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20 Aug 2008, 19:45
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#1
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speCTacular
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: H0lland
Posts: 126
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Capping roids
What is up with capping roids? I capped 8M 11C 19E today and target had M102 C100 E100 roids before getting roided.
At this rate my roid ratio is gonna be way out of wack in no time, if it isn't already.
(surprised nobody posted about this yet?)
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R22 t/m 26 ToF
R27 t/m 28 CT
R29 CT BC
R30 BREAK
RuBBeR has a speCTacular aura about
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20 Aug 2008, 19:57
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 255
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Re: Capping roids
this was a bug that got fixed this morning at some point, so as far as we know it should be fixed now.
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[F-Crew], Wolfpack, Destiny, Urwins, Ascendancy & Jenova
-Cead
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20 Aug 2008, 20:00
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#3
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speCTacular
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: H0lland
Posts: 126
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Re: Capping roids
guess it's not fixed then
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R22 t/m 26 ToF
R27 t/m 28 CT
R29 CT BC
R30 BREAK
RuBBeR has a speCTacular aura about
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20 Aug 2008, 20:00
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 255
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Re: Capping roids
when did you cap?
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[F-Crew], Wolfpack, Destiny, Urwins, Ascendancy & Jenova
-Cead
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20 Aug 2008, 20:15
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#5
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speCTacular
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: H0lland
Posts: 126
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Re: Capping roids
tick 90
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R22 t/m 26 ToF
R27 t/m 28 CT
R29 CT BC
R30 BREAK
RuBBeR has a speCTacular aura about
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20 Aug 2008, 20:24
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 255
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Re: Capping roids
when i said this morning, i really meant early afternoon.
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[F-Crew], Wolfpack, Destiny, Urwins, Ascendancy & Jenova
-Cead
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20 Aug 2008, 20:26
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#7
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speCTacular
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: H0lland
Posts: 126
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Re: Capping roids
k np, let's see what happens tomorrow
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R22 t/m 26 ToF
R27 t/m 28 CT
R29 CT BC
R30 BREAK
RuBBeR has a speCTacular aura about
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20 Aug 2008, 21:34
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 499
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Re: Capping roids
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadrath
when i said this morning, i really meant early afternoon.
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Signs of a good PA lifestyle.
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Founder and HC of [Denial] and [Evolution]
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20 Aug 2008, 21:56
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#9
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Apprime Troll HC
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 857
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Re: Capping roids
i actually liked it! it made me laugh a bit when someone capped only metal and eonium from my scannerplanet
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21 Aug 2008, 17:40
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 846
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Re: Capping roids
and how the hell could this bug pop up right in the blue? this should be one of the easiest thing to discover in the beta
nubs
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21 Aug 2008, 17:47
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#11
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Capping roids
It was discovered in beta (again and again and again...), just not fixed.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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21 Aug 2008, 18:58
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 846
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Re: Capping roids
even more depressing then :/
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21 Aug 2008, 19:31
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#13
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Come Closer, I Have Candy
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Vast Regions of Space Without a Lifejacket
Posts: 213
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Re: Capping roids
Hell, I thought thats how it was supposed to be
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MetallicAnomaly
[ROCK] || Conspiracy Theory || Ascendancy
Rounds Played: 3-9 16-19 23-33
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity.
- Edgar Allan Poe
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21 Aug 2008, 21:53
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#14
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Insomniac
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
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Re: Capping roids
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
It was discovered in beta (again and again and again...), just not fixed.
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Oh dear god...
confidence will soon be suffering a negative integer overflow :/
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21 Aug 2008, 22:07
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#15
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Insomniac
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
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Re: Capping roids
Ok, i'm looking at the r28 changelog trying to find a logical explaination ( after all, simple ratios arent exactly at a quantum physics level of difficulty ) and i cant see any tinkering with the combat engine mentioned so either this bug existed in r27 as well or its been introduced as part of 'a new feature' and simply not announced.
or of course simply introduced by accident - which is my bet.
