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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 15:59   #401
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

I fail to see how 125 v 55 is a fair fight? What happens when 1up runs out of roids in two days then? Then what? You carry on hitting 1up constantly for little roid gains, little xp. What advantage does that have?

At the moment you are not on the level of ND/1up in score. So get roid fat, score fat, xp fat and when the time comes you can either choose ND to win the round or you could go for a round win of your own. The question is does Angels have the ambition and drive to go for #1? I would hope you do but that remains to be seen.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 15:59   #402
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
I didn't play rounds 11, 12, 13 and 14.
You played round 12.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:01   #403
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
You played round 12.
Sorry, I had forgotten that. I did in fact play the two first weeks of round 12 as a member in Vengeance.
Thank you for correcting me.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:02   #404
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
Sorry, I had forgotten that. I did in fact play the two first weeks of round 12 as a member in Vengeance.
Thank you for correcting me.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:04   #405
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
I didn't play rounds 11, 12, 13 and 14. so I know nothing of the revitalised LCH and Mistu. But as for last round, eXil had been grinding you into the ground for ages before you were relieved of the pressure. And at such an early stage in the round as it was, you never really managed to build up your fleets. And saying that you even cared much at that point, wouldn't be quite right, would it? I expect it to take some time for you to grind ND that far down. Let's just say it isn't happening today.

Edit: I've never been to the end of the rainbow. ):
So what you're saying that you have no idea whether the point you're trying to prove can ever be true or not. You might want ot look through the rounds you're handily ignoring and see how it really is. It took only a short time longer for ND to give up the ghost in R14 against 1up. I don't see why this, if the outcome was the same, would be any different.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:07   #406
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
by using them to draw out ND's support and thus their attacks losing intensity and focus (in theory).

I have no idea what VGN are doing with Angels.

Considering who's at #1, I think everyone has bigger worries than VGN.
If you take a second to look at the rankings you will SEE the reason VGN are most likly attacking Angels. Its because thats one of the alliances they are battling with for the the 3rd place which realistially is the higest they could expect at this moment in time. Angels are probally the alliance picked as they are the ones whom on paper have the biggst chance of getting 3rd and the quicker you can get them out of the way the better
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:08   #407
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
I fail to see how 125 v 55 is a fair fight? What happens when 1up runs out of roids in two days then? Then what? You carry on hitting 1up constantly for little roid gains, little xp. What advantage does that have?
Why would it need to be a fair fight? Who's speaking of "confidence in your own skill"? Two days? And if those 55 are better organized, got an average value of about 2.3 times more than the 125 others do, it would be quite fair. And who said anything about full scale hits? I think I was more speaking about keeping the conflict going, isn't that correct?

(I would of course not mind seeing them out of the race for #1, but I don't think there remains enough time for that to happen.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
At the moment you are not on the level of ND/1up in score. So get roid fat, score fat, xp fat and when the time comes you can either choose ND to win the round or you could go for a round win of your own. The question is does Angels have the ambition and drive to go for #1? I would hope you do but that remains to be seen.
Thanks for pointing out that we're in fact not anywhere near 1up or ND in score now. I always thought that was obvious though. As for the rest, I think it would be better to make sure your most dangerous enemy can't beat you, than rely on outgrowing them until the time comes where you have to face them.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
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I don't usually lie either, but I do forget.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:10   #408
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
If you take a second to look at the rankings you will SEE the reason VGN are most likly attacking Angels. Its because thats one of the alliances they are battling with for the the 3rd place which realistially is the higest they could expect at this moment in time. Angels are probally the alliance picked as they are the ones whom on paper have the biggst chance of getting 3rd and the quicker you can get them out of the way the better
I said I didn't know, I merely offered a theory to fill in qebab's line of thought. I never said what I thought was true.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:11   #409
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoom
I am not pasting rubbish? I am stating VgN has been hitting Angels and I suspect 1up got them to do that.
you did?
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:13   #410
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Of course you wouldn't - why would a 1up member buy into his own destruction?

1up are far more clinical at disposing of alliances end of round than exilition - even so, I think ND have proved that trying to chance your military on the last few days to decide a round when a better one has a sniff, doesn't really work unless you're confident you can keep them fully motivated until then. What you've just offered is "chancing it against 1up" rather than "chancing it against ND or Angels or Subh" and I'm pretty sure that option #2 is far more attractive to other alliances.
I wasn't talking as a 1up member, I was talking from the point of view of someone not involved in the current war.

