User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Planetarion Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 12:06   #1
The_Fish
ND
 
The_Fish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Amazingstoke
Posts: 2,235
The_Fish is a name known to allThe_Fish is a name known to allThe_Fish is a name known to allThe_Fish is a name known to allThe_Fish is a name known to allThe_Fish is a name known to all
Some facts.

Despite this obviously being AD material, JBG has deleted it twice from there.

Jester creates the most XP friendly stats ever.
Jester creates an alliance with a huge percentage of XP whores.
Said alliance hides members and therefore makes its strength look weaker.
Said alliance adds members and looks set to win the round.

These facts get posted twice, and deleted twice by an Ascendancy moderator.

I'm not here complaining about XP, complaining about an alliance full of XP whores, its the huge coincidences people are expected to believe.

Jester didnt make the stats with the intention of making them value friendly. he knew they were xp friendly, hence he created an alliance of xp whores. He saw they were xp friendly, yet did nothing to change it. This greatly benefits his alliance (mine too).

Hiding the 8 large members is what really pisses people off. Very sneaky of you.

Whilst this doesn't personally affect me, being in a 14 man alliance of XP whores, I think its disgraceful what Jester has done, and he certainly should never be allowed near the stats again. For his crimes against PA, I would personally ban him.
__________________
[ND]
The_Fish is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 12:12   #2
DunkelGraf
Drunken Boozer
 
DunkelGraf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 298
DunkelGraf is a splendid one to beholdDunkelGraf is a splendid one to beholdDunkelGraf is a splendid one to beholdDunkelGraf is a splendid one to beholdDunkelGraf is a splendid one to beholdDunkelGraf is a splendid one to beholdDunkelGraf is a splendid one to beholdDunkelGraf is a splendid one to behold
Re: Some facts.

Big, bad, secret masterplan......

Think i must have misunderstood him and his stats for i am one of the worst xp-whores ever having 2 mio+ value....
__________________
Geilheit ist KEINE Schande !!!!

! [ToT]-KC !

Äscendäncy, we got Penis inside!
DunkelGraf is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 12:13   #3
ComradeRob
wasted
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Under the floorboards
Posts: 1,240
ComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: Some facts.

It's worse than you think. I secretly deleted all the posts suggesting a fix of the XP system from the Suggestions board before the round!!123
__________________
“They were totally confused,” said the birdman, whose flying suit gives him a passing resemblance to Buzz Lightyear in Toy Story. “The authorities said that I was an unregistered aircraft and to fly, you need a licence. I told them, ‘No. To fly, you need wings’.”
ComradeRob is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 12:13   #4
Phil^
Insomniac
 
Phil^'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
Phil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Some facts.

i would rather ban people who post poor quality propeganda threads such as you have been this round.
Jester at least has talent when it comes to stats, You cant hide things in stats for no-one to see so that you can take advantage of.
The fact no-one else spotted it is not jesters fault, even if he had done it intentionally; something i doubt personally.

As you said you are in an alliance of xp whores, so you are hardly in a position to complain about the system , the stats, jester - or the mods
Perhaps you havent realised the reason your post was deleted is because its trolling. pure and simple

Im not happy about how the round turned out either, or the means to achieve it but you dont see me blaming others arbitrarily
__________________
Phil^
Phil^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 12:14   #5
Willzzz
Legion Idle Master
 
Willzzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 425
Willzzz has much to be proud ofWillzzz has much to be proud ofWillzzz has much to be proud ofWillzzz has much to be proud ofWillzzz has much to be proud ofWillzzz has much to be proud ofWillzzz has much to be proud ofWillzzz has much to be proud ofWillzzz has much to be proud ofWillzzz has much to be proud of
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
i would rather ban people who post poor quality propeganda threads such as you have been this round.
Jester at least has talent when it comes to stats, You cant hide things in stats for no-one to see so that you can take advantage of.
The fact no-one else spotted it is not jesters fault, even if he had done it intentionally; something i doubt personally.

As you said you are in an alliance of xp whores, so you are hardly in a position to complain about the system , the stats, jester - or the mods

Perhaps you havent realised the reason your post was deleted is because its trolling. pure and simple
Bassicaly says it all ^^
__________________

Played: Round 1-13. PA Team: Round 13-17. The Return: Round 18-19. PA Team: Round 20. Return.. Again: Round 21-37 Retired: Round 38 Returned: Round 39-45 Retired: Round 45 Returned: Round: 56

p3nguin Founder
Willzzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 12:19   #6
Banned
Banned
 
Banned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: ******
Posts: 2,326
Banned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: Some facts.

Would it shock people if I said wasn't happy with how the stats ended up turning out? Because I'm not. But I think part of the badness of balance comes from underestimating the impact of the new alliance limit combined with the amount of playing who chose purely attacking strategies.

In my opinion you, as part of DLR, have to take a share of the blame for the round turning out like it did.
Banned is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 12:21   #7
lokken
BlueTuba
 
lokken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,339
lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Some facts.

Just some issues I want to address here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
i would rather ban people who post poor quality propeganda threads such as you have been this round.
Everyone has the right to post bad propaganda, within the rules.

Quote:
As you said you are in an alliance of xp whores, so you are hardly in a position to complain about the system , the stats, jester - or the mods
Actually everyone should complain, via the appropriate channels. It's simple transparency. I've seen myself held up to public scrutiny on many an occasion and see it as part and parcel of the job. The only time I get pissed off is when people repeat the same old flannel or don't complain appropriately..

Quote:
Perhaps you havent realised the reason your post was deleted is because its trolling. pure and simple
A bad post is not a troll by definition. A bad post is there to be held up to ridicule.
__________________
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
lokken is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 12:46   #8
Ace
PA Team
 
Ace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 677
Ace is a jewel in the roughAce is a jewel in the roughAce is a jewel in the roughAce is a jewel in the rough
Re: Some facts.

In no way am i happy with the stats and XP stuff as I pointed out to kloopy and all that where at the PA Amsterdam meet.

But whining about what Ascendancy did or does this round is false.

ALL could have checked the stats before round and ALL could see what could happen.
I just have to say, smart move Ascendancy, well played.

Now PA team plz don't do this to us again
I know it's a free round but the stats and XP stuff kill the old style alliance idea's and i don't think this is the way PA should go.
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-Have a nice Day-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
#multihunters
----------------------------
Former HC - Conspiracy Theory -
----------------------------
- Proud to have served as -
- High Commander and CEO -
[]LCH[] ...lets change history
----------------------------
Ace is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 12:46   #9
gzambo
Fightin-irish for life
 
gzambo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
gzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant future
Re: Some facts.

beaten at your own game fish

that really sucks
__________________
Ascendancy, now with added Irish

"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it."
-Rommel
gzambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 12:47   #10
The_Fish
ND
 
The_Fish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Amazingstoke
Posts: 2,235
The_Fish is a name known to allThe_Fish is a name known to allThe_Fish is a name known to allThe_Fish is a name known to allThe_Fish is a name known to allThe_Fish is a name known to all
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
beaten at your own game fish

that really sucks
how? Really, how?
__________________
[ND]
The_Fish is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 12:51   #11
Nadar
I see you!
 
