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Unread 26 Jan 2006, 16:09   #1
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Advanced Targetting

I would like it if you were able to do some advanced targetting.
Giving different shiptypes of your own ships specific orders to attack another ship (one that is the class your ship attacks).

For example: ordering ghosts to only fire at marauder and not fire at rogues/other CR.

Maybe give the player the option to work with %, normally it targets each ship in it's targetclass the same % but the player can chose to change this %

Example (again using the ghost)
Normal state
Ghost Targets: Syren 16%
Tarantula 16%
Roach 16%
Wraith 16%
Rogue 16%
Marauder 16%

User Defined state
Ghost Targets: Syren 20%
Tarantula 0%
Roach 0%
Wraith 10%
Rogue 20%
Marauder 50%

Also include a reset button (for when you screw up badly )

Doing this would open up a whole new way of strategy, offensive and defensive.
I know i probably didn't explain this very well but it was just an idea that popped in my mind and i found it rather difficult to explain it in english as it is not my native tongue
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Unread 26 Jan 2006, 16:38   #2
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Re: Advanced Targetting

I like this idea it has a lot of merit but how would it work with different % of ships in an attacking fleet. As currently that decided what gets shot at the most not anything on the defencive side

So if a fleet is made up of 90% tulas then 90% of the targeting would be against them

Im not sure how this would be taken into account
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Unread 26 Jan 2006, 16:45   #3
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Re: Advanced Targetting

I like for a good reason:
when i attacked and calced I lost many Vsh in a battle I added my sents to the calc and checked again. They killed 0 ships, they only got killed. HoweveriIt was really ways cheaper to attack with them in the fleet added. with this function you could turn it off so that (in this example) the sents wont be targetted. And thats why i like this idea - you can target only ships relevant for you
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Unread 26 Jan 2006, 17:07   #4
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Re: Advanced Targetting

Erm.. No... everyone would just put their targeting to the roider of the class....
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Unread 26 Jan 2006, 17:18   #5
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Re: Advanced Targetting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Erm.. No... everyone would just put their targeting to the roider of the class....
That can be fixed by excluding the roiders from the list you can chose from, giving them a fixed % of targetting that the user can't change.
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Unread 26 Jan 2006, 17:46   #6
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Re: Advanced Targetting

It's creative but would make many ships obsolete. You'd need to prevent people simply targetting roiders, while stealing would be rather shite under this.
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Unread 26 Jan 2006, 17:50   #7
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Re: Advanced Targetting

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
It's creative but would make many ships obsolete. You'd need to prevent people simply targetting roiders, while stealing would be rather shite under this.
-About the targetting roiders, read my previous post about excluding them from the list the user can chose from
-Why would stealing be shit? It would be good for ziks imo caus they would be able to go after a specific shiptype they want to add to their fleet.
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Unread 26 Jan 2006, 17:57   #8
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Re: Advanced Targetting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
-About the targetting roiders, read my previous post about excluding them from the list the user can chose from
-Why would stealing be shit? It would be good for ziks imo caus they would be able to go after a specific shiptype they want to add to their fleet.
True, but people would be forced to target stealers too. This means that stealing would have to be depowered to avoid it becoming too powerful.
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Unread 26 Jan 2006, 18:10   #9
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Re: Advanced Targetting

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
True, but people would be forced to target stealers too. This means that stealing would have to be depowered to avoid it becoming too powerful.
Every system has it's ups an downs about it, offcourse certain things like shipstats etc would need to be altered to fit the system, but those change every round so i don't see much bad in it.

The system i'm proposing would be dynamic, you could set targets for each mission, which imo would give players more control of their fleet and that's a good thing.
It would also reduce the number of collateral damage done to a persons fleet, players could find new tactics etc etc
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Unread 2 Feb 2006, 13:13   #10
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Re: Advanced Targetting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
The system i'm proposing would be dynamic, you could set targets for each mission, which imo would give players more control of their fleet and that's a good thing.
The proposal is interesting. There are a few things that i've thought of though just off the cuff;