I see you're deliberately downplaying the effect this conflict has on 1up and trying to make out like you think unless everyone piles in 1up wil lcome through unscathed and ready to take on whoever. The way you want to play it means 3 alliances (ND, Subh and Angels) beat 1up and win a, what should be, fairly convincing victory and remain fairly intact. The option that I am suggesting is that after the conflict you face an (in the case of Angels for example) in tact Subh or a depleted 1up or ND (because let's be honest there's no real way 1up ND and likely to work together any time this round.

So, in summary:

1) Your option of facing 3 in tact alliances
2) My option of facing one and a half alliances (the half obviously being a battle weary 1up or ND)

I'm also pretty sure that option #2 is far more attractive to other alliances.
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Quote:
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:15   #411
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
If you take a second to look at the rankings you will SEE the reason VGN are most likly attacking Angels. Its because thats one of the alliances they are battling with for the the 3rd place which realistially is the higest they could expect at this moment in time. Angels are probally the alliance picked as they are the ones whom on paper have the biggst chance of getting 3rd and the quicker you can get them out of the way the better
Come on and be reasonable now. How does that decent logic fit in with the conspiricy theorists that want to give 1up a good kicking?
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:16   #412
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
I said I didn't know, I merely offered a theory to fill in qebab's line of thought. I never said what I thought was true.
No, but you certianly didn't offer another thoery
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:16   #413
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
So what you're saying that you have no idea whether the point you're trying to prove can ever be true or not. You might want ot look through the rounds you're handily ignoring and see how it really is. It took only a short time longer for ND to give up the ghost in R14 against 1up. I don't see why this, if the outcome was the same, would be any different.
Why do I get the impression that you only read the part about rounds I didn't play?

And in this heated and paced discussion, I don't have the time to read through pawiki to update my knowledge on the rounds either, unless I want to read through a page of discussion that I missed. I'm ignoring those rounds out of necessity, not because I want to. I don't think it's possible for an alliance to collapse into absolute carelessness(?) in a matter of few days so late in this round. And I still think it is a morale boost to be allowed to keep your roids for a while, believe it or not.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:16   #414
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

You see this is what baffles me and I will try and be as clear as possible.

At the moment it is NewDawn/DLR vs 1up.

Now as far as roidlosses go etc its pretty much 50/50.

Now If we bring Angels into the equation, as you yourself a capable Angels BC is advocating what would that amount too.

Quite simply it would jus mean 1up loses more roids.

1up doesnt need roids to operate, it has its fleets. So what happens then. 1up has no roids left. On avg every member has 300 roids then what?

Does Angels hit ND?

Angels would be in a prediciment.

As I pointed out they are below both ND and 1up in score. The only way they can gain score is by roiding fat targets. If Angels started targetting 1up how do they expect to grow to a point where they can challenge ND? Remember ND wont be fat as 1up are targetting ND.

So what can Angels do?

My argument is that if it waits until it becomes the score of 1up/ND then it can throw its weight around and kill of alliance by alliance. Until that moment Angels are left in a catch 22 situation.

Do they stop there own growth in the attempt of stopping 1ups growth (and may I add there own) and in the hope that they can outgrow and roid an already roidless ND?

Or do they wait. Wait. Wait. When the time comes then they strike. If I was Angels HC I know what I would do. Remember why do ND/DLR any favours? Not as if they have ever done anything for you.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:17   #415
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
I said I didn't know, I merely offered a theory to fill in qebab's line of thought. I never said what I thought was true.
The person who brought that dimension to this discussion was Stoom though?
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:21   #416
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
Why do I get the impression that you only read the part about rounds I didn't play?
Because your response quoted me talking about the same scenario in past rounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab1
And in this heated and paced discussion, I don't have the time to read through pawiki to update my knowledge on the rounds either, unless I want to read through a page of discussion that I missed. I'm ignoring those rounds out of necessity, not because I want to.
Then I'm possible being slightly pedantic when I say you obviously don't have all the required background to talk about these scenarios.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab1
I don't think it's possible for an alliance to collapse into absolute carelessness(?) in a matter of few days so late in this round.
It is and alliances have. Once again if you knew your PA history you'd know this has happened multiple times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab1
And I still think it is a morale boost to be allowed to keep your roids for a while, believe it or not.
Or disheartening even more when you know they are going to come back and take them again

edit: Sorry for incessently putitng a 1 at the end of your name. I'm not sure why I keep doing that :\
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:24   #417
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
I wasn't talking as a 1up member, I was talking from the point of view of someone not involved in the current war.

