Round 14 Potential Feature - Advanced Quests

[Kal]

I would like quests back in the game, but in a different way.

For a start I want quests to at least be connecting to the optimum way of doing things at the start of the game - so based around decent tick plans

However I also want quests to be bigger and better than they were in the olden days, I want some race specific quests e.g. for Zik's "Steal a Terran Battleship", but more importantly I want quests that tell a story, that give a feel for the races.

Another feature that I think would be really good would be an interface for players to submit new quests, with the option to state whether they should be for all races, a particular race, and also what the reward should be.

In order to make quests nice and flexible they would have to be related to logged information - so combat, covert ops for example (though more things could potentially be logged). However its more complex than that if I want user submittable ones - for example having a quest to attack the #1 planet would although be easy to code, woudl be hard to do unless we had considered that at the design stage. So basically we need to think of every single possible quest type we might want.

So I suggest the following quest types to start things off:
Attack (*)
Defend (*)
Scan (*)
Covert-Op (*)
Initiate Roids (+)
Trade with galaxy fund (+)
Trade with universal fund (+)
Research X (+)
Construct X (+)
Join an alliance (#)

* - sub options
a planet of race X
a planet in the top X ranks
a planet
a planet in your galaxy
a planet in your cluster
a planet at least X percent greater in score than you
a planet at least X percent greater in value than you
a planet and kill more ships than you loose
a planet and destroy more value than you loose
a planet with coords X:Y:Z
and destroy X ships of type Y
and destory X constructions of type Y
and steal X ships of type Y (race specific)
and emp X ships of type Y (race specific)

+ - sub options
In the first X ticks of the game
in the next X ticks

# - sub options
remain in the alliance for X ticks

So the quests would be of a particular type, and then have sub options as well as an optional description to tie in story elements and things (and possibly an atached image)

Each quest would also have an assigned difficulty level (1-10)

The reward form doing the quest would be in XP and would be difficulty level *50

Special sotry line quests wouild have extra additional rewards. This reward shoudl also be selectable if the quest is designated a sotry line quest. Rewards would include:
X of ship Y
X of roid Y
X of construction Y
X advances down research branch Y

In addition to this the 1st person to complete particular story line quests could be rewarded a Golden Asteroid, the 2nd a Silver Asteroid and the 3rd a Bronze Asteroid. Obviously in order to keep the specialness of theese roids there would be only a handful of special quests that give them out and once they are given out thats it no more. (Kloopy thiks it should just be the 1st person not 2md and 3rd who get things)

After the first 10 quests have been completed it should then be possible to skip quests and pospone until later - however one would still be in the first batch of quests at this stage (the tick plan style quests). In order to move onto the 2nd batch of quests one must complete all the tick plan quests. It is in the 2nd batch that story line quests would happen as well as other random quests. It woudl only be possible to do story line quests once, but the other quests can be done an infinte n umber of times. It would again be possible to skip a quest (though story line quests should not be skipable), but if a quest is skipped the probability of the next quest being a sotry line quest should be reduced.

Note if quests are based of the logs then one would not need to do the action for a quest if one had allready done it in the past 500 ticks.


The easiest way to manage this all would be to have a seperate quests page where users can inform the system when they have completed their quest as well as being able to submit new quests - though maybe this could all fit into a current page?

[RobTD]

I like the idea of quests. Could be a good improvement to the game, and could also add a lot of fun.

However, it could also get out of hand, so before it is implemented heavy testing, planning, designing, etc would be required.

Another possibility: alliance quests? Let alliances do quests, like conquer X roids, etc.

But the idea sounds good :-)

[higginz]

good ideas mate

what about basic quests too for noobs, to help them get how to play, so like build a light factory.... and now get ur resources up to ... init 200roids, research this, etc. until they got a decent standing if u get me

This alongside the manual could get ppl who sign up to actually continue playin, may reduce number of exiles...


What if alliances can make their own Quests, ie take out some coven members (maybe from a list of targets, and no offence coven ) or destroy some of this guys wave deflectors. Anything that could benefit the alliance and the member too.

[Appocomaster]

I fully support optimised quests related to 'standard' tickplans. It'd be fun to have quests suggested before tickstart, and implemented etc, but I don't see how they'd work while ticks were running?

