someone care to explain... ?

[LEFF|pm]

I just got this Battlereport.

Two attackers sending 500 fighters and 100 / 150 battleships each. The fighters were meant to die, thats no problem, but why the Battleships arnt capping ?
Priorities for the vesuvius where ships/roids, for the olympus structures/roids

Only 7 roids got taken, 0 structures destroyed....


now im confused....

[Kal]

perhaps the capping is based on overal ship loss... not class specific loss

[LEFF|pm]

yah well... 13,4% of overall sent fleetscore got killed then... still doesnt explain why a) NO roids got capt ( apart from this 7...) and NO structures got destroyed although 150 olympus targeted them

[Kal]

i do find that with the prioriteis structures/roids i do less damage than with roids/structure.... bug?

[Morden]

http://cabeza.lockhead.net/index.php...nid=2095537793

is another example of the borked code. everyone there had at least 1 of there priorities on Structures of Factories.

[Leshy]

Remember that your first priority tells what 40% of your fleet focuses on, while your second priority tells what 20% of your fleet focuses on. The remaining 40% will always be on the lookout for enemy ships to shoot, whether there are any or not.

Losing ships causes disturbance - it doesn't take all that much disturbance to stop the 20% of your fleet from doing what you told them to do with Priority 2, especially if you've sent only a small amount of ships.

[Kal]

bottom 40% is mixed not just ships - as set to ships/ships u can still kill structures.

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by KalVirtus

bottom 40% is mixed not just ships - as set to ships/ships u can still kill structures.

"The remaining 40 % is always reserved for conventional combat and dog-fighting, even if there are no hostiles present."

I guess shooting structures is included in combat itself then, unlike the capturing of asteroids. Even then, with Mixed/Mixed you're already unlikely to shoot many structures, so 40% set to Mixed won't do much more either then.

[General Martok]

Originally Posted by Morden

http://cabeza.lockhead.net/index.php...nid=2095537793

is another example of the borked code. everyone there had at least 1 of there priorities on Structures of Factories.

NO constructions lost at all? with 2500 BS? Aint that a anti-bash protection

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by General Martok

NO constructions lost at all? with 2500 BS? Aint that a anti-bash protection

Am I the only one clearly seeing 4 lost constructions on that report?

[Kal]

i see em...

[Tomkat]

I think it takes about 500 BS to destroy a structure.

To attack structures you need the "special" ship at the end of each race's list: Olympus, Champion, Varanus and Stiletto.

The others are just horribly inefficient at destroying structures.

That's what I've gathered from seeing battle reports, anyway.

[gzambo]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

I think it takes about 500 BS to destroy a structure.

To attack structures you need the "special" ship at the end of each race's list: Olympus, Champion, Varanus and Stiletto.

The others are just horribly inefficient at destroying structures.

That's what I've gathered from seeing battle reports, anyway.

maybe 500 stilleto's to target 1 structure as they are fi class but i reckon the anti- bash rule is why so few structures were destroyed in that br
definatley a case of overkill

[General Martok]

Originally Posted by Leshy

Am I the only one clearly seeing 4 lost constructions on that report?

Oops!:eek:
Must have been blind, I only now notice those, same for the 350 claymores...

[Morden]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

I think it takes about 500 BS to destroy a structure.

To attack structures you need the "special" ship at the end of each race's list: Olympus, Champion, Varanus and Stiletto.

The others are just horribly inefficient at destroying structures.

That's what I've gathered from seeing battle reports, anyway.

no because I alone killed 5 structures a few days ago with 100 Olys and a few hundred Ves, the combat code is really unstable.

[turbulentk]

well well

2000 xan fr can destroy 3 structures
5000 zik fi can destroy 4 structures
2000 terran cr can destroy 2 structures
2500 zik fr can destroy 3 structures
1000 cat+zik bs can destroy 1 structure

all of these battles are based on mix and mix priorities

me <<<<<<<<<<<<<no understand

why do we have to set a "sux" priorities as structures/factories for?

but wait, the roids and hostile ships work well

don't believe pa coding seems theory, I believe in my eyes :/

[Razorback]

valid post leff ive seen the same in quiet a few battles.
I for my part figured there was something wrong with claymores.
vs normal resistance i.e, homefleet of antibs they always suck harder than terran bs. even if their costs and roid roid settings should make them equal. kinda dissapointing when you send 200 or 300 bs on someones ass and he "disturbs" you with about 150 cruisers and you get 5 roids.

Roidcapping and combattactics could have been a blast if they were balanced but now:

[Kal]

/me ponders the existance of agility and weapon speed

[General Martok]

I think it's time for some clarification by Spinner, maybe even a formula?