Nadar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In any girl
Posts: 2,825
Nadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
beaten at your own game fish

that really sucks
nah, DLR was around 15 members all round and I doubt they ever thought about winning anything else than highest average score.
__________________
www.foxystoat.com
Nadar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 13:16   #12
Phil^
Insomniac
 
Phil^'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
Phil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Actually everyone should complain, via the appropriate channels. It's simple transparency. I've seen myself held up to public scrutiny on many an occasion and see it as part and parcel of the job. The only time I get pissed off is when people repeat the same old flannel or don't complain appropriately..
I meant as part of 'taking the moral high ground' on the issue
Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
A bad post is not a troll by definition. A bad post is there to be held up to ridicule.
if it was merely a bad post it would not have been erased, ergo it was trolling/flaming and required deletion
__________________
Phil^

Last edited by Phil^; 11 Mar 2006 at 13:30.
Phil^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 13:26   #13
Cannon_Fodder
Registered User
 
Cannon_Fodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,174
Cannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Some facts.

OMG ITS A CONSPIRACY

I'm just waiting for a mod to delete this thread for shits and giggles.
__________________
If one person is in delusion, they're called insane.
If many people are in delusion, it's called a religion.
Cannon_Fodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 14:27   #14
wakey
Hamster
 
wakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Crewe, England
Posts: 3,606
wakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
i would rather ban people who post poor quality propeganda threads such as you have been this round.
Jester at least has talent when it comes to stats, You cant hide things in stats for no-one to see so that you can take advantage of.
The fact no-one else spotted it is not jesters fault, even if he had done it intentionally; something i doubt personally.

As you said you are in an alliance of xp whores, so you are hardly in a position to complain about the system , the stats, jester - or the mods
Perhaps you havent realised the reason your post was deleted is because its trolling. pure and simple

Im not happy about how the round turned out either, or the means to achieve it but you dont see me blaming others arbitrarily
He does have a right to complain, it doesnt matter if he is in a XP Whore allliance or not. The stats are shit and have ruined this round and potentially every round following becuase by allowing the likes of Acendancy and its members to pull this off in such an easy manner is going to drive alot of members away and has potentially put one of the final nails into the coffin of XP unless the stats are absolutly perfect which if that happens will be the final nail in the games coffin.

While I couldnt do any better, jesters job wasnt to create stats that only favoured the XP style of play or only Value but to create something as close to allowing both styles to be successful and it would seem he didnt even try this. Plus also lets be honest, it was the same as Sids stats a few rounds back, yes they were public BUT those designing the stats do have an advantage as they have a much better insight into the stats well before the round starts where as everyone else has to adjust quickly and its why Ive always believed stats should be done by a none playing PAteam member (even if your attempts werent great Phil atleast they were fair on all players)
__________________
Wakey
PD and Suggestions Moderator
Co-founder of [F-Crew]
The Farnborough Crew
Cos anything else is just an alliance
Join our public channel at #f-crew
wakey is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 14:28   #15
Kargool
Up The Hatters!
 
Kargool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
Kargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Ive always believed stats should be done by a none playing PAteam member (even if your attempts werent great Phil atleast they were fair on all players)
I second that. Atleast then accusations like this will never occur again.
__________________
Planetarion veteran
Kargool is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 14:50   #16
Veedeejem!
Hibernating
 
Veedeejem!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Team Kesha
Posts: 1,621
Veedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Some facts.

All i know is that after this round i'll stop playing permanently.
This game used to be about war, politics, big battles,...
Now it just matters who can attack best with a fleet as small as possible. It doesn't matter if you get inc, caus you're to small to get attacked by most people and the people that can actually attack you a) will gain shit from attacking you b) will actually do you a favour to lower your value so you can grab more xp.

Shame really, i liked the old game of planetarion, not this new game i call xp-arion
__________________
[InSomnia]
Official designated driver

[ToF] - [eXilition] - [Rock] - [Denial] - [DLR] - [eVolution] - [ODDR] - [HR] - [Ultores] - [Apprime] - [Ironborn]
Veedeejem! is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 14:50   #17
Banned
Banned
 
Banned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: ******
Posts: 2,326
Banned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Ive always believed stats should be done by a none playing PAteam member (even if your attempts werent great Phil atleast they were fair on all players)
While I didn't agree with this prior to this round, I agree now. Mostly because I think whoever makes stats should be spared the whining of idiots such as yourself.
Banned is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 15:04   #18
Tomkat
:alpha:
 
Tomkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Some facts.

This thread title had a fullstop on it so I knew that it must have been a serious post.

The internet is a serious business guys!

But you know what's MORE serious?

That dirty rotten cheat Jester HIDING those stats from us!
Wait a second - I've got the Serious Internet Police on the phone right now.
What?
No, they aren't public! You're wrong!
No I won't open the link!
Oh wait... yeah... there they are... public stats for us all to see.
__________________
"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
Tomkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 15:06   #19
jerome
.
 
jerome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,382
jerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
how? Really, how?
i've always found it funny that we've had almost as much members higher than the highest dlr than the total member count of dlr

also, dear castrated christ do you have any idea how pathetic this thread sounds? you people are so ****ing shit, it was always so ****ing point blank obvious terran were strong. hell, dlr went all terr but tk, who left early rnd. heh. which is quite funny considering only around half of ascendancy are terran ... "HEH"
jerome is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 15:26   #20
Desse
Pr0nstar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 495
Desse has much to be proud ofDesse has much to be proud ofDesse has much to be proud ofDesse has much to be proud ofDesse has much to be proud ofDesse has much to be proud ofDesse has much to be proud ofDesse has much to be proud of
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish

I think its disgraceful what Jester has done, and he certainly should never be allowed near the stats again. For his crimes against PA, I would personally ban him.
Stop posting while being drunk
__________________
PROUD Chief Pimp of the only pr0nstars

Ascendancy - While you were trying, we were sleeping

(@Karmulian) i deffo got roided looking at my planets
Desse is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 16:15   #21
ComradeRob
wasted
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Under the floorboards
Posts: 1,240
ComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
I second that. Atleast then accusations like this will never occur again.
Because we all know accusations from internet retards are a good reason for making a decision!

I apologise for flaming, but there's really no other response worth making.
__________________
“They were totally confused,” said the birdman, whose flying suit gives him a passing resemblance to Buzz Lightyear in Toy Story. “The authorities said that I was an unregistered aircraft and to fly, you need a licence. I told them, ‘No. To fly, you need wings’.”
ComradeRob is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 16:30   #22
The Real Arfy
Registered User
 
The Real Arfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,081
The Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
All i know is that after this round i'll stop playing permanently.
This game used to be about war, politics, big battles,...
Now it just matters who can attack best with a fleet as small as possible. It doesn't matter if you get inc, caus you're to small to get attacked by most people and the people that can actually attack you a) will gain shit from attacking you b) will actually do you a favour to lower your value so you can grab more xp.

Shame really, i liked the old game of planetarion, not this new game i call xp-arion
Seriously, what the cock is wrong with you? This goes to everyone else who has threatened to quit next round:

PA team have noted that the stats weren't great and that the XP formula is being changed. Just because 50% of the people playing decided that this round was a **** up, doesn't mean next round will be as well. Or the round after that. Or the round after that. Its reasons like this that we have resets and a suggestions forum - to try out new things, and then implement or change them the following round.

I'm getting mighty pissed off at people saying what a disaster this game has become just because they chose a tactic that hasn't (yet) paid off.

To summarise, it is being fixed.

Note: I dislike XP whoring. I want 1up to win this round. I am not XP whoring this round and I never have.

EDIT: Why quit after the round? If the game's gone to pot and you don't enjoy it, why play anymore?
__________________
Dynamic Salvage!