[The Real Arfy]

Attack
and land within the first 168 ticks (7 days = 4 days + protection)
a planet with a greater value than your own
a planet in the top (your_score * 0.8) ranks - i.e. rank #100 attacking rank #80 or higher
without losses

Defend
a planet ingal
a planet incluster
a planet in your alliance
a planet with a lower value than your own
a planet and kill more ships than you lose

Initiate Roids
reach a certain number of roids before leaving protection

IRC
Register with netgamers and login to P (is this possible?)

Research
Be able to mine 200 roids by tick 72

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

I fully support optimised quests related to 'standard' tickplans. It'd be fun to have quests suggested before tickstart, and implemented etc, but I don't see how they'd work while ticks were running?

some quests could be designated starter quests - once theese are completed people could then have access to a quest rotation that doens;t let u repeat a quest until you have done all other quests in the rotation - it is this rotation that new quests could be added to.

I have made some updates to the first post based on suggestions so far

[Marv]

I always loved doing the quests, especially having to wait not only for abit of tech to finish, but to then apply it to the quest ot gain reward :-)

This will also make the game more friendly to new and less experienced players and add a new dynamic to the advanced ones :-)

[TheRat]

Quests are good, if handled correctly. I like the idea of having em as a roadplan for weaker players to follow, throughout the game, so it makes it easier for them to keep up.

Heres an idea tho, with the introduction of xp to this game. Instead of the good old "quest gives you res & roids", why not follow the standard rpg system where quests give you xp? That would interest larger better players in following the quests aswell.

[TheRat]

Originally Posted by Kal

IHowever I also want quests to be bigger and better than they were in the olden days, I want some race specific quests e.g. for Zik's "Steal a Terran Battleship", but more importantly I want quests that tell a story, that give a feel for the races.

I like it. It would give the game a more rpg'ish feel, and not same dull old "attack, defend, sleep" routine. It would require it to be done properly though, being a much larger system than what it once was.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by TheRat

Quests are good, if handled correctly. I like the idea of having em as a roadplan for weaker players to follow, throughout the game, so it makes it easier for them to keep up.

Heres an idea tho, with the introduction of xp to this game. Instead of the good old "quest gives you res & roids", why not follow the standard rpg system where quests give you xp? That would interest larger better players in following the quests aswell.

XP I think would be the basic reward - but depending on the quest you may get a "bonus" reward.

I think quests shoudl perhaps be ranked with a difficulty - harder quests get a greater XP reward

Perhaps only story line quests should give special rewards.

[Banned]

There should be an option to skip or postpone quests. On the old quest system I'd always get stuck on some stupid 'Do 50 ticks of research for 10 resources' quest on a research I had no intention of doing for another 200 ticks.

[MAdnRisKy]

Read X page in the manual to learn Answer Y to question Z.

(where question z is for example: does an equal number of jammers and amps allow a successful scan yes/no - I'd expect everyone reading this forum to know that particular one so insert harder ones to taste, but a new starter may not have read anything on scans yet, and forcing them to read up on it is a good way to spread understanding and encourage people to look deeper into the game and become more envolved. I've seen sites who ask people to answer info found in their faq at sign up and it's that kind of approach...)

oh and then make sure the manual is comprehensive

[edit] coding wise you have a lot of it done already for the login pages, it would be a matter of intergrating that code [/edit]

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Banned

There should be an option to skip or postpone quests. On the old quest system I'd always get stuck on some stupid 'Do 50 ticks of research for 10 resources' quest on a research I had no intention of doing for another 200 ticks.

good idea

[Kal]

Originally Posted by MAdnRisKy

Read X page in the manual to learn Answer Y to question Z.

(where question z is for example: does an equal number of jammers and amps allow a successful scan yes/no - I'd expect everyone reading this forum to know that particular one so insert harder ones to taste, but a new starter may not have read anything on scans yet, and forcing them to read up on it is a good way to spread understanding and encourage people to look deeper into the game and become more envolved. I've seen sites who ask people to answer info found in their faq at sign up and it's that kind of approach...)

oh and then make sure the manual is comprehensive

[edit] coding wise you have a lot of it done already for the login pages, it would be a matter of intergrating that code [/edit]

can you show me an example of one of thoose sites

[Judge]

Quest::-

Sign up for a Forum account and post on the forums.

