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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 09:03   #51
Alki
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

the alliance tags have been abused pretty much every round since they were introduced, why the **** are so many people whining, its within the game rules, it doesnt break the EULA, its a pretty good/funny move to make this shit interesting deal with it
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 09:05   #52
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

1. Angels ally with ToF/VsN to hit Omen seperately from ND, Omen and ND ally to counter this block
==> Angels whines about Omen and ND allying

2. Angels merge with Omen in a desperate attempt to win this round after dying
==> Angels/Omen will whine when this brings ND and eXi even closer together?
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 09:11   #53
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by cura
1. Angels ally with ToF/VsN to hit Omen seperately from ND, Omen and ND ally to counter this block
==> Angels whines about Omen and ND allying

2. Angels merge with Omen in a desperate attempt to win this round after dying
==> Angels/Omen will whine when this brings ND and eXi even closer together?
its only gonna give them a 2 million lead over ND. and as ive been told on countless threads, score gaps like that are easy to gain so.....
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 09:19   #54
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

The point of the merge can't be to win.

The only reason for it's existence must be to stop an alliance of their choice from winning.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 09:20   #55
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
The point of the merge can't be to win.

The only reason for it's existence must be to stop an alliance of their choice from winning.
2 guesses which alliance...you probably need only 1
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 09:41   #56
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mek
2 guesses which alliance...you probably need only 1
Well if an alliance decides to target us, there's not much we can do about it except fight them.

So fight we shall.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 10:14   #57
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

I don't think shuffling 80 players into one streamlined tag in order to end up with a greater end score is anything but trying to win. Losing members on that scale doesn't really help an alliance (or two) hurt others any more.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 10:43   #58
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki
the alliance tags have been abused pretty much every round since they were introduced, why the **** are so many people whining, its within the game rules, it doesnt break the EULA, its a pretty good/funny move to make this shit interesting deal with it
Now we are waiting for the pro exilition propaganda group to start the inferno with bwtmc in the helm, so that the 1up group can tell them how they've never been stretching the tag rules themself. A good position to moan about exploiting rules.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 10:57   #59
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

actually, and I'm being completely honest here

there were talks in r16 when ascendancy tagged up their players to do the same things
I think angels was involved aswell then.. in all 3 alliances that had anything to say that round (ND, 1up and Angels I think.. not sure about Angels) there were people that wanted to merge so ascendancy wouldn't get the win (there were even talks about it with the other alliances on HC level)
altho then there wasn't a merging system, it would've required ppl to leave their tag and join one common tag.. so it's pretty much the exact same thing

only difference is it wasn't done because when thinking it over it was far too lame to get a win like that, even with the way how ascendancy got their win that round

but I guess some alliances just don't have scrupules.. I don't have an issue with it ofc, but then those alliances shouldn't make ND/eXi/whoevernextround look like the bad guys.. it's obvious who is.

edit: to post under mine: I'm not comparing Ascendancy to Angels/Omen.. I'm saying the other 3 alliances could've done same thing as Angels/Omen are doing now but didn't ..
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Last edited by cura; 21 Nov 2006 at 11:08.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 11:06   #60
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by cura
there were talks in r16 when ascendancy tagged up their players to do the same things
The difference is that Ascendancy didn't recruit them as they had been members for the whole round, just out of tag. There were no advantages or disadvantages being out of tag either since Asc never defended each other (nor organize attacks). As far as I know, people knew some of the members weren't in the tag, but still got struck by the surprise-fist.

I doubt it'd make any difference if the members were in tag for the whole round anyway, as most of the well organized alliances couldn't target us and that XP were impossible to remove, and of course hard to catch up on.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 11:10   #61
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
The difference is that Ascendancy didn't recruit them as they had been members for the whole round, just out of tag. There were no advantages or disadvantages being out of tag either since Asc never defended each other (nor organize attacks). As far as I know, people knew some of the members weren't in the tag, but still got struck by the surprise-fist.

