who's gonna be blamed this time

[Guran]

Rumad Rumad Rumad...
Haven't you posted enough in this thread already?

[kaos]

Originally Posted by Rumad

I am not a puppet and wa is at fault with any denial. His denial though is absed on the fact that soneone else logged in and I support that. I don't think he exonerates himself totally as I know him pretty well and some things can get lost in the translation - but I thin khe is reasonable in assuming that a admin would act (even just to change the pass) and that an individual would not act malliciously like they did.

no one is innocent here in all three parties involved.

FAnG members are most suffering in this - they are blameless and let all solutions be aimed at helping them out

Well, things didn't work out as he expected, but he still blames the other parties to a degree which is _not acceptable_ for someone being responsible for an alliance and for the guy who actually made this total thing possible. and i don't see a guy who feels guilty in any way for his actions (and if thats from translation, then there's missing a LOT from the thoughts in his language and the actual posts)
ofc nobody is innocent, thats not my point

Yes fang is suffering, but what about the other 2k players which gameplay was interrupted because of this action ? ofc its just the poor fang, but what about the ppl who launched their ships to attack someone, etc ? i think that are a _bit_ more then those few affected fang members, and they are even more innocent then any fanger, because they didn't have wa as hc. and if you'r hc ****s up, then you are ****ed up, whether this is because he has problems with securing his computer (and thus getting memberlists leaked) or ANY other stuff.
the ONLY reason to stop the tickers was the (non existant) reaction of nb3. But if the alliance decides to give someone hc rights ingame and then can't assure he doesn't **** up is ONLY the fault of the alliance (or the person giving hc rights to "such" ppl) or was the game ever stopped because someone leaked a memberlist or dossed irc or anything else ?

disclaimer; this post is neither directed personally against wa nor against fang as an alliance !

[kaos]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Noone is likely to read your posts if they're laid out like that. Put spaces in, and paragraphs.

AND SENTENCES ARE YOUR FRIEND.

!!!!1111111

[Lord_Thunderball]

Protecting max 150 people for losing roids/ships and having all other people suffer to prevent this isn't right. Ofcource this would be the Turn of the Tide in the war, but stop the ticker to prevent an allaince losing roids/ships, strange very strange.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by Rumad

Webbie worked hard all roudn - the alliance has worked hard all round and then in one moment of madness he did something stupid - but its hardly FAnG's fault as a group.

No, but it is WA's fault. Why work so hard and then go and destroy it all? What he did was very thoughtless and reckless, be it spurr of the moment or not.

As I've said before I do feel sorry for the innocent FAnG members and the player base as a whole.

Oh, and as an aside, I do trust he'll be deleted, he has obvious broken the EULA.

[NEWSBOT3]

I didnt act for several reasons.

1. Mit asked me to not use my admin tools for a week or so, and i agreed. Oddly enough, i keep my word. As far as i am aware Mit has currently assumed 'charge' and as such all decisions need to be approved by him, so no-admin could have done anything for some time.

2. Getting abuse from fang players all evening doesnt make me want to help them in any way, especially when i spent 30+ hours in the last week investigating cheaters, to get in return....lots of abuse. Someone remind me why i do this job for free again please?

3. Fang decided to try and basically blackmail Planetarion last night, by threatening to leave with all their friends if they didnt get special treatment (such as the removal of people they dont like, and being moved into new alliances without having to wait 72 ticks like everyone else). Personally i told them they dont run Planetarion and to go away, but i can't speak for what mit has said since. (see point 1)

Personally, i think FanG are entirely to blame, since they and their HC's were going into public channels and pasting logins to try and get closed. How they are blaming just one person for this, i don't know.
I happen to not think that ticks should be stopped either, but as point 1 says, i appear to not be allowed to make decisions anymore.

At the end of the day, i wasnt allowed to react, and i certainly wasnt inclined to break my word for people who are downright abusive to me regularly. Personally i think you should be blaming the folks that wont let me act, but hey, thats your call.