[16:10:34] <[lfc]stif|afk> "dont be the worst in your alliance, join CT. We have Arfy!"
The Real Arfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 16:42   #23
I am Idler
This is bat country
 
I am Idler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,693
I am Idler is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himI am Idler is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himI am Idler is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himI am Idler is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himI am Idler is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himI am Idler is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himI am Idler is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himI am Idler is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himI am Idler is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himI am Idler is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himI am Idler is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Despite this obviously being AD material, JBG has deleted it twice from there.

Jester creates the most XP friendly stats ever.
Jester creates an alliance with a huge percentage of XP whores.
Said alliance hides members and therefore makes its strength look weaker.
Said alliance adds members and looks set to win the round.

These facts get posted twice, and deleted twice by an Ascendancy moderator.

I'm not here complaining about XP, complaining about an alliance full of XP whores, its the huge coincidences people are expected to believe.

Jester didnt make the stats with the intention of making them value friendly. he knew they were xp friendly, hence he created an alliance of xp whores. He saw they were xp friendly, yet did nothing to change it. This greatly benefits his alliance (mine too).

Hiding the 8 large members is what really pisses people off. Very sneaky of you.

Whilst this doesn't personally affect me, being in a 14 man alliance of XP whores, I think its disgraceful what Jester has done, and he certainly should never be allowed near the stats again. For his crimes against PA, I would personally ban him.

I think its rather funny that you didnt point this out earlier tbfh.

Didnt you learn maths at school my good chum ?
__________________
Burárum!
I am Idler is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 16:56   #24
Tomkat
:alpha:
 
Tomkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real Arfy
Seriously, what the cock is wrong with you? This goes to everyone else who has threatened to quit next round:
I'm getting mighty pissed off at people saying what a disaster this game has become just because they chose a tactic that hasn't (yet) paid off.
Yea but then you have to ask yourself:

"If they do quit after throwing a tantrum, will they really be missed?"

The (hopefully) new influx of players who like games where they don't need to be on 24/7 and build up a huge network of contacts to keep themselves in the top ranks should replace them, and hopefully they'll whine less.
__________________
"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
Tomkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 17:21   #25
WeaponX
Legends live forever
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 41
WeaponX is a splendid one to beholdWeaponX is a splendid one to beholdWeaponX is a splendid one to beholdWeaponX is a splendid one to beholdWeaponX is a splendid one to beholdWeaponX is a splendid one to beholdWeaponX is a splendid one to behold
Re: Some facts.

You didn´t know they had top members not in tag? well your intel sux, so why complain on board about it?

All could read the stats, should we complain about DLR aswell?

i don´t like the stats and the formula either, playing for value and roids myself...still this thread is dumb
__________________
Never forget - it is a game, still it is a lot of fun
Proud member of r16 10:4, great gal
WeaponX is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 17:24   #26
Squidly
Avenger of Calamari
 
Squidly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 939
Squidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Yea but then you have to ask yourself:

"If they do quit after throwing a tantrum, will they really be missed?"

The (hopefully) new influx of players who like games where they don't need to be on 24/7 and build up a huge network of contacts to keep themselves in the top ranks should replace them, and hopefully they'll whine less.
Heh... but does having a tiny fleet, attacking only marginally larger planets and winning make for a decent game?

In an RPG, this is the equivelant of a level 2 player being the top ranked because he managed to consistently exploit a flaw in a number of level 5-7 characters... Despite the fact that all of the level 50-60 guys/gals are much more powerful/talented than the level 2 person.

Random thoughts however :/
Squidly is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 17:25   #27
Shyne
Flash in the PAN
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Birmingham, Romania
Posts: 554
Shyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud of
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real Arfy
Seriously, what the cock is wrong with you? This goes to everyone else who has threatened to quit next round:

PA team have noted that the stats weren't great and that the XP formula is being changed. Just because 50% of the people playing decided that this round was a **** up, doesn't mean next round will be as well. Or the round after that. Or the round after that. Its reasons like this that we have resets and a suggestions forum - to try out new things, and then implement or change them the following round.
Good post Arfy.

Please consider this round as a grand finale to the XP rounds of late, with the new XP formulae bringing in serious changes.

Broadly, the 'abuse' of the XP system will not be rewarded as previously, and players will be encouraged to hold onto their planet, and to defend.

This can only be a good thing.

Squidly also highlights a good example of how ridiculous the XP system has become.
Shyne is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 17:28   #28
Nadar
I see you!
 
Nadar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In any girl
Posts: 2,825
Nadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidly
Despite the fact that all of the level 50-60 guys/gals are much more powerful/talented than the level 2 person.
Talented is the word you can leave out of that sentence Asc proved themselves talented by playing in the most efficient way this round.
__________________
www.foxystoat.com
Nadar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 17:36   #29
qebab
The Original Carebear
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 1,048
qebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Jester creates the most XP friendly stats ever.
Jester creates an alliance with a huge percentage of XP whores.
Said alliance hides members and therefore makes its strength look weaker.
Said alliance adds members and looks set to win the round.


Hiding the 8 large members is what really pisses people off. Very sneaky of you.
The stats were there for all to see - hell, I even recall playing the beta! Wether it was Jester or someone else to create it, doesn't matter. Say whatever you want, but this issue needs fixing, in my opinion, and whoever uses the current status to their advantage are in their full right.

They hid members. They added members, and they are sneaky!

Call the internet police.
__________________
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it.

Oh crap, I might be back. I should take my own advice.
qebab is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 17:38   #30
Squidly
Avenger of Calamari
 
Squidly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 939
Squidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
Talented is the word you can leave out of that sentence Asc proved themselves talented by playing in the most efficient way this round.
That's debateable... and my analogy still stands.

You prefer then that a player who can keep their roids and benefit from the resources from them and have the most powerful fleet in the game should lose to some person with:

100 wyvern, 50 leviathan
150 harpy
75 barghest, 75 ziz

Correct?
Squidly is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 17:44   #31
ComradeRob
wasted
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Under the floorboards
Posts: 1,240
ComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: Some facts.

Another way of phrasing that question is:

Should a person who has the backup of 54 other people working hard, running def at 4am, scanning and JGPing his targets for him, running his raids for him etc. be able to beat someone who never receives def from anyone, and gets all of his roids from solo attacks, the overwhelming majority of which he scans and JGPs himself?
__________________
“They were totally confused,” said the birdman, whose flying suit gives him a passing resemblance to Buzz Lightyear in Toy Story. “The authorities said that I was an unregistered aircraft and to fly, you need a licence. I told them, ‘No. To fly, you need wings’.”
ComradeRob is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 17:59   #32
Squidly
Avenger of Calamari
 
Squidly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 939
Squidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
Another way of phrasing that question is:

Should a person who has the backup of 54 other people working hard, running def at 4am, scanning and JGPing his targets for him, running his raids for him etc. be able to beat someone who never receives def from anyone, and gets all of his roids from solo attacks, the overwhelming majority of which he scans and JGPs himself?
Said person isn't attacking semi-developing planets consistently either if they're massively large. Whereas the xp-person is able to attack said planets, and also hide underneath a bash limit against those who get annoyed at your tactics.

Edit: That being said however, what was done is still technically within the rules so none the less a 'well-done' is required
Squidly is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 18:17   #33
Troll
DLR HC
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 179
Troll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to behold
Re: Some facts.

The stats were public, but just because the stats are public does not mean that everyone has the same grasp of how they work. If Jester had any experience making stats for a game prior to this then it does not show at all. If I was him I would be ashamed for firstly making such unbalanced stats, and secondly partaking in an alliance that may of cost this game players. Personally I don’t care as this does not affect me or DLR in any way shape or form. I just am worried about the damage jester has done to this game. Perhaps only 50 serious players will leave and not come back? In a game that is already struggling for a member base that’s 50 on top of however many just are naturally giving up.

