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Unread 24 Feb 2007, 23:42   #1
Troll
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Mid round Review

Given the huge out cry about the stats at the beginning of the round, how have things progressed? Are these still the worst stats in the known PA universe? Did things happen as you thought they would?

Personally I went Zik and I thought at first that this was going to be a horrible round for Ziks with the lack of endless stealing and being able to gobble up value like a Pac man on drugs. However I am enjoying the change somewhat. It does require more thinking and dedication on the players part as you find your self setting traps for incoming rather than building ships to keep the incoming away. The balance of Cost Efficiency helped a lot, I think this was a good balance although I do believe that in some cases it should be a bit higher. After all if your going to shoot last and lose your ships when they shoot you should be able to kill enough to make up for some of your loses.

I find the lack of a ship class per race to be arbitrary and forced. At the very least I think that Zikonians should be able to make every ship class so that they can adapt there strategy and flak the pods they steal. Stealing CO as zik is next to pointless this round because you can’t build any flak, to top it off Cath co is the bane of a ziks existence. If you insit on removing some ship classes from a race then at least make them on a rational point. Xans not having CR and BS makes sense due to how the race is structured. Continue that thought further and perhaps Terrans should not have Fi and Co.

Other than ETD becoming XP whores due to insanely powerful pods. I can’t really comment on the other races.

So someone fill me in.
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Unread 24 Feb 2007, 23:56   #2
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Re: Mid round Review

terran are awesome
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Unread 25 Feb 2007, 00:22   #3
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Re: Mid round Review

the stats are gay no more no less

well atleast it make the decision easier for lots of guys who plan to quit

good work whoever did the stats you truly got no clue about stats development
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Unread 25 Feb 2007, 01:55   #4
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Re: Mid round Review

As to quote my fleet name.

WRAITH OWN XAN I KNOW.


*sighs* some of the worst shipstats ever imo. its near impossible to xp whore as xan as its near impossible to actully ****ing land.

God damn Rogue/Harpy/Wraith..
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Unread 25 Feb 2007, 10:43   #5
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Re: Mid round Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll
If you insit on removing some ship classes from a race then at least make them on a rational point. Xans not having CR and BS makes sense due to how the race is structured. Continue that thought further and perhaps Terrans should not have Fi and Co.
The problem with removing FI and CO from a Terran fleet is that it gives the race no ETA 8 universal defence ships. At all. Thus, you force the race into only defending against FR+, which may or may not be a good thing or carried out already - the point is that removing all the ships from such important classes means that Terrans would potentially become less useful for alliances.

I understand what you are trying to say, and yes it would make alot of sense. But i'm not sure that with any race - terrans in particular - it would actually be benefitical to removing all types in that ETA range. I could handle cutting it down to 1, however.
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Unread 25 Feb 2007, 11:00   #6
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Re: Mid round Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandmans PT 662
Top100:
7 Terrans
27 Cathaars
17 Xandathrii
15 Zikonian
34 Eitrades

Half of the top10 consist of more or less XP-orientated eitrades players. There is one zikonian (which has a very strong alliance support), two xandathriis, and two cathaars in top10. Of the top10 value players, three are in top10 scorewise. One doesn't even fit top50. The top 50 XP rank consists of no less than 27 eitrades planets. Looking at average XP rates, Cathaar (6,722k per planet) and Eitrades (7,225k per planet) have a 2,000k XP per planet lead towards the others.
The data given shows enough. The statistics lean strongly towards XP play, and less defensive more offensive mentality. It's been discussed of a lot lately, and I've generally felt the people are interested in a very opposite direction, where effective defences could be reality, and there would be sense for an alliance to defend it's members instead of just having them all three-fleet at the best XP whore targets in the picks. In my opinion, the statistics are an utter failure.

This can be vividly elaborated that the fifth race possesses a battleship pod flak that shoots before three defships against it, and has terran armor to cap it. This makes it rather painful to defend, taking that the other def ships that function against it are in pod fleets. This is the kind of statistics building that makes it very difficult to defend roids with.