[Ohm]

Originally Posted by Hurragutten

There is only one logic outcome of this:

a) The planet of that HC is closed and deleted.
b) All FAnG planets that were kicked from the ingame ally are added again
c) Ticks start

The one that should be punished here is quite clearly the FAnG HC, none of his members.

d) All attacks proceed as they were

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3

2. Getting abuse from fang players all evening doesnt make me want to help them in any way, especially when i spent 30+ hours in the last week investigating cheaters, to get in return....lots of abuse. Someone remind me why i do this job for free again please?

It's a sad fact of this community that if you hold any position of responsibility you are expected to receive abuse. I am speaking from first-hand experience.

Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3

3. Fang decided to try and basically blackmail Planetarion last night, by threatening to leave with all their friends if they didnt get special treatment (such as the removal of people they dont like, and being moved into new alliances without having to wait 72 ticks like everyone else). Personally i told them they dont run Planetarion and to go away, but i can't speak for what mit has said since. (see point 1)

From what I read it wasn't necessarily FAnG (meaning their command) who were behind this. I'll let you read between the lines of several posts further up to decypher who it was.

Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3

Personally, i think FanG are entirely to blame, since they and their HC's were going into public channels and pasting logins to try and get closed. How they are blaming just one person for this, i don't know.

No, I'd say WA is to blame without tarnishing FAnG with the same brush. There are a lot of genuine players there. Ofc there is also Irvine.

[dabult]

*fluffles NB3*


Feeling better?

[Hexy]

Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3

I didnt act for several reasons.

1. Mit asked me to not use my admin tools for a week or so, and i agreed. Oddly enough, i keep my word. As far as i am aware Mit has currently assumed 'charge' and as such all decisions need to be approved by him, so no-admin could have done anything for some time.

2. Getting abuse from fang players all evening doesnt make me want to help them in any way, especially when i spent 30+ hours in the last week investigating cheaters, to get in return....lots of abuse. Someone remind me why i do this job for free again please?

3. Fang decided to try and basically blackmail Planetarion last night, by threatening to leave with all their friends if they didnt get special treatment (such as the removal of people they dont like, and being moved into new alliances without having to wait 72 ticks like everyone else). Personally i told them they dont run Planetarion and to go away, but i can't speak for what mit has said since. (see point 1)

Personally, i think FanG are entirely to blame, since they and their HC's were going into public channels and pasting logins to try and get closed. How they are blaming just one person for this, i don't know.
I happen to not think that ticks should be stopped either, but as point 1 says, i appear to not be allowed to make decisions anymore.

At the end of the day, i wasnt allowed to react, and i certainly wasnt inclined to break my word for people who are downright abusive to me regularly. Personally i think you should be blaming the folks that wont let me act, but hey, thats your call.

you are blaming entire fang for you poor lack of skillz in admin.. and i wonder just WHY someone so reliable has been asked to not use the tools given. *wonders*

Fang entirely to blame? arent you an non biased admin.. your opinion is not as an admin should be. You think ticks should not be stopped... in all these posts i dont see one person saying you did right... you were not part of the problem.... if opinions are flowing.. and i was admin.. i would have used my tools and deleted him then dealt with mit later. Thats what responsiblility is ..... being able to distinguish a real NEED to be dealt with immediatly... or something that can wait. hell even a planet closure would have been a remedy for the time.

shame on you. shame on the one that logged in. shame on pacrew there is no delete feature. shame on webster for having to resort to what he did and harming the alliance he worked so hard to make great. shame on spinner for leaving pa. shame on me for playing pa. shame on you for posting again and keeping this thread going of the same repetitive nonsence.

[I am Idler]

Originally Posted by Rumad

Actually yor wrong on several fronts.

Firstly you cannot hold an entire alliance to balme for the few elected officers. I assume you are aware that a membership is not responsible for the actions of a few like webbie.

I thought that the Officers/HC officially represented the alliance, and thus making a complaint towards the PA team = mc², and should be considered a statement on behalf of the entire alliance.

(I might be boobing myself off a bit as I havent read the thread, but hey.)

[HellKicker]

and so the intrigues goes on

[Embroglio]

If I had posted my login and pass in #support noone would have bothered to lock my account/change pass etc. does that mean WA has more rights within the game then me?

