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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:07   #1
Rumad
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The uneven application of the pic rules.

OK

This may seem petty, but this is about the uneven application of pictures and there deletion by PA Team.

Before the end of round 9, I decided I would play 9.5 with my real name. Just a bit of fun to allow people to get some revenge and for me to have some fun playing as me.

So Rumad of the th0ng palace was born.

For a laugh I put up two pictures designed by ice lady's husband (the infamous Rumad dance and jiggle pics). The first was removed by spinner which I agreed to due to it may have been misconstrued as inappropriate. After an hour debate with spinner he agree that the second picture was not sexual in nature. So I was happy and I left things as they were.

After lunch today I found that this new pic was deleted. Now you may think this is a bitch because I cannot use the pic, but this has a much deeper and more discriminatory action.

The debate went with spinner like this:

Its acceptable to have nipple protuding through a bikini top, but a pic of a horse th0ng is sexually explicit.

Also last round vertical curves gal had a huge pair of heaving breasts yet this was acceptable.

I don't mind the ruling being applied, but there have been and will be many pics of ladies in th0ngs this round. Why is it unacceptable for a male in a th0ng in a animated gif?

I do find the situation rather laughable. I get told my pic is unacceptable, yet most female pics are acceptble. Most of the women I have talked to agree that this is a unfair application of the rules.

I would also ask why the hell someone who dances rather badly in a comedy th0ng is less acceptable that a pouting woman in a th0ng bikini pouting and heaving breastage is acceptable rolling in the sand.

I am sorry to say that I think if such silly rulings are to be amde that this is applied consistently and all th0ng pics are removed.

Sorry about raising this thread here, but I am at work so i am unable to raise this by irc.
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Last edited by Rumad; 28 May 2003 at 14:19.
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:16   #2
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ban all of them

especialy the vertical curves one.
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:21   #3
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Re: ban all of them

Quote:
Originally posted by Chax
especialy the vertical curves one.
I ma easy with which way it goes, I do think there is a double standard being used atm.

If teh rules apply to one it should apply to ALL
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:21   #4
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*sigh*

Rumad, i've told you exactly what we're doing about this. I had intended to keep this between you and me, but it seems you want it to go public so i'll explain again.
Near the end of last round, the admins got together and devised a new set of rules for galaxy banners, as people were so readily bending the rules last round (especially with regards to how much you can 'show' before we delete a banner). This round, we've decided to be especially vigilant about these rules, but having not started the sweeps yet, we have only been responding to gal banners we've been pointed to - yours was one of them, and we found it unsuitable, so we reset it. Is there really need for all this? I've tried to sort it out with you privately, so i don't see why you have to try and darken PAteam's name further on the forums.
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:25   #5
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Re: *sigh*

Quote:
Originally posted by Mushroom
Rumad, i've told you exactly what we're doing about this. I had intended to keep this between you and me, but it seems you want it to go public so i'll explain again.
Near the end of last round, the admins got together and devised a new set of rules for galaxy banners, as people were so readily bending the rules last round (especially with regards to how much you can 'show' before we delete a banner). This round, we've decided to be especially vigilant about these rules, but having not started the sweeps yet, we have only been responding to gal banners we've been pointed to - yours was one of them, and we found it unsuitable, so we reset it.
Seems a pretty clear answer to me.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mushroom

Is there really need for all this? I've tried to sort it out with you privately, so i don't see why you have to try and darken PAteam's name further on the forums.
Attention, meet whore, whore, meet attention.
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:27   #6
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Re: *sigh*

Quote:
Originally posted by Mushroom
Rumad, i've told you exactly what we're doing about this. I had intended to keep this between you and me, but it seems you want it to go public so i'll explain again.
Near the end of last round, the admins got together and devised a new set of rules for galaxy banners, as people were so readily bending the rules last round (especially with regards to how much you can 'show' before we delete a banner). This round, we've decided to be especially vigilant about these rules, but having not started the sweeps yet, we have only been responding to gal banners we've been pointed to - yours was one of them, and we found it unsuitable, so we reset it. Is there really need for all this? I've tried to sort it out with you privately, so i don't see why you have to try and darken PAteam's name (as you know as well as i do that there's nothing the boards seem to like more than an anti-PAteam bandwagon...)
Yes teh rules are fine - i am asking for the even application of those rules. If my th0ng pic is offensive ALL th0ng pics are probably offensive. I do not see any sort of consistency and I think you should have stable rules where usch judgements from people with double standards are not needed.

