i think it was very sh*tty as the inactive planets, which i'm sure damn near outnumbered the active planets, ruined the game

thats because it was in the havoc period so a lot of people dont play due to catching up on sleep or just cba to play havoc

Phil^ · 16 Jun 2005, 01:06

alternate solution : the value of the galaxies own flag varies with the value of the galaxy, so the bigger the galaxy is, the more its flag is worth

Virall · 16 Jun 2005, 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stifler

thats because it was in the havoc period so a lot of people dont play due to catching up on sleep or just cba to play havoc

Yes, activity will drop, but many of the inactive planets (certainly a large proportion that I knew), were inactive because they would rather sleep or declare that they cba due to the game itself. This thread is about opinions of the game and activity levels are affected by the game's quality.

Kal · 16 Jun 2005, 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil^

alternate solution : the value of the galaxies own flag varies with the value of the galaxy, so the bigger the galaxy is, the more its flag is worth

oh, I like that one!

Judge · 16 Jun 2005, 01:38

The scoring system was a bit odd to say the least,

perhaps it should be the opposite, where a galaxies own flag is worth 1point and other galaxies flags worth 5, (I would suggest 2) that way there is more value in attacking.

We (my gal) had great fun and enjoyed it immensely despite being hammered a few times, but we gave as good as we got.

Maybe a shorter round for CTF would have been better, ie just the weekend period, as once Monday came, we all went back to work/college and got hammerd?

Flying_So-Low · 16 Jun 2005, 01:50

What I noticed about this CTF havoc is that if you didn't have your gal flag you weren't gonna win. I mean once I stole the 1:10 flag, i have 1mil+ incs automatically. This is an example of how important they are. Maybe by having more than just 1 flag per gal. Introducing 2 flags per gal? equal value? One is worth more than the other? Thier could also be just random flags that don't belong to any gal? Those flags would be equal in points irrelevant to who has it.
OK, so ya, I'm making this confusing, but this would remove the black & white ways of NEEDing to have your gal flag to win...

Cervantes · 16 Jun 2005, 02:10

well as the speedy has been changed to CTF i wont be playing it no offence to the pa team they are trying new things but its just not for me, ive played since the biggining things are starting to wonder away from the original point of planetarion. But im sure many people like the idea of CTF i guess i like the old Pa :s

coffee- · 16 Jun 2005, 03:05

I also am not a big fan of CTF.

god2 · 16 Jun 2005, 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil^

alternate solution : the value of the galaxies own flag varies with the value of the galaxy, so the bigger the galaxy is, the more its flag is worth

brilliant idea phil...

overall i didnt like the ctf, but if it were changed a bit...
maybe insted of having golden roids 1:1 could start with flag roids.
the way you cap the roid is ABSOLUTLY WRONG though, it's too chance based. i personally went from almost 8k roids with 2 flags down to less than 100 roids with one flag, that should not happen, also if a gal is going to have thier own flag roid, as soon as the person holding it falls below the gal average value, it should automaticly pass to the highest value player in the gal or something where everyone has an equal opportunity to take it.. maybe have the person with the flag roid attackable no matter thier value.
something has to be done about those 2 things for it to be feesible in a round
i do think this would make a nice addition to a round if worked correctly

Heru · 16 Jun 2005, 05:05

I agree with most of what god2 said. Overall, I think CTF was great fun, but I can see how it would draw a lot of disinterest from those in crap gals. The idea of throwing extra value on flags from big gals is a good idea, and may counteract this, as it encourages people to stay involved. However, in CTF, the winners should NOT be the biggest planets in the winning gal. They should be the planets with the most flags. It is Capture The Flag after all.

god2 · 16 Jun 2005, 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil^

x bonus points every 10 ticks a flag is held, per flag? Sorta like xp for flag roids

was actually the idea i liked more, so that ctf isnt the whole point, but it gives added bonuses to the person who holds it...

Makhil · 16 Jun 2005, 07:25

I had a lot of fun, and i think it will be even better once the small issues are fixed :
- too big luck factor in capturing flags
- no reward for playing and capturing/holding flags before the last day/ticks

on a side note i wish the CTF game could really be a battle gal vs gal. Why some alliances had to forbid their members to attack some big gals (looking at Angels and Exy here). They should learn the meaning of havoc and fun.