I doubt it'd make any difference if the members were in tag for the whole round anyway, as most of the well organized alliances couldn't target us and that XP were impossible to remove, and of course hard to catch up on.
For what its worth, Ascendency most certainly did recruit some of those players.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 11:13   #62
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
For what its worth, Ascendency most certainly did recruit some of those players.
I think you're right actually. ChipZ^ I think.

Can't recall exactly who it was, but I _think_ it was him.

Did it matter though? If I remember correcly, we'd have won without those members anyway, the adding of them just gave us the lead earlier.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 11:14   #63
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Hardly the cornerstone of Ascendancy, he attacked the same* one guy all round!
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 11:17   #64
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

To be honest i cant see masses of difference between the Omen/Angels merger whose memberbases have all but quit, and now re-invigarating them and the SiN/ND merger few rounds back. Very very similar positions, and ND HC out here claiming to be whiter than white.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 11:23   #65
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
I think you're right actually. ChipZ^ I think.

Can't recall exactly who it was, but I _think_ it was him.

Did it matter though? If I remember correcly, we'd have won without those members anyway, the adding of them just gave us the lead earlier.
I certainly didnt say it mattered. And you had the lead for most of the round anyway. Like you said it didnt even matter that you had people out of tag, there was nothing anyone could do to stop you and no other alliance had the will to challenge you with xp play.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 11:28   #66
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

IMO - as a knight of the old code

WINNING AT ALL COSTS ISNT WINNING !

i accept some of the blame that mergers happen - we started it a long long time ago - but we didnt do it to win .. we did it cos us and them were drowning .. badly... it did propel us to the top but not to #1 or #2.

GET some morals people.... even if u do allow those *dumped* back in after 3 days .. thats still 3 days of hell for them.

GET some respect for your players ...

and finally .. just cos the rules say its allowed doesnt mean you should do it.


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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 11:39   #67
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Its a brilliant move imo. Not my kinda thing but still brilliant. Both were in no position to win and now they'll be back on top (For how long? time will tell). Besides that I think this is pure comedy. And the whining about it on AD just adds to me laughing my ass off.

Atleast the round got interesting again.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 11:52   #68
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReligFree
To be honest i cant see masses of difference between the Omen/Angels merger whose memberbases have all but quit, and now re-invigarating them and the SiN/ND merger few rounds back. Very very similar positions, and ND HC out here claiming to be whiter than white.
The difference could be considered that SiN were never a top ranking contender, due to alliance size, and before the merger, ND were only just hanging on to top 10, SiN were outside of top 10 (compared with Omen/Angels both being top 5). Additionally, the SiN/ND merger put them into 3rd, rather than first.

Ironically, at the point just before the SiN/ND merger, eXilition were second with 2/3rds of the members of the top alliance, and were about 20 million behind.


I would like to point out that although I consider there to be differences between the SiNND and Angels/Omen merger, I see both of them as perfectly fine, tbh. Good luck guys, but please do something interesting with your lead rather than only trying to ruin someone else's round (although that can be satisfying. I regret not giving NoS a twatting in round 13 ((((( )
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 12:01   #69
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwtmc
Surely it goes against the 'alliance merging limit' rule when they add the other twenty guys in three days' time..
Yes, but shit rules beget shit behaviour. The alliance limit is a perfect example of the 'whack-a-mole' approach to bug-fixing (or abuse-preventance). A problem pops up, PA team whack it with a new rule change, and then another problem pops up. Eventually we will end up with a rule which says that alliances can't merge at all, unless both alliance names contain the letter 'v', have no members in the top 100 and the merge can only occur on a Tuesday and we will still have people trying to boot their top 100 planets and changing their alliance names to 'Vangels' and 'Vomen' to qualify for merges. The whack-a-mole approach doesn't work because there's always another mole somewhere (often a very devious mole which appears when you least expect it).

