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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:21   #101
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
I guess TomKat is also going to chastise eXilition for the 200 ticks when all those planets not in the tag were, I assume, attacking.
Well I didn't join Exilition until tick 200 or so, personally. That was because they were deliberating over my application.

For all I know there might have been a few others being added around then too.

But they've added all members now, so why are we talking about events that aren't relevant anymore?

Don't turn this into an Exi vs 1up thread mazz - you're better than that
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:24   #102
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Well I didn't join Exilition until tick 200 or so, personally. That was because they were deliberating over my application.

For all I know there might have been a few others being added around then too.

But they've added all members now, so why are we talking about events that aren't relevant anymore?
Sorry mate, but why could an event from round 16 be relevant, and one from this round, 150ish ticks ago wouldnt ?
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:26   #103
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murador
Sorry mate, but why could an event from round 16 be relevant, and one from this round, 150ish ticks ago wouldnt ?
Because they fixed it within 200 ticks. Sure, all members weren't added. But now they are. So it's all peachy.

I'm not sure which event in r16 you're referring to, though?
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:27   #104
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Jeez - sorry mazz, but get over yourself. This isn't about 1up. Stop making it so. I'm not here to try to get some 1up planets closed.
If you read my post above I kinda did prove that this thread was only about 1up and it's tactics. I never said you were trying to get us closed. It was more a case of casting aspertions about our tactics and thier legitimacy. If you really thought they deserved it then you'd be campaigning harder for the reopening of the closed planets.


So, in short. I quote you making it clear that the thread was only about 1up and you had no other examples to draw from, you don't have a comeback of any relavence so you attack 1up for being a propoganda squad, right?

There are those among us who are having an objective discussion whilst others, when unable to back up a point, accuse them of "not getting it" , "being biased" and being "stubborn".

I am bowled over by your objectivity. You win a point for the free world, well done.
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:27   #105
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Re: Double Standards

How do we know all members are added?
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:29   #106
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Re: Double Standards

i really don't see how this thread cannot be about 1up
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:29   #107
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Well I didn't join Exilition until tick 200 or so, personally. That was because they were deliberating over my application.

For all I know there might have been a few others being added around then too.

But they've added all members now, so why are we talking about events that aren't relevant anymore?

Don't turn this into an Exi vs 1up thread mazz - you're better than that
How many times do I need to quote the first post of this thread before you will admit that you made this a thread talking about the double standard between exil cov-op planets and 1ups untagged members. You equated the 2 as both falling under the illegal support planet rule and wondered why it was that the exi cov op planets were being closed while the 1up support planets weren't.

If you wanted to start a thread discussing the general issue of support planet enforcement and whether or not cov-op planets should be closed, you certainly could have, but you didnt. You started a thread about the double standard between exil support planes and 1ups supposed support planets.
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:30   #108
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Re: Double Standards

The event where 1up have "hidden" their members, its round 17, true, not 16 ;(

but the same can be used, cheat is cheat, no matter if you do it for a round long life, or for 5 ticks, if you say attacking together is cheat when not all members are in tag, 1up should be punnisehd, as well exi and almost all the other allies should too
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:30   #109
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
I responded to Tomkat's arguments, in turn he told me that I just didnt get it, and that he couldnt have a discussion with me because I couldnt be reasonable etc etc. And now you enter the discussion to tell me again just how much I don't get it.

As much as I love being told im wrong and clueless, a discussion of the points at issue seems a more appropriate topic for a discussion forum thread then just how impressed everyone is with how right they are and how stupid everyone who disagrees with them is.
I'm trying to point how fallacious it is to say that you've debunked someone's argument. It simply doesn't work. The argument either is debunked or it isn't, and since this thread is still going, I'm going to opt for the latter.
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:33   #110
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Re: Double Standards

people are often idiots furball, just because you may have debunked an argument doesn't necessarily mean they are ready to realise or accept that.
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:33   #111
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
So, in short. I quote you making it clear that the thread was only about 1up and you had no other examples to draw from, you don't have a comeback of any relavence so you attack 1up for being a propoganda squad, right?
You aren't a very good propaganda squad, if that's the case. You're managing to paint 1up in a very bad light here, defending yourselves stubbornly against an imaginary onslaught of accusations

You should have left the "1up aspect" alone, as most other people have managed to do, and discuss the rules about support planets. This thread and any positive impact it could have had on the game and a possible rule change (or clarification) has been ruined by you lot harping on about how 1up are innocent (innocent of what, I don't know).