Was tehre a need for this? Yes I think so - and I will be reporting every th0ng pic I see in future. I am sorry to see planetarion come to this where a banner which has been placed as a link on these boards is unacceptable for in game.

Its laughable that you have removed a pic which compared to some of the gal banners of women kissing, protruding nipples or heaving breasts.

I think if you are to apply this sort of ruling then apply it across the board, not just to a pic which doesnt appeal to standards which you can justify.
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:29   #7
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Re: Re: *sigh*

Quote:
Originally posted by Rumad
Its laughable that you have removed a pic which compared to some of the gal banners of women kissing, protruding nipples or heaving breasts.

I think if you are to apply this sort of ruling then apply it across the board, not just to a pic which doesnt appeal to standards which you can justify.
Did you actually read half of what he said?
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:29   #8
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Re: Re: *sigh*

Quote:
Originally posted by Petru
Seems a pretty clear answer to me.



Attention, meet whore, whore, meet attention.
firstly the rules may be clear, but as spinner pointed out last night to me this is based on a judgement call by the admin staff. This allows for double standards, due to someone deciding that something is acceptable and something isn't acceptable.

All I am asking for is that there is a more even handed use of teh rules.

Secondly I think I can find far more things to get better attention. I am agry at the double standard employed here.
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:30   #9
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"If you find an "unsuitable" gal-pic, report it and it will be deleted"
is what mushroom just said.
So instead of making an ass of yourself here (again? ) spend your time finding norty banners and reporting them
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:30   #10
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Re: Re: Re: *sigh*

Quote:
Originally posted by Rumad
firstly the rules may be clear, but as spinner pointed out last night to me this is based on a judgement call by the admin staff.
This has always been the case in practically every rule based system though. Opinion plays and has played a huge part in the rulings of this game and everything in life, nothings going to change that.
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:34   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by SYMM
"If you find an "unsuitable" gal-pic, report it and it will be deleted"
is what mushroom just said.
So instead of making an ass of yourself here (again? ) spend your time finding norty banners and reporting them
Your right if teh admin in question agree's.

I am fine that my picture was deleted, however I am miffed at the lack of even handedness as which is employed.

I can introduce you to several women that would find a woman in a bikini as offensive, yet the admins are indeed mainly male and I am guessing that would not see teh harm in this.

The rules are fine, all i ma pointing out is that there always has been a lack fo consistency. This needs erradicating. It can be dne by slightly loosening the rules or my evenly applying the current rules.

However I do believe that this needed highlighting especially as I am angry and the uneven application of this ruling.
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:35   #12
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heh

firstly, for your accusation of "double standards" - of course when something comes down to opinion there will be differences, however (as i explained to you in private) in this case, Spinner thought the banner was borderline and other PAteam people who got involved in the discussion thought it was inappropriate. It's not a case of someone saying "oh it's fine" and another person saying "no, it's not", like you make out.

secondly, if you find a banner you disagree with, please report it, in fact, that's what you're meant to do! [email protected]! My PA mail! Anything It makes it easier for us to do the job when people do.

thirdly, it will take time to get consistency. We've only reset 4 banners since signups were opened! If that were a scientific experiment you'd have to do at least another 6 to get any bearing on how 'consistent' something was.
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:35   #13
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Re: Re: Re: Re: *sigh*

Quote:
Originally posted by Petru
This has always been the case in practically every rule based system though. Opinion plays and has played a huge part in the rulings of this game and everything in life, nothings going to change that.
yes but not when someone can justify pictures. This needs to be more black and white. The system is very discriminatory in my opinion.
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:36   #14
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Re: heh

Quote:
Originally posted by Mushroom
firstly, for your accusation of "double standards" - of course when something comes down to opinion there will be differences, however (as i explained to you in private) in this case, Spinner thought the banner was borderline and other PAteam people who got involved in the discussion thought it was inappropriate. It's not a case of someone saying "oh it's fine" and another person saying "no, it's not", like you make out.

secondly, if you find a banner you disagree with, please report it, in fact, that's what you're meant to do! [email protected]! My PA mail! Anything It makes it easier for us to do the job when people do.
I will be reporting every pic i see in a th0ng from now on and i will expect them to be removed.
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:37   #15
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Its not a difficult concept.