The whole necessity and balancing out the fifth race has been thought out poorly. It just causes more statistics hassle, and in my opinion, is the key trigger here that has lead to the XP orientation to the round. Even if it was a value round, the race would still be overpowered merely by the benefit of it's awesome racial abilities. If you compare it to an average terran, it's just. Well. The combat system certainly isn't getting more interesting (which this game is mainly about, the calculator called combat system, and the whirl around it) by adding a fifth race to make it even harder to create a set of statistics people would be happy with.

Mind you, I wouldn't be too agrieved over a less competent set of statistics granted the round favoured value and defensive play more. The reason why the XP formulae gets tweaked a lot constantly from when it was good (in my opinion, this would key at round 17, where XP would have an effect, but it would be very difficult to actually play it). Maybe this is some adminstrator fetish to micromanage some parts of the game to make it more tiddly-toodly.

I don't think forcing fast ships out of terrans would screw the race over, you would just put their defence ships on bigger classes shooting against bigger ships then. That's totally a matter of flavour. What it WOULD do though, is totally nullify the fighter hulls research for terrans. Xandathrii don't need to research siege weapons except for structure killers (right?), but terrans would have a zero win research right first up in line.

I'm not whining about xandathrii fighters being easily defended against. On an enviroment where eitrades wouldn't be so grossly overpowered, it wouldn't be such an issue. The cloak ability is powerful enough to neglect that at large. What the issue is, is that the statistics currently don't support defensive game at all, there are pod fleets for races that are just quite as useful as a once-used asswipe is, and the whole scheme combined with the ever-tweaked XP formulae fetish has lead to a round that could easily be a revamp of round 16 if someone was really arsed.

I don't believe anyone is.
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Unread 25 Feb 2007, 12:52   #7
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Re: Mid round Review

You keep talking of XP like its evil and shouldnt be here, but then i suppose your a old player of PA.
A rather biased reveiw of the round.
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Unread 25 Feb 2007, 13:06   #8
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Re: Mid round Review

Instead of just hitting me with two lines of text, perhaps try debating anything you say.

Let me elaborate. In my opinion, XP play is bad because it makes planetarion on a long run a very dull game to play. Players don't need to be active, there's little need for cooperation and coordination (which would be the key interest factor - really, a browser game by itself isn't going to keep anyone hooked for long). As round 16 has proven us, and as the current round is proving (seeing certain people on the top ranks who really don't... well, what newt did sure told enough), XP is in general an aspect of game play that decreases the need and cheese for cooperation.

Let me elaborate why.

An XP player doesn't need defences for anything. He just attacks, crashes or not, if he pays a little attention, he doesn't crash too bad, so he constantly has a stable fleet to attack with. He picks some targets, launches fleets, next time he wakes up to JG (if he can be arsed), lands, and pisses off again, maybe comes back to launch or not in the evening.

If this is the direction you want planetarion to develop into, then that's your opinion. What the point is, is that teamwork is the heart of Planetarion, in my opinion (do argue if you disagree, please). As explained, very XP-orientated gameplay greatly decreases the role of teamplay (do argue if you disagree, please). This leads to the game being less attractive, among a lot of other things that have caused the decline in the playerbase, which probably is beyond repair anyways. Please, do argue your opinions instead of punching out useless two lines of "OH DEAR OLD SCHOOL PLANETARION PLAYER ON AN ANTI-XP TRIP AGAIN HAHAHA WHAT A MORON". Or just fck off.
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Unread 25 Feb 2007, 14:07   #9
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Re: Mid round Review