Either way, if it was discovered again and again and again in the beta ( and presumably reported again and again and again ) it really is shocking that it wasn't fixed or announced if its intended
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21 Aug 2008, 22:10
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#16
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Capping roids
From what I've been able to piece together (though I haven't spent much time digging around so I might be wrong), the combat engine was indeed tinkered with, in an attempt to fix a known bug with stealing. While I think the original bug has been fixed, two new ones were introduced in the process. A new bug with stealing (something about two stealing ships firing at each other at the same init, iirc), and the roid capping one.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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21 Aug 2008, 22:11
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#17
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Insomniac
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
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Re: Capping roids
*sigh*
do i need to mention unit testing once again developers?
i've done it god knows how many times already :/
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22 Aug 2008, 20:55
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#18
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Save energy: Be apathetic
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 228
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Re: Capping roids
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubert Samson
Hell, I thought thats how it was supposed to be
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Generally speaking, that's what devs always say when they screw up.
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Ascendancy - Land'n'Crash Inc.
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29 Aug 2008, 01:06
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#19
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I see you!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In any girl
Posts: 2,825
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Re: Capping roids
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
It was discovered in beta (again and again and again...), just not fixed.
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The Charm of Planetarion, I believe it is called.
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30 Aug 2008, 17:37
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#20
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not the daddy...
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Chino Hills, CA.
Posts: 117
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Re: Capping roids
Would be nice if the cap leaned toward race resource needs.
Being Zik, I wouldn't mind a larger E take on my attacks. As of now, equal roids mean M and C getting dumped in gal fund as donation...or losing 5% on trade for E.
Race specific caps would also lead to some interesting supply and demand.
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Discussions in general...
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30 Aug 2008, 22:42
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 255
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Re: Capping roids
it would also get rid of their being any reward for actively planning during the round, to make sure you don't have shit res split.
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[F-Crew], Wolfpack, Destiny, Urwins, Ascendancy & Jenova
-Cead
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31 Aug 2008, 00:03
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#22
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Capping roids
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadrath
it would also get rid of their being any reward for actively planning during the round, to make sure you don't have shit res split.
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What are you talking about.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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31 Aug 2008, 14:15
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 255
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Re: Capping roids
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malice
Being Zik, I wouldn't mind a larger E take on my attacks. As of now, equal roids mean M and C getting dumped in gal fund as donation...or losing 5% on trade for E.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cead
it would also get rid of their being any reward for actively planning during the round, to make sure you don't have shit res split.
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If your any race but xan your going to need more of one resource, the more you 'plan' to negate the discrepancy between your resources then the more value you get out of your roids. If you don't build any refineries you have a larger inbalance for ship production, so you lose more resources on the gal/ally trading tax, if you don't have a mod and sufficient fund that you can trade with then your losing resources paying a much higher conversion cost trading with the universe.
Hence theirs a clear benefit to people that plan/organise these things over those that dont, making roid cap favour your races need for resources would make this 'skill' (as basic as it is) worthless.
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[F-Crew], Wolfpack, Destiny, Urwins, Ascendancy & Jenova
-Cead
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31 Aug 2008, 14:42
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#24
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Capping roids
So you end up paying a 5% tax rate over the 5% of your income you'll end up trading (at the most!), that's a loss of 0.25% of your total income. That's 1 out of every 400 roids or a fourth of what your alliance asks for scans. Utterly insignificant.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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31 Aug 2008, 15:32
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 255
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Re: Capping roids
well, considering some ships require 25% more of one res your going to be trading more than 5% of total income in some circumstances. And the 5% gal trading tax is if you actually have a active mod and invest the initial resources, which would come under the 'planning' i mentioned. The default 25% is going to take a much larger percentage of your income.
As far as being an insignificant amount, people still make the effort to go etd before tick start to get that cheaper trade, so every little really does count
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[F-Crew], Wolfpack, Destiny, Urwins, Ascendancy & Jenova
-Cead
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31 Aug 2008, 16:41
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#26
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Capping roids
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadrath
well, considering some ships require 25% more of one res your going to be trading more than 5% of total income in some circumstances. And the 5% gal trading tax is if you actually have a active mod and invest the initial resources, which would come under the 'planning' i mentioned. The default 25% is going to take a much larger percentage of your income.
