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Unread 12 Nov 2004, 10:55   #1
lladroth
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Sub ship Combat

Im not sure if this has been discussed somewhere already, I couldnt see a similar topic. When ships get sub'd and start shooting at my own fleet do I shoot back at them?

http://www.pilkara.com/bcalc/?calc_id=942452330

would suggest not.

How I would expect the combat to happen is.

Init 2
Cutlass sub the Vsharrak

Init 3
Vsharrak fire at Sentinel
Sentinel fire at Vsharrak

causing losses to both Vsharrak and Sentinel, not as the bcalc shows and just the sentinel
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Unread 12 Nov 2004, 11:09   #2
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Re: Sub ship Combat

it's correct as it is, that's why subbing is so evil
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Unread 12 Nov 2004, 15:47   #3
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Re: Sub ship Combat

Subverted ships are invincible. But they weren't during the first 200 or so ticks, during which time a 'bug' completely ruined play for Xandathrii.
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Unread 12 Nov 2004, 16:43   #4
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Re: Sub ship Combat

Subverted ships being invincible opens up certain exploits.

eg Ziks sending Maurauder to attack a target and Galleon to defend a target in the same tick means for relativly small cost of fleet you can kill opponent structures with no way of defending them.

Im sure there are more examples where the attacking fleet sends in ships to defend a target to deliberately have them subverted and being invincible.
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Unread 12 Nov 2004, 17:23   #5
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Re: Sub ship Combat

that was descoverd last round

last round u would attack with pirates

and defende with bucc's and galleons

this round its as stated above
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Unread 12 Nov 2004, 17:28   #6
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Re: Sub ship Combat

Subversion is the single most retarded feature in PA ever.
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Unread 12 Nov 2004, 17:33   #7
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Re: Sub ship Combat

haha there are several other ways too which you can exploit this, ive been having fun wiping out silly defences myself because my target believes that extra defence that my own galmate is actually an allocated one heh
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Unread 12 Nov 2004, 18:27   #8
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Re: Sub ship Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by lladroth
How I would expect the combat to happen is.

Init 2
Cutlass sub the Vsharrak

Init 3
Vsharrak fire at Sentinel
Sentinel fire at Vsharrak
in reality spoken you could say that the sentinels don't expect their own ships (the subbed vsharracks) to fire upon them, and hence aren't capable of responding intime to return the fire as they are being shot in their backs....

+ its combats you could expect friendlies to make a "mistake" in firing and rather shoot down the "real" hostiles :P
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Unread 13 Nov 2004, 09:24   #9
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Re: Sub ship Combat

As i asked in #support, they told me that in calculating battle, subverted ships are considered as frozen one, they don't calculate their damage neither on the enemy nor on the team owns them, they like fire a lot but on the sky.
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Unread 13 Nov 2004, 11:45   #10
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Re: Sub ship Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by x-dANGEr
As i asked in #support, they told me that in calculating battle, subverted ships are considered as frozen one, they don't calculate their damage neither on the enemy nor on the team owns them, they like fire a lot but on the sky.
combat engine:

when a ship is frozen it is still targeted by other ships
when a ship is subbed it is not targeted by other ships
a subbed ship fires for the side that subs it
an emped ship does nothing
firing on a ship that is allready frozen will overside its status either killing it or subverting it depending on what is firing on it.
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Unread 13 Nov 2004, 16:18   #11
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Re: Sub ship Combat

Structure killers and roid cap ships deliberately have a low init so you have every chance at defending against them. Sub'd roid ships dont cap roids, I think at least the same should be true of structure killers.
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Unread 14 Nov 2004, 07:38   #12
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Re: Sub ship Combat

If it is like this, then Zik gets a very big combat bonus which defenitely mkaes them the strongest race in this round, followed by Cath, then Xan, then at last Terran.
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Unread 15 Nov 2004, 00:39   #13
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Re: Sub ship Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by lladroth
Structure killers and roid cap ships deliberately have a low init so you have every chance at defending against them. Sub'd roid ships dont cap roids, I think at least the same should be true of structure killers.
Subbed structure killers don't cap roids either. They do kill structures however. But I agree it should not be that way. Or there should be a decent way to defend, like there was last round.
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Unread 17 Dec 2004, 17:00   #14
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Re: Sub ship Combat

Sub'ed ships should die after combat! So "hostile" defence is not being abused anymore...
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Unread 17 Dec 2004, 17:10   #15
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Re: Sub ship Combat

Or give Zik stealing ships again and let's pretend this subversion nonsense never happened
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Unread 17 Dec 2004, 17:15   #16
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Re: Sub ship Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by x-dANGEr
If it is like this, then Zik gets a very big combat bonus which defenitely mkaes them the strongest race in this round, followed by Cath, then Xan, then at last Terran.
If they have help from people while attacking they are by far strongest, look at what happened here:

http://parser.visionhq.org/index.php...86c300e08100ee

A LOT of cutlass and privs, with a some xan m8s deffing, and some corsairs also deffings kills/subs almost any fi/co/fr/de that would want to def that person, thus making it an almost unstoppeble combo since the cutlass/privs can almost not be targetted, and subbed ships are invinceble. Only effective thing vs this a a LOT of thieves, but I'm talking MASS, and even then they suffer huge losses.
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Unread 17 Dec 2004, 18:21   #17
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Re: Sub ship Combat

500k beetle.
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Unread 17 Dec 2004, 19:49   #18
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Re: Sub ship Combat

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500k beetle.

yea. That too.

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Unread 18 Dec 2004, 07:37   #19
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Re: Sub ship Combat

always nice to see as being xan to get zik co inc, normally that wouldnt be a prob with having lots of lancers, but when some lamer helps the attacker by sending a huge amount of pulsars as def at u, u can hardly do a thing about it, imo they should bring back the dying subbed ships. right now its only being exploited
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Unread 18 Dec 2004, 10:03   #20
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Re: Sub ship Combat

dying AND subbed? that would make them even more powerful.... or way too weak (depending on if you tweak dmg to compensate for the ships doing possibly twice as much dmg given they kill and the subbed ships kill).

get rid of subversion! you can't balance it. if you make the init late it's pointless if you kill subbed ships then cutlass say are killiong two ships one with the say pulsars subbed (they die) and 2 with the lancers the pulsars killed.

get rid of subversion!
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Unread 18 Dec 2004, 10:09   #21
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Re: Sub ship Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAdnRisKy
dying AND subbed? that would make them even more powerful.... or way too weak (depending on if you tweak dmg to compensate for the ships doing possibly twice as much dmg given they kill and the subbed ships kill).
If you can make it way too weak or way too strong, then it may very well be balancable.
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Unread 18 Dec 2004, 10:34   #22
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Re: Sub ship Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
If you can make it way too weak or way too strong, then it may very well be balancable.
good point
Zik is just a bit overpowered atm.
And subbed structure killers should not fire.
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Unread 19 Dec 2004, 00:32   #23
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Re: Sub ship Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartje
when some lamer helps the attacker by sending a huge amount of pulsars as def at u, u can hardly do a thing about it, imo they should bring back the dying subbed ships. right now its only being exploited
Yeah, its lame when people exploit it, they shouldnt do it!
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