Ok well
Quote:
XP play is bad because it makes planetarion on a long run a very dull game to play
Long run?
the round is 7 weeks long, now id say thats a pretty short amount of time.
And i dont think it makes it dull, i actually find it good to see the people who have just joined the game to go "Masta, i gained 120k score on the attack!! " It makes me feel good that i helped these people have fun in the game and hopefully become repeat customers.
Quote:
there's little need for cooperation and coordination
There is a need for cooperation because you are more likely to land successfully when you attack with another person, or another 10 people, or 20. There are quite a few in Orbit who play xp, and they are more friendly than ive seen in most value players. Thats probably because we dont get all the crap about def leeching to save roids etc
Quote:
An XP player doesn't need defences for anything. He just attacks, crashes or not
Ok so you havnt played xp recently, thats more like rd 16. Yes i know there are people who have massive xp and low value, but do you really think that that is because they launch there tiny fleets on there own? No escorts? I seriously doubt it.
To play xp now you have to have a level of value proportional to others, as people get more value it gets harder to find a target worth lots of xp, which you can actually land on. So xp players have to keep at least *some* roids to get the needed value to land successfully.
Quote:
next time he wakes up to JG (if he can be arsed),
If he can be arsed? im sorry are you still on round 19 stats? Because now you cant just go, "oh well he has defence, my pods fire first so it doesnt matter ill still cap" you actually have to check or lose ur fleet, which puts you out of the game for a couple of days. XP players in Orbit check their jgps just as much as value players, I'd say more so as they have to recalc it if they gfet defence, as to if it will be worth landing for the xp/fleet loss.
[/quote]As explained, very XP-orientated gameplay greatly decreases the role of teamplay [/quote]
Round 16 style XP did. Round 20 is different, xp isnt as strong and value is still needed to quite a large degree, but then because the round is shorter i suppose you could say that xp is a more easier way to play as value has less time to catch up.
Quote:
This leads to the game being less attractive,
Would you play a game where as soon as you started you relised you had no chance of reaching those upper ranks unless you played a couple more rounds? I know that most new players like to do well and value both the community and their performance in the game. Most people dont get into PA and become instantly good at the game, many need gently tutorage and need to learn some lessons the hard way.
Xp allows peopel to do this. Its the easy way to do *well* in the game, not to do great, but to do well.
Quote:
OH DEAR OLD SCHOOL PLANETARION PLAYER ON AN ANTI-XP TRIP AGAIN HAHAHA WHAT A MORON
Basically yes. It was a post agaisnt old players, people who think they know best because they have been playing the longest. New people know best how to attract new people, as they know what attarcted them in the first place and PA team could leanr from that, rather than listening to a small proportion of the community.
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Unread 25 Feb 2007, 14:37   #10
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Re: Mid round Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAsta_MArk
Long run?
the round is 7 weeks long, now id say thats a pretty short amount of time.
I did mention newt in my post did I not? What I was trying to say, at less than halfway into the round, the current #1 planet splashed his logins to #planetarion. Because he was bored of the round.

And he was leading. Ask any Ascendancy player who played round 16. XP whoring gets awfully dull on the long span - and a round is definately more than enough to count for a long span on these occasions. Yes, it's cool to get massive scores landing an attack. But once you realize, that in the enviroment currently played, the roids you gained are worth practically nothing, as it takes days and days for the roids capped to gain the score. And once you've gained the score/value through the roids, you want to get rid of it in order to gain other score heaps - through XP.

This is what Ascendancy did round 16, and I've heard them curse enough how dead boring it was.

And it might be fun for two three weeks until you realize that all you do is launch three fleets to attack on suitable targets, check JGs, and continue with it. You don't really need an alliance for it. It's proven by the current top10.

Quote:
There is a need for cooperation because you are more likely to land successfully when you attack with another person, or another 10 people, or 20. There are quite a few in Orbit who play xp, and they are more friendly than ive seen in most value players. Thats probably because we dont get all the crap about def leeching to save roids etc
So why don't we just disable defences and make it a full attack game? It's not like defending really is worth it.

Quote:
Ok so you havnt played xp recently, thats more like rd 16. Yes i know there are people who have massive xp and low value, but do you really think that that is because they launch there tiny fleets on there own? No escorts? I seriously doubt it.
HAHAHAH. My alliance includes the current #1 player, and I can bet my ass he definately gets no escorts nor defences. Actually, I suggested why we don't escort him just so he wins on low value and XP. Guess what they said?

He doesn't need it with his luck.

So, you seriously doubt it because you have never been arsed to go through the trouble of for example news scanning the current top XP player of the round and perhaps news scanning to see his targets too. Yes, he attacks alone. There aren't even organized galraids he'd join, he just attacks alone. So much for the need of cooperation, eh? Of course, until recently he achieved his own jump gate probes, he's been enjoying some scanner services.