At the moment, PA-team have stuff to do other than check gal-banners.

If someone sees a banner they think is offensive, they report it, it gets dealt with.

Someone saw your banner, found it offensive, it was deleted.

If you want another banner deleted, then you report it, and it should be deleted.

If you do that, and it is not resolved to your satisfaction, PM an admin-person, and talk to them, instead of being an idiot and brining it up here, where it makes you look like an attention seeking muppet.
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:38   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by SYMM
Its not a difficult concept.

At the moment, PA-team have stuff to do other than check gal-banners.

If someone sees a banner they think is offensive, they report it, it gets dealt with.

Someone saw your banner, found it offensive, it was deleted.

If you want another banner deleted, then you report it, and it should be deleted.

If you do that, and it is not resolved to your satisfaction, PM an admin-person, and talk to them, instead of being an idiot and brining it up here, where it makes you look like an attention seeking muppet.
Yes your quite right

However i asked spinner what he thought prior to putting it up which makes this pic deletion even more pathetic imo.
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:40   #17
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Re: Re: heh

Quote:
Originally posted by Rumad
I will be reporting every pic i see in a th0ng from now on and i will expect them to be removed.
It is still down to our decision in the end, but if a pic is obviously breaking the rules and/or being about as tasteful as a Macdonald's coke, it will be removed.
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:43   #18
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Re: Re: Re: heh

Quote:
Originally posted by Mushroom
It is still down to our decision in the end, but if a pic is obviously breaking the rules and/or being about as tasteful as a Macdonald's coke, it will be removed.
astounding.

Spinenr allows a pic you delete it yet it was "borderline".

I asked him specifically if he thought the pic was ok - I dont play games and he said put it up so i did. Now I am being told its opinion based which si great, but ahardly allows acceptable standards for all.

Apply the rules evenly, atm its too subjective because the rules are very grey.

As I say I am easy about how the rules are applied but if they are to be applied in such a manner all th0ng pics should be removed. Its not aceptable to say its ok for one sex and not for a 20 something who is overweight and unattractive and done in jest.
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:45   #19
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally posted by Rumad
However I do believe that this needed highlighting especially as I am angry and the uneven application of this ruling.
PA's only consistency is their inconsistency--it's their strongest suit. How could anyone be surprised by this?
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:45   #20
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It wouldn't be a round of PA without rumad complaining about something would it heh?






PS On a slightly different note does anyone know where I could find the rules for planet names? I had a look on the portal but I couldn't see anything :(
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:46   #21
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1. comparing this round to last won't work, as mush said they've decided to be more dilligent.
2. Take it to PM if you really want to pursue it (with an admin, not me )
3. ITS A FRIGGIN GAL BANNER, go do something constructive with your time
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:46   #22
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i've removed

a further 2 as you were writing that...
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:51   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by SYMM
1. comparing this round to last won't work, as mush said they've decided to be more dilligent.
2. Take it to PM if you really want to pursue it (with an admin, not me )
3. ITS A FRIGGIN GAL BANNER, go do something constructive with your time
I am comparing it to the way in which the standards are applied , niot the standards.

I have already explained I cannot get on irc and I also believe its a problem which needs highlighting to the wider community.

Its a gal banner, but why is it acceptable for scantily clad ladies and not for a overweght guy who clearly isnt trying to be sexual in anyway whatsoever.

I want consistency and I dont think unless something changes that this will be evenly applied all round, which makes teh actions discriminatory.