As per the Ascendancy players that are taking pot shots at DLR, you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. DLR are not true XP whores. Will built fleets with value. We did not crash our fleets on purpose to gain XP or to lower our value. We played with the intension of fighting big battles with big planets and picking off fleets with massive fleet catches. Kind of like a special ops group. None of this materialized except for a brief battle with Jerome and the first attack on 10:4. Other than that no matter what our avg is or was no matter how high we got in the standings I can assure you DLR was never satisfied or happy. I would not play this round again even if it was for free, and I think a majority of this community agrees with that. I can only feel sorry for the MO’s and DC’s of the large alliances that dedicated so much of there time to this round and to there membership. The sleepless nights and missed moments of there real life dedicated to a game that was predetermined from the word go. I am afraid that we will lose some of these people and everyone one that we lose is worth 10 regular players.

I’ve made stats for games far more complicated than Planetarion and they are still used by the respective communities today. One game still uses my altered stats close to 5 years after there initial introduction. Why? Because I strived for balance. Jester CLEARLY did not strive for balance and if anyone claims that just because the stats are public that, that is a balance onto it’s self is clearly inexperienced. When you create stats you can not alter the game engine so you must be aware of the limitations of the engine and work with the stats to compliment and enhance. Instead all these stats do was exploit a flaw in the engine. A flaw that not everyone knew about but Jester clearly did. A flaw that the avg person playing would never know about because they don’t know clearly how the game engine works. Jester did, DLR did. DLR did not exploit the engine. DLR exploited the stats in terms of getting the best roiding fleets, which we do everyround. We didn’t even alter our core game play, attack, Attack, Attack. Ascendancy exploited the stats the engine and the community. I am not bitter about this but I am aware of it.

In the end Ascendancy is the best alliance ever created for a single round. It manipulated with the best of them. It used deceit and misdirection. It won by the means set before it by one of it’s own members. They are the winners of this round. They are cocky and arrogant and they have a right to be because no one saw this coming. It was a master stroke, and I can’t help but admit that I am impressed. However I am unimpressed that a group of players would harm the game so explicitly. To which I say congratulations for winning the round and to helping destroy the game and community you so illy profess to love and care about.

Last edited by Troll; 11 Mar 2006 at 18:22.
Troll is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 18:22   #34
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll
I’ve made stats for games far more complicated than Planetarion and they are still used by the respective communities today. One game still uses my altered stats close to 5 years after there initial introduction. Why? Because I strived for balance. Jester CLEARLY did not strive for balance and if anyone claims that just because the stats are public that, that is a balance onto it’s self is clearly inexperienced. When you create stats you can not alter the game engine so you must be aware of the limitations of the engine and work with the stats to compliment and enhance. Instead all these stats do was exploit a flaw in the engine. A flaw that not everyone knew about but Jester clearly did. A flaw that the avg person playing would never know about because they don’t know clearly how the game engine works. Jester did, DLR did. DLR did not exploit the engine. DLR exploited the stats in terms of getting the best roiding fleets, which we do everyround. We didn’t even alter our core game play, attack, Attack, Attack. Ascendancy exploited the stats the engine and the community. I am not bitter about this but I am aware of it.
This is random unfounded speculation and an extended ad hominem attack again. The stats last round weren't balanced, does that mean appoco (or whoever made them) didn't want balanced stats?
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 18:27   #35
Tesla
Custom User Title
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 581
Tesla is a name known to allTesla is a name known to allTesla is a name known to allTesla is a name known to allTesla is a name known to allTesla is a name known to all
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
Call the internet police.
www.websheriff.com
__________________
I LOVE LAMP
Tesla is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 19:07   #36
ComradeRob
wasted
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Under the floorboards
Posts: 1,240
ComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll
I just am worried about the damage jester has done to this game.
Jester has done more for the community than most people have. He has designed stats twice, which is an unpaid job involving hours of work. If you get it right, nobody notices. Make even the slighest mistake and you're 'ruining the game' that nobody ever paid you to develop.

Not only that, but he has moderated the Alliance Discussions forum in the past, also a voluntary position, and set up the Planetarion Wiki. Nobody asked him to do this, he volunteered because he wanted to do something for the community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll
As per the Ascendancy players that are taking pot shots at DLR, you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. DLR are not true XP whores. Will built fleets with value. We did not crash our fleets on purpose to gain XP or to lower our value. We played with the intension of fighting big battles with big planets and picking off fleets with massive fleet catches. Kind of like a special ops group. None of this materialized except for a brief battle with Jerome and the first attack on 10:4.
If an Ascendancy member had posted 'ha, DLR talk big about their special ops but what did they really do?', you would have accused them of flaming. I would agree that it would be rude to post something like that, but it wouldn't be factually incorrect, as you've admitted yourself. Personally I think DLR played a good round. You're #1 on average score and proved on several occasions an ability to carry out significant attacks. I don't think there's much else to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll
Other than that no matter what our avg is or was no matter how high we got in the standings I can assure you DLR was never satisfied or happy. I would not play this round again even if it was for free, and I think a majority of this community agrees with that. I can only feel sorry for the MO’s and DC’s of the large alliances that dedicated so much of there time to this round and to there membership. The sleepless nights and missed moments of there real life dedicated to a game that was predetermined from the word go. I am afraid that we will lose some of these people and everyone one that we lose is worth 10 regular players.
This round has had the least predictable result of any round I've played in. It was a surprise to me and I knew more about what was going on than most.

However, predetermination and predictability aren't the same thing. So you may in fact be right that Ascendancy's victory was predetermined. If it was, none of us knew it. I have a PM log from early February when Jester and myself (and a few others) began to realise that we might win. It wasn't expected and for some time we were unsure whether we even wanted to win. If I recall correctly, I was in favour of going for the win on the grounds that it would piss off the people whining on the forums. I have not been disappointed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll
I’ve made stats for games far more complicated than Planetarion and they are still used by the respective communities today.
PA team are requesting submissions of stats for next round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll
One game still uses my altered stats close to 5 years after there initial introduction. Why? Because I strived for balance. Jester CLEARLY did not strive for balance and if anyone claims that just because the stats are public that, that is a balance onto it’s self is clearly inexperienced. When you create stats you can not alter the game engine so you must be aware of the limitations of the engine and work with the stats to compliment and enhance.
Explain to me how you would balance the stats. I'm not asking for detail or correct-to-the-nth-decimal figures to prove it, just a general explanation of what approach you would take.

This isn't a rhetorical question; I think you may be wrong about balance, but I'm interested to know what you think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll
Instead all these stats do was exploit a flaw in the engine. A flaw that not everyone knew about but Jester clearly did. A flaw that the avg person playing would never know about because they don’t know clearly how the game engine works. Jester did, DLR did.
What flaw? I'm assuming you mean 'Terran pods kick ass against Zik', something that the majority of Ascendancy clearly never realised or they would have gone Terran. It's also something that I, as Terran, didn't particularly realise, because I've been hitting Xans all round, using the same fleet I had last round. Or were last round's stats screwed too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll
DLR did not exploit the engine. DLR exploited the stats in terms of getting the best roiding fleets, which we do everyround. We didn’t even alter our core game play, attack, Attack, Attack. Ascendancy exploited the stats the engine and the community. I am not bitter about this but I am aware of it.
Explain this exploitation theory please. I can only assume that you think this exploitation is so obvious that you don't need to explain how it works, but it actually isn't.