At least we got those scanner/covop planets reopened, anyway
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:34   #112
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Well I didn't join Exilition until tick 200 or so, personally. That was because they were deliberating over my application.

For all I know there might have been a few others being added around then too.
That must be it, it wasn't that they were adding planets to tag as required whilst they were still attacking with the alliance. How can I argue against that logic? How about if I tell you we had 10 recruits lined up waiting for the vote from HC? Would that make you feel better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
But they've added all members now, so why are we talking about events that aren't relevant anymore?
And you can state without any doubt that there aren't another 10-20 planets not in tag attacking with eXilition, or any other alliance for that matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Don't turn this into an Exi vs 1up thread mazz - you're better than that
I wasn't. I was pointing out the ****ing gaping whole in your whole argument by applying it to someone else. Look, Escape cheating too!

Evidently the account sharing accusations agaisnt eXilition for PA planets were misplaced. Seems Max, or someone of his ilk, has access to your forums account given that this level of rubbish has rarely been spouted outside one of his posts.
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Quote:
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:35   #113
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Re: Double Standards

Besides I like how I'm being told what the intentions of this thread are, even though I've repeatedly tried to tell people what the intention was.

But of course.

You know better than me why I wrote that first post! Obviously!
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:37   #114
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
You aren't a very good propaganda squad, if that's the case. You're managing to paint 1up in a very bad light here, defending yourselves stubbornly against an imaginary onslaught of accusations

You should have left the "1up aspect" alone, as most other people have managed to do, and discuss the rules about support planets. This thread and any positive impact it could have had on the game and a possible rule change (or clarification) has been ruined by you lot harping on about how 1up are innocent (innocent of what, I don't know).
No-one has said 1up are innocent of anything. People are rubbishing your claim that the closed planets and 1up members not being in tag are the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
At least we got those scanner/covop planets reopened, anyway
Not all of them.
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:39   #115
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Even though it's written by my forum account using very specific wording I meant soemthing totally different to whatever it is you think because whatever it is you think I meant makes me look an idiot so I'll backtrack for the rest of the thread in the hope to divert everything
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:39   #116
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
I'm trying to point how fallacious it is to say that you've debunked someone's argument. It simply doesn't work. The argument either is debunked or it isn't, and since this thread is still going, I'm going to opt for the latter.
A statement of opinion cant be fallacious furball. Saying that I think Tomkat's argument was thoroughly debunked isnt a logical argument.

Whether or not an argument has been debunked is a judgement call, not an objective fact by the way.

And I think its inventive that you propose we take any continued posting on this thread as proof that certain arguments were wrong.
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:44   #117
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
You aren't a very good propaganda squad, if that's the case. You're managing to paint 1up in a very bad light here, defending yourselves stubbornly against an imaginary onslaught of accusations

You should have left the "1up aspect" alone, as most other people have managed to do, and discuss the rules about support planets. This thread and any positive impact it could have had on the game and a possible rule change (or clarification) has been ruined by you lot harping on about how 1up are innocent (innocent of what, I don't know).

At least we got those scanner/covop planets reopened, anyway
This thread isnt about a possible rule change, it is about a double standard you see between the treatment of exil cov op taggers and untagged 1up planets who you both argue are in equal violation of the support planet rules.

Thats why you named it "Double Standard" and not "How are support planets defined"
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:44   #118
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
A statement of opinion cant be fallacious furball. Saying that I think Tomkat's argument was thoroughly debunked isnt a logical argument.

Whether or not an argument has been debunked is a judgement call, not an objective fact by the way.
You were stating it as an objective fact.

Quote:
And then when people debunk your argument
Like so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
And I think its inventive that you propose we take any continued posting on this thread as proof that certain arguments were wrong.
I didn't say that I said that if an argument continues, then it's probably not been solved. An argument may be wrong, but the argument can still continue despite that.
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:46   #119
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome
i really don't see how this thread cannot be about 1up
It will refer to 1up because they are the prominent alliance in ducking and diving around this rule. But the absurdity of the rule applies to everyone so it's not about 1up, really. To me to harness the support planets rule you have to be clever and articulate and 1up are both of those things. It's here where double standards arise; because if you aren't clever or articulate you could be closed for something when someone who talked their way out of it or saw it in their own specific way as not being support didn't get closed despite playing in the exact same way.