Each Forum user could be given a UID number in the control panel.

Enter the UID number into the quest screen and gain a bonus (roids/res)

Or same for Portal ?

[Kal]

Round 14 should have the now infamous passport....

[Cochese]

I'm all for it.

The basic idea would be scripting 'quests' based upon the right way to start a planet...doing the first couple HCT, hulls, traveltime, etc.

After that, the storyline-based quests is excellent (did you sneek a peek at my notes, Kal? ). Should increase in difficulty and reward as it goes, to keep the better players interested.

Also, something really nifty for finishing them all.

[MAdnRisKy]

Originally Posted by Kal

can you show me an example of one of thoose sites

Unfortunately the one I saw was a naughty site (torrents) that has since *disappeared*

esentially it had on the sign up page a question which it said could be answered by reading page X of the FAQ, and you couldn't complete the signup until you browsed through it and found the answer

(the one I had was about port forwarding and which ports you needed to open on your firewall, you had to imput the range)

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Cochese

(did you sneek a peek at my notes, Kal? )

I won't deny I read them, but I had all the ideas first

[Orion Treet]

About the attack quests, not just attack, but land the attack For the rest I think it's a great idea, and for the more risky/difficult ones make greater rewards (like landing on say a top 100 planet and gaining more than you loose as a good deal more difficult one, but also greater reward, and have that quest say like after tick 300-400)

[Kal]

OK I have heavilly revised the inital post and added in stuff about sotry line quests

[Banned]

In order to move onto the 2nd batch of quests one must complete all the tick plan quests.

Stupid. There is no one best tick plan before ticks begin, rewarding people for following a potentially harmful tick plan is a bad idea.

Reward milestones (100th initiated roid, 5th building, whatever) rather than arbitrary goals.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Banned

Stupid. There is no one best tick plan before ticks begin, rewarding people for following a potentially harmful tick plan is a bad idea.

Reward milestones (100th initiated roid, 5th building, whatever) rather than arbitrary goals.

I didn;t say what the tick plan quests would be - but I don;t want people being able to rush onto the story line quests and hence getting the special bonuses first.

[Kal]

also it must ofc allow for complete failing of quests - e.g. if you have to get 200 roids by tick 60 and you fail you shouldn;t be stuck trying to do that quest forever.

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by Banned

Stupid. There is no one best tick plan before ticks begin, rewarding people for following a potentially harmful tick plan is a bad idea.

Reward milestones (100th initiated roid, 5th building, whatever) rather than arbitrary goals.

No but there is a generally accepted notion that mining, research and construction should be your priorities for the first 48 ticks and that research lab is one of the better options for your first construction and all but cath generally go for 2 HCTs. There are things common to _all_ tick plans, like making sure that say the 5th-6th research (at most) is a fighter tech, and having a few ships around by tick 100 isn't a bad idea, even if they're not there by tick 72.
I don't think the point was "by tick 40 you have to have the first core extraction tech, by tick 60 you have to have 1 of each mine type and a research lab, by tick 72 you have to have a fi class attack fleet (if you're xan)" etc etc.
But it can be used to give people things to aim for, in conjunction with manuals / guidebooks.

[Conall]

Just a bit of history for some of us. When were there quest before and how did the work? As you can see from my sig I skipped a few rounds so I am not familar with how request worked previously.

[Bashar]

The best quests would be ones where there are multiple paths through with different benefits based on the players decisions/completion of other quests so that no 2 planets have the same, and where players don't know what's coming, i.e. a closed development issue for the nature of the quests and specifics, but open for the basic concept and how they work.