Let me explain a little bit of my philosophy on this. In the real world, rewards for actions are generally not related to merit. Hard work does not always result in high rewards. Sometimes people get lucky, other times they just figure out how to do something that happens to be easy but highly rewarded. Other people work hard at something that, because it is not valued by others, is not highly rewarded. In short, merit ('deservingness') does not always lead to reward. We generally don't like this, because it feels unfair, but it does lead to progress as people respond to economic incentives by doing things the most efficient way possible (the least work for the most reward) thus allowing us to do more stuff overall (economists refer to this as 'productivity').

Games are generally supposed to be different, in that the 'best' players are supposed to win. Games are meant to offer an even playing field in which the path to victory is obvious and the incentives clear. It is then left to the players to figure out how to achieve victory and compete with each other in doing so.

In the last few rounds, Planetarion has moved away from the simple value approach and has introduced new incentives and restrictions. Compared to the old game, the bash limit is an artificial restriction, and XP is an artificial incentive. What people have failed to realise is that these changes are not just add-ons to the game, they are fundamental changes to the very nature of the game itself. Yes, by the standards of R1-R9.5, Ascendancy don't deserve to win. But under the new incentives and restrictions in the game, playing for XP is the way to go. The stats are largely irrelevant, a point proved by the fact that I finished t100 last round playing purely for XP, as several other players have done in that and previous rounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll
In the end Ascendancy is the best alliance ever created for a single round. It manipulated with the best of them. It used deceit and misdirection. It won by the means set before it by one of it’s own members. They are the winners of this round. They are cocky and arrogant and they have a right to be because no one saw this coming. It was a master stroke, and I can’t help but admit that I am impressed. However I am unimpressed that a group of players would harm the game so explicitly. To which I say congratulations for winning the round and to helping destroy the game and community you so illy profess to love and care about.
**** you. Seriously, **** you.

I'll happily admit to deceit and misdirection; leaving players out of the tag was entirely for that purpose. However, I refute utterly the suggestion that we somehow rigged the game in our favour. The main factors which worked in our favour - the alliance limit, the fact that eXilition didn't play, the free upgrades - had nothing to do with us. As I hope I've already explained, the stats were not a major factor in the outcome of the round.
__________________
“They were totally confused,” said the birdman, whose flying suit gives him a passing resemblance to Buzz Lightyear in Toy Story. “The authorities said that I was an unregistered aircraft and to fly, you need a licence. I told them, ‘No. To fly, you need wings’.”
ComradeRob is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Mar 2006, 23:39   #37
Snurx
Dirte
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,573
Snurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Some facts.

ITS A ****ING WAR GAME, STRATEGY WINS. Simple and easy. They used the best strategy, they might win. It's not abuse, it's not a exploit. It's just plain smart. You might have the best oiled, best geared and best manned warmachine in the world (USA, Sovjet, 1up) but you will still get your ass whooped by pesants with AK's (Vietnam, Afganisthan, Ascendancy) if you're outsmarted.

Fish, stop crying please. You just look like a conspiracytheory nutter.
__________________
"Freedom, morality, and the human dignity of the individual consists precisely in this; that he makes waffles not because he is forced to do so, but because he freely conceives it, wants it, and loves it."
Snurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 Mar 2006, 00:50   #38
Cannon_Fodder
Registered User
 
Cannon_Fodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,174
Cannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidly
Heh... but does having a tiny fleet, attacking only marginally larger planets and winning make for a decent game?

In an RPG, this is the equivelant of a level 2 player being the top ranked because he managed to consistently exploit a flaw in a number of level 5-7 characters... Despite the fact that all of the level 50-60 guys/gals are much more powerful/talented than the level 2 person.

Random thoughts however :/
Yes it does for people who don't/can't spend their entire life on the game.

If they are so much more powerful, they'd have a decent fleet comp.
If they are so much more talented, they'd have realised the best strategy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shyne
Good post Arfy.

Please consider this round as a grand finale to the XP rounds of late, with the new XP formulae bringing in serious changes.

Broadly, the 'abuse' of the XP system will not be rewarded as previously, and players will be encouraged to hold onto their planet, and to defend.

This can only be a good thing.

Squidly also highlights a good example of how ridiculous the XP system has become.
XP rounds of late?
Ignoring the fact that there are/were always idiots whining about xp part way through the round, this is the first round where someone who isnt dedicating all their spare time to this game to do well. If the change was serious, it would be like getting rid of xp, or reducing its effect to 1/10th of what it is.

I hate people who use the term 'abuse of xp'. How are they mis-using xp? Even you get xp when you land your attacks, its no different to what 'xp-whores' get, except they get more of it because they attack well. I'm sure you'll be happy if the PAteam go over board making the game much more defensive so it's like 'old' PA, because you'll be in the minority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidly
That's debateable... and my analogy still stands.

You prefer then that a player who can keep their roids and benefit from the resources from them and have the most powerful fleet in the game should lose to some person with:

100 wyvern, 50 leviathan
150 harpy
75 barghest, 75 ziz

Correct?
That powerful fleet sucks balls then. A one mill value planet from any race could stop that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
Another way of phrasing that question is:

Should a person who has the backup of 54 other people working hard, running def at 4am, scanning and JGPing his targets for him, running his raids for him etc. be able to beat someone who never receives def from anyone, and gets all of his roids from solo attacks, the overwhelming majority of which he scans and JGPs himself?
I'm not having a go at you, just using your quote. (which I agree with your reasoning that xp players can have it harder, although I do scan for JBG from time to time)
It is not a black and white situation, not every xp player is above every value player or vice versa. Unless the stats are really messed up (and before you say it, they aren't.) then if you are getting say, BS incs, you should have a fleet composition that will stop those incs, OR, since you might be in a nice big alliance, get some def.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll
The stats were public, but just because the stats are public does not mean that everyone has the same grasp of how they work. If Jester had any experience making stats for a game prior to this then it does not show at all. If I was him I would be ashamed for firstly making such unbalanced stats, and secondly partaking in an alliance that may of cost this game players. Personally I don’t care as this does not affect me or DLR in any way shape or form. I just am worried about the damage jester has done to this game. Perhaps only 50 serious players will leave and not come back? In a game that is already struggling for a member base that’s 50 on top of however many just are naturally giving up.

As per the Ascendancy players that are taking pot shots at DLR, you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. DLR are not true XP whores. Will built fleets with value. We did not crash our fleets on purpose to gain XP or to lower our value. We played with the intension of fighting big battles with big planets and picking off fleets with massive fleet catches. Kind of like a special ops group. None of this materialized except for a brief battle with Jerome and the first attack on 10:4. Other than that no matter what our avg is or was no matter how high we got in the standings I can assure you DLR was never satisfied or happy. I would not play this round again even if it was for free, and I think a majority of this community agrees with that. I can only feel sorry for the MO’s and DC’s of the large alliances that dedicated so much of there time to this round and to there membership. The sleepless nights and missed moments of there real life dedicated to a game that was predetermined from the word go. I am afraid that we will lose some of these people and everyone one that we lose is worth 10 regular players.

I’ve made stats for games far more complicated than Planetarion and they are still used by the respective communities today. One game still uses my altered stats close to 5 years after there initial introduction. Why? Because I strived for balance. Jester CLEARLY did not strive for balance and if anyone claims that just because the stats are public that, that is a balance onto it’s self is clearly inexperienced. When you create stats you can not alter the game engine so you must be aware of the limitations of the engine and work with the stats to compliment and enhance. Instead all these stats do was exploit a flaw in the engine. A flaw that not everyone knew about but Jester clearly did. A flaw that the avg person playing would never know about because they don’t know clearly how the game engine works. Jester did, DLR did. DLR did not exploit the engine. DLR exploited the stats in terms of getting the best roiding fleets, which we do everyround. We didn’t even alter our core game play, attack, Attack, Attack. Ascendancy exploited the stats the engine and the community. I am not bitter about this but I am aware of it.