The obvious example is Sid's claim that there were only up to 60 1up players all round and he just filled his alliance with 'ballast' of ex members and inactives. To me that was being pretty creative/misleading, as that 'ballast' was all about keeping up the charade so potentially, there's support somewhere along the line. Sid's definition of member was actually irrelevant - with tags, if you're in the tag you're a member added in your arbiter or not.

For me there is one obvious solution: get rid of visible alliance score altogether, only reveal it at the end of the round and let paranoia do the rest. Then no one will give a rats arse about who's in or out of tag and thus will want to hit whoever they think is winning,
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:46   #120
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Re: Double Standards

Clearly your real disagreement is with yourself. So why dont we all let the Tomkat who wants to talk about 1up/exil double standards and the Tomkat who doesnt want to talk about alliances at all to argue this point into the ground.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Besides I like how I'm being told what the intentions of this thread are, even though I've repeatedly tried to tell people what the intention was.

But of course.

You know better than me why I wrote that first post! Obviously!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
If we look on the alliance page, we can see quite clearly 1up's number of members in tag: 55.

Now if we go into 1up's public channel (#public) then we can see the topic: 1up Round 18 Recruitment: Closed

Now unless 1up are playing a similar round to the one a few rounds back where they promised to win on a 66% memberbase compared to other alliances (and managed it too) then it seems we have a significant number of their members out of tag.

Now that's fine.

They did it last round.

It'll be done in the future too, I expect.

It's perfectly legitimate.



My concerns arise from the closing of a number of scanners/covoppers though. They were closed because of "persistent covert opping of 1up planets".

These planets were playing for themselves or friends, and weren't in a tag. Yet because they were deemed to be "support planets" because they happened to covert op 1up one too many times, they were closed.

If these were the rules and this was consistent, I (and I'm sure a lot of others) wouldn't mind. It'd be just and fair.



Yet why are 1up allowed to keep these support planets in tow that they haven't added to their tag, when these scanners/covoppers are closed for doing nothing more than targetting one alliance a bit more than others?

It seems like "one rule for 1up, one for everyone else" really
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:50   #121
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
It will refer to 1up because they are the prominent alliance in ducking and diving around this rule. But the absurdity of the rule applies to everyone so it's not about 1up, really. To me to harness the support planets rule you have to be clever and articulate and 1up are both of those things.
Given that it names us specifically and not singled out as part of a group then it can only be a heavy insinuation that we are "getting away with it" when coupled with the title of the thread. I pointed out several instances of other alliances following the same sort of pattern and these were duly countered with weak arguments about pending applications for recruitment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken

For me there is one obvious solution: get rid of visible alliance score altogether, only reveal it at the end of the round and let paranoia do the rest. Then no one will give a rats arse about who's in or out of tag and thus will want to hit whoever they think is winning,
Here, here.

Let's rely on good old intel to come up with an "enemy's" score and strength.
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:50   #122
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
You were stating it as an objective fact.
Yes, I was stating as objective fact that I think his argument was debunked.

I was not arguing that I could empirically prove his argument was debunked. I certainly said nothing of the sort and I cant imagine why you would interpret it that way since nobody could possibly ever prove empirically whether an argument was debunked.

Quote:
I didn't say that I said that if an argument continues, then it's probably not been solved. An argument may be wrong, but the argument can still continue despite that.
Arguments arent solved. Whether or not an argument ends has nothing to do with the validity of the various arguments involved.
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:57   #123
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokken
For me there is one obvious solution: get rid of visible alliance score altogether, only reveal it at the end of the round and let paranoia do the rest. Then no one will give a rats arse about who's in or out of tag and thus will want to hit whoever they think is winning
Couldnt agree more.

This thread has shown one thing.