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On the contrary. Let us assume that you get income in a ratio of 1:1:1, just to keep things simple; no refineries, no bad roiding. On average (ignoring SKs and pods), there's a ratio of 1.18:1 between the highest and lowest resources. Taking taxes into account, this means that if you exchange 5.91% of your 2 lowest resources into the higher resource, you get the desired ratio. Obviously you only need to exchange 2 of the resources (into the third), so 5.91% of 2/3 of your income makes 3.94% of your total income. You lose 5% of that, which is a shocking 0.197% of your total income, or 1 in 507 roids.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadrath
As far as being an insignificant amount, people still make the effort to go etd before tick start to get that cheaper trade, so every little really does count
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No galfund at round start. 25%
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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31 Aug 2008, 20:21
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#27
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;D!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
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Re: Capping roids
Tbh, why not just obliterate resource types? Have 'asteroids' and 'resources'.
M/C/E are looked at fondly by a lot of people, so instead you could keep the different types of roids, give each race abonus to mining (eg terran get 12% bonus to M, xan get 4% each to M/C/E...), but they're converted straight to 'resources'.
Wouldn't affect the gameplay and would remove 2 pointless columns on the stats tables; making them look less intimidating.
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[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
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31 Aug 2008, 22:27
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#28
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Apprime Troll HC
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 857
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Re: Capping roids
or just remove all resource-types and just call it all "CASH"
.problem solved. or do we really need m/c/e now that the ships doesnt even need any fuel to fly?
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31 Aug 2008, 22:33
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#29
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Capping roids
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
Tbh, why not just obliterate resource types? Have 'asteroids' and 'resources'.
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Personally, I am not particularly attached to resource types. As said above, it has little impact on ship production, and for everything else an equal cost in each resource type is used. Replacing the 3 resources with a single currency wouldn't harm the game while removing two useless variables from it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
M/C/E are looked at fondly by a lot of people, so instead you could keep the different types of roids, give each race abonus to mining (eg terran get 12% bonus to M, xan get 4% each to M/C/E...), but they're converted straight to 'resources'.
Wouldn't affect the gameplay and would remove 2 pointless columns on the stats tables; making them look less intimidating.
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Wrong, Bonuses of the type you suggest will dumb the game down, unlike simple removal. It would result in a notable decrease in interaction between different races (no point in roiding a race which mostly has roids you can't mine as effectively), creating boring "who has more war frigates" combat.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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31 Aug 2008, 22:41
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#30
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;D!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
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Re: Capping roids
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Wrong, Bonuses of the type you suggest will dumb the game down, unlike simple removal. It would result in a notable decrease in interaction between different races (no point in roiding a race which mostly has roids you can't mine as effectively), creating boring "who has more war frigates" combat.
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The bonuses should be much lower but the concept is there to maintain the current 'dynamic' which already slightly favours roiding your own race.
I prefer the first option, but people whine whenever you try and change anything. The second may be more palatable (albeit with an order-of-magnitude-lower mining bonus or something).
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[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
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31 Aug 2008, 22:56
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#31
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Capping roids
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
The bonuses should be much lower but the concept is there to maintain the current 'dynamic' which already slightly favours roiding your own race.
I prefer the first option, but people whine whenever you try and change anything. The second may be more palatable (albeit with an order-of-magnitude-lower mining bonus or something).
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As said above, the impact is negligible. If you're suggesting setting the bonuses as low as that, I wouldn't bother implementing them at all.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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31 Aug 2008, 23:02
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#32
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;D!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
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Re: Capping roids
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
As said above, the impact is negligible. If you're suggesting setting the bonuses as low as that, I wouldn't bother implementing them at all.
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Me neither (like I said).
It was just a suggestion that others may be happier with.
EDIT: And whilst we're at it, condense guns/dmg so we can get rid of another column. The stats tables are pretty ugly right now.
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[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
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31 Aug 2008, 23:08
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#33
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Capping roids
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
people whine whenever you try and change anything.
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While this is true, your suggestion of bonuses is actually a bigger change than removing resources altogether. Yet people will support it. Pretty ironic, isn't it?
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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