In the end Ascendancy is the best alliance ever created for a single round. It manipulated with the best of them. It used deceit and misdirection. It won by the means set before it by one of it’s own members. They are the winners of this round. They are cocky and arrogant and they have a right to be because no one saw this coming. It was a master stroke, and I can’t help but admit that I am impressed. However I am unimpressed that a group of players would harm the game so explicitly. To which I say congratulations for winning the round and to helping destroy the game and community you so illy profess to love and care about.
I can't believe how much bull one person can say in one post. ComradeRob answered this correctly and in depth.
__________________
If one person is in delusion, they're called insane.
If many people are in delusion, it's called a religion.
Cannon_Fodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 Mar 2006, 02:02   #39
Troll
DLR HC
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 179
Troll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to behold
Re: Some facts.

Ok I normally wouldn’t respond but I feel Rob requires some deeper reasoning on my view on this matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
Jester has done more for the community than most people have. He has designed stats twice, which is an unpaid job involving hours of work. If you get it right, nobody notices. Make even the slighest mistake and you're 'ruining the game' that nobody ever paid you to develop.

Not only that, but he has moderated the Alliance Discussions forum in the past, also a voluntary position, and set up the Planetarion Wiki. Nobody asked him to do this, he volunteered because he wanted to do something for the community.
Doing something for the community does not automatically imply that the person is a saint nor does it mean that the things he has done for the community have caused it to grow and prosper. The road to hell is paved with good intensions. If you perform a community service like balancing the stats and they come out in such a blatantly bad manner then yes you deserve what you get as far ad public out cry and I think Jester knows this. It also raises the question as to what checks and balances are in place to stop this sort of thing. Many if not all the people I know that actually pour over the stats before picking a race saw clearly two things. Terrans had the best attack fleet in the game and the armor to become extremely effective at hitting players larger then themselves due to there being a lack of a “no-loss” defense ship. The next thing that any normal individual would do is look for the best way to hurt the Terran. The answer quickly showed it’s self in Zik FI and in Xan FR. I know previously to this round that a DLR representative played each beta and posted the thoughts of the beta on there respective forums. The DLR rep poured over the stats looking for the best fleet for DLR to use. The info was shared and discussed with all of DLR well the beta was on going and the DLR’s posting on the forum there for was the thoughts of an entire group of experienced players. Yet every imbalance that was clearly seen by DLR and pointed too was always shrugged off. It has gotten to the point where it is obvious to us that there is a certain Clique in the PA community that holds considerable sway over PA Team. Opinions other than those from this group are shrugged off and or laughed at from an “I am better than you” perspective. So we no longer care what the stats are or who makes them as long as the game is played. So basically if DLR as a group outside of this Clique so easily saw and recognized the flaws in these stats one would assume that Jester and those in ascendancy could easily have seen them as well. So I guess I am glad he is not paid because if he was it would imply he is a professional. I will refrain from commenting on his other actions prior to this set of stats because the others are not relevant, it’s shame that now all that he has done before will be less remembered compared to that which he has done now. It is sad but both nature for people to remember the bad before the good.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
If an Ascendancy member had posted 'ha, DLR talk big about their special ops but what did they really do?', you would have accused them of flaming. I would agree that it would be rude to post something like that, but it wouldn't be factually incorrect, as you've admitted yourself. Personally I think DLR played a good round. You're #1 on average score and proved on several occasions an ability to carry out significant attacks. I don't think there's much else to say.
I think some of the posts from your members are ignorant and stupid and way off base. However Fish is in DLR and that kind of removes my high ground. I was clarifying our position so that the uniformed could stop posting factually incorrect statements or sit back from afar saying well we could have the highest average so you all suck. I always wonder about the age of people that make those kind of posts, well that and there mental state. Just because there is a computer screen and god knows what else separating an individual from the person/group that they are insulting does not mean they have the right to be rude and leave the standards of civilized society behind. Being online is no excuse to be offensive and rude period. This is no way a shot at you Rob I think you carry yourself well in many ways in your reply even though I could tell it was extremely emotional for you to right given the **** you ending.

Yes DLR performed well, very well. We are not in anyway shape or form satisfied. We feel robbed of our time our effort. Not because we were defeated, for we have been defeated several times and always been able to respect those that vanquished us and then learned from the loss and adapted. For us however there were no battles, no victories no great battle reports, no defeats there was just the emptiness of launch land launch land repeat. If you find this to be entertaining, if it gave you a rush that made you stay in front of the computer wondering what the next move would be by your opponents, then me and you can just agree to disagree right now.

However your positive comments on DLR are welcomed because prior to this I considered you to be a great commander on the field of battle, whom I have a great deal of respect for. I hope next round I can clash swords with you given better circumstances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
This round has had the least predictable result of any round I've played in. It was a surprise to me and I knew more about what was going on than most.

However, predetermination and predictability aren't the same thing. So you may in fact be right that Ascendancy's victory was predetermined. If it was, none of us knew it. I have a PM log from early February when Jester and myself (and a few others) began to realise that we might win. It wasn't expected and for some time we were unsure whether we even wanted to win. If I recall correctly, I was in favour of going for the win on the grounds that it would piss off the people whining on the forums. I have not been disappointed
I would said predetermined. Clearly it was predetermined that and alliance of XP whores would win this round. DLR saw this and tried to convince others of this pre round. Then when ND wanted to try and go to XP whoring I was against it on the grounds I thought it was too late to start doing this mid round and they would just become roid magnets and many of the membership would quit. I think you knew very well that there was a shot in Ascendancy winning. Why else would you keep members out of tag? Clearly it was to keep others from catching on to that which you saw earlier than anyone else. This round would of ended differently should Ascendancy proved early and often that this tactic was capable of working on such a scale. Other alliances would of joined the XP whore fray. You knew this might happened and used concealment to cloak your plans. Brilliant, yes, but further proof that this round was predetermined to go a certain way and you made sure that if it was going to go that way it would only be for ascendancy’s gain. So you wonder why theres a conspiracy theory out there, I wouldn’t if I was you. The fact that you even saythat you decided to go against what would have been the morale high ground to purposely hurt this community in order to piss people off is such an utter disappointment. I hope that this is just your online persona coming through, and not who you are in real life. I can just see you doing things to piss people off and finding it funny. Is there no shame in this world anymore? Grow up Rob, I expect more from you and so should you of yourself. That was a petty thing to say and I hope it was just your emotions getting the best of you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
PA team are requesting submissions of stats for next round.
Then they are going about it all wrong. A tool should be made that allows people to tinker with the stats like a Battle Calc. It should be made public and when someone thinks they have good stats they can submit them. If there is such a tool I am unaware of it, but that is all that is needed. Then a person can share there stats with others and people can tinker with the roiding fleets and possible defense. This is far superior than stats by committee and or betas. One person needs to be put in charge of stats and that one person should have a vision and it is that person (who gets several rounds) who takes all the crap that people send at him and makes the stats as he sees fit. Sink or Swim, he gets the information and the tools and the opinions and makes the most informed decision based on his vision for the game. I would love to be the person in that postion as I have a track record to possible pull it off. I however could not afford to take the time to do so. Time is money and I make good money. I do know some people I think that would be capable of doing the job and if a spot opened up for me to tinker a bit and help out I would be more than willing to do so. However first Direction is needed. Hmm a bit of a ramble there but I have a meeting soon so forgive me for this half done post to your reply. I really have to be going but if you want to have a more fluid discussion on stats and my theory of balanced game play feel free to come to #DLR and hammer it out with me. I really feel Mathematicians make the WORSE stats because they are too calculating. Balance and game play is an art. I’ve seen some of the most brilliant bug finders make the most out of whack stats for games. I’ve then come behind them and fixed up the imbalance going on what they started. I didn’t even know the formula for XP until this round. I don’t need the formulas for anything to make good stats. All I need is a simulation and the ability to adjust units’ stats on the fly easily and run the simulation again. Thruds calc was damn nice giving me XP gains etc and is damn near close to what I would want from a simulator. You can’t change the engine and you rarely need to know how it works, all u need is the results and the ability to ajust the unit stats and view the results again.