Quote:
To play xp now you have to have a level of value proportional to others, as people get more value it gets harder to find a target worth lots of xp, which you can actually land on. So xp players have to keep at least *some* roids to get the needed value to land successfully.
I disagree. I'd say the current leader couldn't care less for roids, and his fleet is a very midget one. Yet he keeps landing attacks, and I'm willing to be he spends less than 20 minutes a day finding targets, launching, probing for defences, and either landing or not. Now, this is an incident I know very much better than you do.

Quote:
If he can be arsed? im sorry are you still on round 19 stats? Because now you cant just go, "oh well he has defence, my pods fire first so it doesnt matter ill still cap" you actually have to check or lose ur fleet, which puts you out of the game for a couple of days. XP players in Orbit check their jgps just as much as value players, I'd say more so as they have to recalc it if they gfet defence, as to if it will be worth landing for the xp/fleet loss.

Yeah, XP players here check their JGs too, occasionally. They just sleep well and can't be arsed to worry about defences, roid loss, or a few dead ships, as they know they need very little fleet (something that can be quickly generated on a very little roids) in order to gain massive amounts of score with very little trouble. And No, I'm not on r19 stats. I'm on r20 stats where any given eitrades can easily roid xandathriis up to three-four times their value if they've invested a lot in tycoons. The xandathrii won't have sufficient investments in shadows anyways. This is because of the ship statistics, as mentioned. The same applies pretty much to cruiser fleets, and terrans (, zikonians) and eitrades frigate fleets.

The point being.

XP playing can be very smoothly done attacking with the correct fleet, attacking alone, getting a JG, checking out. Again, this can be proven by the current top10, and by round 16. In the standing "best XP whore alliance" there has rarely (if ever?) been organized galraids, or in fact, anything organized save intel (which is frankly very unorganized).

Quote:
Round 16 style XP did. Round 20 is different, xp isnt as strong and value is still needed to quite a large degree, but then because the round is shorter i suppose you could say that xp is a more easier way to play as value has less time to catch up.
XP is equally strong. You might want to check Sandmans (compare it to round 16 final rankings or something if you feel unconvinced) for top planet rankings for this and see for yourself, you'd be surprised. The issue probably is, that there is no alliance at the moment who'd consist of 60 XP whoring players. And yes, value has less time to catch up, but since the beginning until now, there have been XP whores in the top ranks, and the amount is not on the decline as it "should" be with value catching up but actually it rises day by day.

Quote:
Would you play a game where as soon as you started you relised you had no chance of reaching those upper ranks unless you played a couple more rounds? I know that most new players like to do well and value both the community and their performance in the game. Most people dont get into PA and become instantly good at the game, many need gently tutorage and need to learn some lessons the hard way.
Yes, these are all good things, they like to do well in value, until they realize, that they can't do well in value. Or doing well in value results in them repeatedly raped by F-Crew 9-wave attacks whenever they reach 300+ roids, and with the current setup, there won't be much green on anyone's, save an average Orbit member's galstatus.

Quote:
Xp allows peopel to do this. Its the easy way to do *well* in the game, not to do great, but to do well.
With the current setup, as well as round 16, it is easier to do well and do great with XP than with value. Value results in a huge reliability to your roids and their output, and they're very volatile. There are very few planets that have been able to hold on to their roids for long, and these are almost without exception of a certain BG, or of alliance officers and staff.

The staff can work out hard nights arranging defences against the infamous 9-wave triplebooked raids. While they're on it, the #1 player is happily asleep. While they curse and swear (but perhaps enjoy the teamwork aspect of the game?) the #1 player snors. If they end up second to a lazy inactive fleet tossing XP whore in the end, the disappointment will be somewhat vast. If you remember what happened r16.

Quote:
Basically yes. It was a post agaisnt old players, people who think they know best because they have been playing the longest. New people know best how to attract new people, as they know what attarcted them in the first place and PA team could leanr from that, rather than listening to a small proportion of the community.
Yeah. The facts are, the largest and best paying proportion of the community has since ever consisted of the old players, and as Nadar on the other forum pointed out, it could be that the new system might have gotten rid of a lot of old players. And how much new blood did for example round 16 bring? It was a free round, there were lots of accounts, but the next round the numbers were down again. No, the "fun XP round" didn't really earn too many new paying customers.

