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2 Dec 2012, 10:49
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#1
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Non directed and witty
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: #ascendancy
Posts: 814
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16 Tick delay to salvage ships
Add a delay before you get the salvage/value loss for the ships. The ships are locked down and just cant be used for those 16 ticks. It can be displayed a bit like an alliance fund donation.
Might put a stop to this stupid OMG IM GETTING ROIDED I SALVAGE MY SHIPS AND MAKE ROIDS situation.
Oh it also gives these cry babies a chance to think about what they are actually doing and back out of it...
__________________
CATHAAAAAARGH
I've won 4 rounds.
I'm kinda a big deal.
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2 Dec 2012, 10:55
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
While this might seem ironic coming from me, I actually used it to stop roidcap a couple of times when I had inc - I sold some ships and pods I wasn't using (as I was not attacking that night anyway) and was able to afford just enough ships to save those last 20-50 roids.
Perhaps just set a cap for it (10% of value), or deactivate it with vacation mode for the last week so it can't be used to spite top planets.
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2 Dec 2012, 10:56
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#3
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
It's fairly amusing. People intend to hurt their attackers, but instead they mostly hurt their own alliances and galaxies. Might be a good idea to introduce a delay.
P.S. **** you, Patrikc.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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2 Dec 2012, 10:57
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#4
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Non directed and witty
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: #ascendancy
Posts: 814
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc
While this might seem ironic coming from me, I actually used it to stop roidcap a couple of times when I had inc - I sold some ships and pods I wasn't using (as I was not attacking that night anyway) and was able to afford just enough ships to save those last 20-50 roids.
Perhaps just set a cap for it (10% of value), or deactivate it with vacation mode for the last week so it can't be used to spite top planets.
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As a cath i've also done this a couple of times to stop a cap, but if people cant play nice they shouldnt be able to play .
Capping how much you could salvage works too!
__________________
CATHAAAAAARGH
I've won 4 rounds.
I'm kinda a big deal.
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2 Dec 2012, 11:13
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#5
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
or just have it be a reversed production that uses factories. that way the more factories you have the sooner you can get it done with etc. for realism sake this makes sense too.
__________________
don't be an arse, join [TiT]
In the absence of the good old TiT alliance, look me up in VGN
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2 Dec 2012, 11:52
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#6
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Over the moon
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Deeeeenmark
Posts: 547
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
Yes, PA needs more realism. Because owning a planet and building ships on it to attack other planets is totally something that I could see myself doing in the future, and this is good practice.
__________________
Golan - Ascendancy
Planets.
Zik: 3rd(r30), 4th(r52), 7th(r27), 9th(r26), 31st(r51)
Ter: 3rd(r50), 4th(r53), 4th(r37), 5th(r31) 7th (r58)
Xan: 3rd(r36), 40th(r57) 54th(r33), 104th(r29)
Cat: 8th (r54), 9th(r48), 12th (r55), 20th(r32), 77th(r23), 103rd(r38), 150th(r34), 152nd(r24),
Etd: 14th(r28)
Those damn emp races..
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2 Dec 2012, 11:58
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#7
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!!!AMERICA!!!
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 793
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
that a pretty good idea you have to use as many factories as you can so while they are in there you lose value tick by tick just like they would if being built
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2 Dec 2012, 12:02
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 477
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
Not being able to initiate roids with more than one wave of incs or smth seem like a better option to me, half of the point of selling ships is being able to spend it on another type of ship to cover your incs.
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2 Dec 2012, 15:47
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#9
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Mind-boggling
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Devon, England
Posts: 1,468
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
/me joined the club
__________________
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. (Winston Churchill)
R21-Randy Dandys Winners R21
1:9:5 -SoClose- -YetSoFar-
You have pending friend requests from Newt.
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2 Dec 2012, 15:58
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#10
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
"LOOK AT ME EVERYONE"
(capscapscaps)
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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2 Dec 2012, 16:32
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#11
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBA
/me joined the club
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If keep following the crowd and acting like a complete sheep CBA then gm is gonna end up fancying you....
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2 Dec 2012, 21:41
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#12
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Mind-boggling
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Devon, England
Posts: 1,468
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
"LOOK AT ME EVERYONE"
(capscapscaps)
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Leave Benneh alone, bully.
__________________
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. (Winston Churchill)
R21-Randy Dandys Winners R21
1:9:5 -SoClose- -YetSoFar-
You have pending friend requests from Newt.
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7 Dec 2012, 09:25
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
* BUMP *
As mz suggested in the Multihunter Idiocy thread...
Remove the "sell ships" option all together.
Seems like the most reasonable suggestion so far
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7 Dec 2012, 16:29
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#14
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Knightly Protector
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Avalon
Posts: 590
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoDD
* BUMP *
As mz suggested in the Multihunter Idiocy thread...
Remove the "sell ships" option all together.
Seems like the most reasonable suggestion so far
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I want an amendment to that stating only steal races (Zik/Etd) planets can sell ships with some restrictions of course. Ziks/Etd planets do end up with some useless steals and having an option to get rid of those ships would be nice.
Now I realize that this will still be open to abuse but if a delay can be put in place so the planet cannot use it to lower his score/value while being attacked then it should solve the problem.
__________________
TGV Ex-HC
-No I am not suffering from insanity. I am enjoying every minute of it.
Est Sularus oth Mithas
My Honour is My Life, My Life is My Honour
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7 Dec 2012, 16:39
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
They choose to def or atk against those "useless" ships, so imo there should be no exception. They clearly like steal ships if they pick zik. And clearly like steal ships if they choose to prod those etd has to offer based on stats.