Apologies for anyone that reads this other than rob
Troll is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 Mar 2006, 02:30   #40
furball
Registered Awesome Person
 
furball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Some facts.

"developed" = terran fixed, zik fixed.



I hope.
__________________
Finally free!
furball is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 Mar 2006, 03:10   #41
Squidly
Avenger of Calamari
 
Squidly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 939
Squidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniborp
Stuff related to squid
Yes, a 1 mil planet could have stopped that. Ascend weren't attacking 1 mil planets now were they They were attacking those who's fleet were made for roiding and roiding only. They were small and looking for a chance to grow. Thus, a concentrated set of roiding fleets made by ascen weren't touchable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniborp
Yes it does for people who don't/can't spend their entire life on the game.

If they are so much more powerful, they'd have a decent fleet comp.
If they are so much more talented, they'd have realised the best strategy.
Aah... so you believe that someone who doesn't put effort in deserves the same rewards as those that do put effort in.... is that the way it's supposed to be?

You missed my point entirely. ascen whomped 'developing players'. Not the big ones. Looking at #2's fleet, if he came anywhere near my rank 330 planet, he'd be blown to hell with either fleet. And hell, I'm not even big. The high value folks do have decent fleets, and would stop xp people in a heartbeat with 1/4 of their ships.

Talented to keep their roids, coordinate defence and fakes, keep their fleets alive, not crashing them into others.... Yeah. That does take talent. And skill. Etc. As was quoted earlier, the xp guys simply had to launch and go to bed. And that deserves a win? Maybe, maybe not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniborp
That powerful fleet sucks balls then. A one mill value planet from any race could stop that.
see above comment about ascen hitting lower players. Please don't get me wrong here... I'm not trying to pick fights... I'm simply trying to show a point of view here.
Squidly is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 Mar 2006, 03:23   #42
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidly
Yes, a 1 mil planet could have stopped that. Ascend weren't attacking 1 mil planets now were they They were attacking those who's fleet were made for roiding and roiding only. They were small and looking for a chance to grow. Thus, a concentrated set of roiding fleets made by ascen weren't touchable.
Mostly we were/are hitting approximately 1 million value planets.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 Mar 2006, 03:44   #43
Zo0f
Sir peon to you
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 275
Zo0f is a glorious beacon of lightZo0f is a glorious beacon of lightZo0f is a glorious beacon of lightZo0f is a glorious beacon of lightZo0f is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
Would it shock people if I said wasn't happy with how the stats ended up turning out? Because I'm not.
Not even slightly. Wether you intended the round to play out like this does not really matter. If you did? Then hats off to you. If you didn't? Then you should not be let near the stats (or game engine) ever again.

This is not because your stats were unbalanced, most were when you took race distribution into account, but because your mistake ruined so many peoples round.

The first thing you should be aware of when you start to compile stats is that no matter how balanced you make the stats the game engine and race distribution can completely ruin them and the round. While you cannot ever completely account for their effect you can make sure they do not have such a huge effect it ruins the round.

That is where you failed in such a magnificent way.
__________________
Ðragon to the Death!

"The only easy day was yesterday."
Zo0f is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 Mar 2006, 03:46   #44
Squidly
Avenger of Calamari
 
Squidly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 939
Squidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Some facts.

I am however going to reserve this comment until I finish my discussion with JBG on irc

Last edited by Squidly; 12 Mar 2006 at 04:16.
Squidly is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 Mar 2006, 04:24   #45
Chika
Black Power MotherF*ckas!
 
Chika's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: JAPAN
Posts: 1,812
Chika is a splendid one to beholdChika is a splendid one to beholdChika is a splendid one to beholdChika is a splendid one to beholdChika is a splendid one to beholdChika is a splendid one to beholdChika is a splendid one to beholdChika is a splendid one to behold
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
Would it shock people if I said wasn't happy with how the stats ended up turning out? Because I'm not. But I think part of the badness of balance comes from underestimating the impact of the new alliance limit combined with the amount of playing who chose purely attacking strategies.

In my opinion you, as part of DLR, have to take a share of the blame for the round turning out like it did.
I can't see how you are unhappy. These stats are playable b every type of PA player. You can play value or XP. Each race did exactly what they were supposed to. Don't get blinded by the XP talks. The person with the highest score wins. Naturally, the winner will do what he/she needs to do to win. Which is keep a low value. Only the old fashioned people who are not winning are complaining tbh. The stat are great. Cath not with a ship that kills DE would be the only thing I would feel bad about.
__________________
Ascendancy
When Doves Cry
Chika is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 Mar 2006, 04:51   #46
Tomkat
:alpha:
 
Tomkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by idimmu
how inviting

and the new XP formula is going to make no difference at all

Suggest your idea of three ships! A pod, a fighter that shoots pods, and a fighter that shoots fighters!

(they can't be worse than these stats am i rite)
__________________
"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
Tomkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 Mar 2006, 05:41   #47
Squidly
Avenger of Calamari
 
Squidly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 939
Squidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet societySquidly is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
I can't see how you are unhappy. These stats are playable b every type of PA player. You can play value or XP. Each race did exactly what they were supposed to. Don't get blinded by the XP talks. The person with the highest score wins. Naturally, the winner will do what he/she needs to do to win. Which is keep a low value. Only the old fashioned people who are not winning are complaining tbh. The stat are great. Cath not with a ship that kills DE would be the only thing I would feel bad about.
/me eyeballs the viper

Do you mean a cath ship that just kills DE? or a ship that can actually effectively hit DE
Squidly is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 Mar 2006, 06:21   #48
Zh|l
Inquisitor
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: England
Posts: 2,207
Zh|l is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himZh|l is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himZh|l is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himZh|l is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himZh|l is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himZh|l is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himZh|l is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himZh|l is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himZh|l is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himZh|l is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himZh|l is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Some facts.

I don't think many people are as pissed off with this situation as me. For alliance reasons and other reasons.

Regardless, whilst my respect for Rob and jester has now dwindled to an all-time low - it is wrong to frame jester for the speculation in this thread.

Ascendancy was not a master-plan by jester to win the round. I do not believe jester designed the stats with Ascendancy in mind (at least on a consicious level) although he has little to be proud about.

At least itt Rob admits he doesn't give a shit about the game or people within it ( regardless of who they are)
__________________
----------
That uniform you're wearing
So hot I cant stop staring.

Zhil
[Spore] Executive
[1up]
[Fury]
Inquisitorial Lord Protector of His Emperor's Glorius Empire
[20:19:04] <mazzelaar> I have to say a big up to Zhil - without those 8 def calls you covered we would've been screwed. | r12 End Ceremony
Zh|l is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 Mar 2006, 06:47   #49
Chika
Black Power MotherF*ckas!
 