It's unlikely at the end that changes in game mechanics would bring lots of new customers. This has been tried over and over again with little success. Also with the current kind of "attack attack attack don't defend get massive score gains through XP" -setup. It's more likely the changes in game mechanics would bring back old customers.
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Unread 25 Feb 2007, 16:10   #11
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Re: Mid round Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneh
As to quote my fleet name.

WRAITH OWN XAN I KNOW.


*sighs* some of the worst shipstats ever imo. its near impossible to xp whore as xan as its near impossible to actully ****ing land.

God damn Rogue/Harpy/Wraith..

Actually i find landing xan fi to be pretty easy, and i've lost count of the number of harpies that have died defending against them with wraith mixed in.

Though admittedly gaining huge xp is difficult, due mainly i feel to the huge number of vendors that the value heavy etd's have.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietaja
I'm on r20 stats where any given eitrades can easily roid xandathriis up to three-four times their value if they've invested a lot in tycoons. The xandathrii won't have sufficient investments in shadows anyways. This is because of the ship statistics, as mentioned. The same applies pretty much to cruiser fleets, and terrans (, zikonians) and eitrades frigate fleets.
I couldn't agree more. It's easily possible to roid way over your value by certain fleet compositions.

Another feature of the stats that i feel makes defending roids more difficult is the reliance on ships that make up attack fleets in defence. As xp has proved to be the much easier way of getting and keeping score, people are mainly 2 fleet attacking each night, this makes defence especially difficult when the most useful defence ships make up these attack fleets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietaja
Or doing well in value results in them repeatedly raped by F-Crew 9-wave attacks whenever they reach 300+ roids,
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Unread 25 Feb 2007, 17:02   #12
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Re: Mid round Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
I did mention newt in my post did I not? What I was trying to say, at less than halfway into the round, the current #1 planet splashed his logins to #planetarion. Because he was bored of the round.

And he was leading. Ask any Ascendancy player who played round 16. XP whoring gets awfully dull on the long span - and a round is definately more than enough to count for a long span on these occasions. Yes, it's cool to get massive scores landing an attack. But once you realize, that in the enviroment currently played, the roids you gained are worth practically nothing, as it takes days and days for the roids capped to gain the score. And once you've gained the score/value through the roids, you want to get rid of it in order to gain other score heaps - through XP.

This is what Ascendancy did round 16, and I've heard them curse enough how dead boring it was.

And it might be fun for two three weeks until you realize that all you do is launch three fleets to attack on suitable targets, check JGs, and continue with it. You don't really need an alliance for it. It's proven by the current top10.
The reason for boredom is not XP, though. The reason for boredom is that no matter which way you play, the game is too repetitive. Research and constructions do not increase the depth of the game, as they could if designed correctly (f.e. with a real techtree that allows decisions upon how you want to play).

On the other hand, the reason for currently being mainly xp whores in top 10 is that value players didnt have any time to really build up value yet. We have seen in the past rounds that value players slowly climb the rankings as they become less and less vulnerable to attacks, while being able to roid more and more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
So why don't we just disable defences and make it a full attack game? It's not like defending really is worth it.
Because ultimately, the game should be a war game, where you can get help from your allies. That defense is hard in the beginning is obvious, it tends to get easier when you have more ships available and it does tend to pay off in the long run.
The real problem here is once again that the game is badly designed, and yes, that renders defense fairly worthles. In old Planetarion you had the same issue with multiple waves of 1 class hitting a planet, but you were able to use the defense fleets much more efficient by having them defend up to twice the time a fleet could attack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
HAHAHAH. My alliance includes the current #1 player, and I can bet my ass he definately gets no escorts nor defences. Actually, I suggested why we don't escort him just so he wins on low value and XP. Guess what they said?

He doesn't need it with his luck.