I see you're deliberately downplaying the effect this conflict has on 1up and trying to make out like you think unless everyone piles in 1up wil lcome through unscathed and ready to take on whoever. The way you want to play it means 3 alliances (ND, Subh and Angels) beat 1up and win a, what should be, fairly convincing victory and remain fairly intact. The option that I am suggesting is that after the conflict you face an (in the case of Angels for example) in tact Subh or a depleted 1up or ND (because let's be honest there's no real way 1up ND and likely to work together any time this round.

So, in summary:

1) Your option of facing 3 in tact alliances
2) My option of facing one and a half alliances (the half obviously being a battle weary 1up or ND)

I'm also pretty sure that option #2 is far more attractive to other alliances.
1up versus ND one on one is a pretty much foregone conclusion in most people's minds and 1up aren't an alliance you fancy your chances against, as the longer the round goes on, the more difficult it is to move them. Basically, if the others want a chance, they have to stop 1up from prevailing in any sense. It's a struggle now, when most alliances are much at peak activity - so it will only get harder, so now is pretty much their last and only chance. You wouldn't be facing 3 alliances, as they all would have to oppose each other in some capacity. The whole point of this is to open up the playing field at the end game phase of the round, rather than it being 1up vs someone, because in that scenario, 1up wins.

So i'll go out on a limb and say your post is an untrue view of the situation. It's a false economy.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:26   #418
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
Subh? They have a lot of ex eXilition so maybe, but are they really willing to sacrifice another month of not getting any sleep and making it tedious to login? I would argue no, we all no eXiltion players dont have the stamina to play two rounds back to back hardcore why would they play hardcore for another ally to win. They wouldnt.
Not playing 2 rounds back to back and not being able to are two completly differnt things.

Also im pretty sure the majority of players in eX have played hardcore for other allainces for 2+ rounds in a row, i know i have.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:27   #419
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
1up versus ND one on one is a pretty much foregone conclusion in most people's minds and 1up aren't an alliance you fancy your chances against, as the longer the round goes on, the more difficult it is to move them. Basically, if the others want a chance, they have to stop 1up from prevailing in any sense. It's a struggle now, when most alliances are much at peak activity - so it will only get harder, so now is pretty much their last and only chance. You wouldn't be facing 3 alliances, as they all would have to oppose each other in some capacity. The whole point of this is to open up the playing field at the end game phase of the round, rather than it being 1up vs someone, because in that scenario, 1up wins.

So i'll go out on a limb and say your post is an untrue view of the situation. It's a false economy.
Then we'll agree to differ because I think you're doing nothing more than trying to scare monger a bigger faction against 1up to ease ND's days and nights.

It doesn't matter who you're fighting, if you have more value and better fleet composition then you're off to a flyer and the scenario I've outlines would give a means of getting into this position.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:27   #420
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by cypher
i'm just gonna laugh when dlr guys join ND in tag later on and they win the round by a mile cuz let's face it... atm ND with 69 people has an easy win tbh
If they do that then ND will lose the respect and reputation they have as an "honourable" alliance. At the moment the only negative stereotype they have is something of a "fencesitter/coward". If they do something as low as recruit a BG, who didn't even play with them, at the end of the round to rise to #1, it won't be accepted by the PA community as a win.

I don't think DLR will join - I hope they won't. They started as a bit of fun this round, for the members to play less seriously. To completely alter the end of the round by joining an alliance they don't belong to would be pretty shitty of them.

Any DLR HC want to come forward and promise this won't happen?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
Synthetic_sid, all of a sudden has mucho planetarion logics when his alliance is winning. When exil is stomping them into the ground he has no post.
It's more probably because Sid has his work cut out for him when Exil are pushing forward (especially with their support planets ), and less time to browse the forums.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipZ^
So you paint all eX posters with the same brush as Chika (who was and will never be eX) and max (who we all know is a forum muppet).
Didn't you get the bulletin? Exilition don't exist this round!

You're an Angels poster, not an Exilition one :P
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:28   #421
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipZ^
Also im pretty sure the majority of players in eX have played hardcore for other allainces for 2+ rounds in a row, i know i have.
Glad to hear, the more players the better for the game.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:29   #422
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
Now If we bring Angels into the equation, as you yourself a capable Angels BC is advocating what would that amount too.

Quite simply it would jus mean 1up loses more roids.
Surely the roids they lose aren't magically destroyed - they will not disappear. And last I checked, the average 1up member has 624 roids - an average 1up member is 1.5 times the value of an Angel perhaps? I didn't check, but that wouldn't really be so far of. So a first wave coming through, would offer on average 156 roids with 15 xp per roid.

