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Unread 12 Jul 2006, 16:14   #51
xtrasyn
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Re: Labour, Tony Blair, Authoritarianism and erosion of civil liberties

Quote:
Originally Posted by meglamaniac
...and they certainly don't have a retina scan.
Are you really sure?

I travel a lot internationally (yeah I´m so cool) and one thing I have noticed in the last year or year and half is that when leaving the airplane, where ther used to be open halls and doorways, there are now little gates with a sensor eye. I have no info on their purpose (we cruelly joked that they were either to be used as gas chamber or as a control booth before they would take your DNA by force, who ho so funny) but they do have a sensor in there that seems to be pointed at your head.

Apart from that it has already been established in most countries that everything that is publicly available no longer is yours. I know my english is crap and half of you did not get that so what I meant there is that your fingerprints are yours as long as they stay on your fingers - once you touched a glass they are free for the taking by the authorities. You must be asked to hand in DNA but if you spit on the floor it´s all theirs. SO retina scans are (if you ask me) freely harvestable because it was your bloody choice to open your eyes and look at stuff. In the US they are very good at bending these rights [ridiculemode] because that is where the antichrist lives, being the head of illuminati and all that [/ridiculemode].
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Unread 12 Jul 2006, 20:29   #52
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Re: Labour, Tony Blair, Authoritarianism and erosion of civil liberties

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
1. Where is it written that the ID Cards would contain all this data such as medical records, retinal scans, fingerprints, family history etc? Sounds like you've all just decided that's what they'll have.
http://www.publications.parliament.u...-45.html#j003s

Section 2

Do you ever (ever!) consider for just one second that we might actually know what we are talking about! (rhetorical)
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Unread 12 Jul 2006, 22:04   #53
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Re: Labour, Tony Blair, Authoritarianism and erosion of civil liberties

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
http://www.publications.parliament.u...-45.html#j003s

Section 2

Do you ever (ever!) consider for just one second that we might actually know what we are talking about! (rhetorical)
Well apparently you don't as it doesn't mention:
medical records
blood records
retinal records
family history


Oh, unless of course you mean the "may contain some biometric information" bit. That's a pretty big assumption to think it includes any or all of those - and even then it's only a "maybe".

In fact all the information contained on this card seems to be completely standard and is no more than could be found from a simple CRB check using a passport or driving licence as identification.

What a lot of silly hype.
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Unread 12 Jul 2006, 22:27   #54
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Re: Labour, Tony Blair, Authoritarianism and erosion of civil liberties

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Well apparently you don't as it doesn't mention:
medical records
blood records
retinal records
family history


Oh, unless of course you mean the "may contain some biometric information" bit. That's a pretty big assumption to think it includes any or all of those - and even then it's only a "maybe".

In fact all the information contained on this card seems to be completely standard and is no more than could be found from a simple CRB check using a passport or driving licence as identification.

What a lot of silly hype.
In denial is a wonderful place to be (sexually)

But I gave you the link. Do I have to help you read it as well???

(sound out each bit of the words ...)
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Unread 12 Jul 2006, 22:30   #55
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Exclamation Re: Labour, Tony Blair, Authoritarianism and erosion of civil liberties

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtrasyn
Are you really sure?

I travel a lot internationally (yeah I´m so cool) and one thing I have noticed in the last year or year and half is that when leaving the airplane, where ther used to be open halls and doorways, there are now little gates with a sensor eye. I have no info on their purpose (we cruelly joked that they were either to be used as gas chamber or as a control booth before they would take your DNA by force, who ho so funny) but they do have a sensor in there that seems to be pointed at your head.
It's probably just a camera... connected to a computer with some sophisticated facial recognition software.
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Unread 12 Jul 2006, 22:30   #56
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Re: Labour, Tony Blair, Authoritarianism and erosion of civil liberties

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
But I gave you the link. Do I have to help you read it as well???

(sound out each bit of the words ...)
Oooh yes please!

You have a nice voice
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Unread 12 Jul 2006, 22:43   #57
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Re: Labour, Tony Blair, Authoritarianism and erosion of civil liberties

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Oooh yes please!

You have a nice voice
I have a lovely voice. I consider the term 'nice' misleading

2 (c) is finger prints. That is unacceptable

2 (d) is biometric data. That is open and as yet undefined. It's unacceptable for that to be so.

2 (a) is photograph. I need a photograph to have a passport. but i do not have to have a passport.

These are all very important lines. Lines that we should not cross for no reason.

We gain nothing by giving up these private things.
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Unread 12 Jul 2006, 23:47   #58
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Re: Labour, Tony Blair, Authoritarianism and erosion of civil liberties

Another problem that has not been addressed yet is what happens when you lose this card. If you lose a bank card, it can be canceled. If you lose your ID card, then what?

First of all, the government are sure as hell not just going to say "oh ok have a new one" or that'd be the world's dumbest loophole open to card cloning. So instead, cue more interviews and more invasion of privacy. It doesn't take too much to imagine you having to be interviewed by a new government agency or the police, in order to establish that you really did lose your card and that you're not a dirty terrorist. Once again, the burden of proof is shifted to you and not the state, who by the very existance of the interview would be implicitly accusing you of attempted fraud.