So, you seriously doubt it because you have never been arsed to go through the trouble of for example news scanning the current top XP player of the round and perhaps news scanning to see his targets too. Yes, he attacks alone. There aren't even organized galraids he'd join, he just attacks alone. So much for the need of cooperation, eh? Of course, until recently he achieved his own jump gate probes, he's been enjoying some scanner services.
And what is wrong with being able to do well without having a huge support? Mind new, most new players looking at the game won't get a chance in a decent team so they simply have to try it on their own. PA's community is too hostile to newbies most of the time, because everyone is shit-scared that it's just a fake-nick trying to gather intel. Again, it might be that the required balance hasn't been achieved yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
The point being.

XP playing can be very smoothly done attacking with the correct fleet, attacking alone, getting a JG, checking out. Again, this can be proven by the current top10, and by round 16. In the standing "best XP whore alliance" there has rarely (if ever?) been organized galraids, or in fact, anything organized save intel (which is frankly very unorganized).
Of course we should not forget that round 16 had a totally different setup (with a far more rewarding xp formula and a broken bash limit that protected high-score planets). And if an alliance wants to consist of xp whores only, there is again nothing wrong with it, unless you manage to point me to the section of the manual where it says that "you have to send defense fleets and do galaxy raids if you want to sign up an alliance ingame". So far, alliances are just a group of individuals which share something, be it playing style, real life friendships or wives; and it's good that alliances are not restricted to anything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
XP is equally strong. You might want to check Sandmans (compare it to round 16 final rankings or something if you feel unconvinced) for top planet rankings for this and see for yourself, you'd be surprised. The issue probably is, that there is no alliance at the moment who'd consist of 60 XP whoring players. And yes, value has less time to catch up, but since the beginning until now, there have been XP whores in the top ranks, and the amount is not on the decline as it "should" be with value catching up but actually it rises day by day.
So, there are 42 top 100 value planets in the top 100 score ranking. That's quite ok. Especially when you consider that at the moment it is only 200k score difference between #150 and #60 in the universe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
*snip* ... lots of interesting and valid stuff about how the current game is ... *snip*
All this is mainly due to the small universe and the tendency of everyone to initiate less and less roids at the beginning of each round. Good targets become less and less available from round to round, and personally I think we're long past a point where something has to be done majorly revamped. And that doesn't mean the introduction of a new race. I am certain that next rounds changelog will determine how many people will actually be willed to sign up again. Right now it's throwing away money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
It's unlikely at the end that changes in game mechanics would bring lots of new customers. This has been tried over and over again with little success. Also with the current kind of "attack attack attack don't defend get massive score gains through XP" -setup. It's more likely the changes in game mechanics would bring back old customers.
No, what would bring back customers would be an atmospheric game which offers you sometihng that makes you want to play it. Right now Planetarion feels like the good old Gauntlet trying to compete with Diablo, Sacred, Dungeon Siege et al. It's been a nice game but it simply doesn't cut it anymore, due to a lack fo development.

To summarize my post:
I agree with a lot of things you said about how the current game is, I just disagree on blaming xp for the problems the game has. XP is problematic because the rest of the game mechanics fail, which is hugely related to the shrinking playerbase, which again is related to the boredom of each round.
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Unread 25 Feb 2007, 17:57   #13
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Re: Mid round Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
The reason for boredom is not XP, though. The reason for boredom is that no matter which way you play, the game is too repetitive. Research and constructions do not increase the depth of the game, as they could if designed correctly (f.e. with a real techtree that allows decisions upon how you want to play).
I agree that the XP play isn't the bottom reason to the boredom, but under the current mechanics it's the lowest you can get, really (in terms of repetitive and dull, as said).

Quote:
On the other hand, the reason for currently being mainly xp whores in top 10 is that value players didnt have any time to really build up value yet. We have seen in the past rounds that value players slowly climb the rankings as they become less and less vulnerable to attacks, while being able to roid more and more.
I guess we'll see how much climbing really happens, then. I'd say less.

Quote:
Because ultimately, the game should be a war game, where you can get help from your allies. That defense is hard in the beginning is obvious, it tends to get easier when you have more ships available and it does tend to pay off in the long run.
Yes, this was exactly my point, I hoped to achieve a sense of irony stating why not just disable defences, but apparently that was a vain effort.