ChubbyChecker · 16 Jun 2005, 07:37

I only read a couple of posts in this thread so it might have been mentioned already: The whole point of CTF is to capture the special roids. Allowing a bash limit for planets with flags is ridiculous because it defeats the whole purpose of CTF. If it's too hard to remove the bash limit just from planets with flags then remove it from all planets.

And yes, galaxies should be reward points for holding flags for extended periods of time, eg 1 point per 10 ticks held per flag.

ReligFree · 16 Jun 2005, 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headfuk

My honest opinion... I wouldnt call it havoc or anything like havoc.... What has happened to the old 1billion res n crap loads of roids... That was real havoc, getting 1mil fi incs that would just own you completely... Miss those days

Shall definately not be playing a TFC style havoc again, was rather boring to the point that i actually decided to turn up to work instead of play pa

I managed to get 1.3mil fi/co/fr/de/cr/bs incs on last day as i had sum gheys flag which i couldnt evac from as i was playing footy

I quite enjoyed it tbh, maybe it was a bit long however. Think it evens out with the races quite well as you get the big ziks fighting for the flags, and then the smaller planets going for the smaller flags. Good idea, looking forward to the speeder

Jinstarro · 16 Jun 2005, 10:47

I also prefer the good ol' havoc. I think people are tired after a long round, and isn't up for a havoc with tactics and strategies. We just want to buy loads of units and send them where we want.

LocknLoad · 16 Jun 2005, 11:19

I thought the CTF idea was grand. It actually raised the activity of our gal that was not all so active during main round. My only gripe was I landed on this one dude 4 times and he had 2 flags and not once did I capture one. The odds were surely against me there.

And I agree if there were more flags available to capture it would have been a bit more havoc like "More action = More fun"

16 Jun 2005, 11:23

I enjoyed the CTF, I though the timescale was fine, the only things I would perhaps look at would be...

Put a timer on capture so the longer you have it the more you score. and perhaps 1 flag per planet rather than per Gal. With the gal commander having the 5 pointer. Towards the end a lot of the roids had been capped by a few gals, I managed to get one which I kept for about 3 hours. As soon as I got it there was wave after wave of incomming and it finally went. If there were a few more flag roids about and timers invovled I think it could make it even better.

I could just be talking complete crap though :-)

Flasheart

MegaNova · 16 Jun 2005, 16:07

Why not make the flag roidable from the entire gal instead of one planet.

Virall · 16 Jun 2005, 17:05

If EVERY planet had a flag, and the higher the value of the planet determines the value of the flag. Whilst this is going on, the accumulative time that you hold on to your flag can also affect either the planet's score or the value of the flag.

The advantages of every planet having a flag would be obvious; lots of action, alliances and team ups, personal vendettas and the opportunity to own a lot of people.

It would literally be chaos... or HAVOC. (And i would have to play!)

MAdnRisKy · 16 Jun 2005, 17:49

linking CTF score to value overly favours zik though :/

Virall · 16 Jun 2005, 17:56

not when all races have stealers.

Paddy · 16 Jun 2005, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAdnRisKy

linking CTF score to value overly favours zik though :/

it would actually give ziks a disadvantage, as their flags would be worth more to other people, meaning more people tried to get their roid.

In my opinion the main problem with linking score to the value is that this is encouraging people to suicide their fleet, especially right at the end of the round. Simply suiciding at the end would mean that the planet with your roid would be disadvantaged. I think a system where the ratio of your (gal) value to the planet (gal) you steal the roid from, at the time of capture, would work better as to how valuable the flag is.

I just realised that if it is implemented that points will depend on how long you keep a roid for then most of what I said doesn't matter, but if that turns out to be hard to do or unfair in any way then what I said is relevant

Yurgeta · 16 Jun 2005, 18:24

i think that a special flag should be able to captuers no matter if the vaule u to low..

u cant do any damage to the person but u still can try to get the flag.. 25% change remember.. so aslong as no roids or nething are taken from low vaule players than takeing there flag will still be fine.. haveing a low vaule and flag is just unfair to th ppl fighting to win..