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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 13:49   #1
All Systems Go
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Racism

I was just thinking and I was thinking that the methods of combatting racism are wholly ineffective. Basically they invove making racism 'socially unacceptable'. All this does is make people feel like they can't say what they want in public. But in private then a lot of racism can be expelled. I live with someone who is so obsessed with this that they say 'I'm not being racist but' even when its just giving a physical description of black person without any actual content that could actually be considered racist.
the same goes all forms of descrimination and I don't feel that this repression is a good way to deal with it. In the end it will simply lead to an explosion of racism (most likely toward the Arab communities or anyone who looks like they are from that area) when there is something to trigger it. If the stock maret collapsed or there was some big economic problem that happened tomorrow all of the scape-goating would be towards the 'immigrants'. All of the anger and racism that has been building up for all these years will just explode. So by making something of this fashion 'socially unacceptable' in public is simply a short term measure which could very possibly cause big problems in the long long term.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 13:53   #2
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Re: Racism

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Originally Posted by All Systems Go
If the stock maret collapsed or there was some big economic problem that happened tomorrow all of the scape-goating would be towards the 'immigrants'. All of the anger and racism that has been building up for all these years will just explode. So by making something of this fashion 'socially unacceptable' in public is simply a short term measure which could very possibly cause big problems in the long long term.
this doesn't follow
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 13:58   #3
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Re: Racism

I'm not being racist but is it true all black people eat is fried chicken and watermelons?

PS I'm not being racist.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 14:11   #4
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
this doesn't follow
If the country entered some economic situation where levels of poverty started to increase rather quickly, the poorest people would blame the immigrants. this may be done on their own or by parties such as the BNP. In their desperation people will believe this partly because the racism is still ingrained in society, it's just that no one talks about it.

I might shoot myself in the foot here but let's take a look at the areas where the BNP have support. Generally these places have high immirgrant population and poor economic situation. In these conditions racism can easily be spread. If economic troubles gripped the country people would see the immigrants as a problem, generally the Arab-looking ones who are currently assocciated with evil.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 14:29   #5
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Re: Racism

my housemates have had many a discussion about what you cal black people as they seem to take offense to it, saying why do they have to be labelled as 'different'.. true.. dont be racist.. but how do u describe it to the police for example...

man: "yeah he was a big guy, short hair, fat and a tattoo on his chest"
police: "we caught him, exactly how you described..hes in his cell you can have a look at if you want"
man: "sure"
later
man: " thats not him"
police: "why do you say"
man: "he was"... *whispers* ...."black"

end result. black man escapes, innocent white man jailed for a short time, and 'man' imprisoned for racism.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 14:31   #6
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniborp
end result. black man escapes, innocent white man jailed for a short time, and 'man' imprisoned for racism.
So you're saying that all blacks are criminals?

Don't deny it, KKK boy
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 14:33   #7
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
So you're saying that all blacks are criminals?

Don't deny it, KKK boy
what part of example did you not get...
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 14:34   #8
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniborp
end result. black man escapes, innocent white man jailed for a short time, and 'man' imprisoned for racism.
Damn police, always oppressing the white man.

Seriously though, how the hell can you construct an argument from a hypothetical case that you not only invented but actually goes against things that we know?
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 14:36   #9
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Re: Racism

this was an extreme example based on the possibility of pc going overboard
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 14:39   #10
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniborp
what part of example did you not get...
Don't backtrack now.

I bet you're the kind of person who laughs at RACIST JOKES.

An EVIL person.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 14:40   #11
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniborp
this was an extreme example based on the possibility of pc going overboard
How do you describe it to the police? Simple, you say in your description that it was a black man. Frankly, they'd probably be more annoyed at your inability to tell them something that's rather good at eliminating large amounts of the population from the suspect list at a single stroke.

Furthermore, you did not present it as "an example of the possibility of pc going overboard", you just said "how do you describe a black man to a police officer without being a racist?", which is amusing in itself given the findings of, say, the Macpherson report.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 14:44   #12
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Re: Racism

macpherson report?
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 14:52   #13
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniborp
macpherson report?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...rt&btnG=Search
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 14:54   #14
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Re: Racism

summing up....
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 14:54   #15
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Re: Racism

calling someone black is descriptive not racist.
unless you mean it in a derogatory way.
I see no way you could be called racist even in an extremely PC world. Unless he/she wasn't black of course.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 14:57   #16
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Re: Racism

yes but i know some people who find black insulting because they feel it implys they are different...
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 14:58   #17
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniborp
yes but i know some people who find black insulting because they feel it implys they are different...
if they are black, and find that being called black is insulting, they have rather large self-esteem problems.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 15:04   #18
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniborp
summing up....
The police are institutionally racist.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 15:17   #19
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniborp
yes but i know some people who find black insulting because they feel it implys they are different...
They are different. They have black skin. It's called 'point of view'

From a black persons point of view, white people are different.