Quote:
The real problem here is once again that the game is badly designed, and yes, that renders defense fairly worthles. In old Planetarion you had the same issue with multiple waves of 1 class hitting a planet, but you were able to use the defense fleets much more efficient by having them defend up to twice the time a fleet could attack.
Yes, agreed here. The ship statistics do have an impact on the ability to defend too, though. It can be made hard or harder, currently it looks like having been made hardest.

Quote:
And what is wrong with being able to do well without having a huge support? Mind new, most new players looking at the game won't get a chance in a decent team so they simply have to try it on their own. PA's community is too hostile to newbies most of the time, because everyone is shit-scared that it's just a fake-nick trying to gather intel. Again, it might be that the required balance hasn't been achieved yet.
Genuinely, I think the game currently rewards the XP style of play too much. The rankings at the end of the round will then again tell a lot. I guess a lot of this comes down to game mechanics too. The whole alliance scheme has blown itself out of proportion since the whole hardcoded limits setup was introduced (and frankly, it has blown itself out of proportion too).



Quote:
Of course we should not forget that round 16 had a totally different setup (with a far more rewarding xp formula and a broken bash limit that protected high-score planets). And if an alliance wants to consist of xp whores only, there is again nothing wrong with it, unless you manage to point me to the section of the manual where it says that "you have to send defense fleets and do galaxy raids if you want to sign up an alliance ingame". So far, alliances are just a group of individuals which share something, be it playing style, real life friendships or wives; and it's good that alliances are not restricted to anything else.
Yes. Round 16 had a totally different formulae, I'm not familiar with it so I won't start arguing about it. And obviously, the manual doesn't say such things. It doesn't say "you have to sign up" either.


Quote:
So, there are 42 top 100 value planets in the top 100 score ranking. That's quite ok. Especially when you consider that at the moment it is only 200k score difference between #150 and #60 in the universe.
The thing is, even several "value" planets amass vast amounts of XP while on it, which to me looks of more impact on XP this round. In compared to rounds of lately (19, 18, 17), I don't remember seeing such rise of XP planets. And by this, I'd predict there will be major XP player presense in top100 after the round is done, too.



Quote:
All this is mainly due to the small universe and the tendency of everyone to initiate less and less roids at the beginning of each round.
And the rounds are getting shorter and shorter.

Quote:
Good targets become less and less available from round to round, and personally I think we're long past a point where something has to be done majorly revamped. And that doesn't mean the introduction of a new race. I am certain that next rounds changelog will determine how many people will actually be willed to sign up again. Right now it's throwing away money.
Here I totally agree.

Quote:
To summarize my post:
I agree with a lot of things you said about how the current game is, I just disagree on blaming xp for the problems the game has. XP is problematic because the rest of the game mechanics fail, which is hugely related to the shrinking playerbase, which again is related to the boredom of each round.
I just feel the current XP system underpins the failures of the current game mechanics.
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Unread 25 Feb 2007, 19:47   #14
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Re: Mid round Review

i'd like to thank paisley and appocomaster for their work on these stats
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Unread 25 Feb 2007, 19:48   #15
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Re: Mid round Review

I dont like the way we got stealing at the moment.
The last rounds i have been able to have fun by doing nice fakes, stealing the right ships to "build" up a nice and useful fleet to attack and defend with. But this round its all about roids, roids and roids. Without having ally-backup and loosing my defships all the time cause of attacker landing no matter what im open for nearly everything all the time..... and keeping roids this ways is kinda hard :-)

Give me back old stealing so im not that much dependend on holding roids to build-up fleet :-)

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Unread 25 Feb 2007, 20:44   #16
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Re: Mid round Review

As a person who has attacked 4 times this round and only defend: i think the shipstats are ok.

But i would rather have them fix covert ops and remove 100% security.
nothing is 100% secure.
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Unread 25 Feb 2007, 22:16   #17
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Re: Mid round Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
All this is mainly due to the small universe and the tendency of everyone to initiate less and less roids at the beginning of each round. Good targets become less and less available from round to round, and personally I think we're long past a point where something has to be done majorly revamped. And that doesn't mean the introduction of a new race. I am certain that next rounds changelog will determine how many people will actually be willed to sign up again. Right now it's throwing away money.
You're precisely right about the initiating. Only a handfull of people initiate to 200 roids, when you used to initiate much higher.