Chika's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: JAPAN
Posts: 1,812
Chika is a splendid one to beholdChika is a splendid one to beholdChika is a splendid one to beholdChika is a splendid one to beholdChika is a splendid one to beholdChika is a splendid one to beholdChika is a splendid one to beholdChika is a splendid one to behold
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zh|l
I don't think many people are as pissed off with this situation as me. For alliance reasons and other reasons.

Regardless, whilst my respect for Rob and jester has now dwindled to an all-time low - it is wrong to frame jester for the speculation in this thread.

Ascendancy was not a master-plan by jester to win the round. I do not believe jester designed the stats with Ascendancy in mind (at least on a consicious level) although he has little to be proud about.

At least itt Rob admits he doesn't give a shit about the game or people within it ( regardless of who they are)
As an HC, I can see how this issue would be frustrating. Its the HC's job to reward thier players for hardwork, etc. The ultimate reward would be a win. Alliances could not combat ascendancy because they didn't know they were a factor, and they still aren't as many are very small, to small to attack, thus alliances are at the mercy of spectating the rest of the round while they coast to victory. I doubt Jester articulated this whole ordeal from the start, but if he did, I want him to head up my company, because he is a smart guy.
__________________
Ascendancy
When Doves Cry
Chika is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 Mar 2006, 09:06   #50
ComradeRob
wasted
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Under the floorboards
Posts: 1,240
ComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: Some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll
I would said predetermined. Clearly it was predetermined that and alliance of XP whores would win this round. DLR saw this and tried to convince others of this pre round.
I think it would have worked in any round which had XP, with the possible exception of rounds 11 and 14 in which one alliance won by such a clear margin and with such high roid counts that value was the dominant factor.

A brief snippet of IRC log from my gal channel last round (nicks removed since I cba to wait for permission to post it):

<@NickA> fu rob
<@NickA> 2.5m score
<@NickA> yet not even 20% of that in value
<@NickB> hehe
<@NickB> i so wanted to play like him!
<@NickB> next round if i play, i'm gonna make a XP whoring BP
<@NickB> or go random :D
<@NickB> the top gal noone could kill :D

What this is intended to demonstrate is that XP whoring was entirely viable last round and the idea for an "XP whoring" strategy was considered perfectly feasible long before anyone saw the stats. I'm sure the same must have been true for DLR - I can't imagine you only decide to play that way after you saw the stats (I'm not suggesting that you're pure XP whores, but XP forms a major part of your strategy). I've always assumed that DLR's focus on XP traces back to ND's failure with a value-based strategy against 1up in r14.

Quite simply, I think you're putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5. Yes, XP-whoring works. Yes, the stats facilitate that. But so did last round's stats. And whilst I can see the argument that the stat designer should not play (at least as HC of an alliance) in the abstract, I can't see anything in the specifics of this round that suggests any actual bias.

Look at it from my point of view, if you can. After a tiring round in r14, I decided to quit 1up because I couldn't commit enough time to be a 1up MO and didn't want to play as an ordinary member (the temptation to 'just run a few def calls' would have been too great anyway). Having seen people successfully XP-whore in the past, I gave it a try in r15. It seemed like something fun to do, that I had never done before. I soon discovered that it was possible to gain a high rank without having to do many of the things that I disliked about traditional play. There was no need for defence calls, therefore no need for people to stay up all night or be woken up to send defence.

Now, I'm not saying that I'm the only person who had this idea. I'm not. I think there was a gradual realisation amongst a number of people that this was a) a viable way of playing and b) more fun than the old way. Once the number of people believing this reached critical mass, an alliance formed. If it hadn't formed with people like me and Jester in it, it would have formed with other people. And it would have done well (I like to think that we did some things better than the hypothetical other alliance might have done, but who knows?).

What I'm trying to explain is that there isn't a conspiracy here, and that there doesn't have to be a conspiracy in order to explain it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll
Then when ND wanted to try and go to XP whoring I was against it on the grounds I thought it was too late to start doing this mid round and they would just become roid magnets and many of the membership would quit. I think you knew very well that there was a shot in Ascendancy winning. Why else would you keep members out of tag? Clearly it was to keep others from catching on to that which you saw earlier than anyone else. This round would of ended differently should Ascendancy proved early and often that this tactic was capable of working on such a scale. Other alliances would of joined the XP whore fray. You knew this might happened and used concealment to cloak your plans. Brilliant, yes, but further proof that this round was predetermined to go a certain way and you made sure that if it was going to go that way it would only be for ascendancy’s gain. So you wonder why theres a conspiracy theory out there, I wouldn’t if I was you.
I think there's a flaw in your argument. Yes, our strategy was the best in the sense that we had the strategy most likely to win. But we didn't know this before the round.

Another trip through the time machine, back to February 6th when we reached the landmark of passing Ely in the rankings:

<Rob`afk> lol :D
<jesterina> almost*
<Rob`afk> having low expectations is fun
<Rob`afk> i mean
<Rob`afk> i know we're not going to win
<Rob`afk> but every small victory is enjoyable
<jesterina> yeah

It might seem highly amusing now, but at the time we had no plan to win the round.

So was the round predetermined? Perhaps it was predetermined in the sense that the XP-based strategy was incredibly good. But was there a conspiracy? No, there wasn't. We didn't know just how good the strategy would be.

Eventually it became apparent to us, and we then decided that if we were going to win we should treat it as a serious strategic aim. Because we didn't run defence, we could hide members out of the tag whilst those above us engaged each other in a war. I stand by this strategy - you might not like it, but it's a legitimate strategy within the confines of the game. Normal alliances probably couldn't do it, because leaving people out of the tag makes it too difficult to defend them. But we didn't defend, so....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll
The fact that you even saythat you decided to go against what would have been the morale high ground to purposely hurt this community in order to piss people off is such an utter disappointment. I hope that this is just your online persona coming through, and not who you are in real life. I can just see you doing things to piss people off and finding it funny. Is there no shame in this world anymore? Grow up Rob, I expect more from you and so should you of yourself. That was a petty thing to say and I hope it was just your emotions getting the best of you.
I don't see anything shameful in pissing off the forum whiners. Seriously, some people on here need to 'get a grip'. Every time anyone wins they get the whole Greek chorus of the forums claiming that they're evil, backstabbing, unscrupulous, unfair etc. If they've done particularly well, they get the ultimate in backhanded compliments: they're 'killing the game'.

I don't equate the people on the forums with 'the community'. By and large, the people who regularly post on the forums and the people most likely to go utterly crazy over someone else winning are not typical of the people I see on IRC. I'm sorry, but I can't take forum posts as being 'the voice of the community', because if they are then the community is populated by some very strange people. I do also tend towards cynicism and sarcasm though, so my comments are probably worth taking with a pinch of salt.

If I genuinely believed we were harming the community then I'd agree with you. But the fact is that we've done nothing but play the game. Yes, we've broken the collective illusion that you can't win by playing for XP. I think this was a useful illusion for the game in some ways, so perhaps it was bad that someone broke it. But it was going to happen some day, if not this round then next.

I can't really comment too much on your stats/beta-related stuff as I haven't been involved in a beta since pre-PAX times, except to note that a lot of what you said is stuff that Jester has said too.
__________________
“They were totally confused,” said the birdman, whose flying suit gives him a passing resemblance to Buzz Lightyear in Toy Story. “The authorities said that I was an unregistered aircraft and to fly, you need a licence. I told them, ‘No. To fly, you need wings’.”
ComradeRob is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 14:42.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018