And as I stated several times, what would benefit us the most if is 1up and ND kick the living shit out of each other. For as long as possible. If you think that warrants "bringing Angels into the equation", and obviously you mean all of us, with all our fleets (otherwise you wouldn't have made the statement about 135 players versus 55, would you?), I didn't get my point across earlier. Sorry for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
1up doesnt need roids to operate, it has its fleets. So what happens then. 1up has no roids left.
Just a funny afterthought - as you seem to think every else needs roids to operate. When 1up lose their roids, their value gain will not exactly accelerate.

Angels would next do what benefits them most in the long run - as I'm sure every other alliance tries. The biggest achievement possible would be to win, and if that means taking risks - well, personally I would take them. It's better to try and fail, than failing because you did not try at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
As I pointed out they are below both ND and 1up in score. The only way they can gain score is by roiding fat targets. If Angels started targetting 1up how do they expect to grow to a point where they can challenge ND? Remember ND wont be fat as 1up are targetting ND.

So what can Angels do?

My argument is that if it waits until it becomes the score of 1up/ND then it can throw its weight around and kill of alliance by alliance. Until that moment Angels are left in a catch 22 situation.

Do they stop there own growth in the attempt of stopping 1ups growth (and may I add there own) and in the hope that they can outgrow and roid an already roidless ND?

Or do they wait. Wait. Wait. When the time comes then they strike. If I was Angels HC I know what I would do. Remember why do ND/DLR any favours? Not as if they have ever done anything for you.
1up don't have fat targets?
Well, surely they offer a lot of xp. And outgrowing other alliances, especially those wich are as deadly as 1up do not work. It is that simple.

Now, I really have to go. Will have to try to catch up on the discussion later.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:31   #423
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipZ^
Not playing 2 rounds back to back and not being able to are two completly differnt things.

Also im pretty sure the majority of players in eX have played hardcore for other allainces for 2+ rounds in a row, i know i have.
Not being able to in what sense? If they play hardcore for other alliances in that time then why not together?
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:31   #424
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
If they do that then ND will lose the respect and reputation they have as an "honourable" alliance. At the moment the only negative stereotype they have is something of a "fencesitter/coward". If they do something as low as recruit a BG, who didn't even play with them, at the end of the round to rise to #1, it won't be accepted by the PA community as a win.

I don't think DLR will join - I hope they won't. They started as a bit of fun this round, for the members to play less seriously. To completely alter the end of the round by joining an alliance they don't belong to would be pretty shitty of them.

Any DLR HC want to come forward and promise this won't happen?
Im in the same camp as you however lets look at the evidence for a second.

NewDawn private channels contain DLR.
DLR have a "special" relationship with ND.
DLR and ND are both targetting 1up.
DLR wants ND to win.

Now if the only way ND could win would be recruit a few DLR then im sure a few of them wouldnt mind joining them.

I hope DLR and ND dont stoop to such low levels but if they do firstly well done on doing something that everyone was thinking but have the pride not to do it. Secondly shame on you.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:37   #425
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
Then we'll agree to differ because I think you're doing nothing more than trying to scare monger a bigger faction against 1up to ease ND's days and nights.

It doesn't matter who you're fighting, if you have more value and better fleet composition then you're off to a flyer and the scenario I've outlines would give a means of getting into this position.
As ND vs exilition proved, that isn't necessarily the case. It's 1up's dedication that is the key factor.

I'm not scare mongering anything - I didn't get this group together, I'm just commentating as to why it makes perfect sense for them to continue as they are.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:37   #426
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
NewDawn private channels contain DLR.
DLR have a "special" relationship with ND.
DLR and ND are both targetting 1up.
DLR wants ND to win.
1. Only one or two DLR, and I think it's more out of goodwill and things than for any tactical advantage. The same reason we have Zhil in 1up channels :P

2. Yeah but the special relationship is only really avoiding each others planets.

3. So are Subh, tgv and Angels.... Gee. I had to stop there - I still can't get over how amusing it is it takes 4 alliances and a battlegroup to take 1 alliance down. Good one, guys.

4. Yeah, but I think (well, I hope) that Grog and Troll have more integrity than to do something like that. They aren't baddies in PA, not like those dirty Exilitions.


I don't think DLR will merge with ND. I think the HC and members have more respect for themselves than that.

I have been known to be wrong in the past. It does happen rarely, but sometimes I'm not always right
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:42   #427
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
1. Only one or two DLR, and I think it's more out of goodwill and things than for any tactical advantage. The same reason we have Zhil in 1up channels :P

I hope its more goodwill than sinister, although the way it was dealt with on these boards was somewhat a shambles.