Therefore we need to bring back quests. They were responsible for a (huge) roidflow into the game and made the game easy to get into. Explain the basic steps to every playing player and push them in the right direction. Most importantly, it got the fun started early, not 72 hours after the creation of your planet. But this is probably a subject for a different thread.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 12:05   #18
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Re: Mid round Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAsta_MArk
You keep talking of XP like its evil and shouldnt be here, but then i suppose your a old player of PA.
A rather biased reveiw of the round.
Whats wrong with being a veteran PA player? Does that make the opinions they have less valid? Your way of discussing things is rather childish, just shout some stuff and categorize people and mark them as stupid or idiot.

Im a veteran myself, and played from r3. I do not like to compare old style and new style Planetarion, since they are basicly different games.

I am not against XP because i am a veteran, but because i think it is simply bad. I will explain why:

I always played value based, and when i was active, i found it to be fun, even when XP ruled the world. Last havoc and SGs, i decided to go for XP, and solely built Leviathians. I rocked ! I only needed to be active like 5% of the time i wud be when i'd play for value, i didnt care for defense much, nor did i need an alliance. I ended up #2-#10 easily every time, without ever having one single defense fleet, and always 3 fleeting.

In the XP system, you dont need anyone to perform reasonably to excellent. YOu dont need mates, friends, alliances, galaxies, nothing.

While this may appeal to newbies that know noone, in the end its just a boring thing.

So, while the IDEA of XP was sound when it was invented, the actual way it worked out had NOTHING to do with the original idea. Why keep around a thnig that didnt work?
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 17:21   #19
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Re: Mid round Review

i agree with remy 100%
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 19:33   #20
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Re: Mid round Review

well the present round is shit and the 7 weeks it last doesnt help the value players

is that ok with the rest of the paying costumers?
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 23:06   #21
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Re: Mid round Review

xp is shit and should be removed. Though it was ok in r13 from what I recall... was xp even about then? YOU'RE TURNING PA INTO A MOCKERY PA TEAM!

[/huge edit - how the hell did I end up on the strategic forums? didn't even know the thing existed]

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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 23:48   #22
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Re: Mid round Review

I'm not sure the stats help, to be honest. If we go back to ziks that actually gain ships, we'll have a bigger shift toward value play because when allowed to flourish, a good value player should win every time. XP should be able to get you a top planet, but value should have some kind of edge over it. It obviously doesn't this round.

Add on the fact I think these are a particularly bad set of stats which encourage the use of one killer roiding combination unless you are Etd or Zik and stole one and hell to the rest in many cases and this is why we're facing such a massive fixation on XP.
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Unread 1 Mar 2007, 02:00   #23
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Re: Mid round Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newt
xp is shit and should be removed. Though it was ok in r13 from what I recall... was xp even about then? YOU'RE TURNING PA INTO A MOCKERY PA TEAM!

[/huge edit - how the hell did I end up on the strategic forums? didn't even know the thing existed]
xp has always been reasonably good, jer did well with it r11, sid comparatively so 10.5 if I remember right. r13 on the other hand lacked a non-zik/xan in the top 20 planets

I'd still heart jester for good measure but I think he stopped reading the forums.
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Unread 1 Mar 2007, 22:56   #24
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Re: Mid round Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome
i'd like to thank paisley and appocomaster for their work on these stats
hence paisley quit in the first week and hasnt been seen since
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Unread 2 Mar 2007, 03:25   #25
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Re: Mid round Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
xp has always been reasonably good, jer did well with it r11, sid comparatively so 10.5 if I remember right. r13 on the other hand lacked a non-zik/xan in the top 20 planets

I'd still heart jester for good measure but I think he stopped reading the forums.
no i think round 13 a zik won it was cath/terran who were worts races
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Unread 2 Mar 2007, 04:13   #26
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Re: Mid round Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinoa
no i think round 13 a zik won it was cath/terran who were worts races
Thanks for repeating what I said referenced with a bizzare "no" for some reason.
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Unread 15 Mar 2007, 10:47   #27
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Re: Mid round Review

All those that don't think etd have there disadvantages should burn in hell!

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