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12 Nov 2004, 10:55
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 9
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Sub ship Combat
Im not sure if this has been discussed somewhere already, I couldnt see a similar topic. When ships get sub'd and start shooting at my own fleet do I shoot back at them?
http://www.pilkara.com/bcalc/?calc_id=942452330
would suggest not.
How I would expect the combat to happen is.
Init 2
Cutlass sub the Vsharrak
Init 3
Vsharrak fire at Sentinel
Sentinel fire at Vsharrak
causing losses to both Vsharrak and Sentinel, not as the bcalc shows and just the sentinel
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12 Nov 2004, 11:09
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 95
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Re: Sub ship Combat
it's correct as it is, that's why subbing is so evil
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12 Nov 2004, 15:47
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#3
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Pedantic hypocrite
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Back and to the left
Posts: 1,488
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Re: Sub ship Combat
Subverted ships are invincible. But they weren't during the first 200 or so ticks, during which time a 'bug' completely ruined play for Xandathrii.
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12 Nov 2004, 16:43
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 9
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Re: Sub ship Combat
Subverted ships being invincible opens up certain exploits.
eg Ziks sending Maurauder to attack a target and Galleon to defend a target in the same tick means for relativly small cost of fleet you can kill opponent structures with no way of defending them.
Im sure there are more examples where the attacking fleet sends in ships to defend a target to deliberately have them subverted and being invincible.
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12 Nov 2004, 17:23
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#5
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Aria's TeddyBear :p
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rhode Island, USA
Posts: 516
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Re: Sub ship Combat
that was descoverd last round
last round u would attack with pirates
and defende with bucc's and galleons
this round its as stated above
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12 Nov 2004, 17:28
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#6
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Retired
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
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Re: Sub ship Combat
Subversion is the single most retarded feature in PA ever.
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12 Nov 2004, 17:33
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#7
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.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,382
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Re: Sub ship Combat
haha there are several other ways too which you can exploit this, ive been having fun wiping out silly defences myself because my target believes that extra defence that my own galmate is actually an allocated one heh
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12 Nov 2004, 18:27
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#8
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[Vision]
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 897
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Re: Sub ship Combat
Quote:
Originally Posted by lladroth
How I would expect the combat to happen is.
Init 2
Cutlass sub the Vsharrak
Init 3
Vsharrak fire at Sentinel
Sentinel fire at Vsharrak
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in reality spoken you could say that the sentinels don't expect their own ships (the subbed vsharracks) to fire upon them, and hence aren't capable of responding intime to return the fire as they are being shot in their backs....
+ its combats you could expect friendlies to make a "mistake" in firing and rather shoot down the "real" hostiles :P
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13 Nov 2004, 09:24
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#9
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Unknown Destiny
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 176
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Re: Sub ship Combat
As i asked in #support, they told me that in calculating battle, subverted ships are considered as frozen one, they don't calculate their damage neither on the enemy nor on the team owns them, they like fire a lot but on the sky.
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13 Nov 2004, 11:45
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#10
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Inactive peon
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
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Re: Sub ship Combat
Quote:
Originally Posted by x-dANGEr
As i asked in #support, they told me that in calculating battle, subverted ships are considered as frozen one, they don't calculate their damage neither on the enemy nor on the team owns them, they like fire a lot but on the sky.
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combat engine:
when a ship is frozen it is still targeted by other ships
when a ship is subbed it is not targeted by other ships
a subbed ship fires for the side that subs it
an emped ship does nothing
firing on a ship that is allready frozen will overside its status either killing it or subverting it depending on what is firing on it.
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13 Nov 2004, 16:18
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 9
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Re: Sub ship Combat
Structure killers and roid cap ships deliberately have a low init so you have every chance at defending against them. Sub'd roid ships dont cap roids, I think at least the same should be true of structure killers.
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14 Nov 2004, 07:38
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#12
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Unknown Destiny
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 176
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Re: Sub ship Combat
If it is like this, then Zik gets a very big combat bonus which defenitely mkaes them the strongest race in this round, followed by Cath, then Xan, then at last Terran.