Condemning Angels and Omen for 'abusing' the rules is wrong. They're working around a stupid rule in the only way they can. I notice that nobody is making much of a fuss about the idea of alliances adding players to the tag in order to win though, which is interesting. If nothing else, Angels/Omen have given everyone else an excuse to recruit for the win (and anything Angels/Omen can do, eXilition can certainly do it better).
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 12:03   #70
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

So is there any confirmation about the merge or is everyone whining about nothing like usual?
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 12:11   #71
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

if that's the case the starter of this rumour would be shitting his pants out of laughter :P

the omen's in my gal say they're not supposed to talk about it tho, so i doubt it's not true
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 12:17   #72
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

yeah i was wondering. Seemed like a big assumtion, and noone confirmed anything.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 12:25   #73
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

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So is there any confirmation about the merge or is everyone whining about nothing like usual?
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 12:33   #74
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

[00:07] <dopec> angels and omen down to 30 members
[00:07] <dopec> do i smell a merge
[00:07] <Ziw> nah.
[00:07] <dopec> would make them 160m

7 mins after it showed on sandmans in priv chan
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 13:27   #75
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
The difference is that Ascendancy didn't recruit them as they had been members for the whole round, just out of tag. There were no advantages or disadvantages being out of tag either since Asc never defended each other (nor organize attacks). As far as I know, people knew some of the members weren't in the tag, but still got struck by the surprise-fist.

I doubt it'd make any difference if the members were in tag for the whole round anyway, as most of the well organized alliances couldn't target us and that XP were impossible to remove, and of course hard to catch up on.
Reread cura's post. He's not talking about Ascendancy, he's talking about the alliances that were considering merging to beat Ascendancy.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 13:28   #76
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

well we'll find out soon enough since they'll have to start merge before end of week

if thats what they intend to do
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 13:49   #77
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
Additionally, the SiN/ND merger put them into 3rd, rather than first.
Actually if I remember right, you went into first but then got soundly twatted, losing 20% of your roids for about two days running. You then slipped to 3rd.


(could well be wrong, I don't have anything to refer to except a fading memory)
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 13:55   #78
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Actually if I remember right, you went into first but then got soundly twatted, losing 20% of your roids for about two days running. You then slipped to 3rd.


(could well be wrong, I don't have anything to refer to except a fading memory)
just checked back through past threads. the SiNND merger took them to 3rd place, no higher
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 14:25   #79
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mek
just checked back through past threads. the SiNND merger took them to 3rd place, no higher
Cheers, I really couldn't be bothered to go through the threads again after spending ages yesterday finding my own posts explaining Vengeance's Round 15 position when the "lol flak" argument got raised again.

I'm still fairly sure they got twatted though.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 14:37   #80
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Cheers, I really couldn't be bothered to go through the threads again after spending ages yesterday finding my own posts explaining Vengeance's Round 15 position when the "lol flak" argument got raised again.

I'm still fairly sure they got twatted though.
I'd say it was a pretty bad reaction from ND to not being even top 5. I'm personally against mergers, as they are simply a way of railroading the recruiting limits set by pa team, not to mention the profound political/logistic effects it has on the game.

Needless to say, I accept the merger regardless, just like everyone accepts the support planets rule despite it being uniformally terrible.

As for your posts justifying Vengeance's round 15 position, I've got them neatly filed next to "reasons for fighting the Iraq war".
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 14:40   #81
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Cheers, I really couldn't be bothered to go through the threads again after spending ages yesterday finding my own posts explaining Vengeance's Round 15 position when the "lol flak" argument got raised again.

I'm still fairly sure they got twatted though.
yeah looking back through the PA Wiki and Lokkens Logbook it seems people responded rather badly to that merger and SiNND slipped towards the back end of the top 10 over the weeks that followed
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 14:42   #82
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

TRANSFORMERS ROBOTS IN DISGUISE



They are both gonna merge into the CENSORED-Allianz
to become one big ass Peniz-Alliance

Who would have thought Dunkel was behind all the politics this round

(atleast that would be a nice twist)
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 14:44   #83
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
Reread cura's post. He's not talking about Ascendancy, he's talking about the alliances that were considering merging to beat Ascendancy.
I know, but I just pointed out the difference between now and then.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 14:44   #84
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

it hardly matters if they merge or not, they will still have the same command making the same bad decisions that put them in their respective situations in the first place.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 14:54   #85
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
I know, but I just pointed out the difference between now and then.
ofc there's a huge difference, they aren't even comparable (and I didn't make the comparison), I just mentioned ascendancy because they were the reason as to why those alliances considered merging back then
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 15:30   #86
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
I think you're right actually. ChipZ^ I think.