2. Yeah but the special relationship is only really avoiding each others planets.

Im sure they have a little word on who they are going to hit tonight, just a little hunch, no idea so dont me for it.

3. So are Subh, tgv and Angels.... Gee. I had to stop there - I still can't get over how amusing it is it takes 4 alliances and a battlegroup to take 1 alliance down. Good one, guys.

C'est la vie

4. Yeah, but I think (well, I hope) that Grog and Troll have more integrity than to do something like that. They aren't baddies in PA, not like those dirty Exilitions.

Theres nothing wrong with eXilition.

I don't think DLR will merge with ND. I think the HC and members have more respect for themselves than that.

You would hope so, but nothing suprises me in pa anymore.

I have been known to be wrong in the past. It does happen rarely, but sometimes I'm not always right

You? Wrong? Never!
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:42   #428
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
As ND vs exilition proved, that isn't necessarily the case. It's 1up's dedication that is the key factor.
Or the fact that eXilition had a load of mates helping them. It was the same 1up this round that got beaten last round bar a couple of hangers on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
I'm not scare mongering anything - I didn't get this group together, I'm just commentating as to why it makes perfect sense for them to continue as they are.
And I'm just commenting on why it doesn't. You said my idea's were a false economy and I think yours are scare mongering to help Nd as the only that is every going to help them in the current situation is if someone piles in to take the heat off. I guess this means we've hit an impasse

I must also ask why you were posting the same theories when Subh, Angels and LCH were piling into 1up? Surely it would have made even more sense for ND then? Was it more a case of ND playing clever politics at that point?
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Last edited by mazzelaar; 1 Mar 2006 at 16:47.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:45   #429
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
Not being able to in what sense? If they play hardcore for other alliances in that time then why not together?
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:49   #430
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

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Originally Posted by mazzelaar
Not being able to in what sense? If they play hardcore for other alliances in that time then why not together?
They need Kaifux to hold there hand.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:51   #431
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
Even more proof as to why Angels should not help ND/DLR. ND/DLR should be concentrating on there battle with 1up rather than once again stab themselves in the foot.

You seem to have the impression that DLR is simply a branch of ND & will do whatever ND does.

Thats simply not the case.

DLR is very much a seperate entity & will do whatever DLR decides to do.

We certainly aren't concentrating on 1up or anyone else atm.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:53   #432
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog
You seem to have the impression that DLR is simply a branch of ND & will do whatever ND does.
That indeed is the impression I had. Thankyou for clearing it up for me.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:54   #433
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
Or the fact that eXilition had a load of mates helping them. It was the same 1up this round that got beaten last round bar a couple of hangers on.

And I'm just commenting on why it doesn't. You said my idea's were a false economy and I think yours are scare mongering to help Nd as the only that is every going to help them in the current situation is if someone piles in to take the heat off. I guess this means we've hit an impasse
I disagree, having been on the receiving end and seeing what happened in all its horrible detail. I said they were a false economy, because I concluded that they were and you offered nothing bar accusing me of "scare-mongering".

I certainly don't think we've hit an impasse. You decided to say nothing further in response. Do you have anything further to argue with?
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:56   #434
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

now that's just a dirty lie bringing it to a planetary targetting level.

edit: with regards to
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog
We certainly aren't concentrating on 1up or anyone else atm.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 16:59   #435
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthetic_Sid
If exil were able/willing to discuss "logics" on the forums then I'd have no problem engaging in debate with them. But all the while their supporters on here are of the standard of yourself and Max I see no possibility of any useful discussion here.

P.S. I'm glad to hear my "minons" don't have water retention problems.
Chika` is far from a supporter of eXilition. He was refused membership (more than once?) in the run up to R15, you know that.

I'm more than up for discussing "logics" though as far as I know, there's little to say with regard to eXilition this round!
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 17:01   #436
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
I disagree. NewDawn and no disrespect to them I hold them in high regard are military wise incapable of attacking. It has taken a split in the alliance which has lead to there sister alliance DLR being created with the sole goal of attacking.
OK thats just simply wrong.

NewDawns strength has always been attacking. NewDawn has consistently shown that they can attack & roid with the best of them.

Where NewDawn can't compete with the best of them is on defence.
NewDawn has for several rounds simply lacked the night time activity to defend as well as the other top alliances.

The split of DLR from NewDawn had nothing to do with either of these things.

Seems to me everything you post is basically flawed, you either are totally unaware of the realities, or you're here solely for propoganda purposes.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 17:12   #437
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
I disagree, having been on the receiving end and seeing what happened in all its horrible detail. I said they were a false economy, because I concluded that they were and you offered nothing bar accusing me of "scare-mongering".