[Orion Treet]

Wtf is a storyline quest? The story of a round/planet can not be predetermined so I don't get what you mean with that.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Bashar

The best quests would be ones where there are multiple paths through with different benefits based on the players decisions/completion of other quests so that no 2 planets have the same, and where players don't know what's coming, i.e. a closed development issue for the nature of the quests and specifics, but open for the basic concept and how they work.

ideally that is what we would do - but we do not have a dedicated full time content creation team so we are going to have to work with the community - though ofc things can evolve over time

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Orion Treet

Wtf is a storyline quest? The story of a round/planet can not be predetermined so I don't get what you mean with that.

stories of the races and the universe

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by Kal

ideally that is what we would do - but we do not have a dedicated full time content creation team

is this going to change?

not that i have any objections to community input :-)

I didnt have time to read it all upto my reply so sorry if i come up with things already said.
So, here i go. Basicly i was thinking of going a bit deeper into this quest side. For one, i hated quests being removed in the first place. My idea, instead of getting a reward for a simple launch, get the reward for killing x sentinels in an attack or for destroying a light factory etc. Also, this can be done with alliances.. some quest would sound like " steal 1k roids from 1up" (my personal fav .. Anyway, the point of all these specific quests would get to this... I remembered we used to have something like Lord Advisor etc.. so, why not, depending on quests you do, on some "branches" you choose ( maybe simply because someone refuses to do a quest he doesnt intend to do for 200 ticks and he gets stuck somewhere in the usual one branch quest "tree") you would get special bonuses that would apply all thru round .. ie some armour for you ships (to put it simple). You would, so, get to be named " Lord Defender x of y".

Anyway, idea could sound hard to accomplish, to programmers and if so it remains only an idea (altho it can get very far by developing this). Thanks for your time.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

No but there is a generally accepted notion that mining, research and construction should be your priorities for the first 48 ticks and that research lab is one of the better options for your first construction and all but cath generally go for 2 HCTs. There are things common to _all_ tick plans, like making sure that say the 5th-6th research (at most) is a fighter tech, and having a few ships around by tick 100 isn't a bad idea, even if they're not there by tick 72.
I don't think the point was "by tick 40 you have to have the first core extraction tech, by tick 60 you have to have 1 of each mine type and a research lab, by tick 72 you have to have a fi class attack fleet (if you're xan)" etc etc.
But it can be used to give people things to aim for, in conjunction with manuals / guidebooks.

Yes, I get that.

But penalizing people for being creative is bad.

[olle]

Quest are a nice way to get better into the game and could also be fun.
Not all might like quest so it could be optinal.. activate/disable quest...?

Like on the Universe place were you have top Players, gals, allys, co-ops, and so on you could stuff in a quest list seeing who have done most quest etc.

Seeing if quest are gonne be so "big" it whould be best to give it a own page. If not so "big" you could put the diffrent quest under the diffrent pages. F.eks on convert ops page - Quest, Havoc a planet double your size.

A nice option could be if you want to "save" after doing a quest or not, stuff it in the jorunal or history.

[BloodyButcher]

The idea of quest is brilliant for new players because they can learn the game faster, and find it more funny in the start.
But the idea of having so many quest late game aint realy something i would fancy.
Having quests like, "registre a pnick", "join an alliance", "defend", "attack", "Inititate roids" is basics who prolly any skilled player would bother to do, and it would make it possibole for the new players to faster and easier get to know the community and learn and adapt to the game.

[Vencedor]

OK
That took a while
I just read all the posts ... phew

... soooo
Yes, quests rule
uhm.... I would comment but now you've stolen my (unpublished) idea that I was going to use in my game that I'm learning PHP to make

But yeah, quests are good ... and try and make lots and lots and lots of them
But not ones like "make a p nick" ... unless ofc you have a thing you can fill out (ur P username/password) that checks if u already have an account

Make heaps of the attack someone xx% bigger than you... covert op someone in cluster xx

... but... no more ideas ... you'll think im makin a PA clone when my game is done otherwise, LOL

[sixth]

Now im going to try and make things hard.

It would be good to be able to turn quests on and off so if the quests start to get repative you can choose to stop them. Also being able to chose what quest you wanted to do would be good but make the quests harder as you go along. So a quest that is like steal 50 roids for a planet eventually will be steal 5000 roids from a planet which would be close to impossible.

It would be good to have an allince war feature like The HC/BC of an alliance could chose to "attack" another ally. So the attacking alliance could have a quest like make alliance x drop y amount of ranks in z amount of ticks. And the defending alliance could have a quest like do not drop y amount of ranks in z amount of ticks.

Also a quest to gain score or ranks could be a good quest.

Just some ideas.

[Blixxard]

I always have envisaged quests like this .