[I am Idler]

Originally Posted by Hexy

you are blaming entire fang for you poor lack of skillz in admin.. and i wonder just WHY someone so reliable has been asked to not use the tools given. *wonders*

the mob is unable to listen to reason and thus whining away every time mr NB3 might be using his admin.

I see it as a sensible thing to do to not use the admin until things have calmed down. Instead of putting more pigeon on the fire

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by I am Idler

I thought that the Officers/HC officially represented the alliance, and thus making a complaint towards the PA team = mc², and should be considered a statement on behalf of the entire alliance.

(I might be boobing myself off a bit as I havent read the thread, but hey.)

I think it's pretty obvious that WA acted selfishly, not on behalf of FAnG, and in doing so did FAnG (and the game as a whole) great harm.

Normally I would agree with you that the command respresented the alliance, but in this situation I wouldn't say it does.

[I am Idler]

Originally Posted by Embroglio

If I had posted my login and pass in #support noone would have bothered to lock my account/change pass etc. does that mean WA has more rights within the game then me?

"If" ?

If you dont know, how can you claim such a thing?

you win the great reply award.

[Embroglio]

Originally Posted by I am Idler

"If" ?

If you dont know, how can you claim such a thing?

you win the great reply award.

As I've done it before in #pa numerous times without anything happening.

[NEWSBOT3]

I'll let you wonder.

Frankly, i'm past the point of caring right now.
I put in a hell of a lot of time and effort for you people, and everything i do is wrong apparently. If i dont close random planets of your enemies just for fun, then i must be biased. Or so i keep getting told.

I'm blaming Fang because they are the ones that were (do ask around irc, as they were doing it) handing out logins to their planets in public channels. It wasnt one person, it was several, and at HC level too.
If that doesnt make them to blame, i don't know what does to be honest. And no, i don't think that because of the abuse of 1 persons account, we should stop the game for the other 8000+ planets affected by that.

But then i forgot, im not allowed to have an opinion am i, i need to just be a robot.

[Hicks]

WA in acting like a twat total non shocker.

[kaos]

Originally Posted by Rumad

Firstly I agree - webbie is very defensive - but teh amount of abuse he has probably got would you not be defensive? Also the fact that he has probably been mocked and belittled would make any proud person not take any responsibility. As a man of pride its a two way thing - it can make you strong, but when you are at fault its hard to admit yoru part - even when its proven because you have yoru pride when others begin to adct like fools.

The otehr 2k of players have to realise that while they are not at fault nor is the entire alliance of FAnG - these members have been removed from there alliance so a few individuals can gain from the situation. The "few" FAnG members are those that have fought all round to make the round interesting and fullfilling as you can get in a 2k universe. They don't deserve to lose via in game manipulation so teh few can gain roids. Yeap some will lose out, but perhaps if teh she was on the otehr foot and it was your alliance which suffered you should be afforded teh same treatment.

If NB3 had reacted appropriately simply we would not be here. As for the rest of the post people aren't affected by a leaked memberlist like they are being kicked from there alliance and denyin them low eta defence for there members.

Simply every alliance should act sportingly - if not they are as abd as teh individuals in this entre sorry saga.

No one likes rollbacks - but just rememebr teh shoe could easily be on teh other foot.

Well, exactly in situation like these you show your real character. and admitting mistakes when you get flamed for it shows your real size. everyone can blame others after he got blamed (thats how politician usually do that and you will probably agree with me that if an politican reacts this way, many ppl can't accept that, and he usually has to retire). yet i dunno how i would react , but thats not really the point here imho.

I totally agree, thats it a shit situation for the fangers, but should the game really be stopped for the pleasure of a few ppl? i am glad i didn't have to take that decision, because i dunno. on the either side i can understand the fangers completely (those not in hc ranks ), but on the other side i can understand the non fangers, who know got ****ed up attacks, etc very good too.