Secondly, what about the card itself? Sure it'll have an unique identifier which can be revoked (at least I assume it will), but what about the data on it? What happens when - and it would be naive in the extreme to assume that this was a case of "if" not "when" - it is cracked? No encryption in the history of mankind has remained unbroken, and nor do I expect the system used on ID cards to do so. Any information stored on the card, and this will include at the bare minimum your fingerprint and photograph, is then accessible to anyone who wants to use this. ID theft is not a new crime, and this just made it a hell of a lot easier.

You then enter new and dangerous territory. You cannot be issued with a new fingerprint, or a new face. What exactly happens once anyone who gets hold of your card has the ability to pull these details off it? This is a question the government has failed to address, never mind answer.
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Unread 13 Jul 2006, 00:14   #59
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Re: Labour, Tony Blair, Authoritarianism and erosion of civil liberties

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
2 (c) is finger prints. That is unacceptable
I'm more concerned about the amount of ink used in gathering all these fingerprints.

I'm going tomorrow to buy as many biros as I can. I foresee a huge drop in supply for them in the near future. I'll make millions flogging them.
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Unread 13 Jul 2006, 07:45   #60
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Re: Labour, Tony Blair, Authoritarianism and erosion of civil liberties

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I'm more concerned about the amount of ink used in gathering all these fingerprints.

I'm going tomorrow to buy as many biros as I can. I foresee a huge drop in supply for them in the near future. I'll make millions flogging them.
Given that your post quality has now hit rock bottom I assume that you now also believe in jesus?
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Unread 13 Jul 2006, 09:04   #61
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Re: Labour, Tony Blair, Authoritarianism and erosion of civil liberties

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
It's probably just a camera... connected to a computer with some sophisticated facial recognition software.


Yes, well, that is about the same isn´t it?
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Unread 13 Jul 2006, 10:48   #62
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Re: Labour, Tony Blair, Authoritarianism and erosion of civil liberties

I'm sure Insurance companies would pay through the nose for some of the information that could be held in the central database.
Maybe a nice donation to the Labour party would get them access?
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Unread 13 Jul 2006, 11:04   #63
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Re: Labour, Tony Blair, Authoritarianism and erosion of civil liberties

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
Given that your post quality has now hit rock bottom
I've been aspiring to be more like you innit
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Unread 13 Jul 2006, 11:48   #64
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Re: Labour, Tony Blair, Authoritarianism and erosion of civil liberties

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtrasyn
I travel a lot internationally (yeah I´m so cool) and one thing I have noticed in the last year or year and half is that when leaving the airplane, where ther used to be open halls and doorways, there are now little gates with a sensor eye. I have no info on their purpose (we cruelly joked that they were either to be used as gas chamber or as a control booth before they would take your DNA by force, who ho so funny) but they do have a sensor in there that seems to be pointed at your head.
There are/where some frequent flyer projects which use retina/iris scans for identification. It is voluntarily and basically provides a "fast lane" for the people participating.

http://cbs3.com/topstories/local_story_019085447.html

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Unread 13 Jul 2006, 19:19   #65
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Re: Labour, Tony Blair, Authoritarianism and erosion of civil liberties

i just saw on the news this morning that 'the next big thing' is IDing people using public cameras by their "walking style" or what have you.
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Unread 13 Jul 2006, 23:10   #66
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Re: Labour, Tony Blair, Authoritarianism and erosion of civil liberties

Quote:
Originally Posted by acropolis
i just saw on the news this morning that 'the next big thing' is IDing people using public cameras by their "walking style" or what have you.
I have read a little paper about it some time ago. Its also pretty useful to spot a zombie invasion
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Unread 13 Jul 2006, 23:13   #67
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Re: Labour, Tony Blair, Authoritarianism and erosion of civil liberties

Quote:
Originally Posted by acropolis
i just saw on the news this morning that 'the next big thing' is IDing people using public cameras by their "walking style" or what have you.
A large proportion of your countrymen do not have passports. I do not see how you can mock my countrymen about not wanting to have to carry ID cards.
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Unread 14 Jul 2006, 00:09   #68
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Re: Labour, Tony Blair, Authoritarianism and erosion of civil liberties

Quote:
Originally Posted by meglamaniac
Another problem that has not been addressed yet is what happens when you lose this card. If you lose a bank card, it can be canceled. If you lose your ID card, then what?

First of all, the government are sure as hell not just going to say "oh ok have a new one" or that'd be the world's dumbest loophole open to card cloning.

Do you have any idea of how you get a passport if you lose one?

"here fill in a form saying you lost it"

"here have a new passport"

That's it.

(obviously i wont tell of the sercret magical things we do our end but still ...)
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Unread 14 Jul 2006, 01:12   #69
milo
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Re: Labour, Tony Blair, Authoritarianism and erosion of civil liberties

Quote:
Originally Posted by acropolis
i just saw on the news this morning that 'the next big thing' is IDing people using public cameras by their "walking style" or what have you.

did they mention using AI or neural networks? i hope so 'cause its the little sign of failure that means they're pumping millions down another black hole as another snakeoil businessman/academic sells them bullshit.
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