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15 Nov 2004, 00:39
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#13
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pe0n
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kindom of the Netherlands
Posts: 1,347
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Re: Sub ship Combat
Quote:
Originally Posted by lladroth
Structure killers and roid cap ships deliberately have a low init so you have every chance at defending against them. Sub'd roid ships dont cap roids, I think at least the same should be true of structure killers.
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Subbed structure killers don't cap roids either. They do kill structures however. But I agree it should not be that way. Or there should be a decent way to defend, like there was last round.
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17 Dec 2004, 17:00
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 7
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Re: Sub ship Combat
Sub'ed ships should die after combat! So "hostile" defence is not being abused anymore...
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17 Dec 2004, 17:10
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#15
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Retired
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
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Re: Sub ship Combat
Or give Zik stealing ships again and let's pretend this subversion nonsense never happened
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I'd rather be fishing.
Utterly useless since r3
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17 Dec 2004, 17:15
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#16
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Forever Noob
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Holland
Posts: 321
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Re: Sub ship Combat
Quote:
Originally Posted by x-dANGEr
If it is like this, then Zik gets a very big combat bonus which defenitely mkaes them the strongest race in this round, followed by Cath, then Xan, then at last Terran.
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If they have help from people while attacking they are by far strongest, look at what happened here:
http://parser.visionhq.org/index.php...86c300e08100ee
A LOT of cutlass and privs, with a some xan m8s deffing, and some corsairs also deffings kills/subs almost any fi/co/fr/de that would want to def that person, thus making it an almost unstoppeble combo since the cutlass/privs can almost not be targetted, and subbed ships are invinceble. Only effective thing vs this a a LOT of thieves, but I'm talking MASS, and even then they suffer huge losses.
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17 Dec 2004, 18:21
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#17
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Diablo
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 27
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Re: Sub ship Combat
500k beetle.
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17 Dec 2004, 19:49
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#18
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;D!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
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Re: Sub ship Combat
Quote:
Originally Posted by zmeu
500k beetle.
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yea. That too.
Wish I could ever scrape together more than about 50-60k though >_>
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18 Dec 2004, 07:37
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 24
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Re: Sub ship Combat
always nice to see as being xan to get zik co inc, normally that wouldnt be a prob with having lots of lancers, but when some lamer helps the attacker by sending a huge amount of pulsars as def at u, u can hardly do a thing about it, imo they should bring back the dying subbed ships. right now its only being exploited
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18 Dec 2004, 10:03
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#20
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home wrecker
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The other side of the galaxy ;)
Posts: 1,041
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Re: Sub ship Combat
dying AND subbed? that would make them even more powerful.... or way too weak (depending on if you tweak dmg to compensate for the ships doing possibly twice as much dmg given they kill and the subbed ships kill).
get rid of subversion! you can't balance it. if you make the init late it's pointless if you kill subbed ships then cutlass say are killiong two ships one with the say pulsars subbed (they die) and 2 with the lancers the pulsars killed.
get rid of subversion!
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18 Dec 2004, 10:09
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#21
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: ******
Posts: 2,326
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Re: Sub ship Combat
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAdnRisKy
dying AND subbed? that would make them even more powerful.... or way too weak (depending on if you tweak dmg to compensate for the ships doing possibly twice as much dmg given they kill and the subbed ships kill).
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If you can make it way too weak or way too strong, then it may very well be balancable.
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18 Dec 2004, 10:34
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#22
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pe0n
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kindom of the Netherlands
Posts: 1,347
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Re: Sub ship Combat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
If you can make it way too weak or way too strong, then it may very well be balancable.
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good point
Zik is just a bit overpowered atm.
And subbed structure killers should not fire.
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19 Dec 2004, 00:32
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 25
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Re: Sub ship Combat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartje
when some lamer helps the attacker by sending a huge amount of pulsars as def at u, u can hardly do a thing about it, imo they should bring back the dying subbed ships. right now its only being exploited
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Yeah, its lame when people exploit it, they shouldnt do it!
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