Random events in which you have a set number of ticks to respond to, each with a different outcome.

[Alessio]

Originally Posted by Blixxard

I always have envisaged quests like this .

Random events in which you have a set number of ticks to respond to, each with a different outcome.

I hate random events but this looks kinda sexy nice1

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Blixxard

I always have envisaged quests like this .

Random events in which you have a set number of ticks to respond to, each with a different outcome.

That looks cool.

2000 metal is totally not worth 20 XP though

About the general idea, i think it is great. Though, i also gues it needstons of work, from making stories to drawing pics...

Originally Posted by Blixxard

I always have envisaged quests like this .

Random events in which you have a set number of ticks to respond to, each with a different outcome.

Nice one! But you must then define the strange forms defence, e.i. define what fleet can be able to kill them and such. Also, if we aer going to do like this, there should be a new stats(ships)that targets such forms...

[x-dANGEr]

That was my post in the unregistered name :eek:

[Blixxard]

I was just bouncing an idea around.

The quests can be anything from strange phenomenon to pirate hijacking your asteroid mining transports.

There are many possible routes when trying to come up with a development idea for quests.

[Ultimate Newbie]

i think full intergrated of the manual into quests would be a good idea - ofc it would need a dedicated page - but the point of the quests is to teach those who do not know how to play. By combining actions (quests), with explanations (manual) to achieve Goals (objectives outlined in the quests), for Rewards for achieving them - this should result in the best communication of knowledge possible.

The way i envisage this to happen would be like Blixard's example - a page that desribes an event and the goal. Immediately below it would be the revelent section of the manual - which explains briefly and simply - the nature of what's going on. This would also give hints as to how to compelte the objective and achieve the reward. Otherwise, new players would be thinking 'hey that was pretty random, but i did get an extra roid... whatever the hell that does...'

As an aside, i think it might be worth mentioning that you are trying to teach the skills to attack/defend etc - thus you do not neccesarily need to actually attack the #1 planet. eg, by choosing a fleet, selecting attack, typing in the correct co-ords and hitting 'launch' - the player has demonstrated the skills to launch a hostile fleet at a planet. The fleet doesnt actually have to launch, which means you can add this quest in before protection ends - as at least some players would come under attack straight away and should know how to launch a fleet right from the beginning.

Blixxard: i think your idea is great - however i think it should fill a seperate purpose. Planetarion has been trying to introduce randomness into the game for a long time now - including inaccurate scans, randomness in battle, 'war' engineering setup etc. This, imo, is the perfect way to introduce random events that players can respond to - if anything to break the monotony.

Whether it ties into quests or not is another question.

Perhaps it can be used as an exam - to test a player's knowledge. eg the 'send the ships to attack' option could involve the necessity to launch a fleet - thus demonstrating that a player can launch a fleet without having to be lead by the nose to do it.

just an idea :\.

*btw the bad part about my plan is that the manual will need to be virtually totally rewritten. Further, i would still like to see the manual to be up on its own page (for reference), but having it on the quest page is critical imo to make quests a learning tool.

[Ultimate Newbie]

Btw, i'm not a huge fan of these 'capture 50 roids from a planet' type quests - as new players would be repeatedly loosing their fleets (however small) to try and complete this goal. Imagine their dissapointment when - after 5 attempts and 5000 ships later - they get an extra roid.

Teaching players how to use a battlecalculator would be a far better skill - however doing so with only external battle calculators would be difficult. An internal "in-game" calc would be easy enough to use for a new planet, as you could instruct them to Sector and Unit scan their target, hit a button and the data would be sent to the in-game calc. then they could be instructed to hit another button, where all their ships would be added. then they could be instructed in how to tweak the battlecalc to achieve the best results.

just saying 'cap 50 roids' is a much more difficult proposition for a starting player.

my 2 cents anyway :P

[Blixxard]

Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie

Blixxard: i think your idea is great - however i think it should fill a seperate purpose. Planetarion has been trying to introduce randomness into the game for a long time now - including inaccurate scans, randomness in battle, 'war' engineering setup etc. This, imo, is the perfect way to introduce random events that players can respond to - if anything to break the monotony.

Yes, I would have to agree.