From our point of view, you're different.

Everyone is different.

Calling a black person black is as racist as calling a white person white.

"Oh, yes, the one you need to speak with is over there. He's the person dressed identically to every other policeman so you'll not have a clue which one I'm pointing at. I wish I could be more helpful but it wouldn't be politically correct."

or

"Oh, yes, the one you need to speak with is over there. The black one."

Sure, I could have said the coloured guy. I could have said the one who isn't white. I could have said the one whom has a penis at least six inches longer than the white guys.

I could have said "if this were a movie, you need to speak to the one who dies first."

Black is descriptive. Not racist.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 15:22   #20
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Re: Racism

Im not the one you need to explain that to...
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 15:37   #21
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
If the country entered some economic situation where levels of poverty started to increase rather quickly, the poorest people would blame the immigrants. this may be done on their own or by parties such as the BNP. In their desperation people will believe this partly because the racism is still ingrained in society, it's just that no one talks about it.

I might shoot myself in the foot here but let's take a look at the areas where the BNP have support. Generally these places have high immirgrant population and poor economic situation. In these conditions racism can easily be spread. If economic troubles gripped the country people would see the immigrants as a problem, generally the Arab-looking ones who are currently assocciated with evil.
quite possibly yes.

but this has nothing to do with the present policy of not 'speaking about racism' as you put it
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 15:39   #22
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniborp
Im not the one you need to explain that to...
Is that because the "one you need to explain that to" is, in this example, an utterly made up person?
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 15:40   #23
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Re: Racism

Are you calling me a liar and a racist?
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 15:46   #24
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Re: Racism

I don't understand this thread. What are we discussing here?
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 15:47   #25
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Re: Racism

Jungle bunnies.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 15:56   #26
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Jungle bunnies.
tar babies?
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 16:04   #27
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Re: Racism

I'm a colored spade, a nigra, a black ******,
A jungle bunny, jigaboo, coon, pickaninny, mau mau,
Uncle Tom, Aunt Jemima, Little Black Sambo,
Cottin pickin' swamp guinea junk man, shoeshine boy,
Elevator operator, table cleaner at Horn and Hardart,
Slave, voodoo zombie, Ubangi lipped
Flat-nosed tap dancer, resident of Harlem
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 16:15   #28
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
quite possibly yes.

but this has nothing to do with the present policy of not 'speaking about racism' as you put it
Well it does in that racism is still flourishing internally in most people, they just don't feel able to express themselves. this in part causes more resentment about freedom of speech and all of that. My main point is that the system to remove racism doesn't really work, it just forces the racists underground, so to speak. It's kind of like painting over the cracks rather tha trying to educate people about why racism is nonsense.

Also, to the people sayying about not being able to describe black people as black. In this country it would be beneficial to describe someone as black as the majority of the population could be described as white. Whereas in Africa where the population is predominantly black it would be useful to describe someone as white.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 16:25   #29
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
Well it does in that racism is still flourishing internally in most people, they just don't feel able to express themselves. this in part causes more resentment about freedom of speech and all of that. My main point is that the system to remove racism doesn't really work, it just forces the racists underground, so to speak. It's kind of like painting over the cracks rather tha trying to educate people about why racism is nonsense.
you're not applying logic:

1) if there was some great disaster to strike society resentment against any minority group would increase. This is not affected by repressing racism now.
2) there is an ongoing programme to educate people about why racism is wrong
3) stopping people being racist in public doesn't make people 'more racist' but it does serve as a constant reminder that racism is wrong. thereby reinforcing the education that racism is wrong
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 16:41   #30
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
you're not applying logic:

1) if there was some great disaster to strike society resentment against any minority group would increase. This is not affected by repressing racism now.
the point I'm trying to get across at the momnt is that the relatively low levels of racism at the moment are artificial and that the old predujuces astill remain in a lot of people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
2) there is an ongoing programme to educate people about why racism is wrong
there are a lot of programs to teach that racism is wrong. I'm not too sure how many of them teach WHY racism is wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
3) stopping people being racist in public doesn't make people 'more racist' but it does serve as a constant reminder that racism is wrong. thereby reinforcing the education that racism is wrong
It could also reinforce the beliefs that freedom of speech is being impeded because of 'immigrants' who get 'preferential treatment' because of 'political correctness gone mad'. Although I wil concede that this may happen in the minority of cases.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 16:44   #31
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Re: Racism

There will always be idiots in our society until we figure out how to breed it out of the populace.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 16:44   #32
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
the point I'm trying to get across at the momnt is that the relatively low levels of racism at the moment are artificial and that the old predujuces astill remain in a lot of people.

there are a lot of programs to teach that racism is wrong. I'm not too sure how many of them teach WHY racism is wrong.