Can't recall exactly who it was, but I _think_ it was him.

Did it matter though? If I remember correcly, we'd have won without those members anyway, the adding of them just gave us the lead earlier.
I joined like halfway through the round :O

Im a dirty mercenary.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 15:53   #87
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoaT
it hardly matters if they merge or not, they will still have the same command making the same bad decisions that put them in their respective situations in the first place.
I wonder whats worse? A bad command or the idiot following there lead?
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 15:56   #88
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mek
yeah looking back through the PA Wiki and Lokkens Logbook it seems people responded rather badly to that merger and SiNND slipped towards the back end of the top 10 over the weeks that followed

SiNND finished 7th if i remember right
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 16:57   #89
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Where did all the Angels go?

Well Werewolf launched on Chronox so I'm presuming they are either some of the worlds most pathetic individuals by launching on ex-members who are just cast off for the sake of trying to stop another alliance and actually did nothing wrong, or they are all out farming people they kicked out of tag.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 17:11   #90
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Hey, maybe they are letting their out of tag members attack their intag members for high xp then let them rejoin.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 17:14   #91
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Did anyone even consider that they might both be out of tag yet?
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 17:16   #92
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by themast
SiNND finished 7th if i remember right
5th, 6 million behind LCH.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 17:19   #93
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

From memory, I am sure that the original idea behind the alliance mergers was to allow the smaller alliances the chance to compete on a level playing field.

If it is the case that Omen and Angels are attempting to take advantage of this facility? Then clearly it is nothing more than abuse of a system that was never intended for this purpose.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 17:27   #94
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
From memory, I am sure that the original idea behind the alliance mergers was to allow the smaller alliances the chance to compete on a level playing field.

If it is the case that Omen and Angels are attempting to take advantage of this facility? Then clearly it is nothing more than abuse of a system that was never intended for this purpose.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. PA team have designed the game in a certain way and we can hardly complain when the game is played in a way that we don't like.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 20:50   #95
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

It's normally about now that they move the game back in line with their intentions to piss everyone off.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 21:53   #96
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
From memory, I am sure that the original idea behind the alliance mergers was to allow the smaller alliances the chance to compete on a level playing field.
Post|Mortum and Vision were small alliances? Why did you not cry back then? Vision is nowadays a 70+ member group, split that in half, and deduct a few, hey, they were both fairly above 40 when they merged. Did they constitute as small alliances?
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 22:16   #97
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
From memory, I am sure that the original idea behind the alliance mergers was to allow the smaller alliances the chance to compete on a level playing field..
But no one ever asks the small alliances what they want and how to the game can be improved for them.
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 23:02   #98
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Its funny to see ND ppl complaining about bad political moves from Angels. If there is one alliance that is completely incompetent politically and completely unable to learn from previous mistakes it must be ND. How many rounds in a row has ND totally ****ed it up for themselves by inaction stupid political moves?
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 23:10   #99
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

2
out of 19
doesn't seem like a bad rate tbh
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Unread 21 Nov 2006, 23:13   #100
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Re: "Where did all the angels go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mek
yeah looking back through the PA Wiki and Lokkens Logbook it seems people responded rather badly to that merger and SiNND slipped towards the back end of the top 10 over the weeks that followed
5th, overtaken by LCH on the last day is hardly the back end of the t10.

We also had a few people leave on the last day "for fun" (Tearz is one that I remember distinctly) which could have made SiNND 4th, but it really makes no difference.
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