As long as you play with humans you can't expect ALL to act sportingly, because thats just the human nature (else the communisn would work like charm, but heh it doesn't because the human itself is a very unsportsmanlike "creature") , so you can NEVER expect thtat _secret_ information will not be abused.

and imho we would _never_ have the shoe, as i doubt we have many hcs who post their login details into a public channel, while still being ingame hc.

but i am neither against the tick stopping not for it, its a very tough matter, where any decisions should be discussed very well, to ensure that this will not affect the casual or hardcore player (and ofc not the fangers too ...)

[Embroglio]

Originally Posted by Rumad

No

He should be deletd

But if you were a HC should your members be negatively affected for your own stupidity and the lack of action taken by indivisuals in support?

If you're a HC you are so with the knowledge that your **** ups affect your alliance, no power without responsibility etc.

[Hexy]

Originally Posted by I am Idler

the mob is unable to listen to reason and thus whining away every time mr NB3 might be using his admin.

I see it as a sensible thing to do to not use the admin until things have calmed down. Instead of putting more pigeon on the fire

/me locks and loads.... *shouts* PULL.... target sighted... *BANG* thats what I do to pigeons.... fire just takes too long.

cause and effect... login posted.... admin didnt move.... scum player ooops some player logs in and instead of say harming him only with sending out on a stupid attack or sth then changing password... now that would have been funny.. but to mess with innocent gamers ... thats just not right.... cause and effect... i hope that person that logged in is handled with also... would be nice to know what admin has done with him/her because you KNOW who it is. anyways... keep flaming kids.. i am actually reading the boards for once.

btw *huggles rummeh*

[Embroglio]

Originally Posted by Rumad

You cannot hold past mistakes against someone, but likewise you cannot blame am entire alliance for someone acting in such a silly fashion.

Webbie should haev known better but teh members do not deserve to suffer for this act of selfish and foolhardy way in which he attempted to eb deleted.

Members of fang trusted in WA as a HC, they were wrong in doing so.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by Rumad

close the idiots then - again you cannot hold an alliance to blame for several idiotic individuals.

I've said this several times already.

Originally Posted by Rumad

Yes you are pressured, but you choose to do what you do - it doesn't mean you act appropriately here and please don't play the sympathy card - you did not act appropriately regardless hwo you felt individually - tbh I think you have said enough here to get yourself deletd from teh pateam and rightfully so.

You seem to eager to blame an entire alliance - perhaps you need a break...

I am aware that NB3 has received considerable unreasonable pressure from certain individuals who may or may not have been hinted at previously. Appart from Fudge we are all volunteers here, and if the community drives away those who put so much into it there won't be a game left for the irresponsible to have their power trips with.

[Maddix]

Originally Posted by Hexy

you are blaming entire fang for you poor lack of skillz in admin.. and i wonder just WHY someone so reliable has been asked to not use the tools given. *wonders*

His 'poor skillsz' are to do as he has been asked by his 'boss'?

Originally Posted by Hexy

Fang entirely to blame? arent you an non biased admin.. your opinion is not as an admin should be. You think ticks should not be stopped... in all these posts i dont see one person saying you did right... you were not part of the problem.... if opinions are flowing.. and i was admin.. i would have used my tools and deleted him then dealt with mit later. Thats what responsiblility is ..... being able to distinguish a real NEED to be dealt with immediatly... or something that can wait. hell even a planet closure would have been a remedy for the time.

Nice and easy for you to say these things having never been in this position nor having ever had any experience in anything like this before. It could quite readily be argued that a Fang member should have seen what his HC was doing, realised the implications and been the one to log in and effectively 'lock' the account - thus preventing all of this too. WebAngel claims it is not his fault that people used what he gave them to act improperly, by the same reasoning does that not also render NB3 blameless as well? You can either support one side or the other, ignoring facts in order to make your agruement for 'your side' is not a solution.

Originally Posted by Hexy

shame on you. shame on the one that logged in. shame on pacrew there is no delete feature. shame on webster for having to resort to what he did and harming the alliance he worked so hard to make great. shame on spinner for leaving pa. shame on me for playing pa. shame on you for posting again and keeping this thread going of the same repetitive nonsence.

WebAngel did not have to resort to anything.You claim that NB3 is keeping this thread going with the same repetitive nonsence...you have just done exactly what all the other "Fang Supporters" have done and attempted to blame others for something that is not their doing.