1) That whole Pods thing which has been raised already
2) What would the role of 'flak' - where ships with proportionally more armour per resource are used to reduce losses - take in the new system? Afaik, it would be more or less eliminated as players could (and would as often as they were able to) dodge the flak ships and target the more weakly armoured ships. The implication is that roids become more expensive much of the time, and also the usefullness of flak ships deteroiates - you might be thinking "so what?!", but Flak ships are often used (well, by me at least) in ship stats as a balancing factor - low attack with high armour means that a fleet that would normally be too vulnerable is able to flak out their fleet and get through, at the cost of offensive power. Which would further make roiding more expensive which is a questionable objective due to stagnation etc.
3) The impact of Stealing ships had been raised, but i wonder what the implications might be - i think it would result in more "ship farming" for want of a better term, as Zikonians are able to be more choosy with the units that they steal - for example, it would be much easier to steal a Xan's Pulsars without having to nab Daggers, Vsh, Sents etc at the same time - thus stealing only what they want and not what they are given. I reckon that Beggars cant be Choosers - thus you should take the bad ships with the good ships, otherwise the result is more of the 'best of both worlds' situation alot faster than it would otherwise.
4) What would the result of the situation where a player chooses to target (for example) TBT over all other Frigates; ie
TBT 50% of fleet in numbers, targeted 100%
Broadsword 25%; 0%
Sabre 25%; 0%
Now, assume that the Defender guesses that you are trying to trash/steal his TBT, and thus flees them from battle. Does:
a) Because there are no TBT at the battle, no anti FR shots are fired
b) Anti FR shots are re-distributed based on %of other fleet (ie half on Broadswords and Sabres, and then calculate losses).

If it was a) that would result in a very interesting situation where the benefits of targeting a certain type of ship in a class comes at the potential risk of loosing that firepower should that type not be present in battle. Complex, but i'm sure hours of entertainment would be had .

5) There was something else i was going to mention that slipped my mind whilst thinking on why a Zikonian would want to steal Pulsars. I'll add it in later

Thoughts?
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Unread 5 Feb 2006, 00:37   #11
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Re: Advanced Targetting

Oh how I miss T3 all
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 11:29   #12
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Re: Advanced Targetting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
4) What would the result of the situation where a player chooses to target (for example) TBT over all other Frigates; ie
TBT 50% of fleet in numbers, targeted 100%
Broadsword 25%; 0%
Sabre 25%; 0%
Now, assume that the Defender guesses that you are trying to trash/steal his TBT, and thus flees them from battle. Does:
a) Because there are no TBT at the battle, no anti FR shots are fired
b) Anti FR shots are re-distributed based on %of other fleet (ie half on Broadswords and Sabres, and then calculate losses).
Option a.
You have the power to set your targetting, but if the defender runs his TBT (in this scenario) you don't fire at anything else as it was originaly intended by the targetting. It makes people more responsible of their fleet, being able to have the choice of what they target, but if they **** up then there's no second chance like you stated in option b.

It would make pa a bit harder, but also alot more unpredictable.
Atm we have only so little choices of what to do with our fleet, the only real strategy element in it is the way you compose your fleet.
PA could use a bit more strategy...
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Unread 10 Feb 2006, 23:42   #13
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Re: Advanced Targetting

Again, I don't think this is a solution to a particular problem. It removes the use of flak as a viable tactic (For example, using peacekeepers in anti CR calls this round is something that many DCs don't consider, but can be very efficient as they flak barghests so effectively...), and adds a guessing element, as soveh said.

As for designing stats, this could require a complete overhaul... cathaar, for example. When attacking, tarantulas would only ever set to stun ghosts, roach would split between bucc and barghest depending on their target. When not attacking, they would probably only be set to stun the relevant pod types. Far from adding that much variety, it removes the use of flak combos and we will most likely see a consistent set of targetting picked by all cathaar players.

With the tarantula (For example) always stunning ghosts, with such fantastic initiative and weapon power, cathaar cruisers would prove to be nigh impossible to stop (how many calls can you spare more than twice your alliance's value in a defence ship just to start inflicting damage?), except, ironically, with scarabs taht would just stun the hornets. Which takes me on to cathaar defence; black widows, scarabs etc would only need to stun the relevant pod types, vastly increasing the strength of the cathaars. For example, currently terrans can roid cathaars with their BS fleet. Later round, such a fleet may consist of 200 each of wyvern and dragon, and 100 leviathan. Currently this would require 3.2k black widows, but with targetting priorities, just 630~ widows could stop this large terran fleet. It's a similar case with most other fleets; cathaar, if retaining their current 'style', would be unbelievably overpowered.

Atm, I'm skeptical of this as I feel it adds needless complexity and making workable stats would be a nightmare, leading to severe balance issues and not adding much to the game. Show me a set of stats that would actually work though, and I'd be willing to reconsider!
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