I certainly don't think we've hit an impasse. You decided to say nothing further in response. Do you have anything further to argue with?
Receiving end of what? 1up coming after you? So? This is an entirely different round with completely different dynamics and possible solutions.

You didn't conlude anything. You gave me a point of view and I gave you a contradicting one and have repeatedly outlined why I think my conclusions are valid.

If we're resorting to this level then do you have no better ammo than being condescending? We evidently don't agree on the outcomes of the current situation. I find it a bit sad that you take that kind of response into whats been an intelligent discussion.

The only thing you managed to add was that 1ups activity is a key factor and I agree, it determines whether we carry on the current stalemate (and you can argue against the stalemate all you want but the numbers on sandmans don't lie) or we get beaten. Sandmans is currently going a long way to proving me right and you wrong:

1up:

Roids: -3k
Score: +3mil

ND

Roids: -3.1k
Score: +3.3mil

How about that? Any more talking down to be done?
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Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 17:17   #438
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog
snip
I was merely alluding to a possibility. Unfortunately I dont have a spy in ND relaying me channel by channel events. However it was quite clear from logs seen here that ND and DLR were in each others pockets to a certain extent. Now can you really have a go at me from coming up with a conclusion? All be it the wrong one in your eyes, the fact of the matter is that now you have come on and cleared up your view we can move on, can we not?
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 17:21   #439
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoom
Still 1up isn't alone vs. Angels/ND either. While (they got?) VgN targetting Angels Angels aren't that comfortable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoom
I am not pasting rubbish? I am stating VgN has been hitting Angels and I suspect 1up got them to do that. How many times have eX had this all over them from 1up posters last round. Including you! It was not my intention to flame or irritate people by this post. If so I am sorry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cypher
if we controlled vgn fully why wouldn't they take out dlr or ND?:s as atm they are our enemies.... angels are not at this moment
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoom
Who said anything about 'controlling' VgN I am only saying they target Angels. As for ND there is always F-Crew.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
by using them to draw out ND's support and thus their attacks losing intensity and focus (in theory).

I have no idea what VGN are doing with Angels.

Considering who's at #1, I think everyone has bigger worries than VGN.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
If you take a second to look at the rankings you will SEE the reason VGN are most likly attacking Angels. Its because thats one of the alliances they are battling with for the the 3rd place which realistially is the higest they could expect at this moment in time. Angels are probally the alliance picked as they are the ones whom on paper have the biggst chance of getting 3rd and the quicker you can get them out of the way the better

VGN is not targetting Angels. VGN hasn't hit Angels planets for at least the last week or so. We've been far too busy with other matters to even consider targetting Angels.

VGN is not allied to 1up. At no point this round has VGN and 1up co-ordinated attacks on anyone, not have they agreed to target the same alliance. VGN's policy towards 1up is the same as any other alliance: get on with your own wars, we'll get on with ours. The continuing flak allegations are a load of nonsense, since we play for ourselves and always have done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
You stated as fact, not an opinion. It's the second time I've heard the notion today and still a load of bollocks. I'm sure furball would love VGN to be playing as 1ups bitches.

I have no idea and no interest in who VGN are hitting unless I happen to see thier fleets appearing on our screens in large numbers.
Although mazz forgets about how nice it would probably be for us to hit NewDawn or Angels (from 1up's point of view), he's correct on the rest of it. It's a total load of bollocks and anyone continuing to suggest it should expect their own personal incs as punishment for talking out of their arse on AD.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 17:24   #440
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome
now that's just a dirty lie bringing it to a planetary targetting level.

edit: with regards to
OK my mistake.

Other then Jerome DLR isn't concentrating on anyone in particular.

Better?
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 17:30   #441
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
DLR and ND are both targetting 1up.
Why are DLR doing galraids if we're targetting 1up? DLR contains many skilled players & officers and if we wanted to hit an alliance, I'm sure we would do it properly.

As for ND hitting 1up, I think they did exactly the right thing. The options were between playing for second, or playing for first. ND took a gamble, and played for first. From the point of view of other alliances, 1up have openly said they will not retaliate against those that hit 1up for a period so long as ND do not surrender. This is, IMO, an open invitation and an excellent opportunity for other alliances to take; 1up are the only alliance that cannot be beaten by any other alliance in a fight for number 1, and this will be the last opportunity to defeat them. Whether they're crap targets now, or crap targets when they come for angels/subh after beating ND doesn't matter all that much. The only difference is that by hitting 1up now, they can be sufficiently weakened to open up the round.