Paranoid people play planetarion.
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:58   #124
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
For me there is one obvious solution: get rid of visible alliance score altogether, only reveal it at the end of the round and let paranoia do the rest. Then no one will give a rats arse about who's in or out of tag and thus will want to hit whoever they think is winning,

hey hey, I loved this idea
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 00:04   #125
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Re: Double Standards

So, about the covert op planets which got closed,

From what I've heard they got closed for cov-opping planets from a certain alliance. They were outside a tag and directed around 50% of their hostile actions towards coords of that alliance.
Fair enough, I can see how people could see this as being support planets, however there can be a legion of reason to do this.
Is that enough evidence for closure?

Also, in the later stages of the round, let's say an alliance kicks his scanners to make room for 'real' planets. I doubt the scanners will stop scanning for that ally.
Will they be counted as support planets and be closed too then? Since if I recall correctly this was allowed last round?

[edit]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
For me there is one obvious solution: get rid of visible alliance score altogether, only reveal it at the end of the round and let paranoia do the rest. Then no one will give a rats arse about who's in or out of tag and thus will want to hit whoever they think is winning,
I like this suggestion!

Last edited by Stoom; 24 Jul 2006 at 00:10.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 00:17   #126
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
Yes, I was stating as objective fact that I think his argument was debunked.

I was not arguing that I could empirically prove his argument was debunked. I certainly said nothing of the sort and I cant imagine why you would interpret it that way since nobody could possibly ever prove empirically whether an argument was debunked.
A definition of objective:
"undistorted by emotion or personal bias; based on observable phenomena; "an objective appraisal"; "objective evidence""

A definition of empirical:
"Based on experiment and observation, or based entirely on practical experience."

The two are not separate. Saying that something is objective but not empirically provable is like saying that a cow is a cow but you can't prove that it is.

You're being subjective, we all are - unless you're trying to tell us that you're "undistorted by emotion or personal bias". In which case - pull the other one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
Arguments arent solved. Whether or not an argument ends has nothing to do with the validity of the various arguments involved.
You'll have to forgive me for not finding the perfect word: solved was not the right one.

How else do you determine when an argument ends, unless you base it on one of the sides giving up (for whatever reason - laziness or obvious defeat)? If the argument's still going then they usually still have something to argue about.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 00:29   #127
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Re: Double Standards

all this thread is about is exi trying to find a way to outdo 1up. just coz exi were found "cheating" they try and do the same to 1up, its just laughable
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 00:30   #128
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Re: Double Standards

Exi found cheating how, LiNoGe?
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 00:31   #129
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
Here, here.
out of genuine curiosity, is this actually meant to be "hear hear" or "here here", i've seen both posted on various forums and i demand clarification!
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 00:31   #130
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
The two are not separate. Saying that something is objective but not empirically provable is like saying that a cow is a cow but you can't prove that it is.
I NEVER SAID IT WAS OBJECTIVE, EVER

It is by definition subjective, that is why I didnt need to specify my subjectivity on the outset and why it is absolutely ludacris for you to think that I ever meant it was some objective truth.

Quote:
You'll have to forgive me for not finding the perfect word: solved was not the right one.
Arguments can have any number of resolutions, and the resolution is not dependent on the validity of any of the arguments involved and thus isnt evidence of the validity of any of the arguments involved.

Quote:
How else do you determine when an argument ends, unless you base it on one of the sides giving up (for whatever reason - laziness or obvious defeat)? If the argument's still going then they usually still have something to argue about.
Just because two people are arguing doesnt tell us anything about the validity of thier arguments. You have to actually look at the argument to do gauge that.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 00:37   #131
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
I NEVER SAID IT WAS OBJECTIVE, EVER

It is by definition subjective, that is why I didnt need to specify my subjectivity on the outset and why it is absolutely ludacris for you to think that I ever meant it was some objective truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
Yes, I was stating as objective fact that I think his argument was debunked.
You sure?
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 00:45   #132
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
Exi found cheating how, LiNoGe?
if they wasnt found cheating then why did loads of there planets get closed for??
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 00:45   #133
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Jeez - sorry mazz, but get over yourself. This isn't about 1up. Stop making it so. I'm not here to try to get some 1up planets closed.

I'd never realised how completely frustrating it is trying to have a decent objective discussion with 1uppers before. You're all (from my experience in this thread) hideously stubborn and have to turn every post into some sort of personal attack.

No wonder AD is dominated by 1up. Everyone else gives up talking to the brick walls
Heh, that is the kind of sentiment I get from posting things about Christianity on GD.

