Rover - Busted or not?

[G.K Zhukov]

The last days news have been somewhat confusing.

Is MG Rover busted or not?

[furball]

Yes. But not officially.

[pig]

I believe MG is not, Rover is, a very sad day for the West Midlands :/ Birmingham and the rest of the west midlands will be greatly affected by this news, its a real shame when we look as though we are doing well as a city.

TBH i think the way its been announced is rather sickening, i.e. the day of the popes fueral, blair and his cronnies will be hoping that no one will notice it, due to the popes funeral, however after watching tv this morning they are wrong.

[midge5]

It seems they have finally gone into administration, hopefully they can be saved as I always liked Rover cars though I am not holding out much hope.

[JammyJim]

you like rover cars??


WHY?!?

is it the shocking reliability
or maybe those utterly appauling looks.

oh and what about the craptastic ride quality and performance statistics.

or maybe its pitching the rover 75 at german territory when it cannot possibly compete


rover should die or reinvent.
theyd need a miracle right now. theyre cars are appauling and they have no new ideas.

[G.K Zhukov]

Rover seems to small to survive, and having your production in a high-cost land as Britian with the strong pound aint no good. I assume the Chinese wont sign up that deal that Rovers needs now :\

Fiat is probably next to go.

[lokken]

Last night the government minister said she believed Rover were in the hands of receivers. She said this to a BBC reporter who did his job rather well by ringing up Rover, who denied it, and PwC (their accountants) to double check this. Surprise, surprise she was wrong and he proceeded to say this through every BBC news platform available.

Effectively what will happen is administration which will try and save the company. The land/physical effects of Rover will probably be sold off piece by piece, the R&D bit might be sold off to make some money to cover debts, and MG kept going as the most viable part of the business.

[G.K Zhukov]

Wont this have consequenses for the minister, as what she said was wrong?

[SYMM]

Like what? :|

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by SYMM

Like what? :|

6000 angry Rovers workers tramping down her home one evning?

Forced to step down?

[SYMM]

I doubt it very much

[lokken]

Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov

Wont this have consequenses for the minister, as what she said was wrong?

Well apparently it was the impression she got from talking to their man in China, so she wasn't lying as such. However, her statement effectively condemned the company by utterly ruining their financial credibility.

I get the impression this was a minister making an honest mistake and being generally incompetent and not checking the facts which in the UK government doesn't get you fired, usually.

Some people believe the only reason Rover are getting help are because it's election year and Birmingham has more marginal seats than you could possibly imagine. It seems that Rover have a n outdated site for mass production, hence people should probably put it out of its misery and invest in the viable quality brand MG part of the business. Yes lots of people will lose jobs, but tons of people have lost jobs and got new ones in the past (because that's life) and we shouldn't throw money at a lost cause. Although i do believe the govt should give help in training skills to those involved in Longbridge as for most of them it's all the work they know, and it'd be ****ing heartless to at least not try and help them in some way.

[JC]

Originally Posted by JammyJim

is it the shocking reliability
or maybe those utterly appauling looks.

oh and what about the craptastic ride quality and performance statistics.

My 9 year old Rover 214 has never had any real problems yet, maybe i'm just lucky . I dont think its that bad looking either really. Admittedly they could have done with updating it when they brought out the new Rover 25 and god knows what they were thinking with the Rover Street.

As for performance, i dont think most people buy their car so that they can go 100mph round a corner and know it wont under or over steer slightly and will have maximum downforce and grip to allow excellent acceleration out of the apex of the corner and down the home straight. Most people arent that bothered as long as their car gets them from A to B, is reliable and looks ok

Rover could have done with whoever has worked wonders with Volvo, they turned an ageing and dying company into a pretty successful one.

Edit: Similar thing for Skoda too.

[lokken]

To be fair you'ld always buy a volvo purely on the basis that it's built like a ****ing tank.

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by lokken

To be fair you'ld always buy a volvo purely on the basis that it's built like a ****ing tank.

Two of my friends had a Volvo 240 each. It could withstand shitloads, and when they bulked another car, theirs was still untouched.
We actually called em tanks

[midge5]

Originally Posted by JammyJim

you like rover cars??


WHY?!?

is it the shocking reliability
or maybe those utterly appauling looks.

oh and what about the craptastic ride quality and performance statistics.

or maybe its pitching the rover 75 at german territory when it cannot possibly compete


rover should die or reinvent.
theyd need a miracle right now. theyre cars are appauling and they have no new ideas.