Hydra, Insomnia & LCH received a similar reply from 1up on AD in round 14. Things got tough, but because of a combination of factors such as complete shitness (Hydra hitting 1up consisted, according to hydra members I have talked to, of 2 galraids per night), 1up had the stamina to easily recover and move into an unbeatable position as opposition fell apart. To me, this round parallels round 14 in some ways; if Subh and Angels **** around and don't help to crush the life from 1up, 1up will simply dispose of ND, then the next competitors in turn. If Subh & Angels don't help out ND, and then 1up don't win, I will send someone £5 in return for a clue.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 17:34   #442
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
Why are DLR doing galraids if we're targetting 1up? DLR contains many skilled players & officers and if they wanted to hit an alliance, I'm sure they would do it properly.

As for ND hitting 1up, I think they did exactly the right thing. The options were between playing for second, or playing for first. ND took a gamble, and played for first. From the point of view of other alliances, 1up have openly said they will not retaliate against those that hit 1up for a period so long as ND do not surrender. This is, IMO, an open invitation and an excellent opportunity for other alliances to take; 1up are the only alliance that cannot be beaten by any other alliance in a fight for number 1, and this will be the last opportunity to defeat them. Whether they're crap targets now, or crap targets when they come for angels/subh after beating ND doesn't matter all that much. The only difference is that by hitting 1up now, they can be sufficiently weakened to open up the round.

Hydra, Insomnia & LCH received a similar reply from 1up on AD in round 14. Things got tough, but because of a combination of factors such as complete shitness (Hydra hitting 1up consisted, according to hydra members I have talked to, of 2 galraids per night), 1up had the stamina to easily recover and move into an unbeatable position as opposition fell apart. To me, this round parallels round 14 in some ways; if Subh and Angels **** around and don't help to crush the life from 1up, 1up will simply dispose of ND, then the next competitors in turn. If Subh & Angels don't help out ND, and then 1up don't win, I will send someone £5 in return for a clue.
What baffles me is why dont Angels and Subh just sit it out for a bit, get some easy roids grow, and let ND and 1up beat the shit out of each other. Theres no need for them to involve themselves in a battle which is blatantly weakening each side as much as the other. Rather they can both gain roids and score.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 17:34   #443
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate

Hydra, Insomnia & LCH received a similar reply from 1up on AD in round 14. Things got tough, but because of a combination of factors such as complete shitness (Hydra hitting 1up consisted, according to hydra members I have talked to, of 2 galraids per night), 1up had the stamina to easily recover and move into an unbeatable position as opposition fell apart. To me, this round parallels round 14 in some ways; if Subh and Angels **** around and don't help to crush the life from 1up, 1up will simply dispose of ND, then the next competitors in turn. If Subh & Angels don't help out ND, and then 1up don't win, I will send someone £5 in return for a clue.
Why should they though? ND didn't have the spine to throw thier hat in when Subh, Angels and LCH tried it. Prior to this conflict Nd tried it on a single occasion and backed down and promised to stay away after we made it clear they were about to be focussed on with everything we had if they didn't desist.

The hypocrisy is just frightening.

ND the kings of not lifting a finger and expecting the world to fight thier wars for them.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 17:37   #444
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
What baffles me is why dont Angels and Subh just sit it out for a bit, get some easy roids grow, and let ND and 1up beat the shit out of each other. Theres no need for them to involve themselves in a battle which is blatantly weakening each side as much as the other. Rather they can both gain roids and score.
LEt's not beat around the bush and try and make things prettier than they really are. This is exaclt y what ND intended to do when Subh, LCH and Angels first started cooperating against 1up. This is exactly why they backed down and stayed out of it when other people were doing the donkey work. In all truth if I were HC of any of those other alliances I'd ket them die on thier arse. as ND not lifting a finger and then begging for help later is becoming a bit of a recurring theme.
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 17:40   #445
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
as ND not lifting a finger and then begging for help later is becoming a bit of a recurring theme.
The policy worked for them r15!

They finished 2nd.
They manage to single handidly piss off most alliances in top 10.
They collapsed after everyone told them what was going to happen.

Why wouldnt they try the same tactic again?
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 17:41   #446
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
Receiving end of what? 1up coming after you? So? This is an entirely different round with completely different dynamics and possible solutions.
Exilition

Quote:
You didn't conlude anything. You gave me a point of view and I gave you a contradicting one and have repeatedly outlined why I think my conclusions are valid.