Seriously you should read this thread about not tagging up and the alliance score:

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...1&postcount=30

The point you are trying to make has already been decided upon by PAteam. Planets not in tag are allowed to attack with planets in tag but they are not allowed to defend or be defended on a regular and consistant basis. It's ok if they send or are sent defense once in a while but not consistantly and the out of tag planet cannot be soley used for defensive purposes such as only having ships used for defense and no pods.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 00:48   #134
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linoge
if they wasnt found cheating then why did loads of there planets get closed for??
It's like being arrested but not charged with a crime.


Not guilty, etc.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 00:51   #135
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
For someone who made a snide comment about me not reading posts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
Yes, I was stating as objective fact that I think his argument was debunked.
Furball, I dont know what to tell you. When I stated that tk's argument had been debunked I was clearly expressing a subjective judgement. I cant begin to understand how you interpreted it as an attempt to logically prove something.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 00:56   #136
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
Furball, I dont know what to tell you. When I stated that tk's argument had been debunked I was clearly expressing a subjective judgement. I cant begin to understand how you interpreted it as an attempt to logically prove something.
We don't have proper [sarcasm] tags here, so seeing you post one thing and then finding out you meant another can be a bit of a suprise!
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 01:02   #137
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Re: Double Standards

Paging K-W and furball to arguing about arguing thread 191717
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 01:03   #138
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
We don't have proper [sarcasm] tags here, so seeing you post one thing and then finding out you meant another can be a bit of a suprise!
Try reading it again, this time focus on the words I bolded in my last post. It does not say what you think it says.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 01:08   #139
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W - pre-edit lol
I said it was an objective fact that I think it. Not that what I think is an objective fact.
No, you said that I said that you said that I said that you said that it was an objective fact blah blah blah for the love of god shoot me now



We're just getting into pointless seminatics that only serve to shorten our lives and fill them with meaningless shite. Suffice it to say your post created the impression that you believed that you'd debunked Tomkat's argument. You can throw all the qualifiers you want to into your sentences, but it's all about the impression that's created - and from a highly-rated poster such as yourself, I'm sure it can't be unintentional.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 01:17   #140
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Suffice it to say your post created the impression that you believed that you'd debunked Tomkat's argument. You can throw all the qualifiers you want to into your sentences, but it's all about the impression that's created - and from a highly-rated poster such as yourself, I'm sure it can't be unintentional.
Of course I believed Tomkats argument had been debunked. I still believe it has been debunked. Im actually quite sure of it.

Feel free to disagree, but if you use the term fallacious wrong I might just point it out.

On Edit: By the way I edited for clarity. And I dont know why you are laughing since either way it points out your misreading.
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Last edited by K-W; 24 Jul 2006 at 01:26.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 01:17   #141
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Re: Double Standards

If i decided to cov-op one alliance during the whole round, i would be closed for cheating?
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 01:22   #142
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
If i decided to cov-op one alliance during the whole round, i would be closed for cheating?
If you did so completely independently of any other alliance, you arent a support planet. Its your relationship with the alliance you are/aren't supporting that determines that.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 01:27   #143
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
If you did so completely independently of any other alliance, you arent a support planet. Its your relationship with the alliance you are/aren't supporting that determines that.
I have been in several alliances during the past rounds. I have always fought against one particular alliance that i dislike. I want to cov op them 100% of the time, and i go and get their coords from other alliances. Who am i supporting?
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 01:44   #144
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
I have been in several alliances during the past rounds. I have always fought against one particular alliance that i dislike. I want to cov op them 100% of the time, and i go and get their coords from other alliances. Who am i supporting?
In that example it doesnt sound like youd have anything to worry about. Youd need to be specifically working with an alliance and be hitting thier enemies.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 01:49   #145
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
Of course I believed Tomkats argument had been debunked. I still believe it has been debunked. Im actually quite sure of it.
My argument was "there seems to be one rule for 1up and one for everyone else".

Which is what it seemed.

Luckily PA Team have reviewed their decision and decided to reverse it.

So it seems that the rules are the same for everyone.