[Morden]

Originally Posted by General Martok

I think it's time for some clarification by Spinner, maybe even a formula?

You assume they know the information, something Im not entirely convinced, if they knew it then how could they keep it this way? seems somewhat counter productive.

Whats the point of having tactics if they dont work as soon as you get shot.

These tactics would probably work with Initiative based combat, but with everyone firing at the same time, it cannot allow a victor.

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by Morden

no because I alone killed 5 structures a few days ago with 100 Olys and a few hundred Ves, the combat code is really unstable.

Olympus are one of the "special" ships I mentioned. That is probably why you killed so many - because they are one of the ships that is good at killing structures.

[Morden]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Olympus are one of the "special" ships I mentioned. That is probably why you killed so many - because they are one of the ships that is good at killing structures.

yes and we had over 500 of them against your guy, all of them targetting structures.

coupled with well over 1000 other battleships targetting structures and the other 1400 targetting ships and mixed.

It should have killed a damn site more than it did.

[Synthetic_Sid]

I'd hazard a guess that Spinner's used his favourite trick of basing structures destroyed on ratios. Specifically ratio of (value of planet under attack)/(value of attacking fleet). And hence, because the attacking BS fleet was high value, the number of structures possible to destroy was low. Plus, of course, there'll be a cap on the % of structures that can be destroyed in a tick.

[Andy_r]

My theory is that structure-killing isn't meant to be a worthwhile tactic until nearer the end of the round.

I'm currently seeing 1 to 2 structures killed by players of under a million in value.

By the end of the round, I expect the biggest players to be 10-20 million in value, and therefore having enough firepower to be capable if killing something in the range of 15 to 50 structures a tick.

Would you really want a higher single tick structure loss than this to be possible?

Bear in mind that the top players will be confined by the 6000 roid limit, which makes investment in masses of finance centres highly attractive to them, even though they become very pricey.

I think what Spinner intends to happen is that the top players with 6000 roids will stop going after smaller people's roids and start concentrating on gaining places by going after each other's finance centres while the rest of the universe is left alone to go after each other's roids.

[Kal]

interesting theory

[Lockhead]

Originally Posted by KalVirtus

/me ponders the existance of agility and weapon speed

Nope. I dont think so.

[Lockhead]

But a good theory is what I think, Kal.


Sounds logical but wont happen, as in our minds we're stil all playing for ROIDS and not for killing structures.

[dabult]

The max capping of numbers of structures you can kill feels as low as 5 or 10% to me.
Just a thought.

[Tis]

Originally Posted by Synthetic_Sid

I'd hazard ....

dont do it sid! run! PA's not worth it!

[Masterplan]

ok then
ratio destruction on these then
http://cabeza.lockhead.net/index.php...anid=112174047
why did these structures die
attacking fleets were on ships/roids
both attackers similar size with same amount/value of ships

[ronnie]

Originally Posted by Masterplan

ok then
ratio destruction on these then
http://cabeza.lockhead.net/index.php...anid=112174047
why did these structures die
attacking fleets were on ships/roids
both attackers similar size with same amount/value of ships

isnt there still an element of random fire involved even with the priorities set ?

(not a response to masterplan, just a random wondering)

[G.K Zhukov]

I bet a cookie that the code is fu***' up.

[Andy_r]

We would see these sort odd results if structural damage was being calulated on whole fleet values, not on a per-class basis, so if 95% of your fleet is alive after enemy fire, 95% of your fleet aims at structures.

In the examples where large numbers of fi are combined with small numbers of battleships, losing 10% of fi but no bs would have its effect shared over the BS too - or worse, the 10% loss could all be deducted from the big ships, letting only fi aim at structures.

[Petru]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

I think it takes about 500 BS to destroy a structure.

There is no flat figuring when it comes to Battleships -> Structures. The only ships truly capable taking on the seemingly high HP/Armour value (even I don't know the precise value) of Structures are the specific special siege ships you mentioned.

Without giving away too much, an indication of this is it would take a single figure amount of Stillettos to deal more structurable damage than any Battleship in the game (bar Olympus).

[Masterplan]

got a new one for you
all but 750 of the claymore were on a structures/ships mission.
http://cabeza.lockhead.net/index.php...nid=1598313513

and this was all that was destroyed

[Leshy]

If I'm not mistaken, there's a hardcoded percentage-based limit on how much structures can be destroyed in 1 tick.

[Andy_r]

well, there's a simple way to check that....

Surface Analysis Scan
Reveals constructions on a target planet.
This scan costs 2000 of each resource.