If we're resorting to this level then do you have no better ammo than being condescending? We evidently don't agree on the outcomes of the current situation. I find it a bit sad that you take that kind of response into whats been an intelligent discussion.
I discussed your post and came to a conclusion which was that your post was a false economy.
All I get in response is "you're scaremongering, we've hit an impasse, we'll leave it there".

Quote:
The only thing you managed to add was that 1ups activity is a key factor and I agree, it determines whether we carry on the current stalemate (and you can argue against the stalemate all you want but the numbers on sandmans don't lie) or we get beaten. Sandmans is currently going a long way to proving me right and you wrong:

1up:

Roids: -3k
Score: +3mil

ND

Roids: -3.1k
Score: +3.3mil

How about that? Any more talking down to be done?
I think that's eminently suggestive that the level of incoming needs to be maintained/increased to ensure that the tanker is turned. Day 1 and 2 aren't going to be determinative, it's days 5,6,7,8 i'm more concerned about. I have implied that it will get worse for ND before it gets better - conveniently, you skirted that part of my post. If you want to interpret data from early doors, fine - I prefer to look at things long term. The key to it all is holding up ND for long enough - on their own 1 on 1 they most likely get beat and the next alliance joins the queue for 1up to whittle their way through them.

No one doubts that 1up and ND kicking lumps out of each other is good for everyone else - this is stating the obvious. But for the rest to have a better chance of winning, ND has to prevail, which means its in their interests to help them out.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 17:51   #447
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Any DLR HC want to come forward and promise this won't happen?

I am somewhat overwhelmed by the hypocrisy of this request.

Now I have no plans to join the ND tag & I can assure you that it's been discussed more on this board then it has ever been between DLR & ND HC.

This request coming from TomKat though, just boggles me.

TomKat tried to join 1up in between rounds & was rejected, he then came to me & asked if he could play with DLR. Although I had several reservations about him, I finally assented & let him join.

He then used DLR raids to become a top 10 planet in roids & score, then got himself accepted into 1up.

So now he is requesting that I promise that DLR members won't do what he himself has already done.

The hypocrisy here is amazing & I really can't believe he actually made the request.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 17:54   #448
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
I discussed your post and came to a conclusion which was that your post was a false economy.
All I get in response is "you're scaremongering, we've hit an impasse, we'll leave it there".
And I discussed your posts and came to the conclusion that you were scare mongering to try and increase the feeling of inevitability of 1up succeeding purely to increase the public will to form a block and smash us into the floor. Wheres the difference in what we're saying about each others ideas?

You're just being deliberately obtuse.I gave 6/7 posts in response to all yours discussing both sides. Just reeks of you having nothing better to say to me and it's about the best you can do in response to the discussion not having a clear outcome. I'm sure you'll get over it though with a bit of counselling.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
I think that's eminently suggestive that the level of incoming needs to be maintained/increased to ensure that the tanker is turned. Day 1 and 2 aren't going to be determinative, it's days 5,6,7,8 i'm more concerned about. I have implied that it will get worse for ND before it gets better - conveniently, you skirted that part of my post. If you want to interpret data from early doors, fine - I prefer to look at things long term. The key to it all is holding up ND for long enough - on their own 1 on 1 they most likely get beat and the next alliance joins the queue for 1up to whittle their way through them.
I understand what your theorising but thats all it is. What evidence is there from this round to suggest, particularly after two successful days, that ND are suddenly going to fall apart? They've made a good start so why shouldn't they keep it up? Again, you're just goign out of your way to downplay the effect this is having on 1up by throwing wild speculation into the mix and dismissing the actual evidence set in front of you in favour of a 7 days "guess".

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
No one doubts that 1up and ND kicking lumps out of each other is good for everyone else - this is stating the obvious. But for the rest to have a better chance of winning, ND has to prevail, which means its in their interests to help them out.
No, ND does not have to prevail. This has been my argument from the beginning. The best outcome would be for both alliances to come out of this after a week or so in really bad shape while the people in the chasing group have limited thier incoming, gained roids and built solid value.

What I meant by an impass was that we're just going back and forth without there being a clear outcome. If you choose to see this as me "throwing the towel in" then go ahead; small things and all that. I personally fail to see the point in saying the same thing over and over again. We both have opposing views and have laid out the basis of these opinions and I'm happy to accept that whereas you seem intent on proving something that can only be shown after the event.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 17:55   #449
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Ofc it's a rumour and ofc I don't have any evidence, so obvious it aint true, but it's funny anyway to hear that 1up supposedly (here we go again highly speculative) been recruiting galmates to join/help em out
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 17:57   #450
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

you mean in-gal def? :P
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