That means my argument was correct, but now it isn't, I'd have thought?
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 02:05   #146
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Re: Double Standards

In my opinion it's rather amazing how in the last rounds the admin team have started to intervene more and more. When in round 4 cheating was just farming/account sharing/multiing then now there are more don't-s in PA than do-s. Nobody hardly cheats in this game any longer as the MH team is doing an amazing job. Unfortunately there are way too many pointless rules which they try to enforce.

This game has many features and allows players to use them as they want. Unfortunately the players can't do that any more and the game is slowly dieing. As jolt doesn't really care about this enterprise and just tries to get as much money out of it before it finally dies then a lot of things are left up to admins. While they are trying to make the game fair for everybody they make the game fair for nobody.

On to the point. You are trying to turn this game into pure alliance versus alliance fights. Planets who wish to play for themselves, their galaxies, their clusters or their friends are completely ignored. That's the real reason why PA is getting no more players. That's why the game is slowly dieing. But if that wasn't all you're even making the dedicated core leave as you deny them to use the features of the game. Why put them there then? Why can people covert op and scan? Make those features only for alliances then.

If you want to control scan planets then just make alliances 60+20 members with those 20 being special scan/cov ops planets who can't buy any ships. All scans and covert ops would be possible for scanners only and you when you sign up you would be able to choose to be a normal planet or a scan planet. For every 3 members in an alliances there could only be 1 scan planet then no more support or scan alliances will be formed. Make alliances only available for paying customers so alliances can't fill their scan alliances with 60 random players or even freebie multi accounts.

The solution I mentioned is of course drastic/utopic and most likely won't work. What I am trying to say is that a solution MUST be found as the current state of affairs is completely retarded. This game has many features and if you don't multi, account share, farm ships/roids/xp then you should not be closed for playing the game the way you want to. We are paying customers! You are here to make the game fun and interesting for us not the other way around. I won't most likely play another round of PA if these things only get solved by creating more and more rules. Yes, you are creating a new rule not interpreting a current one. Face that your actions have consequences and start doing something constructive!

A nice alternative to all this changing is to let PA evolve on it's own. Stop modifying stats every round and let people deal with them alone. Players and alliances would adapt to different strategies and styles of gameplay in their efforts to reach the top. Another important thing is that you should NEVER interfere with alliance politics. Leave the alliances alone and let them do what they want. If one alliances should get too good it will eventually be taken down by the others. The admins are playing a big part of PA and it's wrong! I don't want to live in this state of fear any longer.

Also please stop arguing and throwing mud at each other in this thread as that solves nothing.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 03:06   #147
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat

Luckily PA Team have reviewed their decision and decided to reverse it.
that's because the person running the MH clearly has no backbone and caved. The MH team has no responsability to warn anyone of anything, eula says so, they see you acting in a manner that they determine to be "support" they can close you, end of story. they need to have some stones for a change.
A scan is not a direct attack/defense that immediatly effects another planet, therefore a scan planet IS NOT "support" as defined in the eula.....a covert operation IS an attack that has immediate and direct effect on the target planet... much the same as your planets existance being solely to provide viper fleets IS. Thus it IS a support planet if it is NOT IN YOUR TAG and provides immediate tactical benefit for YOUR ALLIANCE. Don't even try and tell me a solo planet with no alliance affiliation had ACCESS to such a complete set of coords without alliance assistance. No way those people should have been re-opened. They whined to the MH team leader and got their way. That is EXACTLY why the MH team will always be a joke, until they have some leadership with a set of balls they will be nothing more than a joke.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 03:12   #148
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk
That is EXACTLY why the MH team will always be a joke, until they have some leadership with a set of balls they will be nothing more than a joke.
Well said. Instead of caving to the whiners, they should've told them to stop being babies.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 04:27   #149
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Re: Double Standards

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Originally Posted by Tomkat
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 04:44   #150
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
Tomkat the entire point of your original post is that 1up and exil are being treated differently. You titled it 'Double Standards'. It was you who made this a 1up/exil issue.
You could, K-W, try forget that it's evil eXilition and planetarion paragon 1up for a while. Try treat it as two cases where similar looking evidence of the so called support planet rule was interpreted very differently, leading into very a verdict and whatnot. Looking at the case more specifically, tomkat tried to refer to the case showing double standards, ie. Team/MH looking different at ones than anothers. At this case these two groups involved were/are eXilition and 1up. There could be other cases with similar tendencies.
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