The ones posting their login information are to blame. According to the people that know more than anyone else (yes the ones dealing with the 'problems' that caused this) it was members of Fang doing this because they felt they had to resort to threats and 'sabotage' because they didn't agree with the recent closures of some planets and not others. Last I checked Fang didn't run PA, what makes them so special?

(Apologises to the Fang members not involved in anyway shape or form, but it would seem your alliance, or at least a good part of them and your command have let you down in a very big way)

Oh and leave NB3 alone fs, I bet none of you know (including myself) how much work he has done for PA, nor do you have the realisation to see past your own selfish existance at the bigger picture of things to try and understand him or his actions better. To be typically cliche: "its all me, me, me" etc.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by Maddix

WebAngel did not have to resort to anything.You claim that NB3 is keeping this thread going with the same repetitive nonsence...you have just done exactly what all the other "Fang Supporters" have done and attempted to blame others for something that is not their doing.

The ones posting their login information are to blame. According to the people that know more than anyone else (yes the ones dealing with the 'problems' that caused this) it was members of Fang doing this because they felt they had to resort to threats and 'sabotage' because they didn't agree with the recent closures of some planets and not others. Last I checked Fang didn't run PA, what makes them so special?

(Apologises to the Fang members not involved in anyway shape or form, but it would seem your alliance, or at least a good part of them and your command) have let you down in a very big way)

Oh and leave NB3 alone fs, I bet none of you know (including myself) how much work he has done for PA, nor do you have the realisation to see past your own selfish existance at the bigger picture of things to try and understand him or his actions better. To be typically cliche: "its all me, me, me" etc.

What he said.

[Shadow1980]

NB3 has been working his ass off for free and for the community as a whole. He personally closed many cheaters and I think he deserves a little bit more respect then some of you are giving him.
Imho he did exactly what he should have done.

[kaos]

Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3

But then i forgot, im not allowed to have an opinion am i, i need to just be a robot.

you should have known that before joining pacrew. or do you ever heard something against the creators from the pacrew ? those i heard stuff like that from weren't pacrew much longer, so whats your problem ?

[Norseman]

Originally Posted by Rumad

You seem to eager to blame an entire alliance - perhaps you need a break...

and you seem far to eager to twist the blame and turn the spotlight towards Newsbot3

[Desse]

Originally Posted by RealJames

Rumad! Rumad! VsN flamed us!

Webangel.. Think of consequences before acting. You always had a problem with that.

Too passionate.

[kaos]

Originally Posted by Shadow1980

NB3 has been working his ass off for free and for the community as a whole. He personally closed many cheaters and I think he deserves a little bit more respect then some of you are giving him.
Imho he did exactly what he should have done.

lo emp ;p

imho a multihunter should close planets which broke the eula ASAP (and the minute where wa posted his login details, he broke the eula), because an open cheater planets causes more damage then the "misuse" of admin tools in such cases imho. but i think its common knowledge that you can only get into pacrew if don't have you'r own opinion, and always follow the "leader"

[mens]

Originally Posted by Shadow1980

NB3 has been working his ass off for free and for the community as a whole. He personally closed many cheaters and I think he deserves a little bit more respect then some of you are giving him.
Imho he did exactly what he should have done.

well...he didn't only close cheaters btw..

[Petru]

Originally Posted by WebAngel

I dont expect some of the EET supporters to log in my account and use it to do the lowest crappiest and uggliest move ever made into PA.

Yes because EET have specially appointed IRC agents with orders to follow you into every IRC room on the off chance you might paste your login.

[Embroglio]

Originally Posted by Rumad

the entire alliance to suffer for a in game abuse is wrong imho....

Of course it's wrong, anyone suffering as part of in game abuse is wrong. Just as people blaiming NB3 after all he does for you ****s is wrong.

(nb: this is where a regular poster here would say something like "just liek uz sufering for fangz cheetz iz rong" which really shows how shit this forum has become recently. :( )

edit: ****ing shite ****ing wank christmas smileys, **** off and die karm :(

[Maddix]

Originally Posted by mens

well...he didn't only close cheaters btw..