As i say even handed approach is fine. I just want to make sure there is consistency accross the board.
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:54   #24
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heh

just ignore everything i've written then
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:54   #25
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:54   #26
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all this over a gal picture lol?
ok ive read the 2/3 of this thread and no need to read the rest its just going around in circles,your banner got deleted your moaning about how the rules are applyed,an admin has offer'd you a solution,you dont like it

end of thread?
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:58   #27
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Quote:
I am comparing it to the way in which the standards are applied , niot the standards.
thats what i was talking about

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Its a gal banner, but why is it acceptable for scantily clad ladies and not for a overweght guy who clearly isnt trying to be sexual in anyway whatsoever.
Noone is saying that, if you would actually read.
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but having not started the sweeps yet, we have only been responding to gal banners we've been pointed to - yours was one of them, and we found it unsuitable, so we reset it.
see? all the bad people aren't just out to get you, you were just unlucky

Quote:
I want consistency and I dont think unless something changes that this will be evenly applied all round, which makes teh actions discriminatory.
There have been 6 banners reset(according to mush...). How could anything from that be deemed consistent or inconsistent?

Quote:
As i say even handed approach is fine. I just want to make sure there is consistency accross the board.
And you thought posting this would help?
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Unread 28 May 2003, 14:59   #28
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Re: heh

Quote:
Originally posted by Mushroom
just ignore everything i've written then
Mushroom I dont believe I am. However you are not teh only person who will be making judgement call on this.

I appreciate that you may have higher standards or a more even application, however there is a team that are responsible for this. I am merely pointing out taht even spinner has double standards.

You will find some things acceptable being a man that a woman will find less acceptable. However does that mean you have the correct judgement in the situation?

Simply I am glad to see you doing some effort now deleting some offensive material, however I want to see this evenly applied.

There wasn't anything pornographic about the picture. I wasn't rubbing my nipples or gyrating i was dancing like a telly tubbie or something equally pathetic.

I want to see a more even application of the rule to ensure that all pics which are clearly dressed ina th0ng, which seems to be unaceptable shoudl be deleted.

Again please dont think this is about you wholly - this has much wider implications than my discussions with you.
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Unread 28 May 2003, 15:06   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by SYMM
thats what i was talking about


Noone is saying that, if you would actually read.

see? all the bad people aren't just out to get you, you were just unlucky


There have been 6 banners reset(according to mush...). How could anything from that be deemed consistent or inconsistent?


And you thought posting this would help?
Firstly this so isn't about my pic. However I do disagree that its sexual.

I also think that the application of the ruling with sweeps are fine, however this isn't fine when you consider the same ppl will be using there opinion to allow a pic.

You ask several females if they like scantily clad women. And ask what they think of my th0ng pic. Most would and have responded in that the humour value is good.

Now on the value judgement of spinner last night the pic was aceptable which is why the pic was put up. Yet this morning it isn't.

That is clearly a double standard. This sort of misapplication of the ruling will occur and occur again unless the ruling is applied more evenly.

Judgement will allow for mistakes and double standards. All i want to see is a stable standard, not Hypocrisy.
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Unread 28 May 2003, 15:08   #30
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hmm

There is now something in the MOTD reminding all players of the rules about galaxy banners and names. I hope people will take heed of that, but if they don't, the admins will work together to deal with them as consistently as possible. We do usually work as a team you know, rather than individuals on the same task, however when i wasn't around Spinner gave a sort of judgement on his own, which differed from the other people who work on the banners, hence this mess. It's no more his fault than mine, as i am primarily in charge of the banner admin, and it was me who reset your banner. However, i do hope you will believe us when we say we are committed to enforcing the rules, and after this case we will make sure we do it as even handedly as we can.

Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.



PS. We never said that your banner was sexual, we just found it inappropriate for a gal banner.
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Unread 28 May 2003, 15:16   #31
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Re: hmm

Quote:
Originally posted by Mushroom
There is now something in the MOTD reminding all players of the rules about galaxy banners and names. I hope people will take heed of that, but if they don't, the admins will work together to deal with them as consistently as possible. We do usually work as a team you know, rather than individuals on the same task, however when i wasn't around Spinner gave a sort of judgement on his own, which differed from the other people who work on the banners, hence this mess. It's no more his fault than mine, as i am primarily in charge of the banner admin, and it was me who reset your banner. However, i do hope you will believe us when we say we are committed to enforcing the rules, and after this case we will make sure we do it as even handedly as we can.

Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.



PS. We never said that your banner was sexual, we just found it inappropriate for a gal banner.
Yes but why are so many scantily clad women pics classed as acceptable then?

This rule will be misapplied several times during the round. I know several women that will consistently now report pics they find offensive for the rest of the round.

They find those sort of pics unacceptbale because they are female. What right do you have to impose what is and what isnt acceptable.

I read teh banenr rules and I think they are very grey. When it comes to women and men pics perhaps ratehr than saying pornographic or offensive that you set a balck and white standard.

I believe that my animated pic is no worse than a woman rubbing her bikini top or lying on the beach with breasts heaving out.

As I say I understand where you are coming from with the picture deletion all I want is a even and fair application of those rule sto ensure that all galaxy banners are deleted of a similar ilk.

Simply the fact is that you have and most probably will allow th0ng pics in future, but why are they more acceptable than that of my pic?
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Unread 28 May 2003, 15:24   #32
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I've seen Rumad's thong pics and they scarred me for life

/me goes off to find some thong pics to report.
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Unread 28 May 2003, 15:37   #33
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Rumad...

we've searched the universe (or at least most of it) and there's barely (if you'll forgive the pun) a scantily clad woman around, banner wise. And the ones that were there aren't there any longer. What else do you want me to do... self flagellation?!
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Unread 28 May 2003, 15:44   #34
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girls in gal pics is so round 2
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Unread 28 May 2003, 15:52   #35
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Re: Rumad...

Quote:
Originally posted by Mushroom
we've searched the universe (or at least most of it) and there's barely (if you'll forgive the pun) a scantily clad woman around, banner wise. And the ones that were there aren't there any longer. What else do you want me to do... self flagellation?!
nope just make sure its consistently processed for the rest of the round :-)

Teh self flagellation comment did make me laugh though ;-)
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Unread 28 May 2003, 15:53   #36
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Unread 28 May 2003, 16:12   #37
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Re: Re: Rumad...

Quote:
Originally posted by Rumad
nope just make sure its consistently processed for the rest of the round :-)
I've already tried to tell you that's what i'll do about three times, but never mind
Now we just have to wait for the complaints to come flying in that we're being too harsh, but, as we already know, we can't please everyone!

And personally i agree with LaNiCoR
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Unread 28 May 2003, 17:03   #38
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This is where I now delve into the controversy and say that personally, I couldn't see any problems with the banners around last round. And as for Rumads thong dance, you cannot deny that whilst yes, it is disgusting, it is still comical. I do think though that this could be a case of political correctness rearing its ugly head inside PA.
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Unread 28 May 2003, 19:08   #39
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Is hard core porn acceptable as a banner?

Apparently so, cos if you're a hirr galaxy it's OK to have a hard core Pr0n banner in R9, as discussed in this thread on GD, using a clever IE trick to distort the image and reveal Pr0n!

Last edited by Woof; 28 May 2003 at 19:19.
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Unread 28 May 2003, 20:04   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Woof
Is hard core porn acceptable as a banner?

Apparently so, cos if you're a hirr galaxy it's OK to have a hard core Pr0n banner in R9, as discussed in this thread on GD, using a clever IE trick to distort the image and reveal Pr0n!
We're especially on the look out for those sorts of banners this round.
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Unread 28 May 2003, 20:28   #41
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Unread 28 May 2003, 20:35   #42
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I'm not sure what the hubub is about really....

I'm fairly sure PA staff have much better to do than scan gal pics to see if there's something inappropriate, hence, they wait for people to send them note of something inappropriate..which makes perfect sense. once they get that note, they deal with it, which is either remove, or leave it there.


They are trying their best I'm sure. I don't know of any software that measures the appropriateness of a pic. That would be a neat trick.

Nuf with the whining. So your thong pic got taken down. Girl thong pics will be taken down too as they see them. sheesh.
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