It could also reinforce the beliefs that freedom of speech is being impeded because of 'immigrants' who get 'preferential treatment' because of 'political correctness gone mad'. Although I wil concede that this may happen in the minority of cases.
if you stop reading the daily mail your problems will end
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 16:50   #33
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
if you stop reading the daily mail your problems will end
I really don't read the Mail. But too many people do, as well as the Sun and all the other mindless reactionary tabloids.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 17:49   #34
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Re: Racism

I really hope the government doesnt try to educate us about racism as according to them the only racists are white.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 17:51   #35
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja_spammer
There will always be idiots in our society until we figure out how to breed it out of the populace.

sterilise council estates?
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 18:03   #36
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Re: Racism

racists have smaller brains than black people
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 18:51   #37
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Re: Racism

what if the racist is black?
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 19:00   #38
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
I'm a colored spade, a nigra, a black ******,
A jungle bunny, jigaboo, coon, pickaninny, mau mau,
Uncle Tom, Aunt Jemima, Little Black Sambo,
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Elevator operator, table cleaner at Horn and Hardart,
Slave, voodoo zombie, Ubangi lipped
Flat-nosed tap dancer, resident of Harlem
'Hair'?
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 19:09   #39
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nusselt
what if the racist is black?


:sigh:
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 19:41   #40
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nusselt
what if the racist is black?

Black people can't be racist, silly.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 19:48   #41
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Re: Racism

I agree political correctness is ultimately deprimental to the anti-racist cause as it causes consternation amoungst people, and thus people get sick of this politically correct speak and normally revert back to racist speak to reble against the politically correct system, and often blame the other race in an indirect way, making matters even worse.

The best method of tackling racism is to increase understanding between people, and understanding about different cultures.

For example there's a lot consternation about what you actually call a non-white person. And after a while people get annoyed that they're not allowed to say a particular word, and social unrest is created and relations deteriorate. A better method would be to actually ask a non-white person if the word causes offence and if it doesnt, carry on using it. Of course how the word is used also matters. But essentially, if you're not being racist and you're only mentioning the colour of someones skin as an essential descriptor I can't see the problem. And as this method increases communication stereotypes will also be removed as you have a deeper understanding of other people from different races/cultures (more than one is needed otherwise one or more bad eggs often forms the stereotype for a whole race).

I used the words "black", "asian" etc in the same way I would use the word "white" if I had to.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 19:53   #42
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Re: Racism

We could start by punishing Dante
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 19:56   #43
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weeks
I agree political correctness is ultimately deprimental to the anti-racist cause as it causes consternation amoungst people, and thus people get sick of this politically correct speak and normally revert back to racist speak to reble against the politically correct system, and often blame the other race in an indirect way, making matters even worse.
or

or or or

the people who complain about not being able to say '******' and hate political correctness are actually the people who were racist to begin with.

but no. i'm sure you must be right. it must be the frustration at not being able to make a joke about black people being 'worse than them' in public that does it.

making people not be racist must make them racists. i see that now.

oh how wrong i was.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 19:58   #44
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Re: Racism

Why is it all black people are such good runners?

Because all the slow ones are in jail.

ho ho
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 20:05   #45
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Re: Racism

OK I should have clarified.
I'm talking about moderate people, who are not racist to start with. Who are told what to say by socially enforced political correctness instead of letting them find out what is acceptable for themselves. When people are told what to say they rebel.

I agree racists will not change by just letting them say what they want, but trying to force them not to say something isn't effective either. Only hands-on education works.

And I'm not arguing for the right to say racist jokes in public or anything. I'm just arguing that political correctness doesn't help anyone, because it's socially enforced.

Last edited by Weeks; 26 Feb 2005 at 20:24. Reason: Edited to make sense.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 20:09   #46
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weeks
OK I should have clarified.
I'm talking about moderate people, who are not racist to start with. Who when are told what to say by socially enforced political correctness instead of letting them find out what is acceptable for themselves. When people are told what to do they rebel.
that must be why people rape and murder.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 20:19   #47
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Re: Racism

Note the emphasis Yahwe.

Quote:
... are told what to say...
Rape and murder isn't the same as racism.
No, Yahew, I'm not arguing we should live in a society where there are no social boundaries laid out and you should find out what's socially acceptable yourself. I am, however, arguing for a society where there are no boundaries on what you can say in public as long as it doesn't incite racism. Where you are not 'forced' to say something, but where you find out what is acceptable by talking to people from different cultures.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 20:19   #48
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Re: Racism

the reason there are still undercurrents of racism is because there are still plenty of people who were alive when it was acceptable. in 20 years time they'll be gone, and it'll only be their kids who are grandparents passing anything on, and it'll filter out in a few generations.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 20:23   #49
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Re: Racism

Jesus, I just re-read my second to last post. Time to sleep I fell.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 20:23   #50
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Re: Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weeks
I am, however, arguing for a society where there are no boundaries on what you can say in public as long as it doesn't incite racism. Where you are not 'forced' to say something, but where you find out what is acceptable by talking to people from different cultures.
like england.
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