I'm not sure what Rover my father has but we have had a few over the years and never had any trouble with them. They have been the most reliable cars we have had, even more so than the BMWs (though I still prefer them). I also think it looks pretty decent, though could have done with updating as others have said, and the ride quality was fine as well.

[zakoff]

I severely doubt that Rover will ever recover. Will a Labour Government save a factory and 6000 workers? Not likely - I severely doubt Patricia Hewitt is a true Socialist. More like a token female minister, I doubt she has ever worked in trade or industry either.

the fact is, its a damn site cheaper to build cars in other countries and Rover is not competative either, its cars have had really bad press and they just don't compare to BMW, Mercedes and VW.

MG on the other hand will probably survive. Its highly likely that some company will again rescue the MG side of the company because they are competative and the is a decent market for them.

[pig]

Originally Posted by lokken

Some people believe the only reason Rover are getting help are because it's election year and Birmingham has more marginal seats than you could possibly imagine. It seems that Rover have a n outdated site for mass production, hence people should probably put it out of its misery and invest in the viable quality brand MG part of the business. Yes lots of people will lose jobs, but tons of people have lost jobs and got new ones in the past (because that's life) and we shouldn't throw money at a lost cause. Although i do believe the govt should give help in training skills to those involved in Longbridge as for most of them it's all the work they know, and it'd be ****ing heartless to at least not try and help them in some way.

That is very true Birmingham has alot of marginal seats, which would have most likely been Labour, but now the Longbridge thing and the iraq war, will most likely swing in favour of lib dems.conservatives.

[CrazySpoon]

Originally Posted by zakoff

I severely doubt that Rover will ever recover. Will a Labour Government save a factory and 6000 workers? Not likely - I severely doubt Patricia Hewitt is a true Socialist. More like a token female minister, I doubt she has ever worked in trade or industry either.

the fact is, its a damn site cheaper to build cars in other countries and Rover is not competative either, its cars have had really bad press and they just don't compare to BMW, Mercedes and VW.

MG on the other hand will probably survive. Its highly likely that some company will again rescue the MG side of the company because they are competative and the is a decent market for them.

MG > Rover

They drive way way better and I like their looks. So I really hope atleast MG will survive.

[Dead_Meat]

The MGF was a horribly unreliable car, the others (25, 45) were incredibly old and needed killing before MG tried to change them into 'wikkid street cred boy racer' with a bunch of spoliers and alloys.

The 75 was a great car, just designed at the wrong time. When people wanted modern, the 75 gav ethem old-school. Whatever MG called their version of it, apprently the estate version was pretty good and teh saloon not bad either, but with no money to fund 'new' cars, it was only a matter of time before it failed.

Besides, who the hell is going to pay £80k for this?, when you can buy a Porsche/Noble/whateverthehellyoulike for the same cash or, more importantly, a hell of a lot less.

Madness.

[zakoff]

Originally Posted by pig

That is very true Birmingham has alot of marginal seats, which would have most likely been Labour, but now the Longbridge thing and the iraq war, will most likely swing in favour of lib dems.conservatives.

it will in no way effect the amount of votes for Conservatives. The labour voters who will be upset by this are the 'workers' - those in manufacture and industry (there are very few left but most are labour voters). This group of people is certainly not going to vote Tory and isn't that likely to vote for Lib dem either. They will continue with Labour, vote for the Socialist alliance or most likely just not vote.


Dead_Meat - MG will only need to sell a few. Many richer folk are more interested in English cars. That is why TVR's and MG's sell quite well. My dad would consider an English car over a Porsche or any other cheaper foreign car because he owned MG's in the 'olden days' when mgs were good cars. But their main market has to be the above average Boy racer car, for those richer boy racers who can afford more than a old Nova or Escort.

[roadrunner_0]

MG's are shit

[ceres]

Originally Posted by pig

That is very true Birmingham has alot of marginal seats, which would have most likely been Labour, but now the Longbridge thing and the iraq war, will most likely swing in favour of lib dems.conservatives.

The conservatives are definately targetting that area, i was recently in the Birmingham/Walsall area and saw a suprising amount of those "are you thinking what we are?" advertising boards.
________
Buy cannabis seeds

[Dead_Meat]

Originally Posted by zakoff

iDead_Meat - MG will only need to sell a few. Many richer folk are more interested in English cars. That is why TVR's and MG's sell quite well. My dad would consider an English car over a Porsche or any other cheaper foreign car because he owned MG's in the 'olden days' when mgs were good cars. But their main market has to be the above average Boy racer car, for those richer boy racers who can afford more than a old Nova or Escort.