Events & Quests

Quests.
Like Kal suggested a storyline, for each race. A way to get players involved in something else, such as working out attacks on the battle calculator or getting used to Planetarion.
Quests could help new players out a lot. Very much like the ones Pre-round 10.

Events.
Random events that spring with in which players have a limited time to respond. Encourages activeness so you don’t miss an event. However at the same time allow enough time so you don’t have to be on 24 hours a day eagerly awaiting an event.

Two seperate items on one page. That would be my idea of tackling Quests.

[LukeyLove]

hmm this gets the Lukey stamp of approval

[Kargool]

I dont really think Quests should be put in the game. I rather think you should develop the tech three idea. Giving new techs. For instance you can build stuff that increases populace on your planet etc. Will give out a longer suggestion when I get time

[WesseH]

Originally Posted by Cochese

I'm all for it.

The basic idea would be scripting 'quests' based upon the right way to start a planet...doing the first couple HCT, hulls, traveltime, etc.

After that, the storyline-based quests is excellent (did you sneek a peek at my notes, Kal? ). Should increase in difficulty and reward as it goes, to keep the better players interested.

Also, something really nifty for finishing them all.

now.. i havent had time to read beyond this post yet.. but as i see mainly ppl i know r experienced, skillfull players, and i mostly see them covering their own arse by making sure that quests, if re-implemented will benefit them aswell...

tbh, i think u may even wanna go as far as DENYING Top 200 planets from performing quests in its ENTIRETY


The reason for this is, skillfull, active, experienced and most importantly, KNOWN players (ppl whoms name is 'famous' in the majority of IRC channels etc) will be miles and miles ahead in score/value by the time them n00bs have found out wtf a quest even IS.... as such i would encourage quests to be brought back as a means for newer players to gain extra XP through doing that which should turn them into better players (the quest-suggestions as posted on this thread) but i definately DISCOURAGE those who already make monster scores over the first week(s) to benefit from this aswell by giving them increased XP per quest completed...

maybe the reward for quests should be 1) increasing by number of completed quests, 2) quest difficulty and, most importantly 3) by universe rank. Give a top 1100 player 5.5x the XP u will give a top 100 player (would mean rank x 0.5 = quest reward multiplyer)

giving someone 5.5x the XP of someone else may seem like a huge difference... but keep in mind the score difference between top 10 and top 11 - 20 over the latest rouds and u too should see that it will not turn an insignificant n00b inactive into a worthy adversary just yet...

[Shev]

Originally Posted by WesseH

now.. i havent had time to read beyond this post yet.. but as i see mainly ppl i know r experienced, skillfull players, and i mostly see them covering their own arse by making sure that quests, if re-implemented will benefit them aswell...

tbh, i think u may even wanna go as far as DENYING Top 200 planets from performing quests in its ENTIRETY


The reason for this is, skillfull, active, experienced and most importantly, KNOWN players (ppl whoms name is 'famous' in the majority of IRC channels etc) will be miles and miles ahead in score/value by the time them n00bs have found out wtf a quest even IS.... as such i would encourage quests to be brought back as a means for newer players to gain extra XP through doing that which should turn them into better players (the quest-suggestions as posted on this thread) but i definately DISCOURAGE those who already make monster scores over the first week(s) to benefit from this aswell by giving them increased XP per quest completed...

maybe the reward for quests should be 1) increasing by number of completed quests, 2) quest difficulty and, most importantly 3) by universe rank. Give a top 1100 player 5.5x the XP u will give a top 100 player (would mean rank x 0.5 = quest reward multiplyer)

giving someone 5.5x the XP of someone else may seem like a huge difference... but keep in mind the score difference between top 10 and top 11 - 20 over the latest rouds and u too should see that it will not turn an insignificant n00b inactive into a worthy adversary just yet...

Artificial game balancing in a competitive MMOG is just a bad idea, full stop. For one thing - by making it a set amount of xp instead of a percentage you are already giving the top players less by ratio - this is a good thing. 20xp is nothing to a planet that will gain far, far more than that by attacking, yet having something to do will make the game more interesting for them as well.

Both Bixxard's events and race quests look lovely though. I especially like the idea of the choices of how to deal with the events. Sacrificing for gains forces people to think about what they do that little bit more.