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7 Dec 2012, 17:58
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#16
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
Good stats should make it impossible (or at least unlikely) that stolen ships are truly useless.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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7 Dec 2012, 19:14
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#17
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Knightly Protector
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Avalon
Posts: 590
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoDD
They choose to def or atk against those "useless" ships, so imo there should be no exception. They clearly like steal ships if they pick zik. And clearly like steal ships if they choose to prod those etd has to offer based on stats.
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So... how would you as a alliance mate feel if I refused to defend you because I dont want to steal some useless ships? Probably wouldnt go down well
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Good stats should make it impossible (or at least unlikely) that stolen ships are truly useless.
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True, but we havent had really good stats in a while. Some decent ones but nothing that prevents useless steals.
Dont get me wrong between having salvage and it being open to abuse and not having it so there is no abuse, I am all for not having it. But I think limiting salvage to zik/etd race and having a 10-24 tick lag before you actually get the resources from salvage I think would eliminate the possibilities of what happened this round.
I would probably lean towards 24 ticks since in the current format of PA, big attacks tend to leak fairly quickly so players can then still abuse this feature if its less than 14 ticks. By keeping it at 24 ticks its highly unlikely that a planet can use the salvage abuse of the game to mess up their attackers.
__________________
TGV Ex-HC
-No I am not suffering from insanity. I am enjoying every minute of it.
Est Sularus oth Mithas
My Honour is My Life, My Life is My Honour
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7 Dec 2012, 19:36
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
to put it this way: Rex then you've most likely prodded ships you don't need for yourself either to begin with. Unless you are trying to create a scenario, that those ships you are referring to have the possibility to steal better ships in same class, rather than those hitting me as they are "useless".
Only definition i would come up with is: you are useless as an allymate, you dont want XP, you don't want salvage and you dont want "useless" ships, but yet you build them yourself
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7 Dec 2012, 20:19
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#19
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Knightly Protector
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Avalon
Posts: 590
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoDD
to put it this way: Rex then you've most likely prodded ships you don't need for yourself either to begin with. Unless you are trying to create a scenario, that those ships you are referring to have the possibility to steal better ships in same class, rather than those hitting me as they are "useless".
Only definition i would come up with is: you are useless as an allymate, you dont want XP, you don't want salvage and you dont want "useless" ships, but yet you build them yourself
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Hmm.. maybe I wasnt clear, lets take this round stats as a loose example. Every zik had pirates in their attack fleet. Pirates stole DE's 1st and then FR's. I had some defenders send their DE fleets so that the buccaneers with initiative of 21 would have a chance to fire since pirates had initiative of 19. This was very very annoying and I have sold a few DE's over the round since having 15k DE was pretty useless.
The above scenario is why I think salvaging should remain if it can be set up so that no abuse like we have seen this round occurs.
__________________
TGV Ex-HC
-No I am not suffering from insanity. I am enjoying every minute of it.
Est Sularus oth Mithas
My Honour is My Life, My Life is My Honour
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7 Dec 2012, 20:44
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
That made me confused.. Scenarion is: Stopping a CR wave right?
Did you sacrifize De so buccs could cap?
How did you end up capping those 15k DE?
And even small ammount off offclass ships are useful to you during the round, or they could just idle at base. We've had it like this for many many more rounds than we haven't. Dont see why it is a problem. It's just something zik's have to keep in mind will happend, when they pick that race.
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7 Dec 2012, 20:47
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#21
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
He had Zik Cr. Defenders sent Buccaneers + De flak. He capped De, which was useless to a Zik.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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7 Dec 2012, 20:49
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
He had Zik Cr. Defenders sent Buccaneers + De flak. He capped De, which was useless to a Zik.
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Sounds like he suicided then
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7 Dec 2012, 21:27
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#23
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Knightly Protector
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Avalon
Posts: 590
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoDD
Sounds like he suicided then
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Not really, i cant remember the whole details but from what i remember from bcalc I made what would have happened is that the Xan DE defender would have made up their losses via salvage since the Zik buccaneer defender would not get any/much salvage due to the change of the salvage formula. So it turned out that in some cases I had to recall because it would have been an overall loss for me even though my pirates would totally destroy the DE flak.
I know its not the best example but the only one I could think of at the moment. I dont mind stealing ships as a zik. Its part of the game, but I would like to have an outlet to get rid of those ships. Lets face it, if I send a 20k DE fleet at someone to attack I might/will get accused of farming quite possibly. So the only way you can lose them then would be on defense missions and unless the attackers crash you would have to send them on defense mission where its not adequately covered so that the attacker lands and he kills your unwanted ships. Thats risky and your also tieing up a fleet slot. So no matter which way, you will have a hard time getting rid of unwanted ships.
__________________
TGV Ex-HC
-No I am not suffering from insanity. I am enjoying every minute of it.
Est Sularus oth Mithas
My Honour is My Life, My Life is My Honour
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12 Dec 2012, 05:37
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
I like to salvage stolen ships so i have lots of 000's theres nothing worse then looking at a fleet of 32041 viper 43890 beet and 3536 mosquito so i tend to salvage 41 viper 890 beet and 36 mosquito just so it looks pretty. pweeze dont deprive me of the aesthetics
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
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15 Dec 2012, 22:32
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#25
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PA Team
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
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Re: 16 Tick delay to salvage ships
As said in CH, this is up for discussion.
It's worthwhile pointing out that zik / etd, when stealing bad ships in defence, you often suffer, so having a salvage option helps. Flip side, it's abusable salvaging SKs.
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r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
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