Oh big suprise, someone having a moan at a multihunter - you aren't/weren't in the (ex-)#1 galaxy are you mens?!?!

You people really do believe that protesting for your innocence until you're blue in face works don't you?

[Shadow1980]

Originally Posted by kaos

you should have known that before joining pacrew. or do you ever heard something against the creators from the pacrew ? those i heard stuff like that from weren't pacrew much longer, so whats your problem ?

Remember there is a difference between constructive arguements and outright slacking off. Personally I never saw problems with the first one and at times it is even appreciated. Some people have a twisted view of the PAcrew..

I wish people would remember that a select group is working for this game for absolutely FREE. Instead of some respect and the occasional "thanks" they receive large amounts of abuse and flaming. Now that can be lived with and is a part of the job, in fact nowadays a part of any job where you have a vague responsibility for something.

But to blame everything outright on the PATeam/PaCrew/Admin or whoever you like to blame it on is just plain wrong. (Refering to NB3 here ofc)
Back off and blame it on somebody more suitable.
Like Santa, or the person who gave the forums such a hideous colour.

[LocknLoad]

Originally Posted by mens

well...he didn't only close cheaters btw..

I'm sure he did but some creative end arounds got them reopened

[Spearhead]

all a lot of BS - what if SwarM or whoever does the same tomorrow? we also stop the game, ....i'm appauled at all this shit....but hey what did you expect from PA

[I am Idler]

"I payed real money to play this game but the volounteer crew cannot be blamed".

so who do you complain to, really?

I should probably insert that WA is totally unknown to me and hence cannot be a important figure since I am all knowing

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by mens

well...he didn't only close cheaters btw..

Nope, the multihunting team close suspected cheaters. Some are aquitted.

Originally Posted by Petru

Yes because EET have specially appointed IRC agents with orders to follow you into every IRC room on the off chance you might paste your login.

It's true, it's all true. So many HCs drop their passwords irresponsibily that we figured this would be the best way to bring FAnG down.

Originally Posted by Rumad

If you accept a position it doesnt relieve you of yoru responsibility to act appropriately.

I think NB3's actions or lack of are stressed far more than the person who acted so irresponsibly in the first place, without whom all this would not have happened. NB3 was called on out-of-the-blue to react, he did not cause this.

[The Seal]

Originally Posted by Rumad

You cannot hold past mistakes against someone, but likewise you cannot blame am entire alliance for someone acting in such a silly fashion.

I do belive the rules of this game are shaped so that you actually do not have to interact with errors caused by players themselves. Am I wrong?

NB3, I do not know you, but thanks for helping out with making this game work !

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by LocknLoad

I'm sure he did but some creative end arounds got them reopened

Now now, that is pure speculation.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by Rumad

there are 3 parties at fault - all get equal blame

No, they are not all equally to blame. WA started this. Some irresponsible opportunist (who can hopefully be caught using multihunting tools) exploited it. The authorities did their best to react, be it satisfactorily or not.

[Hexy]

Originally Posted by Maddix

Oh and leave NB3 alone fs, I bet none of you know (including myself) how much work he has done for PA, nor do you have the realisation to see past your own selfish existance at the bigger picture of things to try and understand him or his actions better. To be typically cliche: "its all me, me, me" etc.

leave NB3 alone?... you have your opinion I have mine.. I will say what I choose. selfish.. maddix you havent an inkling as to me or my existance. You want to defend the admin feel free. Total denial of a bit if admin responsibility? If you choose to be dillusional go for it.

[Shadow1980]

Originally Posted by kaos

lo emp ;p

imho a multihunter should close planets which broke the eula ASAP (and the minute where wa posted his login details, he broke the eula), because an open cheater planets causes more damage then the "misuse" of admin tools in such cases imho. but i think its common knowledge that you can only get into pacrew if don't have you'r own opinion, and always follow the "leader"