TVR sells quite well because they make cars unliek anything else, without ABS or any other driving aids.
MG, on the other hand, has caught car-AIDS as far as that monstrosity goes. I've seen reviews of the TVR Tamora vs the MG and the TVR wins in almost every department and is half the price.

MG did well in the past when it sold MGB's, Midgets and other cars like it, because the masses could afford them and they were simple cars.
Once it got tied in to dodgy Rover offshoots (MG Maestro, Montego and Metro anyone? Thought not.) it was on a one-way road to car-building heaven.

[Weeks]

Again, I thought this thread was going to discuss the hyperthetical results of the former-boy band Busted managing the former-British car manufacture MG ROVER.

[roadrunner_0]

Originally Posted by Dead_Meat

TVR sells quite well because they make cars unliek anything else, without ABS or any other driving aids.
MG, on the other hand, has caught car-AIDS as far as that monstrosity goes. I've seen reviews of the TVR Tamora vs the MG and the TVR wins in almost every department and is half the price.

MG did well in the past when it sold MGB's, Midgets and other cars like it, because the masses could afford them and they were simple cars.
Once it got tied in to dodgy Rover offshoots (MG Maestro, Montego and Metro anyone? Thought not.) it was on a one-way road to car-building heaven.

i say again (especially to the person who neg-repped me with no reason or name) MG's are shit

[wu_trax]

its all about the brand. the wages can't be that important, i mean, we have 3-4 car companies which so far a pretty much sucessful (emphasis on so far, VW and daimler are doing pretty bad atm) and wages or at least costs per hour are most likely a lot higher here.
As for Rover, i'd guess its over, they can't earn any money for years. To make money again, they would have polish up their brand image and that would cost a lot of money (same goes for Fiat and Opel).

[JammyJim]

Opel / Vauxhall are hugely successful. I dont think its fair to lump a crappy dying product with a brand that has recently reinvogorated its sales and totally redesigned itself aroud a new design ethos.

Fiat however, i agree with.

[midge5]

Originally Posted by wu_trax

its all about the brand. the wages can't be that important, i mean, we have 3-4 car companies which so far a pretty much sucessful (emphasis on so far, VW and daimler are doing pretty bad atm) and wages or at least costs per hour are most likely a lot higher here.
As for Rover, i'd guess its over, they can't earn any money for years. To make money again, they would have polish up their brand image and that would cost a lot of money (same goes for Fiat and Opel).

I was reading about this situation and apparently Rover workers only average 11 cars each, can't remember over what time period, I think it was a year but that seems a tad low. Some other car manufacturer in the north of England though is averaging around 33 cars per employee so it isn't just that they are in an area with higher wages, they are extremely unproductive.

[wu_trax]

Originally Posted by JammyJim

Opel / Vauxhall are hugely successful. I dont think its fair to lump a crappy dying product with a brand that has recently reinvogorated its sales and totally redesigned itself aroud a new design ethos.

Fiat however, i agree with.

Vauxhall maybe, i have no idea, but Opel is finished. I know they build the same cars, but, as i already said, it's all about the brand, else everyone would drive a toyota. GM completly ****ed that up, they have no idea about the market.

[JammyJim]

Opel is just the European name for Vauxhall?

[wu_trax]

Originally Posted by JammyJim

Opel is just the European name for Vauxhall?

yes, but if people think that opel builds crappy cars it wouldn't matter if they would build the best cars in the world, people still wouldn't buy them.

[pig]

Originally Posted by ceres

The conservatives are definately targetting that area, i was recently in the Birmingham/Walsall area and saw a suprising amount of those "are you thinking what we are?" advertising boards.

idd, its a shame in such a labour majority city that the tide has changed so much...c'est la vie.

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by JammyJim

Opel is just the European name for Vauxhall?

No. Vauxhall is the name for Opel in Britain

In Europe there is two companies who has more problems than anyone else. That is Fiat and General Motors. Opel doesnt do well, Saab doesnt do well. Fiat is perhaps going bust within 3-4 years. WW and Mercedes-Benz has problems, but they belong to a group (VAG for WW, where Audi and Skoda is doing well, and in the Daimler-Chrysler group Crysler is doing well) witch gives them the ability to go into red for a year without going bust.

[wu_trax]

i wonder when GM will go bust (or when they will stop building cars and fully concentrate on banking, which is the only thing they make any money with)