0. Lo Kaos
1. I will not go into a long rant about it but the whole EULA is rubbish and not legally binding in any way. (Somebody studying contract law/internet related laws will be able to explain this in more detail)
2. But not even taken that into consideration: it is WIDELY known on the internet that posting your passwords of ANY kind somewhere in an even remotely public place is moronic. If such a case would be brought to court in this case WA would be the one who is responsible. Because he could have known quite well that this could/would happen.
3. So I still don't see how NB3 is responsible? If he was under an obligation to not use Admin tools for a week, then he should not have used admin tools. In any other case if he would have done, the community would have screamed POWER ABUSE etc.
4. Back in round 3 when I joined the crew myself I actualy had a major disagreement with the "leader" as you call it over some issues related to the forums. In my opinion not all having the same opinion only improves matters and as far as I know this opinion is widely shared. Nobody needs a group of people who only say yes and amen. So I guess you have a personal bad experience or heard some kind of silly story.

Originally Posted by mens

well...he didn't only close cheaters btw..

I think it is not for you nor me to decide if this was the case yes or no. But I know for sure that he acted with the belief these people where cheaters.
And since cheaters are scum, you delete them. Plus in any case this is not relevant in this situation.

[kaos]

Originally Posted by Shadow1980

Remember there is a difference between constructive arguements and outright slacking off. Personally I never saw problems with the first one and at times it is even appreciated. Some people have a twisted view of the PAcrew..

I wish people would remember that a select group is working for this game for absolutely FREE. Instead of some respect and the occasional "thanks" they receive large amounts of abuse and flaming. Now that can be lived with and is a part of the job, in fact nowadays a part of any job where you have a vague responsibility for something.

But to blame everything outright on the PATeam/PaCrew/Admin or whoever you like to blame it on is just plain wrong. (Refering to NB3 here ofc)
Back off and blame it on somebody more suitable.
Like Santa, or the person who gave the forums such a hideous colour.

Well, i _really_ have my reasons to blame pacrew, because the ppl who were capable of doing stuff, and who CARED about that game were either kicked or treated in a way which should not happen to ppl trying to do something for this game ( i think there are enough examples of this behaviour ...) and tbh i would have done much more for this game if some of pacrew wouldn't have so closed minds about pa. i mean if i look at the ally features, i dunno if i should laugh or cry, thats just ridiculous, i could do such a thing in 2-3 days with ease. but no, spinner and fudge had to do EVERYTHING themselves, and it was SO clear that this would end in a desaster. And i think i AM in a situation where i may blame pacrew for certain things (i offered my work to them more then once ....) and so i DO blame them and i wouldn't know whats so bad about that (because actually it is a form of criticism and i think thats missing a lot there [because everything is so "closed" to the outsiders, so the players usually don't know how stuff happens there, etc])

[I am Idler]

If someone would restore my forum/ingame admin I would be happy to sort things out.

today

[I am Idler]

didnt NB3 say that several individuals spoke with him regarding the mather? including several officers/HC's ? shouldnt that warant a "On behalf of the alliance" tag ?

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by Rumad

However the alliance cannot be blamed for the act of an individual acting callously and irresponsibly.

I have consistantly argued that FAnG are not responsible or to be blamed for WA's actions. Please read my posts.

Originally Posted by Rumad

WA Is at fault, but so is NB3 - teh simple fact is that neither acted appropriately...

The only thing that the PAteam could be critisised of is slowness to react. Perhaps there should be some mass-kicking protection.

Originally Posted by Rumad

They all reacted wrongly, but why should a war be gifted on the basis of one who logged in and acted so malliciously?

I posted earlier that I agreed that ticks should be stopped. Please read my posts.

[hook]

Originally Posted by Rumad

WA Is at fault, but so is NB3 - teh simple fact is that neither acted appropriately and I would webangel is in fact deleted for the actions. However the alliance cannot be blamed for the act of an individual acting callously and irresponsibly.

Unfortunately 2 wrongs don't make a rigth and 3 (as in this isntance definitely do not absolve anyone party.

They all reacted wrongly, but why should a war be gifted on the basis of one who logged in and acted so malliciously?

From what I understand NB3 simply followed an order given by his 'boss'.

Just the fact that this gave FAnG a big disadvantage cause of a fk-up from WA, doesn't mean his actions were wrong. They might be unfair to FAnG, but not wrong in any way.